Obama: "The problem is older voters are very loyal to Senator Clinton"

[Amerigo Vespucci]

April 23, 2008

Obama: I have a problem courting seniors

Posted: 05:14 PM ET

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/23/obama-i-have-a-problem-with-seniors/

(CNN) — Barack Obama said Wednesday he has a problem appealing to senior voters.

Assessing his loss in Pennsylvania, the Illinois senator said Tuesday's primary result was not primarily due to how working class Democrats voted — a voting bloc that has long supported Clinton over Obama — then with the decisions of older voters.

"I have to say if you look at and I know my staff has talked about this: If you look at the numbers, our problem has less to do with white working class voters, the problem is, to the extent there is a problem is with older voters," Obama told reporters. "They are very loyal to sen Clinton. And I think part of that is they've got a track record of voting for not just Sen. Clinton but also her husband."

"We need to make sure on issues that are important to them — like prescription drugs or pension and retirement security — that I've got a strong track record on those issues and very specific plans to make sure that they are getting the kinds of help that they need," he also said. "And if we do that effectively, which you know we have tried to do it in all the states."

[Indenturedebtor]

1. The way I see it

It's more a question of the establishment voting for the establishment. That and the fact that every generation gets less and less racist.

[TheDoorbellRang]

53. I think your second reason is the main one

Just anecdotally, friends and family that are older than me (age 54) tend to be more racist in their attitudes, and those younger than me tend to wonder what all the fuss about skin color is about. :shrug:

[GCP]

82. Thanks a lot for smearing all Clinton supporters as racist

:eyes:

[SoonerPride]

85. Not all, but enough are. Read the exit polls. It's not a fabrication, but fact.

sorry, but some Democrats are racist and they vote for Hillary.

[Texas Hill Country]

110. is that why Barack won 92% of the black vote and hillary won 60% of the white....

HUGE race problem with whitey... HUGE.


:sarcasm:


stop with the race baiting crap. the voting patterns do not bear that out at all.

[BlooInBloo]

118. lol! I called it! Woot!

[TheDoorbellRang]

87. No. Not at all. That's not what I'm saying

I think that people about 60 and older would have a harder time voting for a black man just because of the atitudes in this country while they were young. I don't know how old you are, but I can still remember when the first commercials started on TV that had African Americans in them. People used to joke that the commercials had a "token black" in them -- it was very jarring to white America. Now I doubt if it really is noticeable to anyone if a commercial has an African American in it -- it's just not a big deal anymore. That's just one example of how much things have changed, and why he has so much more support with younger people -- they don't have the racial hangups that older people still sometimes have.

I do think the hardest demographic for Obama to win is the 60+ crowd. Nothing to do with Clinton and everything to do with early training.

[Two Americas]

92. I agree

I think younger people tend to be woefully ignorant as to "what the fuss is about" when it comes to the fight for justice and equality. "Don't worry be happy" is not a political program.

[TheDoorbellRang]

109. Not a matter of ignorance at all; it's a matter of tolerance

What I said:

"...those younger than me tend to wonder what all the fuss about skin color is about..."

Most of the people in my generation, while trying to consciously work against racism, will still say things like "my black friend is coming by."

Most of the yonger people I know would instead say "my friend is coming by." The color of their friend's skin is as irrelevant as their eye color. This to me is a sign of progress -- it doesn't equate to ignorance in any way, shape, or form.

[susankh4]

132. I agree and disagree....

Mr. Obama's uphill battle with older voters may be partly because he is black. I'm not sure how much, tho.

I do know that certain behaviours are acceptable to younger voters and not older ones. That whole thing about brushing the Hillary dandruff from his jacket..... bad move if he wants to win 60+ voters. I am only 49, and I found that to be testing my limits.... My mom was outright appalled by it. If he tries something like that with Mr. McCain, McCain will call him on it, the seniors will bolt.... and we will lose big.

If Obama wants to reach us "older" folk, he may need to stop being so willing to do the hiphop thing. It appeals, I am sure, to his younger supporters... but they are already in the bag for him.

Another problem is.... something needs to be done about this rumour that he flipped the bird to Sen. Clinton. I am not saying he *did* this. But it is spreading like wildfire via youtube. The 20 somethings think it is funny as all get out. The 50 and 60 somethings find it reprehensible for a statesman to behave in that fashion. Personally, I think it is a barrier to his reaching out across generations.

FWIW.

[tokenlib]

120. People who grew up in lily white communities...never had a relationship...

..with someone Black or Hispanic for decades tend to be as you describe. It is to a large degree ignorance. An acquaintance of mine from a majority white community, last year had to work with an African American for the first time in his life. He came away amazed at what a hard working, great person his new co-worker was--and raved about his experience.. I was almost embarrassed for my friend--little did he know he was carrying the weight of the image of all African Americans on his shoulders. I was relieved it was a good experience.

It is ignorance, but it is a reality in too many areas of the country. Strange how something so simple as just getting to know one another can change the world.

[Tellurian]

54. The only thing wrong with your theory is

The Republicans ARE the establishment. Hillary's base are the "real" Democrats!

[GoesTo11]

95. "Real" Democrats? We're all real Democrats.

Come now.

[Tellurian]

99. Hillary supporters are Moderate Democrates

called "the base".. DU is comprised of Left Leaning Democrats, Far Leftys, Progressives, so called Progressives and Liberals.

