Why the disdain for older white people and uneducated whites on DU?

[Maddy McCall]

Why do some DUers have no problem with referring to uneducated, blue-collar whites who support Hillary as "white trash?" Why the loathing for "older white people," especially older white women?

These Democratic voters that you demean were once young and enthusiastic for the candidates they supported, just like you. Many protested the Vietnam War, fought for ERA, saw Reagan as the snake he was, and worked very diligently within our party to elect Democrats from the local level to the national level. Some of these "old white women" were once young, idealistic girls who came to the South during Freedom Summer to fight institutionalized segregation, to help blacks secure the vote.

Why do you hate them so?

I'm really sad to see people cheer on the stratification of the Democratic Party, by placing working-class people somehow beneath those of us who might earn a little more than them, of have a little more education than them.

As for "white trash," it's a term used by people ignorant of history. Did you know that, at least in the South, "white trash" were tenant farmers looked down upon by the planter class. Are we wanting to establish ourselves as elitists who have scorn for blue-collar workers? For working-class people?

When we talk about the economy and making a better life for Americans, it is working-class people's plight that is most mentioned on the campaign trail. So it's ok to USE them to make a point, and then HATE them when we don't need them?

If you're one of the people who uses this term at DU, I'd like to hear your justification for it.

There's more to who we are than the here and now. We all have a history. Most Democrats have a history of working for change. None are worthy of the scorn that is heaped on them at DU.

[Ian David]

1. Agreed. And thanks for the history lesson. n/t

[TomInTib]

2. Damn. I am old, white, AND uneducated.

Guess I'm pretty much screwed, 'round here.

[Maddy McCall]

3. I love ya, Tom.

:hug:

[TomInTib]

7. By the way....

Check your Inbox.

And I love ya, too, Maddy.
T.

[Occam Bandage]

8. Of course. He's a hero.

[comradebillyboy]

194. I am afraid you are correct sir

the more youthful element on the board, some of whom lack much in the way of life experience, have little use for us old farts who have been around the block a few times and look for substance rather than style.

[Barrymores Ghost]

286. Just curious...

Does "substance" sell out to Fox News and Rush Limbaugh?

Please, help me out here.

[muffin1]

230. With reason...

didn't you just give props to an admitted racist on another thread?

[CTyankee]

4. Older white woman here.

I posted earlier today on the question of the youth vote and got interesting results. I guess today is the day for searching for answers to electoral type issues.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3200573 discusses the youth vote...

[Arkansas Granny]

104. It's difficult to discuss the youth vote around here without touching some nerves.

I have no problem with young voters standing up and voting for their beliefs. However, with Obama's recent rise to near rock star status, I am very concerned that the youth will help select a nominee for our party, but won't be around in sufficient numbers for the GE to elect him as President. Historically, young voters show up at the polls in smaller percentages than any other age group. I don't mean that to criticize anyone, just stating a fact.

[CTyankee]

217. Did you see my post? It has some elaboration on this point.

My point is that we Dems just might be unrealistic about our expectations for the so-called "youth vote." For many reasons, they just might not be a reliable voting bloc for us. WE have to face that and not yell at them -- hey, it comes with the territory of geographic mobilility, no family obligations, etc. -- and just deal with it. People get grooved into voting the older they get -- home mortgage, kids, job, -- well, we know, don't we?

Well, your prediction might be the case. I want to think that we have progressed to a less race/gender problem in our candidacy. But I just don't know...after all these years in Dem political campaigns, I just don't know...

I wish I did.

[earthlover]

241. That is history! The present reality is..fact...Obama gets the young voters to the polls!

Other candidates did not. Obama continues to do so.

Another plus for Obama. He is able to get voters to vote who historically have not voted.

Duh...it is called EXPANDING OUR BASE!

[nachoproblem]

271. But how is that supposed to be a concern

if young people supposedly account for so much of Obama's support? If young people are less likely to show up in the GE and yet there are enough of them turning out to put Obama ahead in popular votes, does that mean that in the GE, even fewer of the older voters will turn out? I doubt it, but why would we assume the young crowd would turn out in such numbers for a primary if they were just going to flake off come November? If they historically care so little for the GE then why would they be all jazzed about an election that's not even "the real thing" in the first place?

