OK, just to make it clear re: Dean/Clark

[eileen from OH]

I like both. In fact, most people I know in real life like 'em both. I support, donate, and volunteer for Dean, but that doesn't mean I would die if Clark were nominated. In fact, I'd cheerfully get out my pom-poms and do what I could to help him win.

HOWEVER, the reason I support Dean has nada, nothing, zero, zeroid, zip, to do with the possiblility that Clark would be his VP. I would look at the pros and cons, just as I would with Graham, or Zinni, or Edwards, or any of the other bahgillions that have been floated as possibilities.

Believe it or not, I have not based any of my Dean support on the wondrous possibilities presented by Clark joining the ticket. Many Dean supporters do not even WANT this. Yes, yes, I know, that kind of thinking is right up there with raining frogs and cats mating with dogs, but it's true.

So if y'all wanta go on about Clark denying/not denying he's a VP possibility on the Dean ticket, just have fun, okay.

Just wanna let you know that, at least for me, this is the epitome of a non-issue.

eileen from OH

[MrSoundAndVision]

1. Yeah when Kucinich is President

Dean can be ambassador to Yale, and Clark can be the former head of NATO. Kucinich for President -> http://www.kucinich.us

[eileen from OH]

4. Well, gee,

that was certainly constructive.

Y'know, I realize that Kucinich has got some real dedicated supporters out there and that's cool. But just as all threads about the primary in general are not about Dean or Clark, some actually are. Feel free to start one about Dennis if you want. But since this one had absolutely nothing to do with him, don't quite see your purpose for posting.

eileen from OH

[Dookus]

6. I like Kucinich... really I do

If I didn't disagree with him vehemently on two or three issues, I'd be behind him.

But "when Kucinich is President" I'll be too worried about the monkeys flying out of my ass to worry about Dean and Clark's positions.

[scubadude]

2. Do you think it's beyond the realm of possibility that...

the republicans are supporting Dean financially, like they did Nader?

This is how I see the evil money grubbers destroying our system.

Ron

[eileen from OH]

3. I don't know that they did support Nader

Do you have any proof of this? Not being snarky, really, but I've never seen anything resembling documentation regarding this.

Also, my experience with Republicans is that, while they sure-as-shit would go and vote in a Dem primary if they could, when it comes to ponying up cash-money they talk a good game, but don't really do it. Hell, they don't even wanna pay taxes, fer pete's sake, so I can't see 'em plunking down money, even in an attempt to derail the Dems.

So, if you have something to cite to the contrary, would like to see it.


eileen from OH

[necso]

5. Oh yeah, they are listing it on the repug party site.

Please, it is covert and in small amounts (under the radar --- doesn't hurt --- times a zillion). These are people for whom secrecy is commandment number one.... and you expect a link.

H-ll, old "W" got specific warnings about 9/11 and we are never to hear about it. (Ashcroft stopped taking commercial flights in June --- check it out.) You expect data on this.... yea right.

Look, I like Dean. He is courageous and outspoken. He is also going to lose.

A Democrat like me needs to know no more.

[Robbien]

9. What is this "A Democrat like me " and use of the name callling "repug"

Red flags all over the place. Using the phrase "He is also going to lose", another one.

Using the name calling repug demeans the user, not the target.

Is someone here trying to post posts that will be picked up and spred around the web as an example of how bad DUers are?

[necso]

12. Re: a Democrat like me .... oops.

One who actually votes the Democratic ticket religiously and without fail. ie, not some liberal who votes "green" or "spleen" or any other way.

As for repug: having voted the republican ticket for nearly 20 years (until Clinton), I am entitled to the term. I voted repug --- I was repug(nant).

As for "he is also going to lose": I picked Clinton as a winner in 91 long before he was a certainty (and joined him in the Democratic Party). I have been wrong in exactly one presidential election (Ford in 76) when party feeling overcame my judgment (it hasn't since).

The repugs (my former friends) will chew up and spit out Dean. I am willing to wager anything on this result --- against someone who will actually pay up.

As for the last insult, all I can say is KMA. When you are voting green I will be standing with the Democrats.

[Robbien]

13. Glad to have the vote. Guess we just differ in style

Using derogatory terms for our opponent gets us nowhere. They are our opponent. They are to be studied for weaknesses and attacked with our strengths. Not just written off with named calling.

Using terms such as "a democrat like me" reads as if one is not a member of the democratic party but as if one is a poser. I guess a matter of interpretation. Many here are not members of the democratic party but belong here because we believe the man squatting in the White House needs to be frog marched out.

And for the last point, this is going to be a battle. Starting out our side of the battle with the "he is also going to lose" mentality is just defeatist. ABB I say, and any of our guys can and will win.