[GoesTo11]

100. She'll want those votes too

[onenote]

123. oooh oooh!! Can I play the spin game? HRC supporter disses Vermont Democrats

and Virginia Democrats.
and Mississippi Democrats
and Maryland Democrats
and Illinois Democrats
and Wisconsin Democrats.
and Louisiana Democrats

All states that voted more heavily for Obama than Clinton. Apparently, those majorities not consisting of the Democratic base. (Something that AA voters in Mississippi, Virginia, Louisiana and elsewhere would find most enlightening).

[goletian]

133. dont you mean secular progressives, billo? - nt

[Heathen57]

134. Hillary is DLC

That makes her a light weight Republican. When you look at the ideals of the DLC (anti-union,pro business,anti poor) along with Hillary's support of war, right-wing judges, aiding and abetting Bush you have something that is not close to a Democrat.

The final straw has been her behavior during the campaign. It has come straight out of the Rove/GOP playbook.

No Hillary and those who think like her are the opposite of what the Democratic party has stood for since its inception. She should just admit that she is a repub and get it over with.

[riskpeace]

90. Just look at Obama's grandmother.

Black men on the street can scare her,

[Two Americas]

93. no evidence to support either of those

Certainly, there are a lot of people who want to believe that those two statements are true.

Obama has the support of almost every liberal leader and organization, and old time Dem pols as well as more DLC members endorsing him than Clinton does. The establishment is solidly behind Obama, not Clinton.

Segregation and wage disparity and racist themes and remarks are all as prevalent, or more so, as they were 30 years ago, and there is no age group any more or les accepting of that. Not being a racist is not a matter of how one personally feels - that is a right wing re-framing of the issue. I see no evidence that younger people are less racist. I run into more racism today among young people than I did 30 years ago, and more resistance to discussing it, and much more resistance to any self-examination on the issue. It is more invisible - as another poster said, young people don't see "what the fuss is about." That is not evidence that things are better - quite to the contrary.

[GarbagemanLB]

2. PA is the second or third oldest state in the union. It is tailor made for Hillary.

[Cosmocat]

60. I posted this countless times the last few weeks ...

when Obama supporters wanted to believe that he could win in Pa ...

I have lived here my entire life, and have become increasingly active in politics, and I know in our county, who the regular party types who supported Hillary were, and they were the hard scrabble, long timers ... Older women for sure "women of a certain age" sticking together, which is not exclusive to just Hill, but most older women who run these days, and in general those who simply have good memories of the Clinton brand ...

This is exacerbated by just how horribly Buscho has driven the country into the ground ... These older voters see how much of a douche Reagen was and how amazingly Bushco has been 10 times worse, and in between was the Clinton years ... Gas prices ran VERY stable for 8 freakin years in the 1.50 range, before it doubled in a few years under Jr ...

These older voters, they have seen all of this, they have lived it, they have the perspective ..

They know the only time in the 40 years they have had a president working for them, the name was Clinton ...

[Independent-Voter]

107. Yep - old, white, and low-educated voters are her bread and butter

Anyone actually informed doesn't give her a second thought. That her base is centered around backwards Rust Belt states like Ohio, West Virgina, and Pennsylvania is telling.

[Avalux]

3. He's right. A lot of people in PA voted for Hillary because they want Bill back in office.

My uncle told me that's the reason he voted for her yesterday. He LOVES Bill and figures Hillary will do whatever Bill tells her to.

[tekisui]

10. Every Hillary supporter I've talked to, outside DU says:

You can't deny times were good under Bill.

And...

You get two-for-one, and Bill was a damn fine President.

[rox63]

19. I thought Bill was doing what Hillary told him to all those years?

Except for his "sugar on the side", of course.

[Radical Activist]

29. Most of her Iowa cuacus goers were over 65.

At least in the three caucuses I saw. The people who get online and do more research instead of basing their vote on what happened under Bill 12 years ago are mostly supporting Obama.

[BalancedGoat]

67. I agree.

As a first time Iowa caucus goer I would agree with your statement.

[MichiganVote]

4. Age has nothing to do with this.

[Nia Zuri]

5. Oh no Obama is an ageist --- Geezer=gate!!!!!!!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

8. You called it! nt

[hisownpetard]

21. Hahahhaaa!

:applause:

[Chisox08]

73. OMG Obama hates old people!

It's Geezer-gate! Quick alert Hannity, Limbaugh, O'rielly, Scarbourgh and the rest of tghe fair and balanced folks at Fox News.
:sarcasm:

[anonymous171]

6. Yep. PA was Bill's win, not Hillary.

[GoldieAZ49]

7. The Catholic vote pulled it out for her nt

[Mags]

9. Well, to hell with the older voters, write us off and see what ya got.

[Cant trust em]

14. No one's writing anyone off

"We need to make sure on issues that are important to them — like prescription drugs or pension and retirement security — that I've got a strong track record on those issues and very specific plans to make sure that they are getting the kinds of help that they need," he also said. "And if we do that effectively, which you know we have tried to do it in all the states."

There are things in his platform that are of interest to older voters. He's saying that he's got to reach out to them better.

[juajen]

30. Yeah, we prop up the world. I'm seeing a lot of agism around here

lately, especially from Obama and supporters.

[jenmito]

33. When did he "write off" older voters? He was saying older voters DO vote for Hillary because they

know and like THE CLINTONS. He never said he doesn't CARE about them or their vote or their issues. He does. And when he's the nominee, I'm sure most of them will vote for Obama rather than McCain.

His words: "We need to make sure on issues that are important to them — like prescription drugs or pension and retirement security — that I've got a strong track record on those issues and very specific plans to make sure that they are getting the kinds of help that they need," he also said. "And if we do that effectively, which you know we have tried to do it in all the states."

How's that ageism?

[Mags]

34. you're sure , well, I certainly am not sure that after putting them down,

it will be very hard to get this crowd back.

