They are both going to have to be on the ticket.

[PDittie]

Obama is unable to attract the blue-collar/Reagan Democrat demographic (since Iowa). This is now officially a sign of weakness and cause for concern.

Clinton simply won't get the A-A vote if she manages to succeed in knee-capping him.

I think we have reached the point where neither can win without the other. I would prefer it to be in order of the delegate count, but for the sake of unity I will accept them in either order.

Can we let the healing begin now?

[glowing]

1. Makes sense to me.. they are nearly the same on issues of Policy.

[SunsetDreams]

2. no they don't have to be....

She can't argue that point, because those blue collar voters will likely vote Dem anyway in the Fall.

[PDittie]

10. Not according to the PA exit polls

Many more of her voters say they won't vote for him than his say they won't vote for her (saw this last night on MSNBC's coverage; no link).

Blue collar/Regan Democrats have been voting Republican in presidential elections for several cycles now. If they did not vote for Gore or Kerry, why would it be safe to assume they would vote for Obama?

[CK dexter]

3. = suicide pact

[yourguide]

11. +1

[PDittie]

13. The security of

Mutually Assured Destruction, I realize.

[greguganus]

64. Yes, the M.A.D. Pack. n/t

[johnlal]

4. That would be a mistake

The fight between Obama and Clinton is part of a larger fight for the soul of the Democratic party. Neither side can give in to the other.

[PDittie]

14. Then it may be over for the party

Just MO, of course.

[RichGirl]

48. This 'so-called' fight...

has been primarily manufactured by the media...they love it...it's ratings for them, nothing more. If you only looked at what either of the candidates have said, it would be an energetic, but standard campaign where Hillary is just a little more experienced than Barack at subtle attacks. But, you add the intepretations and opinions of the KOs, and like, and it turns into the ugliest battle of our time. Fighting for the soul of the Democratic party??? Take a breath, take a walk, something...until your head clears.

[johnlal]

53. It simply amazes me

It amazes me that after all we have been through with Joe Lieberman, and people still think that Clinton's role in the DLC is a non-issue.

[demwing]

63. Thats hogwash

The two are nearly identical on policy and procedure, and what each lacks, the other carries.

I like it, but will the candidates?

[guyanakoolaid]

5. Oh, he can win without her. And he will.

She is nothing but negative baggage at this point.

[NJmaverick]

6. Obama just needs Clark

that will comfort and assure the white voters

Hillary has destroyed any chance for a spot on the ticket, by her behavior.

[babylonsister]

19. No, and I wish people would stop saying that.

In some people's minds, Clark, or Gore, equals insurmountable. Why is that? I like them both, but they aren't and wouldn't turn the tide either way. Why will Clark make everything better? I just don't see it.

[NJmaverick]

23. Jon Stewart touched on this, during his interview with Obama

People don't take to change. The Democrats are offering drastic change in that they are running a woman and a mixed race man for President. As we saw in PA, that's more change than many people can handle. Clark, being a white male, would help reduce that feeling of change. I think white voters will feel much more comfortable when they see the two of them together.

[babylonsister]

24. Oh please. Jon Stewart is a comedian. I have faith

that Obama would pick the person who would help him the most, would aid his ticket, and someone who would agree with him on key issues. I also like Jon, but he's no politician. It's moot at this point anyway, but I'm not as crazy about Clark as you appear to be.

[NJmaverick]

26. Do you really see Joh Stewart as a comedian?

He is a very intelligent man, who uses humor to make his points. You know he is one of the few interviewers that actually reads the books that his guests write. If you watch the show, you will know that's some pretty heavy subject matter.

[babylonsister]

31. Yes, he's smart. That doesn't mean he knows how to pick VPs. nt

[NJmaverick]

38. Well he didn't pick a VP, I quoted his observation about change and

people's reaction to it. What Obama needs to do is have a running mate who is a respected white male. Is that the best choice, in terms of running the Country, probably not. However it's the best choice to help ease the worries of voters who are hesitant to vote for Obama because of his racial background.

I would be saying the same thing if Hillary were winning. I would think her best choice would be a white male as well.

Beyond that, with Clark being a semi-high profile Hillary supporter, you would get a little bit of the unity ticket concept.

Plus Clark is from the south, which is always a plus (since southerners don't like to vote for northerners)

Clark's military experience would also blunt McCain's military service (in fact Clark's record is much better than McCain's)

Finally Clark is a Washington outsider, which would be in line with Obama's change theme.

[KoKo]

54. Isn't Clark one of the Military Pundit Generals whose made big bucks off consulting

for his own company? I don't think he would go over very well with some of our more Progressive leaning Dems...
:shrug:

[Eurobabe]

28. I agree with you

Wes lost me when he endorsed Hillary. Sad to say. But there are some other reasons...he is a terrible campaigner, he would do Obama no good.

