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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 11:49 AM
Original message
Clark on Globalism, H-1B, and Buy American
Edited on Sat Jan-03-04 11:59 AM by gulliver
Reposted from here: http://abby.forclark.com/story/2003/12/31/17032/961

I checked this transcript by watching the actual C-SPAN video of the Nashua Pancake Breakfast 12/20/03 available at cspan.org. Just search for Clark. The exchange on globalism is about 45 minutes in. Clark also talks about BBV/Diebold (not in the transcript below) before that.

Question: I'd like to know your philosophy surrounding globalism and what you'll do with H1-B visas and also the dramatic amount of offshore outsourcing.

General Clark: Yeah, I'm very concerned about it. You know- the issue is globalism - H1-B visas are the visas that are given to these very smart, computer literate experts from the Indian Institute of Technology who come into the country. They often work at reduced wages to the native... to American citizens, and then they leave and they take back their skills, and they take back what they've learned here and start businesses at home. And, what's happened is, is that we- we took advantage of an explosion in trade opening, technology, improved communications, the fall of the Iron Curtain and so forth in the 1990's. And it brought an immediate surge of prosperity to the United States. But we didn't understand the full dimensions of what we were dealing with. In the 19th century, when we began to develop railroads, first they were developed in Britain. And then the British invested in America. And of course to build railroads you have to have steel and to have steel you have to dig up iron ore and you have to... and so it...it was a 30 year process to industrialize America. Started before the Civil War, really picked up speed after the Civil War... by the turn of the Century we were the greatest power in the world, but it took 30 years.

A hundred years ago the Brits were asking themselves, "What happened? We, We - Britain - We were the leaders in the industrial age and now America and even Germany has overtaken us in Steel production. And we're no longer the greatest industrial power." And they paid for it.

What we didn't understand is with the knowledge industry it doesn't take 30 years. You don't have to build blast furnaces and Bessimer converters and open pit iron mines. All you have to have is a telephone wire, and a laptop computer, and you simply bring it in and work. And so it's meant an export of software jobs and service industry jobs things like telephone calling and other things that have migrated overseas at an astonishingly rapid rate. And that's what's happening to America. Not only cheap Chinese manufacturing, but also the software stuff.

So here's what I will do. In the first place, I believe in 'Buy American'- not only hardware, but software. Everything that's associated with national security we will procure in the United States. (APPLAUSE) Our financial industry, our utility industries, virtually every aspect of American life is controlled in some way by information technology. And we simply can't afford to have that developed abroad in other countries, because you can't tell what's in it. It works but you don't know whether it's got these so called trap doors and other things that could sabotage it at some point. So the essential stuff is, buy American hardware and software. We need to relook the H1-B visa. I'm all in favor of bringing people into this country, but only at fully competitive wage rates. (APPLAUSE) Not bringing people in to take jobs from Americans. (APPLAUSE continuing) And when they come here, I'd like them to stay and become American citizens... I met a man in Manchester the other day from India, he's a graduate of the Indian Institute of Technology, he came here, started a software company, married an American woman, they're running a serires of Nursing Homes - I congratulate him. It's the American dream. It's a success story. And we're glad to have him. So we want 'em to come but we want them to stay and be with us and put that creativity to work here and keep it in our economy.

And I will also remove all the business incentives that will let companies profit, taxwise or otherwise, from outsourcing jobs or moving their headquarters abroad. (APPLAUSE). We're not gonna keep America safe and we're not gonna make ourselves prosperous by walling off America from the outside world. But trade and markets exist to help people. They're not gods... you don't worship them... you dont let them go and do whatever they want. They have to be regulated, they have to be made fair, they have to be made transparent, people have to have information to participate in them. We're going to ask every company that outsources jobs to report it so that as Americans we know which companies are preparing to outsource jobs, and we're going to provide incentives for companies who want to keep jobs and expand jobs in America. We're going to protect American employment (APPLAUSE). (Person asking question nods head).

