Moving the goal post: will of the people vs will of the pledged delegates

[ProudToBeLiberal]

I have noticed that Senator Obama's supporters has been moving the goal post steadily. A couple of months ago Obama's supporters were clamoring that the superdelegates should go with the nominee who won the most votes in their respective states.

Then it changed to that the superdelegates should not overturn the "will of the people."

However, after Senator Clinton took the lead in the popular vote, Obama supporters have subtly changed their language to that Clinton should not overturn the "will of the pledged delegates.

What's going to be next?

[Zhade]

1. False premise, since she never took the popular vote lead.

NT!

[ProudToBeLiberal]

4. She's leading by about 125k after the Pennsylvania primary

She won the Penn Primary about 215k, which helped her take the lead in the pop vote.

[GarbagemanLB]

6. Except MI for sure will not count, and FL won't either. Sorry, she is still behind.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

12. Howard Dean said that FL and MI will be seated.

Also the Secretary of States have certified the votes in the two states.

[GarbagemanLB]

15. They will be seated...once the nominee is chosen, not before.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

21. Then you're disenfranchising million of voters...

Wow, a democratic member advocating for the purposeful disenfranchisement of millions of people. Sounds more like a Repuke.

[SunsetDreams]

25. No First....

The Florida and Michigan Legislature disenfranchized their own voters, by moving the primaries up after they were warned that their primaries would not count. They did it anyway.

Next you can blame Hillary, because she signed the agreement that they wouldn't count, and is even on video saying they wouldn't count.

Then all of a sudden, when she is losing, she starts screaming disenfranchized voters. If Obama would have "won" them, she sure as hell would not be pushing this.

Hillary is a bold faced liar.

Those states need to blame thier party leaders.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

29. Wow, your post have so many misconceptions

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/23/102017/841

I can;t post the whole think because I don't have permission, but check out this post that debunks your misheld assuptions.

[Zhade]

31. You haven't debunked a thing. But here's the great part - the rules don't give a fuck how you feel.

And they won't bow to idiocy like yours.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

40. Is this a personal attack?

Just asking because its against the rules.

oh btw, the rules don't give a fuck how you feel.

[Zhade]

44. I didn't call you an idiot; I pointed out that you are demonstrating idiocy.

People can make mistakes, or they can be fuck-ups. I posted regarding the latter.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

45. you have to admit, I turned your statement beautifully back at you

with the whole "rules don't give a fuck what you think"

[Zhade]

48. I'd admit it, if it were true. Since there was no rule violation - you still fail.

NT!

[ProudToBeLiberal]

49. admitting you're in denial the first step to being cured...

NT!

[SunsetDreams]

37. sorry I don't go to the spun lies of mydd considering their lies about Obama

[Zhade]

30. Learn some remedial government. It's not disenfranchisement.

Don't like it? Take it to court to overturn the legal precedent that established that you don't have a RIGHT to vote in a PRIMARY.

[SunsetDreams]

16. they won't be rewarded for breaking the rules.

They will be seated but penalized heavily, and it will not affect the outcome.

48 other states followed the rules, they are not going to reward two for breaking them, sorry.

[Zhade]

28. He did indeed - IN A MANNER THAT BOTH CAMPAIGNS AGREE ON.

You desperate clintrolls keep forgetting that VERY RELEVANT FACT.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

36. Let me help you clear up your misconceptions

10) All the candidates signed a pledge to the DNC not to campaign in the states violating primary timing.


FALSE: The candidates signed no such pledge to the DNC.

11) Hillary violated the rules against campaigning in Florida and Michigan.


FALSE: Jurisdiction over determinations of whether a candidate shall be considered in violation of the relevant rule (Rule 20 C.1.b.) lies with the Rules and Bylaws Committee. Because the Committee has not ruled against either candidate, it is false to assert that either candidate is in violation.

12) Hillary signed a pledge that she violated by remaining on the ballot in Florida and Michigan?


FALSE: The only pledges signed were between the candidates and the state party chairs in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Nevada. More to the point, they were not binding on the DNC, which is the only organization that has authority over seating delegates. Thus, these pledges are not controlling over the seating of Florida and Michigan delegates.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/23/102017/841

[Zhade]

41. Once again, the truth doesn't care about your lies. Obama will win.

NT!

[kevinbgoode]

14. The uncommitteds kicked her butt in Michigan anyway.

It's pretty bad to be the only candidate on a ballot and you can't get a majority of the votes.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

23. It was 55% Clinton and 40% Uncommited in Michigan

How is that not the majority?

[SunsetDreams]

7. fuzzy math?

How does 215,000 subtracted from 700,000 something equal her taking the lead in pop vote?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

18. Where are you getting your fuzzy math?

Sen. Obama took his name off the Michigan ballot, so he got no votes there. But Sen. Clinton remained on the ballot, and the New York senator picked up 329,000 votes. Both candidates were on the ballot in Florida, which Sen. Clinton won by about 300,000 votes. If those two states' disputed votes are counted, Sen. Clinton would lead in the popular vote by 123,000.

