Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

If I were a Hillary Clinton supporter right now, I'd be extremely depressed.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 09:44 PM
Original message
If I were a Hillary Clinton supporter right now, I'd be extremely depressed.
Edited on Tue Apr-22-08 10:38 PM by Bread and Circus
Pennsylvania was her last hope and she had to win it big. Like 20+ points big.

She didn't.

From my side of the table, this is a huge night for Obama. Normally, even little losses get me a little blue but right now I'm more confident than ever Obama is going to win the nomination. Like other astute people have pointed out here, Hillary was better off yesterday than today. She has the same ground to gain with less racetrack to run on. Time has ran out for her. In fact, her last real chance of turning this around was Wisconsin.

Obama will win NC handily and it will be tight in Indiana. This means that in two weeks, Clinton is going to be in a more impossible place and even the idiot pundits on the TV channels like CNN will have to come to their senses and recognize the power of basic math.

What's aweful about all of this is that the whole canard about Obama "failing to seal the deal" is really more appropriately applied to Hillary. How in the hell with all her money, inevitability, establishment support, and a built in constituency that makes up for more than half the Democratic electorate did she ever get to this place? She has been outcampaigned and outmaneuvered from day one. She failed to "seal the deal" when her arrogant attitude and arrogant assholes (Bill Clinton, Mark Penn, Ickes, Wolfson, et al) helped her lose Iowa. She failed to "seal the deal" when she essentially tied Obama on Super Tuesday. She failed to "seal the deal" when she lost over 10 straight important contests after Super Tuesday. She failed to "seal the deal" when she ran her campaign into the ground and into debt. She failed to "seal the deal" when he had to stealthily take $5 million out of her pocket and into her campaign just to keep it alive.

Furthermore, it is 100% certain by any reasonable viewer that Bill Clinton and the gang have been race baiting all along. That doesn't make them racist, but it does reveal how cheap and shitty they can be. At least 92% of Black Dems know this and despite having put white Democrat after white Democrat in office they weren't about to let them get away with the abuse, not this time. To say the Obama camp "played the race card" is to insult the intelligence of us all, especially the core Dem demographic of African Americans. It's this aspect of the campaign that is unforgiveable in my view.

At this point the Hillary Campaign is a Republican campaign in spirit and in method. It's an absolute disgrace. If it was anyone other than a woman married to an ex-President named Clinton, that person would be shunned and drummed out of the party by now. Take Lieberman, for instance. Good riddance.

It's true that "on paper" Hillary and Barack are very similar. That's the crime of it all. At one point long ago, the goals were the same, to make America better. With Hillary "annihilating" Iran and rebuking the activist base (the same activist folks that stand for real change and have poured hundreds of millions of dollars into Democratic coffers), I'm not so sure the goals are the same any more.

This all would have been 100% better had both candidates ran a clean, uplifting campaign. However, the Clintons have dragged Obama down in the muck with them. In order to "prove he's tough," he's in part taken the bait. The kitchen sink came out for OH and TX after Hillary's surprising Wisconsin loss, and unfortunately it wasn't only Obama that got damaged. The Democratic party got hit and got hit hard. Since then, it's nearly torn itself in two and McCain is somehow smelling like a rose even though he's married to the shitty policies of the Republican power brokers.

It's extremely likely Hillary Clinton will not be able to win this at all, even if she "goes nuclear" which I'm sure she will be tempted to do. Even if she somehow stole it, a lot of people are not going to follow her with their hearts or their dollars. The historic "turnout" that we've seen throughout this season is likely to vanish in the same smoke as the legitimacy of her win.

On the other hand, I'm not sure Obama will fare better. Clinton has "done her thing" and rode Obama hard. In some ways she has done him a favor, trial by fire and all that. However, the longer this goes on the more we are all hardened in our positions. Despite the "real world" protestations that people still like both candidates, I can't actually say that I know anyone who holds this view. This is classic entrenchment psychology and the longer we work at odds, the more likely we are to become more distant and diecast. At some point we will have a "presumptive" nominee and most Dems will be on the same team. But after the long hard slog to the convention, as McAuliffe promises to take us, will there be enough time to rebuild? Will the Blacks forgive Hillary for what she has allowed to be done in her name? Will women forgive Obama for robbing them of the possibility of seeing one of their own in the White House before they die? Will true liberals and progressives forgive Hillary for marginalizing them just like the Republicans do? Will the "bread, guns, and butter" white Dems forgive Obama for all the "Un-American" things the Republicans and Hillary infer that he stands for? And will the low information voters of all persuasions just say "fuck it, I'm going with the old crusty white guy like I always have" because they got sick of how ugly the Democratic race became after Penn and Wolfson decided to make it so?

Congratulations on the win in Pennsylvania, but if I were you I'd be depressed. She's worse off than yesterday and we are all worse off than where we were six weeks ago.