Moreover, do we also assume that if the candidate more popular with the young Democrats is selected, the older Democrats would be less likely to turn out and vote for the Democratic candidate in the GE? If they are so much more motivated to turn out than the young voters, they would have to be mightily displeased with that candidate in order to go against what we assume is their likely inclination to get out and vote. At least that's what seems to be implied by the concern that young-voter support would cost him in the General Election.

I've seen the Obama camp accused of being any number of weird things, a cult, a rockstar following, etc. But "Ding-Dong Ditch" has got to be a new one.

[Blue State Bandit]

283. I see your point, but...

In the past, not since Vietnam, has their lives depended on their votes.

They, we are activated. A fire has been light under the asses of the youth vote.

The threat of draft.

[SeaLyons]

Bravo!!!

Well Done, Maddy.

"They know not what they say".

:applause:

[Butch350]

5. Why NOT Ask The...

...Older white people and uneducated whites on DU about their fricken Disdain? And why they have it - it would be more
interesting than this rehashed smack your spreading. Oh the poor older and uneducated people - poor babies.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mags]

37. we are not, but that is a wonderful compliment. Thank you.

[DemVet]

50. Agreed. You both are tops in my book.

[Mags]

71. Thank you, DemVet, so are you.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mags]

You've only been here 1 month. You my dear are such a rookie, kinda like BO

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mags]

85. just telling you what you are acting like. If you can't take the heat, well, leave.

[Name removed]

92. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

138. You're A Real Tough Fella

You should take your internet cowboy routine to some sports or gun sites where the big boys play

Yahoo!!!

[Dr.Phool]

321. Looks like a pizza party going on in this thread.

The Mods put them on ignore, so you don't have to.

[ScarletSniper]

38. lmao

[DemocratSinceBirth]

150. Calling People "Tools" On The Net Is Funny

You're easily amused...

[Scout]

182. you know what they say....

"Simple minds are simply amused."

[RaleighNCDUer]

62. And what race is that?

Or are you suggesting that only one race supports Obama?

Isn't that a FUCKING RACIST assumption?

BTW, it is not Obama that is getting beaten. A LOT.

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maddy McCall]

108. How melodramatic.

:eyes:

Oh, and telling someone that you're alerting on them breaks DU's rules.

[terrell9584]

39. not everyone gets the oppurtunity to get a higher education in this country

if you live in a poor rural area in this country, your chances of going to college are slim. Education money is diverted to the cities and suburbs then within metropolitan school systems, the money is further diverted for political reasons.

Not everyone gets the chance to get a postdoctoral education, because many people just can't afford it.

[ronnykmarshall]

176. Or have to work full time.

My parents divorced and my mom basically had to support my brother and I. My dad's business wasn't doing well and he couldn't send alimony after I turned 19, plus I was 16 when they divorced so he was only required to send child support until I was 18, which he did. There was a time when we was sending more than what was in the divorce settlement. But like I said, his business went bad.

After I graduated, I had to go to work. Period. I had to work full time so I could get a car and help out my mom. So I never had the time or could afford to go to college.

But I managed to work hard, get experience and skills, move to San Francisco where it was a struggle but worth it just to live in that beautiful city for 15 years.

Many times when I was trying to make ends meet, my mom would many times break down in tears and say how much she wished she would have put my brother and I through college. But that's life, right?

I've busted my ass off all my life. I sure as hell don't consider myself less "educated" than those who look down their noses at the working class. Fuck 'em!

[madmom]

317. Life experiences in many cases teaches us much more than school

[ladywnch]

358. you don't have to have a college degree to be educated

my father never even graduated high school. He was raised on a dairy farm in rural PA and attended a one room school house, BUT he started his own business, and READ...a lot. He listened..... a lot. He used his brain to reason with. He CHOSE to continue to learn and today, I'd put him up against any college grad in a conversation. He has an excellent vocabulary and a sharp mind even at 82 years old. Being/remaining educated is a choice. The african american, Vivien T. Thomas, who helped develope the treatment for blue babies and went on to become a professor at John's Hopkins didn't have a college degree. He had to drop out after, I believe, his first year. But he CHOSE to continue to learn. He was from a poor family too.