[jenmito]

41. HOW did he put them down??? Quote, please!

TIA.

[scheming daemons]

78. He didn't put them down...in fact, he did the opposite. He said that HE needs to get better at

attracting them.


Mags is just stirring shit.

[jenmito]

86. Thanks for that.

:hi:

[Bodhi BloodWave]

102. thats nothing new tho so expected(sadly enough) n/t

[Radical Activist]

89. Maybe he should question their right to vote like Hillary did for Iowa students

Or tell young voters they're naive kool aid drinkers like Rendell did. The young people are the ones who get insulted far more. So stop whining and get over it.

[democrattotheend]

114. Thank you!

Clinton's supporters have said things about Obama's young supporters that are way more insulting than what Obama said about seniors (I don't think what he said is insulting at all, frankly), and nobody has cared.

[democrattotheend]

112. How did he put them down?

He just said that seniors have a long history with the Clintons, and that he has not done a good enough job appealing to seniors. How is that a put-down?

[unc70]

50. He wrote many off when he attacked Boomers in early 2007

The "early" Boomers are now over 50. AARP had a long article this month remembering 1968! (Depressing, I know.)

Older voters are much more likely to be issue oriented. At DU, that group mostly supported Edwards and discussed issues extensively. At the peak, this group was roughly half of DU participation. After that, DU has become overwhelmingly for Obama, but with many being more-recent members. The Edwards supporters have mostly given up trying to discuss much with the Obama supporters. On a bad day, I personally find it almost the same as the old days with original spam on alt.religion.scientology.

[jenmito]

52. In other words, the OP does NOT show Obama writing off older voters. Thanks!

:hi:

[Arkana]

57. OK, I don't get it.

Bill Clinton calls young voters everywhere idiots, and we don't hear a goddamn PEEP out of you people.

Barack Obama makes an observation about the older generation--that they strongly associate Hillary Clinton with her fucking HUSBAND and that there are certain things that strongly resonate with them--and you spaz out. Calm down, read the comment objectively, and realize that in no way was this meant as an insult to any age group.

Hypocrisy at its best.

[onenote]

121. and how do you get there from what he said?

THat older voters have favored HRC over Obama is a fact. Not every older voter. But overall. Just as not every younger voter has favored Obama over Clinton but overall younger voters have preferred Obama.

So his acknowledgement of a fact can't be the issue. So please point me to what he said that constitutes "writing off" older voters?

[Cha]

11. NOtice Obama doesn't say..

PA doesn't count. hilary loses a state a that state automatically doesn't count.

Obama tries a way to reach out to the voters who are unfortunately falling for hilary lies.

[islandmkl]

12. i don't presume to know the answer to this:

What percentage of people OVER 65 (to pick an age) are truly concerned with the state of our nation and the world in the next 20 years?

Optimism aside, the number of people of that age looking for 'change' is most likely not that great.

They DO have viable political positions/situations that MUST be addressed...if they will listen.

[phillysuse]

28. Anyone with a grandchild is concerned about

the world that child will grow up in.

[islandmkl]

32. i like to think you are right....voting analysis tends to not reveal

such long-term concerns inside the polling booth..

[Frustratedlady]

36. I will be 70 and I'm extremely concerned, not only about the economy...

but about the waste of money in our government and the fact that no one is ever charged with fraud or downright criminal actions.

I have 10 grandchildren and 3 great-grandchildren. I have already apologized to them for the world I will be leaving behind. God knows, I've done what I could to change the problems by notifying my congresscritters, working campaigns and donating money. Nothing has changed. Bush and Cheney are still enjoying their time in OUR house, Halliburton/KBR, et al., are still picking our pockets and our kids are still getting killed for a stupid war.

Please don't ever say we don't care. We care deeply, as we KNOW what life was like when politics worked better. Granted, we have always had cheating and corruption, but never like what we have today with this administration and their crooked friends.

We may be old, but we can still think and feel and care about our family, friends, neighbors and fellow citizens. Don't give up on us. We are a lot stronger than you know.

On edit: Forgot to mention I support Obama and look forward to seeing Barack and Michelle as our young First Couple in the White House with those darling children. Go, Obama!

[Arkansas Granny]

43. I am not quite 65 yet, but I have children and grandchildren. I am VERY concerned

with the state of our nation and the world in the next 20 years and longer. It is unfair to categorize older voters as only being concerned with issues that will affect them. Most of us have spent the biggest part of our lives considering the needs of others over our own.

[grasswire]

125. ignorant

The people you are talking about are the rock and roll generation and the woodstock generation. The hippies and dippies and tie-dyed dropouts. The members of SDS and student walkouts and underground organizations are seniors now. The students killed at Kent State are seniors now.

What in HELL'S NAME makes you think they only care about prescription drugs and pension security? How demeaning.

Who do you think peopled the peace marches all these decades? Who do you think stopped the Vietnam war? Who do you think marched in support of civil rights legislation and every other cause in need of champions?

My god. The ignorant ageism here is spectacular.

Barack is only four year short of AARP membership. Do you think then he will have traded his vision for the world in, for a walker and false teeth?

[knixphan]

13. evolution does happen

sometimes gradually,

sometimes in quick, dramatic leaps.

but we do evolve.

There will always be 'next generations', and a portion of the preceding gen will always view the young upstarts as unworthy to take the mantle...

c'est la vie. We take the mantle regardless.

[NeedleCast]

15. She's done an excellent job scaring seniors

Playing on the old tactics of fear.