The RealClearPolitics estimate also doesn't include the results of four caucus states that didn't release numbers. The Web site calculates that Sen. Obama would net 110,000 votes if its estimate of those vote totals were included. That would still leave him behind by 13,000 votes, or 0.04%, of the 30.7 million

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120900311206240473.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

[SunsetDreams]

20. right back at ya....I guess you haven't listened to the pundits and

strategists spell it out today.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

24. link? n/t

[SunsetDreams]

34. Here's one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x122816

[ProudToBeLiberal]

42. Sorry, I don't click links from monikors that have "Sunset" in it. n/t

[Zhade]

8. No, she's not. Go read the "MATH" thread and get back to us.

You're WRONG.

[TahitiNut]

9. Total, complete hogwash.

Read much? :eyes:

[kevinbgoode]

10. Nice try.

[newmajority]

33. Please explain, exactly how she is leading in the popular vote.

And do it ONLY with states where valid elections were held.

[SunsetDreams]

2. She has not taken the lead in anything

His lead in popular vote is still something like 483,000

It's Sen. Clinton that keeps moving the goal posts.

She spun this into a double digit lead, it was 9.2% not 10%

She spun the lie about over taking the lead in popular vote, because she is hurting for money. Obama made her spend heavily. Plus she is 10,000,000 in debt.

[GarbagemanLB]

3. She hasn't taken the popular vote lead, sorry.

[shraby]

5. Where did you get the idea she has the

lead in popular vote? If it's counting MI and FL which she honestly didn't win and can't win now cause they've been taken off the shelf, I think you'd better subtract them from her total. Obama is ahead in the popular vote and has been for a long time.

[SunsetDreams]

13. From Hillary herself, that's what she's been lying about today

[cliffordu]

11. Specious Posit. Shame.

[wileedog]

17. Its always been about pledged delegates

Always will be unless there is a tie. Which isn't happening.

Thanks for playing.

And by playing I mean making a bunch of shit up with no basis in reality.

[Scooter24]

19. She has never had the lead in any race this contest...

Obama has the most pledged delegates...

Obama has raised the most money...

Obama has the most popular votes...

Obama has won the most states (by a 2-1 margin- 30 of 45)

The goalpost has always stayed the same. Party tradition has always been the winner of most votes in the primary should recieve the Super Delegate vote. That has been the standard for this whole primary season.

Now about Clinton, she never took the lead in the popular vote. Naturally, she is including Michigan (of which Obama wasn't even on the ballot) and Florida (where he didn't campaign) whose votes of course went overwhelmingly to her. Since the states were never in play and because she needs the numbers to influence SD's, she is all of a suddent counting these votes as part of her tally. Not very honest in my opinon but at least the SD's are still coming into Obama's court. She is desperate right now, for money and for votes.

[Triana]

22. Clinton is not in the lead in the popular votes...MI and FL don't count...

...MI will likely never count because Obama wasn't even on the ballot there. HE knows how to follow the rules.

Find something better to smoke, eh?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

26. So, do you have the guts to back up your words?

Go to a florida and michigan and tell them "your fucking votes don't count." Go to Martin Luther Kings Jr.'s grave and tell him that millions of votes casted in FL and Mi don't count.

Your post sounds like the typical internet bully. He/she talks the talks, but when it comes down to it they hide behind their computer.

[GarbagemanLB]

35. uh...what the fuck? Are you taking your meds?

[PermanentRevolution]

39. I'm from Florida.

Florida and Michigan's votes don't count. A fact which every single one of us knew before we voted.

[Zhade]

46. Wow, you're off the reservation. I've never seen a clintroll insult King as you just did.

NT!

[ProudToBeLiberal]

50. If you stop insulting me, maybe we can be friends :)

NT!

[newmajority]

47. Why don't YOU go to Dr. King's grave, and you can tell him how proud you are of PA

Where 1 out of 5 Hillary voters said they would NEVER vote for a Black man. I'm sure he would love to hear that.

If the voters of Michigan and Florida want to be pissed at someone for their non-elections, they should try the DLC scumbags in those state's parties who deliberately tried to front load those states, so they could be a part of the expected Hillary coronation.

Which ended up being cancelled anyway, thank God.

[NanceGreggs]

27. When I see a Hill supporter ...

... accusing anyone else on the entire planet of moving goalposts, I have to acknowledge that the bottom of the barrel has now officially been scraped.

[kwenu]

32. Lies. Obama supporters did NOT come up with that. The media DID!!!! Try again, please.

There is no versus for Obama it is one and the same.

[Zhade]

38. THE TRUTH, TO COUNTER THE LIES (OR SELF-DELUSION) OF THE OP:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5639954

...WHICH DEMONSTRATES THAT EVEN IF FL AND MI ARE SEATED, SHE'S STILL BEHIND EVEN IN THE IRRELEVANT POPULAR VOTE METRIC.

You fail, OP. Suck on the truth!

[SunsetDreams]

43. yeah frankly I'm done with this OP, we've given links and

debunks and still they spin....so I will not be coming back to this post

[ProudToBeLiberal]

51. How's the horseback riding and croquette at your estate? n/t