On Edit:

It looks like the NY Times wholeheartedly agrees with me per this editorial. If I hadn't written this post before I read the editorial, you could rightly accuse me of plagiarizing their ideas:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/opinion/23wed1.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

April 23, 2008
Editorial
The Low Road to Victory
The Pennsylvania campaign, which produced yet another inconclusive result on Tuesday, was even meaner, more vacuous, more desperate, and more filled with pandering than the mean, vacuous, desperate, pander-filled contests that preceded it.

Voters are getting tired of it; it is demeaning the political process; and it does not work. It is past time for Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton to acknowledge that the negativity, for which she is mostly responsible, does nothing but harm to her, her opponent, her party and the 2008 election.

If nothing else, self interest should push her in that direction. Mrs. Clinton did not get the big win in Pennsylvania that she needed to challenge the calculus of the Democratic race. It is true that Senator Barack Obama outspent her 2-to-1. But Mrs. Clinton and her advisers should mainly blame themselves, because, as the political operatives say, they went heavily negative and ended up squandering a good part of what was once a 20-point lead.

On the eve of this crucial primary, Mrs. Clinton became the first Democratic candidate to wave the bloody shirt of 9/11. A Clinton television ad — torn right from Karl Rove’s playbook...


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
southern_belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kid a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. did your texting teen just grab the keyboard? your maturity is showing!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. Good thing you're not me then
'Cos I'm jazzed!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. If "jazzed" means "poor at math" ... or "can't see the writing on the wall".... then, ok....
...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Nahhhh
it means I'm in a good mood.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. I heard she had to win by 20, 12, double digits, high double digits, 8 , 6, can we make up our minds
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. That's what a moving goalpost looks like
She won PA and lost the nomination. It's the final nail.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. who keeps moving the posts?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Hillary's campaign, Hillary's supporters and the media.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I don't think this is entirely true, Obama supporters are saying high double digits,msm is
saying 12 or higher, Clinton supporters are saying 6-8, so it's every bodies wishful thinking IMO
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Obama doesn't need to move any posts
So don't point the fingers at us. He's running out the clock even if you guys can't see it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. She had to win in a blowout, she didn't. And you know it. And you know...
there's no way in hell she going to be able to win like she has to from here on out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
6. nah, they are still in stages 1 and 2
1. Denial: "It can't be happening."
2. Anger: "Why me? It's not fair."
3. Bargaining: "Just let me live to see my children graduate."
4. Depression: "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"
5. Acceptance: "It's going to be OK."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
8. Maybe you should put the time and energy into working for a candidate.
Edited on Tue Apr-22-08 09:49 PM by onehandle
This is just a little message board that only we see.

That's a lotta words.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Medusa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
9. And what do the American people get?
Another two weeks of Little Annie Hillary threatening to blast countries like Iran off the map. Oh joy. :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
la la Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
11. Actually,
I'm feeling pretty good right now---especially since I decided not to continue reading that looooooooooong post!

:party:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. Yes, god forbid we use words on a discussion board...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
14. She's fininshed. In any real political sense, tonight was her end....
...after her "big" Little Tuesday win - which really wasn't that big when the smoke settled - her base was gung-ho, and she owed it to them to take it through Pennsylvania. She had to win by a huge margin in Pennsylvania. She didn't. She probably knew as much. But she owed it to her base to make one last stand for appearances, with all the money they had invested in her. It's over.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
19. This is why you're in medicine, not in politics
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Well, normally you are on ignore but here's a wave!
:hi:

And if Hillary were in medicine, she'd have flunked her boards and been ushered out of town if her "campaign skills" are any indication of what kind of doctor she would be.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Well, you're not on ignore
because I think it's absurdly juvenile, but regardless, what you're missing here is that campaigns in this country, and that includes primary fights, have never been dignified and uplifting. From the taunts about Grover Cleveland's illegitimate child to Bush push polling about McCain's "brown" child, politics in this country is a knock down, drag out sport. The candidates who have played the campaign like Obama is doing, Stevenson, Dukakis, Bill Bradley, to name just a few, have uniformly ended up losing their bids. I don't know how this is going to play out and neither do you. But Hillary Clinton supporters have every reason to be pleased with the resoluteness and indefatigable spirit of their candidate. The media monkeys, who have been against her en masse from the start, set the bar at double digits for PA to be a "game changer." She'll end up with a nine or ten point win. Of course, they'll reset the bar immediately, because they want her to lose. But she doesn't listen to political talking heads. She listens to her own political instincts. And tonight, those instincts are serving her very well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
22. Bump for the NY Times Op Ed article that whole heartedly confirms my comments.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GetTheRightVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
24. kicking it up to the top, way up high ....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ORDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
25. She'll lose NC, so it really was the last "big" state. Time's running out for her. nt
:nopity:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
26. One last bump before this is archived in my journal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SeaLyons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
27. Spin, Spin, Spin
Hillary thumped Obama in PA. She's on her way. Deal with it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BigDDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
28. If I were an Obama supporter and my candidate outspent
his opponent 3 to 1, campaigned for 6 weeks and still lost by double digits I'd be extremely depressed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 23rd 2024, 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC