Rec this thread if you think it's idiotic to say Hillary won PA by 10 pts when she really didn't

[jgraz]

9.2 != 10

Can we please at least adhere to basic standards of 4th grade arithmetic?

[mmonk]

1. For the purposes of the media yes.

For any other purpose, it doesn't matter.

[BuyingThyme]

2. She couldn't close that deal?

She must be very bitter.

[jkshaw]

3. 9.2% rounded out is 9%

Period.

[populistdriven]

47. 9.2 is DOUBLE DIGITS!!

:puke:

[Jackpine Radical]

70. 9.19 is three digits.

This is one digit:


Basically I don't give a shit how many digits she won by. This whole mess has gone on too long.

[Barrymores Ghost]

87. This is a masterpiece.

Short, succinct, and quite to the muthahf&$#in' point.

[samsingh]

90. 9.20 is 3 digits - 4 if you count the decimal point

[Sequoia]

120. You are 100% correct.

[angie_love]

4. Its idiotic but lying is a hobby for her so it makes sense

[ChairmanAgnostic]

50. oh bull.

it is not a hobby. It's her way of life.

Please.

[0007]

103. Its not a hobby it is something that comes naturally.

[JVS]

5. She failed to clear the bar she set. So they need to exaggerate.

[thoughtcrime1984]

6. Not that it matters much.......

The delegate gap is too big for her to make up, and a 9 or 10 percent win in PA didn't do much for her.

[EFerrari]

7. It's a great illustration of how unreliable our media is. And here's another

in case you didn't see it this morning, from the HelLA Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-obama23apr23,1,7095215.story

It turns out that some DUers WERE AT THAT RALLY. The crowd wasn't "subdued", the place was filled to capacity -- at over 12K, and no one takes questions AT A RALLY. :puke:

[cui bono]

10. I heard yesterday that Mellencamp was playing at a Clinton rally. n/t

[EFerrari]

13. That's sort of hard to believe? He's been out with Obama

all over the place. :)

[Greyskye]

15. "Mellencamp taking stage with both Obama, Clinton"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_campaignplus/20080422/ap_ca/on_the2008_trail_2

Bob Merlis, Mellencamp's publicist, said the rocker hasn't said who he'll vote for but sees Democrats as the greatest hope for change.

"Neither candidate is as liberal as he would prefer, but he's happy to contribute what he can," Merlis said Tuesday.

(edit: typo and Rec)

[EFerrari]

18. Interesting. Thanks, Greyskye. n/t

[cui bono]

16. Hm... I was watching Countdown and a bit of Hardball after work.

It would have been on one of those. I probably misheard it then.

[Politicalboi]

63. Mellencamp is a whore

[IsItJustMe]

97. Republicans don't like him. That's for sure. You don't like those songs he wrote about Bush, huh?

[Kajsa]

104. NO, he's a Democrat.

And since Edwards stepped down, he's
now undecided.

Try reading the article.

Sheesh!

[ginnyinWI]

102. This is not good news if it catches on--

the meme that he's peaked and going down--on such flimsy evidence! I'm ashamed of the L.A. Times! How the hell do they know how he feels? This is not journalism!!

[cui bono]

8. Waiting for someone to say 9.2 is double digits.

[formercia]

9. It's what the Clinton Campaign is all about.

Reverse 99 cent psychology.

[FSogol]

11. I'll give someone saying 9.2% is about 10%, but I draw

the line at calling it a double digit lead.

[Guaranteed]

40. Bingo. nt

[psychmommy]

71. .5 and under round down,

you don't round 9.2 up to 10. it rounds down to 9. she certainly did not make the double digit lead.

[DesertFlower]

12. it pisses me off when they say

double digits. that could mean anywhere from 10 to 99.

[formercia]

14. Ultra spin

She could dry clothes.

Who needs a Maytag?

[jenmito]

17. They HAVE been saying, pretty often now, that it ended up being 9 (or 9.2). A.B. Stoddard

just said as much, that for a while it looked like she made that ten point "double digit lead" she needed, and at first everyone was reporting that it WAS, but it's actually been bumped down to 9, BUT the story's "already out there" so the desired effect worked. :eyes:

[Yael]

19. Is that the final number? 9.2?

LOL!

[Barack_America]

29. It will be less than that. 40 precincts in Philly are still out.

I'm trying to find out if these are actual machines or provisional ballots too.

If those are machines alone and don't include provisionals, which The Committee of Seventy is suggesting, the final number will creep down to 8% for sure.

[Writer]

20. Recommend my post if you feel like laughing about all of this.

:rofl:

[FedoraLV]

21. Mmm, arithmetic /nt

[Texas Hill Country]

22. you guys are so friggin petty... its getting funny.

if he is "the nominee" as you say, relax and stop whining. let it play out.

[jgraz]

23. Yeah, who cares about the truth? Get over it!

Did I mention that Hillary Clinton *approximately* killed Vince Foster?

[hisownpetard]

44. Yeah, and Bill made $999 million on the side (or some other three digits like that).

:hi:

[Politicalboi]

64. Here's a list of other

Suspicious deaths among (Friends) of the Clintons

http://www.middleeast.org/forum/fb-public/1/4948.shtml

[Truth2Tell]

86. Hillary Clinton didn't kill Vince Foster...

...as far as I know.

[jgraz]

88. I'm pretty sure she threw her bookbag at him.

[JVS]

24. Your side is spinning a PA achievement that you didn't actually achieve.

Of course when your candidate lies so much, it's no surprise to add one more.

[Barack_America]

25. Math is inherently sexist. Therefore, she's giving herself a handicap of 0.3...

I don't see anything wrong with that.

;)

[BalancedGoat]

42. I've been told something like that before.

(to paraphrase) "Logic is a patriarchal construct and as such has no place on a feminist message board"

[AtomicKitten]

26. K&R

:hi:

[City Lights]

27. Well, Hillary did say she was never good at math.

Fuzzy math roolz!

Recommended.

[BzaDem]

28. This whinefest really takes the cake for the entire election season.

[Kurovski]

33. How do you figure?

You don't think all the cracks about the math skills, honesty, and blindness lobbed at Clinton's supporters is reinforced by this?

If not, please explain why it isn't.

[liberalcommontater]

66. Amen, she didn't get to 10, well she lost then, right?

[On the Road]

30. 9%, 9.2%, 9.17% Are All Correct

10% is not.

[bobbert]

31. Not idiotic, just a little lazy. Defending that it was a 10 pt win, now that's idiotic

[mistertrickster]

32. I believe you. But where is the link to show 9.2? I calculated it using

the numbers of the popular vote at the CNN site, and I got 55 to 45 percent, the same as they did . . .

[chknltl]

59. Here, redo your math using unspun data from PA's official returns

http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/

When using the actual returns to do the math yourself one quickly comes up with different results than MSM. One can only conclude the MSM has spun things in Senator Clinton's favor.

[endarkenment]

34. She won Texas too! Except of course for the delegates.

The delegate allotment for Pennsylvania still has not been released. Not only was 9the new 10, but she may not even get the 9 delegates that were being projected. The media appears to have pre-determined that it was a double digit victory, and so it was. And so it goes.

[Norrin Radd]

35. kr

[Diane R]

36. Those of us with triple digit IQs know she got a single digit, not double digits.

It's all in attempting to pretend she got 'double digits'. She didn't.

[EffieBlack]

37. While it wouldn't matter in other contexts, given that 10% was set as the threshold, the difference

matters.

If a student must get a score of 100% in order to raise their GPA high enough to graduate a score of 92% - while it's a passing grade and even if it is higher than anyone else's score - doesn't cut it.

[wisteria]

38. The caption from MSNBC this morning read "Clinton won Pa by almost 10 pts.

No MSNBC, it wasn't nearly 10 pts it was 9.2 closer to 9 pts than 10.

[Android3.14]

39. Just for the mathematical record

Rounding depends on the place-value to which a person is rounding.

Clinton got her 10 percent if she is rounding to the nearest 10.
She got 9 percent if we round to the nearest 1's place.

However, given that the bar was set by our corporate masters as double-digit (operative word is digit, as opposed to, say, tens of points), then it only makes sense to round her win to 9 percent. If she had made a 16.3-percent lead, I doubt she would be calling it a 20 percent win. That would just be beyond belief. No one would twist facts like that...oh, wait...I forgot...we are talking about Sniper Babe.

[Android3.14]

95. Under this logic, a 5.0001 win would have been "double-digit"

Keeee-rist.

[Unbowed]

41. Just like they are still saying she won Texas.

BS.

[jenmito]

43. Well, I emailed MSNBC and CNN about that and how the map should be striped since Obama won

by delegates, and I've now seen TX striped on BOTH channels after that. I wonder if I had anything to do with that! :)

[Unbowed]

48. Good for you! They have been discounting the caucuses.

Another thing that ticks me off is that caucus states don't even count the votes of the people participating in the caucuses. I'm not sure if that applies to all caucus states, but I'm pretty sure it does to most of them.

So you don't get to count the popular vote at all in those states, but you have Hillary Clinton mouthing off about popular vote in MICHIGAN. What about all the voters in the caucus states who will be disenfranchised if their vote isn't counted. Popular vote doesn't include them because it isn't counted. She doesn't give a damn about all those voters but wants the votes counted in a state where she was the only one on the ballot. What a piece of work that Clinton is.

Edit: Texas isn't one of the caucus states. They are a hybrid of vote & caucus. Their caucus has been largely discounted in media opinion though.

[juajen]

51. That's because you can't vote twice, and Texas requires that if

you vote in a caucus you have to have voted earlier in the primary. Crazy, plum crazy. It's way past time for this foolishness to end, and I hope they will do just that at the convention, including preventing anyone but democrats to vote in our primaries.

[jenmito]

58. The rules are the rules. You don't go by the popular to decide who the nominee is. You go by

delegates. And Obama's ahead with an insurmountable lead.

[Alii]

83. Why is it so difficult for people to realize....

Rules are rules. You don't change the rules after the horses have already left the starting gate. The jockeys all understood this before entering the gate.

It is the delegate count that counts. It is the delegate count that counts. That is the rules...unless of course you're a Clinton. How many times must this be repeated before it finally sinks in.

And, if people don't understand the delegate count than they surely don't understand the Electoral College. It is possible that a President can be elected without having won the popular vote.

However, Obama will win the delegate count and the popular vote. And no matter what the MSM is feeding you, IT IS OVER.

Even though a 9 or a 10 is important only as to accuracy...it was a 9...in the end, so what? IT IS STILL OVER.

Hillary, it was not double digits, it was a 9. The question is, why couldn't she, not Obama, close the deal? She started out with a 20+ point lead. Grandma's c'mon...think of your grandchildren.

[jenmito]

111. Good post!

I agree with the whole thing. Did you know she started out with a 30 point lead? You can see it here: http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2007/08/poll_hillary_way_ahead_in_pennsylvania.php

[DemVet]

99. But he won't have enough to secure the Nomination.

[jenmito]

109. Nobody's saying he will. But he has an insurmountable lead which is why HILLARY is making stuff up

about how SHE actually has the lead (which she doesn't in ANY sense of the word).

[DemVet]

122. Hey....politics is all about what you can get people to believe.

If Hillary can convince some people she has the lead, more power to her.

If Obama can convince some people he didn't know his pastor was a racist, more power to him.

[jenmito]

57. Thanks, Unbowed! Yeah-they don't even count any votes for Obama in MI nor any caucus states...

yet I've heard about 5 Hillary surrogates claim Hillary is winning with the popular vote!

[Alii]

85. It's true...

if you have a magic pencil and/or calculator. New math? No, stupidity.

If Hillary says it's true it must be true. We know, that like George Washington, she would never tell a lie. No! I did not chop down that cherry tree. And yes, modesty prevails me...there were actually snipers in Bosnia.