[NJmaverick]

39. I offer the following reasons for picking Clark

What Obama needs to do is have a running mate who is a respected white male. Is that the best choice, in terms of running the Country, probably not. However it's the best choice to help ease the worries of voters who are hesitant to vote for Obama because of his racial background.

I would be saying the same thing if Hillary were winning. I would think her best choice would be a white male as well.

Beyond that, with Clark being a semi-high profile Hillary supporter, you would get a little bit of the unity ticket concept.

Plus Clark is from the south, which is always a plus (since southerners don't like to vote for northerners)

Clark's military experience would also blunt McCain's military service (in fact Clark's record is much better than McCain's)

Finally Clark is a Washington outsider, which would be in line with Obama's change theme

[mopinko]

47. i want gore

the veeps job could be dealing with the climate crisis. he is perfect for it on so many levels.

but please people, i beg you please, stop this shit. way back in history, the #2 guy got the veep. it was done away with after about the 5th president, i think. it is such a terrible, terrible mistake. there is no way the 2 of them can work as a team, and we have so fucking much work to do.

[Bake]

57. Gore would NEVER, I repeat NEVER take a VP slot again.

The Presidency was his for the asking. He didn't want it. He'd never take No. 2 again, and I think he has said as much.

Bake

[cd3dem]

66. Clark supports Hillary Clinton! along with a bus load of other generals

[lapfog_1]

7. Quit saying Hillary won't get the A-A vote...

there are a *HELL* of a lot more voters than just African American voters that vote for Obama.

Hillary won't get MY vote (college educated older white male).

Hillary won't get all those first time voters (college age kids).

And nothing has changed, Hillary won't be on the ticket.

[NC_Nurse]

8. Bullshit.

She is a lead weight on the boat. And Bill is worse.
No thank you.

[Labors of Hercules]

18. Amen sister!

[sybylla]

33. Agreed - Barack would have to be insane to hitch his wagon

to Hillary and Bill. Unless she can get a leash on Bill, he's nothing but a boat anchor.

Besides, all McSame would have to do is run ads showing her touting his experience over Baracks and paint them as shallow political ladder climbers only in it to win - no to stand on their principles and do the right thing.

Joining forces would have been easier in February. But now that she's thrown the kitchen sink at him, she'll only look like a desperate shill for taking the VP slot or a complete idiot for asking him to be his VP.

A joint ticket would be nothing but bad for the Democratic Party.

[Hepburn]

35. Totally agree....NO Clintons on the ticket. PERIOD. n/t

[shadowknows69]

9. Nope

Just nope.

[Marie26]

12. Makes sense

They divide the Dem. constituency neatly in half, and each one's base is very loyal to them. IMO they do both need to be on the ballot to unite the party for the general election.

[GodlessBiker]

15. He is weak with that demographic against her, not against McCain.

[calmblueocean]

16. Obama's done fine getting blue-collar voters. Hil just had a lot of institutional support in Penn.

Sometimes, having connections pays dividends, and this was one of those times. Blue collar voters are more likely to vote based on trust and loyalty, and Hillary had a large number of major Pennsylvania Democratic officials on her side this time around. It was enough to keep that core of blue-collar support from defecting to Barack in this single state, but Barack doesn't have any fundamental problem attracting "downscale" voters, as shown by big wins in Iowa, North Dakota, Minnesota, etc.. It's just another media talking point.

[babylonsister]

25. Exactly. Her institutional support doesn't help her negatives either. nt

[susankh4]

17. Yes indeed!

Been sayin' it all along.

We are well on the way to our joint ticket, and a victory in November!

[galaxy21]

20. Obama needs Hillary as his VP

It's true.


But the question is: will he kiss and make up, if it increases his chances of winning?

[susankh4]

30. If he doesn't...

he loses.

It's really that simple.

[galaxy21]

41. Yes, but does he know this?

[mmonk]

21. I won't work for the campaign if Hillary is in the presidential slot

but I could accept her in the VP slot and work for the ticket. If she's at the top of the ticket this time, I will only vote for the ticket but no monetary or physical effort support. I've spent too long fighting for restoration of democratic party principles (unless someone considers going back in time to Woodrow Wilson or something similar) which I don't think is there with a DLC controlled party.

[B Calm]

22. If Obama picks Edwards, they'll win in a landslide!!

[newmajority]

59. Edwards will make a far better attorney general than he would a VP

Vice Presidents don't take on corporations.

[IndianaJones]

27. can't support a ticket with Obama on it..in either slot. nt.

[Rob Gregory Browne]

29. There is no way to know this until the GE

"Obama is unable to attract the blue-collar/Reagan Democrat demographic (since Iowa). This is now officially a sign of weakness and cause for concern."

How many times does this have to be said? You can't judge the GE by the primaries. It's ridiculous to even try.