[moondust]

16. Old familiar ways. n/t

[MadBadger]

17. If the turnout model matched OH, I think Obama would have lost by a lot less

[Tactical Progressive]

18. Your problem, Obama, is that DEMOCRATS are very loyal to Hillary and Bill

And you coming into this race without any experience, and without even an admirable track record in your own provincial politics, yet somehow thinking you deserve to be considered an equal simply doesn't sit right with any Democrat of honor.

Add to that your nasty character smearing of Hillary, Bill and entire generations of existing Democrats, and well, it's not just "old" voters who can't get behind your arrogant, unearned, empty-rhetoric candidacy.

[Cant trust em]

20. Why should anyone be loyal to Hillary? NT

[Tactical Progressive]

42. Cause she's fought for progressive principles for years

many of which saw the rest of the Democrats cowering before the Publican-media machine.

She stood up, and has always stood up.

Watching Obama's petty, unbelievably nasty supporters treat her, and Bill too, like they have been, only makes real Democrats look at their ugliness and realize that Obama's popularity is built on ugly, dishonest hate.


Hillary has earned this as much as anyone I've seen in my lifetime earn a political position.

Obama? A shallow, nasty, entitled punk who's never done much of anything for anybody, let alone fight the world to get it done.

That's why.

[Cant trust em]

48. I needed her to stand up when she voted for the Iraq War

She was all too willing to lie down for the publican-media machien when I really needed her. Where were her progressive principles on October 23, 2002? She was too busy taking political cover for her White House run. There are countless people who have earned it more than Clinton. Fighting for things doesn't entitle you to anything. You have to fight the right fights.

Secondly, I think you should ask some of the folks he worked with on the South Side before you say that he's never done much of anything for anybody. Fact is after he graudated from Harvard Law School, passing up the opportunity to make a shit load of money, he worked as a community organizer.

Thirdly, I can't listen to Clinton supporters talk about how nasty Obama's campaign has been. The idea that she has been less negative than Obama is totally laughable. I'm not going to say that Obama has been squeaky clean, because that would only be slightly less idiotic.

Fourth, the idea of basing anything on what people on DU think is, to put it lightly, dumb.

Loyalty for a politician? Please. What have you done for me lately?

[Tactical Progressive]

56. When you have to promote the dishonesty

that Hillary voted "for the Iraq War" instead of the truth, then what's the point in arguing with someone who has to mischaracterize that way?

Obama would have voted the exact same way, as he did to extend the Iraq War like five times. Where was he when you needed him to stand up? Oh that's right, you don't care, any more than you care about mischaracterizing whatever you want.

Secondly, what exactly did Obama do as a 'community organizer'? LOL. Even his scant resume is smoke and mirrors. But again, you don't really care do you?

And lastly, Obama has been running negative smears from the very start of his campaign. Not so Hillary, though we're glad she's fighting back. Neither has anyone done anything as ugly as Obama's race-baiting on the Clintons in this or any Democratic race in my memory. First and nastiest: Obama. And incidentally, if you count the nastiness of his Clinton-hating supporters to, well, anyone on earth really, it would be about 10,000 : 1.

[Cant trust em]

62. She voted yes on the Authorization of Use of Military Force in Iraq

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=s2002-237.

I've heard all of the reasoning behind her vote. I'm continually disappointed by her parsing on the issue.

It is also worth noting that my initial question to you was why should I be loyal to Hillary. Your answers have largely focused on Obama. I'm sorry that given a full opportunity to tell me why you think your candidate is awesome that you've engaged in the very negativity that you're pissed at Obama for.

As for voting to continue funding the war, it is the right thing to do. The reason for it is because you cannot put the toothpaste back into the tube. George Bush put us into a crappy situation. He'll keep us in that situation no matter if the funding is there or not. He'd leave our soldiers in Iraq with cardboard armor and shooting rubber bands. We got put in a crappy situation, but only one of the candidates enabled it. All evidence we currently have shows that Obama was opposed to the war from the outset. Not only that, but the senior senator from his state voted against it. If we were going to go down that hypothetical road, it makes sense that Obama would follow the lead of Durbin.

As for Obama's "race-baiting". That is a term invented by racists to mask actual claims of racism. I'm sorry that Clinton said what he said, but it's not Obama who said it. Here are my thoughts on that.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5619976&mesg_id=5620776

Finally, I really don't care about what candidates supporters have to say about other candidates or their supporters. I don't read those threads.

[Tactical Progressive]

76. That's better, yes

Hillary made it crystal clear in her Senate floor speech that the authority to use force was NOT to start a pre-emptive war with Iraq, which the Bush Admin had promised they wouldn't. Yet Hillary haters persist in intenionally mischaracterizing it that way. You are the very first Obama supporter I've run into who hasn't insisted on lying about it to try to make a point that can't be made with the truth. So congratulations on that.

And yes, continuing to fund the war was the right (only) choice to be made. Yet, if one were to be as consistently self-righteous and arrogant as those who know that neither Hillary nor any Dem could have stopped anything with their IWR vote but don't care, one would have to be furious at Obama for funding MOST of the death in Iraq by that same single-minded sanctimony, regardless of the 'toothpast' argument. More culpable in fact, because Obama supposedly got elected after posing his anti-war credentials to get him a seat from which he could then extend the war over and over and over and over. But of course even a speck of honesty is not something Hillary haters want with their bile.

As for the race-baiting, Obama was a filthy scumbucket for his campaign accusing the Clintons of racism for questioning his anti-war credentials AND for Hillary pointing out that LBJ pushed the Civil Rights Act into our culture, at great cost to Democrats for decades, by they way. A filthy race-baiting scumbucket. No Democrat should accept that.

[Cant trust em]

122. I'll have to get back to you on this.

Busy day at the office.