In Berlin New Hampshire a man in the Paper Mill said to me, he said, "You know I'm really worried" he said, "You know we got a hundred and twenty people laid off here. We're working through Christmas we're working 12 hour days but we don't know if we're going to have our jobs after Christmas. We're under foreign competition, we just don't know what's happening," he said, "And this country can't live if it doesn't produce things - it can't just buy Chinese manufactured goods." And he's exactly right, and I promise you (APPLAUSE) I promise you as president of the United States, we'll put America back to work and we will produce - we won't just service, we will produce- and we'll make the finest products in the world in everything from energy technology, to environmental technology, to new automobiles, to battery chips, generators, software, hardware, jet planes and whatever else there is, and we'll be proud to see on our products, Made in the USA.(APPLAUSE)
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lcordero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. How does one "buy American" when nothing is made here?
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. That's not totally true.
You can buy an american car. That's a big one. Chevy is in Michigan and Kansas. You can buy food from american farmers. Why buy foreign oranges or grapes when you cen get them here. You can use company's that bases their ownership here USPS, McDonalds (I think), others. It can be done.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
2. Good points
Clark has a lot of common sense. I can't believe that we have outsourced so much stuff involving national security to outsiders. How in the world can we stay safe?
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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. These are the words of an extremely intelligent man
n/t
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. What a difference from the fool in the White House
Can't wait for him to be president and get rid of this administration.
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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. Look at the first items on this list
"and we'll make the finest products in the world in everything from energy technology, to environmental technology, to new automobiles, to battery chips, generators, software, hardware, jet planes and whatever else there is, and we'll be proud to see on our products, Made in the USA."

I think Clark would really help push the alternative energy agenda.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. You provided a real service here
Thank you gulliver. I watched the event on CSAN and I was impressed and thought, sure wish some of those people who keep harping on that "software to India" off the cuff comment could listen to what Clark really has to say on the issue.

Clark was just as impressive answering questions on a variety of other domestic topics. It burns me when some insist he's a one issue candidate, though I realize National Security experience is what distinguishes Clark the most from other Democratic candidates.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
7. thanks for the post
:)
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. Excellent work
I have been trying to refer people to this video, but not everyone has broadband.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. I'm watching the video now
I've said it a million times - Clark is obviously "socially liberal" enough to win the Democratic primary, and because of his military background, simply can't be painted as an "out of touch liberal."

Let's face it, his votes for Reagan and Nixon and support of the Vietnam War is calling his Democratic Credentials into question. If he worked the populist economic message more, he would erase any doubts.

Clark military background gives him the "gravitas" to take on Corporate America, because he's not just another politician or business CEO.

Really, this primary is his to lose...Dean's got the organization, but Clark can use the internet too (if there's still time that is.)
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
10. I remember
when I heard him saying these things saying to myself that this guy really 'gets it'. He's more than just I'm going to stop blah blah or do blah. He goes to the heart of things and if the media would give him a chance and ask him more about the domestic issues instead of just the military stuff it would show people what a gem he is. I hope he gets the nomination but if he doesn't I hope he has a big place in a new admistration.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
11. Slight problem here
I still don't know if Clark is a "free trader" or not from that statement.

"Buy American" is like saying you're for Apple Pie and Motherhood. It's a feel-good phrase that has no teeth.

And why only focus on rewarding companies that leave jopbs in America? I agree incentives are a good thing, but what would he do to create sticks that also discourage American companies from shipping their jobs overseas? Is Clark willing to go against Corporate America in a meaningful way? Or is he treeading the usual centrist DLC line that "free trade is good we just have to make it a little nicer?"

Please note that my reference to "free trade" is not against international trade, which is a good thing. But the "free trade" movement is basically just Corporate Conservatism projected onto a world stage.

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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. I think"Buy American" IS the stick... re: Government Contracts
that's what I read into it. not perfectly clear, tho.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Not a very big one
I don't think most makers of toys, clothing and otehr cinsumer goods are very worries about government contracts.

It's a step, but a small one.

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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. He is certainly hinting at that
This part SHOULD go without saying, for Democrats and Republicans alike, since this is just artificial regulation and market distorting anyway:

"I will also remove all the business incentives that will let companies profit, taxwise or otherwise, from outsourcing jobs or moving their headquarters abroad."
...

This is promising, at least Clark isn't a "market fundamentalist" or other voo-doo style corporatist:

"But trade and markets exist to help people. They're not gods... you don't worship them... you dont let them go and do whatever they want. They have to be regulated, they have to be made fair, they have to be made transparent, people have to have information to participate in them. "
...

"We're going to ask every company that outsources jobs to report it so that as Americans we know which companies are preparing to outsource jobs"

Eh, that's biolerplate and kind of vague ... notification is alread required in many cases, and reporting alone won't do anything...

...

"and we're going to provide incentives for companies who want to keep jobs and expand jobs in America. We're going to protect American employment"

Tariffs? Protectionism? GASP!
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
12. I'd prefer if Wesley Clark were more specific.
Edited on Sat Jan-03-04 12:52 PM by Eric J in MN
If Clark said "we should lower the number of H1B visas," then I'd know he wants to lower the number of H1B visas.

Based on those paragraphs, I don't know what his policy would be.

With regard to Clark's statement about "bringing people into this country, but only at fully competitive wage rates," that is what law already says.