[jenmito]

110. Yup. Just like Rove who claimed to have "THE math" saying the Repubs. would keep Congress...

she's not stupid. She's a liar. A sneaky liar. A SMART, sneaky liar which is even more dangerous than Bush-a STUPID, sneaky liar.

[blayne]

45. I don't think it matters either way.

I can't believe this is an actual post.

What am I saying? I totally believe this is a post here,
and that it is getting all of this attention.

[BReisen]

46. Here's a link to the PA Dept. of State Results

http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=12&ElectionID=27

54.6% - 45.4% = 9.2% in my book. Of course, if you round before you subtract (which is not how I was taught to do these things), then you "could" say 55 - 45 = 10... I don't think that's really a fair representation of how we Pennsylvanians voted.

It's an unofficial tally, and shows that 1 district is still outstanding - in Philadelphia. I can't tell what part of the city since the data requires a logon and password!

[jenmito]

67. The MOST honest way to "round off" the numbers, if you don't want to do it with the final

result, would be to say 54.5%-45.5%=9% since both are so close to .5. But the example you used, which Wolf Blitzer also used today, is 100% in Hillary's favor-unfairly.

[BReisen]

74. I agree completely - sorry if I wasn't clear!

[sniffa]

49. Obama is correct when he says on the stump

that we need to invest more in math education.

[tavalon]

52. Um, she didn't win by enough

She's a dead candidate walking, but unfortunately, as long as she continues to walk, she causes damage to our party.

She needed to drop out weeks ago and her stubbornness is not winning her any friends.

[knixphan]

53. Kick for round-down

[katandmoon]

54. how fucking petty can you get

[goletian]

56. as petty as hillary clinton, claiming it as a huge win, specifically because it was doubel digits.

pure propaganda.

[Yael]

60. Math isn't petty

its sexist.

Stay on message, please.

[Kurovski]

62. .

:rofl:

Math as whore.

[goletian]

55. YEP, ITS A LIE. 9.29% doesnt round up to 10, it rounds down to 9.

[chknltl]

61. I got double digits for the MSM neocons shilling for Senator Clinton

Not sure I can flip double birds in the DU though so I'll refrain for now thank you.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

65. Big Fat Squirrel Award

[lumberjack_jeff]

114. Seconded!

It is for this noble task that the squirrel was born.

A trifecta of self-indulgence.

[thevoiceofreason]

68. Now 9.1 from the state

[Capt. America]

69. Don't forget she "won" Texas too according to Hillary...

..of course she doesn't count the caucus goers in Texas but she does count the primary votes in Michigan where she was the only one on the ballot. She truly is making herself look pathetic.

[jenmito]

72. CAMPBELL BROWN JUST ASKED IF HILLARY HAS MOMENTUM AFTER HER 9 POINT VICTORY!

That's BIG for the RW Campbell Brown on CNN!

[Major Hogwash]

98. Hahahahaha! 9 points! That's only a big difference in hockey!

Which is getting really interesting now, as we speak.
I wonder if Hillary will get put in the penalty box for high sticking Obama.

LoL

[southerncrone]

73. That's Bush/Cheney/Rove Math!

[baldguy]

75. 9.2 is almost 10

But she NEEDED 25

[dailykoff]

79. And second place is almost first.

Welcome to Clintonomics!

[minnesota_liberal]

76. Not half as idiotic as saying she leads in the popular vote

... when that's only true if she counts MI and FL.

[dailykoff]

77. 200!

A lie is a lie and Hillary is a liar.

[Hippo_Tron]

78. You're under the impression that the media wouldn't be making a big deal out of a 9 point victory

If she had won by exactly 9 they would be saying she needed to win by about 9 and she got that.

[Infinite Hope]

80. Wow! I fell asleep at 90% reporting so that's NEWS to me! GOOD news!

That's an indictment of our media. Email MSNBC and CNN!

[TK421]

81. You mean the state that doesn't matter in all of this? Why would you waste a thread on it?

:shrug:

[Infinite Hope]

82. LINK TO REPORT ERROR TO CNN

http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form6a.html?2

Flood them with comments about her win being single digits (9%) and force them by demand to begin reporting that fact accurately.