Stay tuned.

[BornBlue]

79. BRAVO!!!

And yes I did mean to yell it!!! :)

[unc70]

80. BTW can anyone prove that Obama actually gave that speech in 2002?

What independent proof does anyone have that Obama actually gave "that" speech Oct 2002? We know he gave a speech and we have 14 seconds of it. Everything else appears to have been supplied after the debate, the Senate vote, and the initial repercussions.

I first noticed this when I could not find a copy of a video of the speech or any press coverage of it either. It seems strange to me that this pivotal event is a re-enactment.

[anonymous171]

94. GET THE TINFOIL READY!

[Cant trust em]

119. Sorry, Oliver Stone, but I'm not going to get into that.

Since you're the only person who has ever refuted the fact that it was given I'm going to take it at face value.

[unc70]

124. I don't claim he did not give a speech that day, just need proof of "the" speech

Some time back I noticed that there seems to be no independent proof that the speech was given on Oct 2, 2002. I have found several interesting discussions about the confusion with the date of the speech (Oct 2 or Oct 26) and a bunch of other strange stuff.

What we have for viewing is a "recreation" of a speech based on notes apparently made well after that date and presented as a press release three weeks later.

[grasswire]

126. you may be on to something here. (eom)

[walldude]

23. LMAO.. now that's funny.. "Democrat of Honor"

Which democrats are those? The ones who are for killing millions of innocent people in retaliation for killing millions of innocent people? Thats not a democrat of honor, and frankly if you believe that killing innocent people is honorable then you have no idea what the word means.

Yeah Hillary is the Honorable Democrat victim... :rofl: :rofl:

[Radical Activist]

24. Obama has more years in elective office and a more progressive career record.

No one is entitled to be President because of their last name.

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

25. I'm an old white woman and I'm behind him

And I am most certainly a Democrat of honor

My old white friends and family are supporting him.

My old white co-workers are behind him

I've almost got my white repub boss (middle aged) convinced to vote for him


Sorry, but " she is entitled to the nomination" just don't sit well with us

[Adelante]

59. Old white woman for Obama

Me, too :hi:

[Tactical Progressive]

61. She's earned it; she has never acted like she's 'entitled' to it

The only ones who have made that claim are Obama's smear brigades, and right from the start, probably to project their own candidate's acting like he's entitled to it away from themselves. Obama hasn't been fighting for this country at the federal level for decades. He's not. He has a sense of entitlement that isn't backed up by his lifetime of little accomplishment.

Hillary on the other hand doesn't have a sense of entitlement, but she has earned the job with her lifetime of effort.

So you got it exactly backwards on the entitlement perspective.

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

111. Then why did she not have a campaign plan for after

Super Tuesday ? She thought she was the inevitable nominee, that's why. They thought it would be in the bag in February.

She's nothing but a carpet bagger. They moved to NY to use the Senate seat as a stepping stone for her political career. She's done jack for NY and for the country,IMO.

In the highly unlikely event that she is the nominee, I'll hold my nose and vote for her - but that will be the extent of my involvement.

[democrattotheend]

116. My 78 and 79-year-old grandparents voted for him Tuesday in PA

April 22 is also my grandfather's birthday, and we were hoping we'd get a good primary result, but it didn't happen. :(

[hisownpetard]

26. Excuse me? You can't possibly use the term "Democrat of Honor" when referring to Hillary Clinton.

Hillary, who told the world that she thinks McCain would be better than her fellow Democrat who's running for President???

Please.

[Tactical Progressive]

39. I guess if you have to lie

Hillary never said that, not that the truth would make any difference to you, but for others ...

Hillary said that when it comes to national security, Obama has no credentials, while she and McCain do.
That's the truth. You don't like it. Just like you hate it every time Hillary points out that Obama has no experience.
So you think that gives you license to lie and smear.

It doesn't. It just makes Obama supporters liars and smearers.

[hisownpetard]

47. She didn't say that both she and McCain had passed the "Commander in Chief threshhold" -

whatever the hell that's supposed to be - but Obama hasn't?

Save your "arguments" for people who can't read.

[rodeodance]

51. I will proudly use that term to describe Hillary Clinton

[stillcool]

38. try, and try, and try, and try again..

December 10, 2007
Third Clinton Volunteer Knew Of Smear E-Mail
A third volunteer for Hillary Clinton's campaign was aware of a propaganda e-mail alleging that Barack Obama is a Muslim who plans on "destroying the U.S. from the inside out."
"Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential Candidacy," the email reads. "Please forward to everyone you know. The Muslims have said they Plan on destroying the U.S. from the inside out, what better way to start than at The highest level."


Two Clinton volunteers, Linda Olson and Judy Rose, have already been asked to resign from the campaign for their roles in forwarding the e-mail. The AP reported yesterday that Olson, a volunteer coordinator in Iowa County, sent a version of the e-mail to 11 people, including Ben Young, a regional field director for Chris Dodd's campaign. Young passed it on to the AP.
http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/12/third_clinton_v.html

Kerrey Apologizes to Obama Over Remark
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=4031436
Kerrey's mention of Obama's middle name and his Muslim roots raised eyebrows because they are also used as part of a smear campaign on the Internet that falsely suggests Obama is a Muslim who wants to bring jihad to the United States. Obama is a Christian.

The Clinton campaign has already fired two volunteer county coordinators in Iowa for forwarding hoax e-mails with the debunked claim. Last week, a national Clinton campaign co-chairman resigned for raising questions about whether Obama's teenage drug use could be used against him, so Kerrey's comments raised questions about whether the Clinton campaign might be using another high-profile surrogate to smear Obama.

