Why are the usual Obama supporters foaming at the

[cboy4]

mouth after another large state victory for Hillary Clinton?

(I think PA is the largest state since she won Texas).

You guys are very inconsistent with the way you behave about this race, and the type of act you put on, depending on the situation.

Remember how you've been talking about how Obama has the nomination locked up, and there's not a thing in the world to worry about?

You've called for Hillary to drop out, and you've even implied that Obama doesn't need Hillary supporters to beat McCain in the GE. You've threatened they'll be tombstoned, and said they might as well just join the Republicans.

Right? You believe Obama, if he's the nominee, will cakewalk to the White House.

My, my, my.

I would be the last person in the world to get any satisfaction out of what happened in Pennsylvania as you know.

I'm far more interested in learning what the true feelings are of the notoriously, ummm, "enthusiastic" Obama supporters here at General Discussion: Primaries.

You say your candidate has it in the bag, but your postings tonight indicate a desperate and frightened group of people.

It's shocking!

What a wild turn of events.

[question everything]

1. I know. Obama still ahead so why can't they be gracious

and accept this defeat and move on? No doubt, they will win big in NC, so why the sour grapes?

[Cant trust em]

7. because losing a contest always stinks

there were a bunch of congratulatory posts up earlier.

[digidigido]

37. Obama supporters are gracious in defeat, too bad Hillary supporters can't be gracious in victory

[JoFerret]

62. sore winners.

as always

[Guaranteed]

2. Your radar is way off.

Numbers are very comforting. And Clinton can't win.

It's a fact. 8-9%, not even close. She won, and it's still over.

[Maddy McCall]

3. I don't know why they get so pissy....

if they really think that "Obama didn't lose tonight."

That's their new denial meme, I guess.

Anyway, good post. K/R

[cliffordu]

15. Too bad about all that pissy MATH....

'an inconvenient truth..." indeed.

[JTFrog]

55. No denying that Hillary has won the biggest state of all.

[DerekJ]

4. She lost Texas

[Justitia]

16. They consistently deny reality. I have another one telling me she DIDN'T vote for war. Deluded.

[SoCalDem]

17. yep.. but the media rarely mentions that.. The freepers who voted for her in the AM

were not dedicated enough for part 2.. the important part

but Rush's pals put her over the top enough in Ohio for her to claim that one.. the clinker? they will be voting for McCain in Nov..

[Mr. Mule]

60. CAUCUS SYSTEM IS FLAWED

It really pisses me off when people say Hillary supporters weren't dedicated enough to participate in the Texas caucus. I'm a shift worker at a hospital and had to jump through all kinds of hoops just to be there. I had to trade days off and work a double to get that evening off. Don't tell me I'm not "dedicated enough".

The reality is the caucus worked immensely to Obama's favor. If you're a college student or an affluent college-educated person, you're not as burdened with time constraints as the typical working-class person might be. Imagine the working mother of three trying to juggle her job and her children's school work, baseball games, and putting a meal on the table. That describes my sister to a T. She was just happy there was early voting so she could cast her vote. Does that mean she wasn't "dedicated enough". I drove three elderly voters to the polls on the day of the primary. Each one told me they wanted to go to the caucus, but had no way to get there. Unfortunately, none of them were in my precinct, so I couldn't help. It truly broke my heart.

The media mistakenly called the Texas voting system the "Texas Two-Step" The reality is it's a four-step process. The night of the caucus, my precinct went 80-75 Obama/Clinton. The 19 delegates were split 10-9. Sounds close, doesn't it? Sadly, some of the precinct captains (Obama supporters) told many people they could leave after they signed in. That left us in a bind when it came to allocating delegates for the county convention. There were only twenty or so people left and we had to fill 18 positions including alternates. I agreed to be an alternate, fully aware I most likely wouldn't be able to make it to the county convention. Sure enough, I had to work that day and couldn't work out any deals to get off. My partner went, but he said it was big mess. Only about half our delegates showed up, so you can guess how the rest of day went. Obama got a majority of the delegates, which still have to be confirmed at the state convention.