[necso]

14. As you will.

As a former republican, I know their ways and I will never give up "derogatory terms". There are no words that can properly convey repug disregard for anything resembling ethics and their support for what is no more than blatant treason, classism and plutocracy.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and try to believe that you are unaware of the vicious, treasonous campaign that they will wage. For many of them it is re-election or prison --- to paraphrase Samuel Johnson --- this tends to concentrate the mind.

But whatever your intentions, let no one have any doubt, only our stongest candidate can possibly win.

As for being a "poser": where I come from those are "fighting words". I would, Sir, consider it an honor if......

[Robbien]

16. I am starting to like your spirit

and am reconsidering the alert I sent. Yes, the name calling of bushbots is effective but dirty, but leaves a slime that the masses are not responding to very well. I still do not feel returning that garbage will be as effective. Come on, come over to the light side, we are continuously striving for a better way and we will win. Soon our ducks should be marching in order, or there will be at least one angry voter here they have to answer to.

Our strongest candidate will emerge. In this environment how can not only the strongest survive.

[necso]

17. Ah!

I would certainly not suggest that the masses respond well to shrub bashing (dignity of the office and all that), rather I would say that we need to be "stronger" than the bushies, while respecting most niceties (more or less).

In the forum of party loyalists, however, we should not shirk from honestly portraying the enemy or the chances of our candidates.

As for my spirit, I take my inspiration from the Turkish Brigade in the Korean War --- when out of ammunition and surrounded --- they charged with the bayonet --- Chicom beware.

There is only one candidate having this kind of strength. With such feeble powers as I can muster, I will support him.

[Robbien]

18. This side is always portrayed as flower powered

pussy daisy lovers, but beware the strength under the flowered covered layer. Yes, this side frolics among the daisies, but you are a fool if you believe frolicking is the activity that occupies their total energy. While the other side is busily occupied making up derogatory names to call them, this side is googling and forging additional steel on their shields and are sharpening and strengthening their swords. These guys are fully aware of the battle ahead and of the mindset of minions who populate the foot soldier layer.

As for the Turks and your inspiration, you chose well.

I have no candidate, I am truly a ABB. If your's is the one that comes out to be the final front runner, so much the better for you.

I promised myself I would never go to the candidate bashing threads,,, but really, truly, the mods moved us. Really.

[bearfartinthewoods]

19. if everyone who uses repug or repukes is a freeper

the total number of dems here is 87.

[Robbien]

20. In their minds maybe, but no I do not believe we will descend

For the typewritten record, that is lower than many of us would like to go. Would be very surprised if I am all by my lonesome self in this.

[scubadude]

11. I see history, and fear it.

Certainly the Republicans are capable of this kind of action. If you cannot control the election, control the opponent.

As far as Ralph recieving support from them, I believe it. They learned the Ross Perot lesson and have used the knowledge well. It's too bad Ralph Nader really believed that there was no difference between parties. I am positive he knows there is a difference now.

I guess what I am trying to get at is that we must all be very careful about who we support. I believe Dean is the candidate that Republicans are looking for. If Dean wins the nomination, I hope I'm wrong....

Of course I will ultimately support any nominated Democrat, and I can't think of any one who isn't way better than Bush.

Ron

P.S. I had a much longer and more intelligently draw out post, but because I went to another window to look up a spelling, I lost it. It's just too late to come up with that kind of brainpower now. Time for bed.

[oasis]

21. Dean could be a "Denise Majette" on a national scale. Same m.o.; GOP cash

crossover voters and a "targeted" liberal Democrat opponent from the same neighborhood--in this case, John Kerry.

It is likely that, early on, the Bushistas saw that Kerry was going to be trouble for the Bushista regime and went shopping for their perfect candidate to knock him out of contention.

Remember, they used Zell Miller and other Democrats to help take Cynthia McKinney out.

[depakid]

7. See what you get for posting something honest & positive?

People go out of their way to make stupid anti-Dean remarks around here sometimes. Don't let it bug you though- they'll be singing a different tune this time next year.

[necso]

10. Yeah.

Like "All Hail the Great and Glorious Leader, his Imperial Majesty George W Bush, may He Reign Forever".

Per my other posts, "Gary Owen" also comes to mind.

[bain_sidhe]

8. I don't think the "Clark as VP" meme is aimed at you

It's aimed at undecideds leaning toward Clark who like his FP credentials, presented as an argument to vote for Dean and hope you can get Clark too. At least to me, the fact that that it's being put out there so often makes it look like an effort to an insidiously undermine Clark's support.

[Mari333]

15. Anyone But Bush

I want my stepson to come home from Iraq, and the US to get the hell out of Iraq ! I support any DEM who runs against that lying sack of shite.