Hillary: Sorry for Any Offense Campaign (Bill) Has Caused
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB65wJ6Rcfs

Bill Clinton Asks for a Second Chance
By Liz Halloran
Posted February 11, 2008

The morning after his wife, Hillary, was routed in three state contests by Sen. Barack Obama in their dead-heat battle for the Democratic nomination, former President Bill Clinton made his case for her before a packed Sunday service at one of the largest black churches in Washington, D.C.
But first he offered an apology of sorts for racially tinged comments he made about Obama and his candidacy that have triggered a backlash in the black community and among many other Democrats.

Clinton invoked his "worship of a God of second chances" in pronouncing himself glad to be at the Temple of Praise, which claims nearly 15,000 members. His invocation of second chances echoed comments he made early last week at black churches in California, where he campaigned for his wife before that state's Super Tuesday primary, which she won.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-2008/2008/02/11/bill-clinton-asks-for-a-second-chance.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/02/bill-clinton-to-apologize_n_84573.html
Bill Clinton To Apologize At LA Black Churches
Once again, Bill Clinton is ready to repent.

On Sunday the former president is scheduled to visit black churches in South Central Los Angeles, where he's expected to offer a mea culpa to those who "dearly loved him" when he was their president, Rep. Diane Watson (D-Calif.) says.
Watson, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus who has endorsed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), tells us she'll usher the former president to more than half a dozen churches in her district where she says he needs to "renew his relationship" with congregants who were turned off by his racially tinged
comments in the days leading up to and following the South Carolina primary. (Such as when Clinton compared Sen. Barack Obama's landslide victory to Jesse Jackson's wins in 1984 and 1988.)

Source: Newsday
Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 at 12:04 pm
http://www.transworldnews.com/NewsStory.aspx?id=30629&cat=5
Barack Obama Accepts Apology From Hillary Clinton
Washington D.C. 12/15/2007 09:17 AM GMT (FINDITT)

Hillary Clinton went straight to Barack Obama with an apology following a staffer's remarks about any skeletons that may be lurking in Obama's closet, pointing out that she had accepted the staffer's resignation over the disparaging remarks. Obama accepted her at her word, according to his campaign staff, and is moving on without letting it interrupt his campaign plans.

Obama is currently leading the polls in Iowa and New Hampshire, the two early primary states often considered key to the process, according to numbers at usaelectionpolls.com, but on a national level Clinton still holds a huge lead. The most recently posted poll results show Obama with 31 percent of the probable voters in New Hampshire backing him with 29 percent showing support for Clinton.

Clinton Camp Pushes O-Bomber Links: Ignores Her Own Radical Ties
By: Justin Rood

ABC News - The Hillary Clinton campaign pushed to reporters today stories about Barack Obama and his ties to former members of a radical domestic terrorist group -- but did not note that as president, Clinton's husband pardoned more than a dozen convicted violent radicals, including a member of the same group mentioned in the Obama stories.

"Wonder what the Republicans will do with this issue," mused Clinton spokesman Phil Singer in one e-mail to the media, containing a New York Sun article reporting a $200 contribution from William Ayers, a founding member of the 1970s group Weather Underground, to Obama in 2001.

In a separate e-mail, Singer forwarded an article from the Politico newspaper reporting on a 1995 event at a private home that brought Obama together with Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, another member of the radical group.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/13/clinton.obama/index.html
Clinton adviser steps down after drug use comments
Earlier Thursday, Clinton personally apologized to rival Obama for Shaheen's remarks.
Obama accepted her apology, according to David Axelrod, the top political strategist for the Obama campaign.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/edwards-no-conscience-in-clinton-campaign/
January 6, 2008, 5:18 pm
Edwards: No Conscience in Clinton Campaign
By Julie Bosman

KEENE, N.H. – John Edwards angrily took on Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton at two news conferences in a row on Sunday, saying that her campaign “doesn’t seem to have a conscience.”

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-01-17-johnson-apology_N.htm?csp=34

COMPTON, Calif. (AP) — Hillary Rodham Clinton and her campaign tried to mend ties to black voters Thursday when a key supporter apologized to her chief rival, Barack Obama, for comments that hinted at Obama's drug use as a teenager. The candidate herself, meanwhile, praised the Rev. Martin Luther King and promised to assist with the rebirth of this troubled, largely black city.
------------------

Johnson's comments and remarks by both Clintons before the New Hampshire primary last week had alarmed several black leaders and drew a rebuke from Obama and his top aides.

It began when Hillary Clinton gave an interview in which she seemed to discount King's role in the civil rights movement. Later, former President Clinton cast aspects of Obama's candidacy as a "fairy tale."

Clinton Surrogate Compares Obama Ad to Nazi March
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters?pid=278988
Fri Feb 1, 2:23 PM ET
The Nation -- On a media conference call organized by the Hillary Clinton campaign today, Clinton surrogate Len Nichols compared an Obama health care ad to Nazis.
----------
Accusing political opponents of Nazism is an outrageous smear. Raising the specter of a Nazi march in response to a health care mailer that evokes the insurance industry is so absurd, it would be hard to take the attack seriously, were it not launched from a high profile national campaign conference call in this crucial stretch of the presidential race. And political observers know, of course, that the Clinton Campaign regularly arranges opportunities for surrogates to launch these kind of smears, which are later followed up with apologies. (See: Bob Johnson, Bill Shaheen, Bob Kerrey, and Francine Torge, to name the most recent offenders.) For his part, Nichols did not immediately return a call requesting further comment.
-------------------------
Len Nichols, Director of New America's Health Policy Program, stated, "For nearly 17 years I have worked tirelessly to reform our nation's struggling health system. Today my passion overwhelmed me. I chose an analogy that was wholly inappropriate. I am deeply sorry for any offense that my unfortunate comments may have caused.