Which brings me to my conclusion -- the caucus system is flawed. It gives more power to a specific demographic and is fundamentally unfair. Obama played by the rules, but that doesn't mean the outcome reflected the wishes of the Texas voters. Tell that to the working mother or elderly vet who didn't have the ways or means to do anything other than cast their vote.

[redqueen]

71. It worked in BILL's favor when he campaigned here... didn't bother them then. (nt)

[cboy4]

19. Derek, I know you wish more than life itself that Hillary

lost Texas, but more Texans did in fact vote for her.

Oh, I found this for you Derek .. from tonight's Associated Press story:

Her victory also gave Clinton a strong record in the big states as she attempts to persuade convention superdelegates to look past Obama's delegate advantage and his lead in the popular vote in picking a nominee. She had previously won primaries in Texas, California, Ohio and her home state of New York, while Obama won his home state of Illinois.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080423/ap_on_el_pr/primary_rdp_46

[Usrename]

41. Texas went 99-94 for Obama.

He won Texas.

[cboy4]

46. No, Hillary won.....by six figures in fact.

CLINTON: 1,459,814
OBAMA : 1,358,785


1,459,814 take away 1,358,785 is 101,029

Hillary won by 101,000 votes, or 51% to 47%

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#val=TX


How come you can't figure that out Derek?

Did you read the Associated Press article? It also mentioned the Texas win.

[guyanakoolaid]

50. So because the AP and Yahoo don't know how to report reality, we are to dismiss reality?

While Clinton and her supporters love making up rules as they go along, and the media loves pretending she still has a chance, unfortunately they cannot change the rules of math which dictate 99 is bigger than 94.

:dunce:

[cboy4]

51. Explain to all of us how more Texans cast votes for

Obama, guyanakoolaid.

All of the records indicate Hillary received more than 101,000 more votes.

:dunce:

[guyanakoolaid]

53. I'm not going to explain caucuses to you, or defend their use.

Or any of the other rules of these elections. They are simply the rules agreed by Clinton and Obama to before the start of the season.

According to the rules, Obama has 99 delegates from Texas, Clinton 94. Spin that fact however you want.

[Usrename]

61. No, she didn't win Texas. Five less delegates is not a win.

You should take a look at the party rules. Obama won more delegates than she did in Texas.

I guess that's why she's still in this race. She's convinced her followers that losing is actually winning. Up is down.

Sounds a lot like Dumbya revisited.

[SoCalDem]

63. P o p u l a r .... v o t e ...d o e s... NOT ...c o u n t ... in primaries/caucuses

unless you are HRC and planning to pull a George Bush & go whining to change the rules so she can win..

one reason I can see for WHY popular vote is not counted is precisely what happened in Texas & Ohio & PA and from here on out... The Rush Limbaugh Factor..

Delegates chosen are almost always going to be party-faithful, whereas any BODY with ID who has changed their registration may show up and vote as a spoiler vote..... so even when there are going to be mischief makers in the total number that will determine delegates, they will be vastly diluted when mixed in...but it's patently unfair to use popular vote as the main (ore even secondary) count..

There's a reason why rules are laid out BEFORE any races are run..

You do not disqualify a runner after he/she has run their marathon, because they did not smile during the race, or hold their legs in a graceful manner as they ran.. There are specific rules for different sports, just as there are specific rules for political races.. a big smile and elegant leg placement may be necessary in figure skating, but not so much in running marathons..

Our media is responsible for so much of the strife, because they have 24 hours a day to fill, and have turned politics into a blood-sport, made-for-tv, and since democrats chose to NOT have a winner take all system, it's given them a multitude of way to "analyze" every aspect of every race..

In days gone by, we would have found out who won what state by haring about it on the national news..maybe.. or we might have read about it on page b-5 in the newspaper.

But in the end, facts are still facts..