[Infinite Hope]

84. MORE IMPORTANTLY, CONTACT OBAMA'S CAMPAIGN

Also send Obama's campaign a comment requesting they have their surrogates force the narrative that Hillary won by single digits (9%). Comment to Obama's campaign here: http://my.barackobama.com/page/s/contact2

If enough people write in, they'll take notice.

[Ino]

89. 9.2 rounded up to the nomination! (nt)

[boppers]

91. floor(9.2) != ceil(9.2)

However, there's many ways to "round off". For the sake of counting 100% of the vote, we could just say she won 100% (when rounded off to the nearest hundred).

Barbie: "Math is hard!"


edit:typo. Spelling is hard!

[Liberalis]

92. I'm new but...

1,245,911 - 1,037,953 = 207,958

If you divide that by the total 2,283,864
You get, .091055334
Times that by 100 and you get, 9.105533429

Sounds like 9.1 percent to me, less you wish to round
down which would be 9% exactly.

Double digit lead my ass...

Math is a bitch...

[boppers]

93. We see this in programming all the time,

http://us2.php.net/manual/en/function.ceil.php

[Igetnocards]

94. quit yer Bitchin

You all sound like a bunch of four year olds who are about to have their ball taken away from them. Get ready and get used to it!

[Android3.14]

96. Under this logic, a 5.000001 lead would be "double digit"

Keeee-rist.

[happygoluckytoyou]

100. even bush knows that 9.2 is almost 50%

[IronLionZion]

101. Overall Clinton is running in second place, but Obama is running next to last!

I'd be happy if they even said 10 points but they don't. They say she won by double digits.

[Deep13]

105. Whether it is 9, 9.2 or 10, Obama still lost. nt

[LibDemAlways]

118. Thank you. I'm supporting no one right now (was with

Edwards), but this nit-picking over percentages is ridiculous. More Pennsylvania voters chose Hillary. That's a fact that some people on this board apparently can't handle.

[Moochy]

106. Math is Hard

[pattmarty]

107. Jesus Christ, it ain't a big fucking deal. If that's all we got to bitch.....

....about some of us better "get a life".

[BlooInBloo]

112. It's certainly not all. It's more about the principle of refusing to all Clinton supporters..

... to get away with flat-out lying any more. They've lied far too much, and we're digging in our heels on this one.

That's what I take the brou-ha-ha to be about, at least.

[Stevepol]

108. When the vote is counted by unverifiable, paperless DREs, it's NEW MATH.

Any statistics based on data that is totally speculative is just an exercise in illusions, like playing computer football in a submarine off the coast of Tahiti when the game is being played in New York City and then expecting the plays in the two games to have some relationship to one another.

[ihavenobias]

113. True n/t

[Ganja Ninja]

115. She lost ground the longer it went on.

She was at 20 points and she ended up with 9.2.

[lumberjack_jeff]

116. Yay! We lost by 9.2%! n/t

[LynneSin]

117. It's no different then when the media says "Tens of Thousands of Protestors"

I've been to enough protests in DC and NYC to say that clearly more than "Tens of Thousands" of people are at these things. "Tens of Thousands" to me means there was, at tops, 100k folks that showed up. The term that should be used is "Hundreds of Thousands" which better reprsents the 200K-750k folks that have shown up to the major ones

[NeedleCast]

119. Doesn't Really Matter

Relax.

[Awsi Dooger]

121. It's more idiotic to claim Obama faced a 20-25 point deficit

Obama supporters must have been hit in the head by one, or more, of Hillary's moving goal posts, if they actually believe that.

Hillary's demographic edge in Pennsylvania was very real, and some Obama supporters here were hilarious when they tried to pretend it wouldn't be decisive. But the realities of a 9/1 split in the Philadelphia area made a 20-25 point gap impossible. You simply can't get there, if you know the state at all, and don't rely solely on polls.

The burden to a 20-25 point win is exponentially more than most people want to accept. She would have needed 80/20 splits in demographics that never vote in that type of agreement.