CLINTON ALLIES SUPPRESS THE VOTE IN NEVADA...
On Meet the Press on Sunday, Hillary Clinton said her campaign had nothing to do with a lawsuit--written about by Nation Editor Katrina vanden Heuvel--that threatens to prevent thousands of workers from voting in the Nevada caucus on Saturday.
Back in March, the Nevada Democratic Party agreed to set up caucus locations on the Vegas strip for low-income shift workers, many of them members of the state's influential Culinary Union, who commute long distances to work and wouldn't be able to get home in time to caucus. It was an uncontroversial idea until the Culinary Union endorsed Barack Obama and the Nevada State Education Association, whose top officials support Clinton, sued to shut down the caucus sites.
The Clinton camp played dumb until yesterday, when President Clinton came out in favor of the lawsuit.

Clinton's comments drew a heated response from D. Taylor, the head of Nevada's Culinary Union, on MSNBC's Hardball. "He is in support of disenfranchising thousands upon thousands of workers, not even just our members," Taylor said of Clinton. "The teachers union is just being used here. We understand that This is the Clinton campaign. They tried to disenfranchise students in Iowa. Now they're trying to
disenfranchise people here in Nevada, who are union members and people of color and women."
Rank-and-file members of Nevada's teachers union also come out against the lawsuit filed by their leadership. "We never thought our union and Senator Clinton would put politics ahead of what's right for our students, but that's exactly what they're doing," the letter stated. "As teachers, and proud Democrats, we hope they will drop this undemocratic lawsuit and help all Nevadans caucus, no matter which candidate they support."
The lawsuit's opponents make a persuasive point. Creating obstacles to voting is what the GOP does to Democrats, not what Democrats should be doing to other Democrats.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/a-feisty-bill-clinton-defends-nevada-lawsuit/

Link for lawsuit: http://graphics.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/20080112_nevada_lawsuit.pdf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[Tactical Progressive]

49. Yes, the Clintons have been apologizing

for anything negative that their campaign workers have done which Obama's campaign have had the slightest trouble with. And gotten rid of them for the most part.

Not so Obama.

Neither the Clintons, nor Bob Kerrey, should have apologized for any of the race-baiting that Obama and his campaign have perpetrated. Obama should have been apologizing for those disgusting smear tactics. But he hasn't.

Keep trying.

[stillcool]

55. That's because he has nothing..

to apologize for. Your Lying does not make it so. Otherwise you would provide some info, rather than bogus assertions. Typical though.

[Shae]

106. There's still time for TP to provide that info.

I wonder where he went.

[anonymous171]

40. Democrats don't vote for McCain.

[Arkana]

58. An "equal"?

Did red flags go up in anyone else's head when they read this?

[Shae]

108. Not sure what that means . . .

I was more focused on the implication that Obama supporters are not "Democrats of honor."

Then I got to the part about Obama's "nasty character smearing of Hillary."
Same ol', same ol'. They can never back that up, because there isn't anything there.
Obama has "attacked" Hillary on her stance on some issues, but I have never seen or heard anything that he said which was an "attack" on her character.
If I'm wrong on this, I hope someone will let me know with specific documented examples.

[Egnever]

131. Most likely the most honest post of the thread

Not sure if its really a problem in the end for him but in the primaries there is no doubt you have nailed it.

[Radical Activist]

22. Blind loyalty to the Clinton name by people who don't go online for information.

Yes, that's why Hillary holds on. The Clinton cult.

And let's hand it to Hillary Clinton. She has been targeting elderly voters for over a decade. She also ignored most issues young people care about along with most of the party establishment. The fact that young voters are going to Obama after being ignored by the Clinton era party is no surprise.

[anonymous171]

45. Did you watch the debate? She was all "The 90's and 9/11"

Like a combination of Bill Clinton and this guy:

[Adelante]

27. He sees a weakening in her support among older voters

From Ohio to PA he cut her margin from 41 points to 24 points among voters over 60. He's going to try to narrow it more.

Yay.

[Catchawave]

31. Why that little whipper-snapper, I oughta thump him one....

Geeze Obama, stop whinning fer chrissakes, it's getting annoying.

:banghead:

[lumberjack_jeff]

35. I wonder why? Surely it's not your supporters.

Because "only an idiot" forms any opinions on the candidate based on the conduct of their disci... err I mean supporters.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5648608&mesg_id=5648608

Hey, it could be worse. The linked post only has about 40 recommends currently.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

65. I just gave it it's 31st rec.

The OP in the thread isn't exactly right. Racists of all ages use the term "race card".

Just as I'm sure an MRA like you has been known to throw out "gender card" a time or two.

[lumberjack_jeff]

66. Hardly an MRA, darlin. n/t

Sexist? Only in present company.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

68. If the shoe fits, toots.

And I bet you've used "race card" in more than one conversation too.

[lumberjack_jeff]

69. You are a singularly unskilled bettor. n/t

[mrreowwr_kittty]

70. Maybe. Or perhaps you're a singularly unskilled prevaricator. nt.

[Faygo Kid]

37. That's not how he put it. But, those 65+ (and white) are tough for him.

They're from a different era. I'm 56, and there's a galaxy of difference between me and somebody who is 65. But don't screw with Social Security and Medicare. Adjust, yes, but McCain wants to privatize Social Security. That alone ends it for him.

But Barack can win them over. Remember, 65 year olds were just 25 when Bobby and Martin were killed.