Primaries/caucuses are about the delegates..not the popular vote.. some states don't even release all the numbers for their caucuses.. so technically, HRC "won" the popular (non-counting) in Texas and in New Mexico, BUT Obama won MORE delegates from each of those two states..

I'm no Pollyanna, and I am sure that behind the scenes, there is some Herculean arm-twisting and back-stabbing going on between the Clintons & the undeclared SDs, and in the end, who knows what will happen..but I DO know this.. Most party elders will try and do what's in the best interest of the party..not just HRC..

and so we wait.

[BzaDem]

22. Nope, we just have the definition of winning that the media has: the one who got more people to vote

for them. We don't take into account people who voted twice (the entire caucus). Of course, you can, but your definition of winning has a small audience.

[Usrename]

42. You should try reading the party rules.

I know you probably think they don't apply in this contest, but it's the delegates that will decide this.

[MonkeyFunk]

75. She won the Texas primary

and more Texas voters supported her than obama.

[TwilightGardener]

5. He's got it locked up, barring anything unforseen. It's all over but the cryin'.

The SD's are going to need a real, REAL good reason to snatch the nomination away from him, and they most likely won't have it. "Electability" (read: being black) is not going to cut it as a good reason.

[Cant trust em]

6. mixed results tonight for each camp

certainly it's good for Clinton to get a win, but right now CNN is estimating that she netted 6 delegates. Hardly enough to catapult her into a lead.

From the Obama front, it's a positive that even after being down 20 points he was still able to knock it down to 10. But a pattern is emerging that could damage him in the GE.

THere is so much to analyze now it must be CNN's wet dream. They've got us glued in for two more weeks.

[FrenchieCat]

8. Read the New York Times Editorial.

They are about to take back their endorsement, i.e., the article is speaking to the Superdelegates.

[bhikkhu]

9. As an enthusiastic Obama supporter, I am relaxed.

It has been a difficult few weeks of often trivial angst, and I am very glad it is done.

Congrats to Hillary on a well-earned win. And I think it may play out as a very beneficial thing for the party, when the dust settles, as it is not nearly the win that was needed to move things away from the direction they are headed, but allows for the good feelings necessary towards unifying the party. Hillary's victory speech was well done.

[melody]

10. All you people are doing ... ALL you are doing ... is helping McCain

That's why we're foaming at the mouth. Why not be honest about it and just go sign on as volunteers for his campaign?

[ruggerson]

21. Because our candidate just won yet another primary decisively

[Zhade]

26. Yeah, minus the +20 points she had weeks ago, LOL!

She's still not going to be the nom. Will you leave DU when he is?

[ruggerson]

32. I kind of like Obama

I've always planned on voting for him if he's the nominee.

You're the asshole, not Barack Obama.

[melody]

56. 9% when she was ahead by 25% a couple of weeks ago? LMAO!

Look, the nominating process is over. All you people are doing is hurting the party.

But cults being what they are, I don't expect to be able to reason with the most starry-eyed Clinton
supporters.

[BzaDem]

24. All you are doing is helping McCain by supporting an inexperienced candidate who was a state senator

just 4 years ago. And happens to be the most swiftboatable candidate we might ever nominate.

[melody]

54. He actually has more experience than Hillary Clinton.

My husband is a high-tech aircraft plumber -- would you like to fly in a plane I had wired?

Obama at least had state senate credentials before going onto the US Senate.

Beyond which fact, he IS our nominee. My candidate was Edwards. This process is over. You're only weakening our
candidate.

We don't have to swiftboat Hillary -- she has done it to herself. She is now loathed by the majority of the Democratic
Party.

[Swamp Rat]

11. They ate baking soda?

:D

[John Q. Citizen]

12. This was Hill's last chance to stop Obama and she failed to win by a large enough margin to help her

much.

Obama is still leading substantiallly in delegates, contests won and popular vote.

I can type that without foaming at the mouth, honest.