Part of the problem is that the massive number of H1Bs itself lowers wages.

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DIBL Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Competitive wage rate for H!-B workers
Yes, that is what the law already says but companies are finding various loopholes to get around it and deny thousands of foreign workers of their deserved wages. For example, I know a couple of cases where a certain company broadened the job description of some highly specialized employees so that, based on those descriptions, the prevalent salaries that they were required to pay by law were up to $25k lower than those paid to equivalently skilled American employees. It's mostly, but not exclusively, Indians who bear the brunt of this policy. To make matters worse, these workers are forced into accepting these terms if they want to stay and work in this country, unless they can find another better-paying position or get permanent residence status which gives them more leverage to negotiate.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
13. That was great! IMHO, Gen. Clark is very clear and accurate on this issue.
Edited on Sat Jan-03-04 12:51 PM by w4rma
This is a much different tone than he had about a month or so ago. He has done his research, and how. Very impressive! :bounce:

Thank you, very much, for posting this, gulliver.

Note, I would like to hear more details of his policy proposals, though. Armstead and Eric J in MN, above, are correct, IMHO.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
14. good Clark, finally, BUT
This is mostly what Dean says - and NOT what Kucinich and Braun and even Gephardt are saying...

"But we didn't understand the full dimensions of what we were dealing with."

That's just not true. Clark is purposefully being vague about the terms "we" and "our".

The United States CORPORATIONS are the ones who moved production offshore, and collaborated with various dictators and despots in order to get cheap labor. The United States CORPORATIONS decided to bring in H1-Bs specifically to lower the wages of American workers. This was not some accident or a lack of forsight, this was deliberate, and if you read the newspapers in the last ten years, it was NO secret.

This has been going on since Paul Volker publically announced that Americans will have to deal with a lower living standard if Wall Street wanted to make more money, in 1980, right before the "Reagan Recession".

No proposals are going to do anything about this unless it addresses the MAIN ISSUE - who gets to make decisions about where the jobs are?

If we allow rich people, CEOs, and investors to decide, we know what will happen - they will oursource and offshore and import cheap labor until we all work for lower wages. Or, we don't.

Clark is 100% correct that anything related to national security, and the government in general, must be done in America by Americans. If Clark really takes leadership on this he'll win a WHOLE LOT of votes...

And good for him for pointing out that we want highly skilled people from democratic countries like India bringing their skills here and building wealth and business in America. We DO NOT want H1-B visas, we want honest immigration. I've learned half of what I know from Indian scientists in America, we'd be much worse off without them.


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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Exactly
The problem with the "free trade" movement is not that the corporate architects made a mistake or didn;t forsee the consequences. They knew exactly what would happen, but they didn't care. As long as it helped their bottom line.

It's the politicians and others who bought into it that were fools. Any idiot should have been able to predict where these policies would lead. But Clinton and otehrs were too blinded by the snake oil sold to them by "experts" and by the corporate cash that was attached.

Democrats have to make a clean break from those policies and encourage interntional trade that is not simply an ecuse to foist a corporate conservative agenda on the US and the rest of the world.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. yes
There are a few factions (read: wealthy upper class white liberals) in the Democratic party that went along with this, and got paid back by Corporate America supporting their social concerns.

When the botton drops out from the Democratic party, blame them. You can't expect solidarity unless you give it.

And don't insult our intelligence with some crap about "we had no idea" that corporations were going to try to bust unions and lower wages. I may be young but I wasn't born yesterday.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
20. someone needs to ask Clark specifically...
Edited on Sat Jan-03-04 01:24 PM by mike_c
...will you withdraw from the WTO, or at least seriously renegotiate the trade agreements? Statements like this imply that, but don't say it outright:

And I will also remove all the business incentives that will let companies profit, taxwise or otherwise, from outsourcing jobs or moving their headquarters abroad.

Those incentives are built into the current agreements-- bad ones, IMO-- so removing them will be a good thing for most Americans but will gut the GAT. Clark needs to be more specific about his intentions here. This is VERY important.
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ClarkUeberAlles Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
23. too damn intellectual
I can imagine his audiences eyes start to glaze over when he started talking about England in the 19th century. I really think Clark's biggest flaw is that he needs to dumb down his speeches sometimes.

Clark is the most inetelligent person running for president but the average person isn't on his level.
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Clark4VotingRights Donating Member (795 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-03-04 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Assuming it's possible to dumb down speeches sufficiently for 'Merkans
eom
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jmaier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
25. gulliver
Thanks for posting this. I've heard his comments referenced but couldn't remember the source.



Wes Clark. He will make an extraordinary American President.
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