That makes me feel old. But screw it, I've had a great time, and not done yet.

[JoFerret]

44. Shoot them?

Of course they are loyal. They have reason to be.
Anyone who has paid attention in real time over time understands this.
Hype does not win out over history.

[RBInMaine]

46. "Hype" like fake claims of dodging bullets and brokering peace treaties?

[JoFerret]

63. These older voters did that?

Shame on them.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

64. Well, this old guy loathes the Clintons and what they stand for.

Not that enamored of Obama's brand of "moderate" politics either. But, at least he has the potential of moving the party to the left.

[wisteria]

71. He is right. He needs to build that trust with them.n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

72. Or perhaps they're simply loyal democrats with a preference for Hillary.

Maybe "the problem" is overstated.

[EmilyAnne]

77. Maybe so. Still, I understand that, if Obama is the nominee, he will have to make it very clear

to our seniors that he will be better than McCain. I'm young, but I love my grandmother and worry like hell about her financial situation. If I though for a second that an Obama presidency would be bd for her, there is no way I would support him.

[lumberjack_jeff]

83. Absolutely right. n/t

[eleny]

74. I'm 61....

... retired from a career and a woman. After Kucinich and Edwards left the primary I went to Obama - no question.

[boston bean]

75. Well he shouldn't have dissed boomers then! it's his own damn fault. nt

[StevieM]

81. It's not that they're loyal it's that they are smart enough to recognize his hateful campaign of

personal destruction. They understand what a good person Hillary Clinton is and how deceitful Barack Obama is. They have been around the block a few times.

Steve

[Tactical Progressive]

84. Exactly

[anonymous171]

96. lol super-projection.

[ecstatic]

88. Obama is so gracious...

Bless his heart.

[Two Americas]

91. yet another "they"

Now we have yet another "they" who are a "problem" and are in the way.

[jackson_dem]

97. Obama lost white working class voters in PA by 40. That cuts across age...

[GoldieAZ49]

98. He also lost the Catholic vote

The more we know about him the more he loses

[EstimatedProphet]

101. Thank God Obama has the sense to see that!

Because if it were left up to his DU evangelists, there would be no need to listen to any constituency - anyone who doesn't devote themselves to Obama is a racist, after all, and whenever Obama loses, it's because the voting machines are rigged.

[Kitty Herder]

103. The seniors I know, tend to be racist. And I mean really racist.

I don't want to offend any seniors here. There are lots of seniors who aren't racist. They just don't live around my neck of the woods.

You should here my Grandma. Or my great-uncles and great-aunts. Or my older neighbors and friends. They say terribly racist things. And if I tell them I'm supporting Obama, they act like I've suddenly sprouted a second head.

(edited to add: My neck of the woods is rural Utah, so, yeah, racism among the older folks is to be expected here.)

[WinkyDink]

128. Really? Well, the young people I taught were extremely incurious about the world. Now,

whose generality shall we tout as "truth"?

[Kitty Herder]

129. As my other grandma used to say, " No generality is worth a damn." I told of my

experience: That the seniors I know tend to be racist. I also qualified that by saying that I know there are senior who are not, but I live in an area where racism seems to be the rule among those over the age of 55. At least among those I encounter. It's not their fault. They were taught to be racist by their church which taught them that blacks were descended from Cain and didn't allow blacks to hold the priesthood (a privilege granted to every white man) until 1978, one year after I was born. And they believe their church is infallible.

You told of your experience, that the young people you taught were incurious about the world. I don't doubt that one bit. Hell, most the young people I know are that way, too. I used to be. I was too wrapped up in my own troubles, too depressed to see beyond them. However, one of my high school teachers planted seeds of curiosity by teaching us to think for ourselves. Eventually those seeds sprouted in me. They're still sprouting and growing. As an adult, I have an insatiable curiosity about the world and care deeply about certain causes. The curiosity I'd had so much of as a very young child, that was killed off by school and a miserable home-life, has come back to life. So don't give up on your students. You never know when and where the seeds you plant will take root and grow.

[Evergreen Emerald]

104. how insulting. He is suggesting that people are not voting issues

And he forgets how he has insulted the baby boomers in the past.

He is so out of touch.

[RBInMaine]

105. He is GENERALLY correct. There is an age demographic divide. THIS IS NOT NEWS.

With these 2 candidates (a relatively younger AA man and a 60 year old white female with the name Clinton) there are going to be sharp demographic divides, especially in some states more than others. Older folks, women, and working class folks go more for Clinton. Younger, progressive, white collar, and AA voters go more for Obama. ALL of these demographics are critical in the fall for our nominee. The challenge for Obama AND Clinton are to find ways to cut into one another's bases which are sharply polarized. It's a tough challenge, but in some places especially tough for Obama as the new "insurgent" candidate on the block. Older and more conservative primary Dems have a COMFORT level with Hillary as their known quantity.

[redqueen]

113. It's not news, but with enough POUTRAGE, it can be spun that way. (nt)

[BlooInBloo]

117. Manufactroversy #78 coming up!

[BlooInBloo]

115. Heh. HE wouldn't have said it if he wasn't already implementing a plan to address it.

[WinkyDink]

127. That's not a "problem"; it's a natural consequence of denigrating "Boomers".

Barack Obama says the baby boomers' time has passed.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/061231/8obama.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/21/weekinreview/21broder.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[Egnever]

130. This dude just rocks!

Honesty is so refreshing in a candidate. He doesnt back away he confronts the issue head on time after time. People parse his words and find the gaffe somewhere in his responses but his answers are straight forward and to the crux of the issue time and time again.

This is going to be an awesome presidency!