I'm sorry your choice isn't winning at this point. Maybe after NC she will be doing better?

[Double T]

13. Simple Answer: BO can NOT WIN Big States when it is a straight up voting election.

If BO can't manipulate the Caucuses or the Open Elections, HE is doomed to defeat and therefore unelectable. Might be a case of RABID WRIGHT.

[otohara]

14. I'm Upset By Exit Polls

the numbers were high for Hill supporters who say they'll vote for McCain or not vote at all.

Talk about "bitter".

[GoldieAZ49]

18. They want Hillary to give Obama the gift of the nomination

because he cannot win it from her


Otherwise they wouldn't care

[speedoo]

20. Math. Try it some time.

[Zhade]

23. Um, she didn't win Texas. Why are you lying?

Obama won after all the results came in, so sorry to bust your delusional bubble.

[anonymous171]

25. HRC supporters, like their candidate, don't believe in Delegates.

[BzaDem]

28. Nope. Keep deluding yourself though.

Candidate who gets 100,000 more people to vote for them = winner. Candidate who gets 100,000 fewer people to vote for them = loser.

You can change the definition of winning to include 2*those who voted twice, but the only audience for your definition of winning is this board.

[Justitia]

57. So, Hillary got more delegates? Black is White? Up is Down? Self-deluded. -eom

[cboy4]

36. Awwww.

I don't blame you for being sad. :hug:


"She had previously won primaries in Texas, California, Ohio and her home state of New York, while Obama won his home state of Illinois."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080423/ap_on_el_pr/primary_rdp_46

[Justitia]

58. So, you are saying Clinton won the most TX delegates? Lying like your candidate again? -eom

[JeffR]

27. 4 short weeks ago, your candidate was up by nearly 25 point in PA

tonight she eked out a 9-point win. Kudos to her and her sincere supporters.

What a shame that you want to use the occasion to further divide the party.

I'd call you post pitiful, but honestly, you need a lot more effort before you could even hope to aspire to pitiful with this.

[BzaDem]

29. At least our candidate didn't lose. And doesn't consistently lose big swing states.

When Obama loses in November, his supporters are going to say "well he came from 50 points behind in FL, now he's only 15 behind. So it's a win."

[JeffR]

35. Mm-hmm. That's just how it'll go down.

Thanks, Kreskin.

[ruggerson]

43. Aw come on

I nominate that for a DUzy. It was funny. :)

[JeffR]

45. Appreciated.

But not much is funny here anymore. Mostly it's kinda pathetic.

[cboy4]

39. .......

:spray:

[Maven]

67. ROFL.

How sad and how true.

[cboy4]

44. How could my candidate be up by nearly 25 points when he

dropped out of the race earlier this winter?

I "only" want Obama to lose the primary.

[billyoc]

30. Beats me. Especially since she lost Texas.

And she's bankrupt. :shrug:

[pointsoflight]

31. A 10 delegate gain is WAY lower than she needed.

Hillary actually has to win a higher percentage of the remaining delegates now than was the case yesterday. She may have technically won this battle, but has LOST ground in the overall war.

[RememberWellstone]

33. California

Everyone keeps forgetting the Cali. It is big, no?

[boppers]

34. LARGE states matter.

SMALL states don't count.

Which is why Hillary can win them, and is still so far behind? Alrighty then.

[Neshanic]

38. Obamist Coping alert! Open box with number 5. Follow directions.

Inside two Xanax, The Manifesto, and a plug in Obama nightlight.

Take Xanax, read chapter 72 "Dream Constructs and Regionality" and plug in nightlight.

[JackBeck]

40. Buddy, how did she win Texas?

I love ya', dude, but Obama came out ahead in Texas.

[cboy4]

47. Jack, I linked an AP story up thread.

But here ya go:



CLINTON: 1,459,814
OBAMA : 1,358,785

Hillary won by 101,000 votes, or 51% to 47%

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#val=TX

[JackBeck]

49. Mike, do you even understand the Texas primary process?

[Why Syzygy]

76. No one does. It's just one more kick in the teeth for Texans.

Hillary doesn't care who she kicks or lies about.