[Buzz Clik]

32. No way.

I've listened to her hate for far too long.

If she quits today, I'd consider it. She won't.

Screw her.

[The Stranger]

34. Never. Count me out if Hillary is anywhere near the ticket.

[stranger_with_candy]

36. I hope not

[Toucano]

37. I see the unity ticket as inevitable. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

40. Only Clinton supporter advocate for this. Let party realignment take place....

... The Democratic party will be the better for it.

[williesgirl]

42. NFW. Keep both Clintons off the ticket and we'll win in Nov. Everyone keeps forgetting

that Independents and some moderate Republicans will vote for Obama. Some of these would not change their affiliation just for a primary. rec'd

[GoesTo11]

43. He doesn't need her, but she might be able to force it.

If she commits to essentially campaign for McCain if Obama doesn't select her, and to campaign all out for Obama if he does select her, then it probably means that he would have the best chance of winning by selecting her. Sort of like JFK and LBJ's alliance of convenience. IMO would be better for the Democratic chances if she campaigned all out for Obama and he chose someone else, but if she wants this, she might get it. If so, it would be best to just make the deal and move on - or better yet, make the deal behind closed doors, continue raising money and campaigning but now just by attacking McCain and then consummating the deal at the convention.

[Milo_Bloom]

44. Clinton is toxic to the ticket.

[Life Long Dem]

45. When Hillary supporters bring this up.

They are saying two things. One is they are admitting they lost. Two is they are saying they would vote for Obama.

[nichomachus]

46. Are you out of your mind?

That is the most ludicrous suggestion I've heard. I realize you're not the first to suggest it, but it is laughable on the face of it.

Let's start with Hillary/Obama.

If you are Obama and you end up as VP, it is a perfect way for the Clinton's to marginalize you. Here you are, a candidate with an agenda and a huge following, as well as a vision for changing the direction of the country, and you get stuck in a corner counting paper clips, while Hill and Bill romp around the White House playing politics. There is no way Hill and Bill are going to allow you to have a voice, any visibility, anything. They see you as a threat to them -- much more charismatic than Hillary, less tainted than Bill. If Obama takes this job, he might as well just sign himself into Gitmo and disappear officially. And if you're Hillary, do you really want someone with Obama's charisma looking over your shoulder? No freaking way.

Next, Obama/Hillary

If you are Obama, do you want the real Mayberry Machiavellis rummaging around behind your back? Holy crap. They have an agenda. Having them both in the VP spot will keep you looking over your shoulder day and night to see where they are -- and counting the knives in the kitchen to make sure they're all where they are supposed to be -- and not in your back. Just look at the situation now with Hill and Bill. She can't keep Bill on a leash and he's working at cross purposes with her with his free-lancing on the campaign trail. Would a President Obama really want the two of them having a platform in the administration, access to the media in an official capacity, etc?

Either of these scenarios would make the intrigues of the Borgias seem like kid's play.

Heck, I'm nervous about Hillary getting in and having Bill back in the White House, roaming around with nothing to do but get into trouble. He would upstage her in an Arkansas minute. She would be consumed with trying to rein him in all the time. I don't think that psychodrama is going to be good for the country.

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

51. You've nailed it on both scenarios

"Mayberry Machiavellis " :rofl:

[nichomachus]

52. To be perfectly honest

That's not mine. Someone used it about the Bush Crime Family, but I think it's more appropriate to Hill and Bill

[AlinPA]

49. It's not possible now. She burned the bridge with the vicious ads and statements.

[Catherine Vincent]

50. Maybe that is what Clinton's goal is?

It's just that Obama and his people are being stubborn about it.

[greguganus]

55. I won't support any ticket with HillBilly on it. n/t

[Kaylee]

56. Only if they manage to lock Bill in a trunk somewhere and throw away the key. nt

[newmajority]

58. 28 years of BushClinton trickle down corporatist reverse robin hood middle class destroying bullshit

No Hillary on this ticket.

No more Bush. No more Clinton.

Not now. Not ever.

[livetohike]

61. Couldn't have said it better myself

:toast:

[redqueen]

60. That's funny.

[tokenlib]

62. No..there are better choices out there...

For geographical considerations--Hillary offers nothing. For ideological considerations--Hillary offers nothing.

Go West, young man!! Not too far west, but to Richardson to reach out to the West and Hispanics, or a master stroke of someone like Chuck Hagel. A ticket to unify the country would ease the road to November.

[uponit7771]

65. Makes sense, RayGun hated GWHB but still picked him as VP

[City Lights]

67. I have *never* voted for the veep spot on the ticket and don't intend to

start now. I vote for the top of the ticket. Period.

[NC_Nurse]

68. .

:puke:

After all the shit Hillary's thrown. I never want to see her again.