[BootinUp]

48. you tickle me. nt

[cboy4]

52. .....

:patriot:

**takes bow**

;)

[TragedyandHope]

59. Well, you don't speak for me

or any of my posts. I congratulate Hillary on her victory and I congratulate Barack on doing an excellent job of narrowing the gap and holding the line in a "Clinton stronghold."

[Why Syzygy]

64. Well, she didn't win TEXAS. Only the ignorant still misstate that.

[mbperrin]

69. She got 101,000 more popular votes in Texas.

That's a fact.

Now the Obama folks have to make up their minds: are popular votes good or not? Because I keep hearing how he's winning the popular vote. They'll have to make up their minds: are the rules good or not? Because the rules say we still have many primaries/caucuses to go, and they keep calling for HRC to drop out and end the process. They'll have to make up their minds: is their candidate locked in or not? Cause if he is, he can stop running in any more and simply start in on McCain.

That's a lot of deciding.

I'm a Texas native, and I voted for the first time in 1972. I have voted a straight ticket for the Democratic Party in every election, as my dad and mom did and my grandparents as well.

So I don't appreciate being called ignorant, and I'll vote another straight ticket come November, whatever the results. Anyone who can't say the same needs to fess up that they are not party members and really need to quit pretending to be.

And quit the spin, goddammit! HRC won the popular vote in Texas and Obama won 4 more delegates. Say it out loud. That's all there is to it.

[Why Syzygy]

72. I never pretended to be

a Democrat. My first vote was in 1972 also, and to my dismay, it wasn't for the D. I was uninformed and voted along my family's party lines. They stuck with the GOP, I didn't. But I'm not a joiner. I don't *owe* any of them.

I won't vote for McCain, but I won't vote for Hillary either. I see the same in both instances. And, yeah, you won't see me around DU, so don't sweat it.

Texas native here too. Wake up and smell the cow pie.


Hillary Clinton is no longer electable in a general election.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dylan-loewe/hillarys-new-inevitabilit_b_98145.html

edit: Neither party will be successful ignoring Independents. We are a demographic unto ourselves.

[IndianaJones]

65. they're like the boxers that smile when they get tagged by a good shot. nt.

[shadowknows69]

66. Um, she didn't win Texas

But you knew that

[Indenturedebtor]

68. We're pissed that it's not over yet

Even though... It is OVER. She needs to bow out and accept the MATH.

[mbperrin]

70. Yes, too much voting and too much democracy are real

problems. We need to dump off the rest of the states along with Michigan and Florida and anoint a nominee with the powers that be.

Or not.

Record turnouts and high media interest are good things, not bad.

If Obama really has it locked up, all he has to do is quit running in primaries and concentrate on McCain, right? In fact, if he really has it locked up, then he's sorta stupid for continuing to run, isn't he?

On the other hand, trying to intimidate someone into quitting to get an easier win is not exactly a pristine tactic, is it?

But for some reason, the Daley Chicago machine is never mentioned with Obama's name, though that is what got him in office from the beginning.

So which is he? Stupid for continuing a won race or just wanting to change the rules by ending it all now?

[Milo_Bloom]

73. Events haven't changed.

Obama is still the nominee.. he is just now going to have less money to fight McCain, which is a shame.

[truebrit71]

74. Um..oneof your guys, Carville said it best...winning a state you are supposed to win does you no..

...good at all...

She was SUPPOSED to win by 25+ points, but only won it by 9....

I am more relaxed this morning than I have been in quite a while...

Two more weeks left and she will be done..

[Vinca]

77. You know who was foaming at the mouth today? Joe Scarborough.

He was nearly orgasmic talking about Hillary's win. She might have upset some of us Obama supporters, but she made a whole lot of Republicans happier than Larry Craig in a men's room.