People today are too content to veg out infront of 'reality tv' or video games rather than develope and expand their minds.

Learning and growing as a human being is a choice.

[Name removed]

173. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[amandabeech]

219. That would be "rehashed smack YOU'RE spreading."

An old white lady sends you love and kisses.

Now, go do your English homework.

[Ronnie]

221. I always wonder about people who make fun of older people.

Don't they expect to be older some day?

[JDPriestly]

275. Age discrimination in the workplace in particular is so common

that people don't even recognize when it glares blatantly in their faces. This is particularly true in professions (other than medicine). And, by the way, the number of ageist posts I have seen on DU just disgusts me.

I am an Edwards supporter. At this point I am prepared to vote for either Obama or Hillary. Obama's stance on Social Security, and his reliance on extremely young voters, many of whom will be away at college when it is time to vote in November and therefore not voting really worry me.

Does Obama really care about or even understand the issues that fact the elderly and the baby boomers reaching retirement age? I haven't seen much concern on his part about the issues of the elderly. I wonder if he and his supporters understand how important the struggle against age discrimination will be in the next few years. Once a person in his or her early 60s leaves the workforce, it is very hard for the person to re-enter.

Even people in their 50s are forced out of jobs due to their age.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/24/washington/24scotus.html?ref=us

[LiberalFighter]

345. Of course not! They are smarter than us older folks!

They also think they have all the answers.

They also think it can happen overnite.

[Andromeda]

280. You give assholes a bad name.

It must hurt to be inferior.

[lumberjack_jeff]

333. I was going to respond to him

But you said it better.

[JoFerret]

365. What disdain is that then?

Did someone mention naivety or inexperience as a factor or something?

[LisaM]

6. Very good post.

I agree with all you've said.

[newcriminal]

9. How old is old?

And how uneducated do you have to be to be uneducated? I don't need to ask about the white part.

[rug]

95. 37.

[Lannigan]

139. Oh snap, I'm days away from 38...

I'd better hurry up and act all youthful in the time I have remaining.

:rofl: :rofl:

[Occam Bandage]

10. Probably because we're racist elitists. We may also be terrorists.

[Mags]

17. Thanks for being honest.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[xmas74]

91. Take a deep breath.

Not everyone here is out to get you, no matter what you think.

Calmly speak to your fellow Dems and they will speak back to you in a calm manner.

[haymakeragain]

103. Save it.

.

[xmas74]

211. You'll never make it past the primary season

with that nasty attitude. You'll burn out in a few more weeks and then boardicide in what you think is a blaze of glory, but will actually be made fun of for days and weeks to come. It happens quite often on DU so take my advice.

Just calm down and go with it. No reason to get hateful. Make a friend or two on the boards.

If this forum is causing so much hatred then it's already time to take a break. Go outside, find a tree to sit under and read a book. Once you've calmed down a bit, maybe found something besides the primary to talk about please come back and post about it in the appropriate forum. (The book you read, strange weather, the lack of trees in your area-anything besides the primary.) Learning to connect with others, even those who do not agree with you all the time, is "a good thing".

Look, we all need a break from here. I make myself take breaks for a week at a time every three months or else I'd forget that there is an entire world that isn't DU. Try it sometime.

[Alcibiades]

258. I agree

And have said the same thing to other folks here. Let's not forget who our real political opponents are. Let's not bicker about who embittered whom or insulted what group of people. I've seen a lot of ignorant posts from all comers. As an Edwards supporter who wound up choosing Obama, I probably bristle more at some of the Clinton supporters' posts, but there has been enough to go around.

Enough is enough of this. And that includes this flamebait OP.

[gateley]

11. Excellent post, Maddy! Recommend! nt

[Maddy McCall]

14. Thank you.

:hug:

[MyNameGoesHere]

12. Well that is easy it's all about

Unity, Change and hope. That is the mantra of the candidate of Unity, hope and change see.

[amelia]

209. K&R

[RaleighNCDUer]

13. Strawman.

Just like the "calling Hillary names" posts, a Hillary fan takes one troll post and decrys the entire Obama camp's attitude, which is then picked up by all the other Hill fans, and none of them really know what the first one was talking about.

Faux outrage, meant to paint Obama supporters as elitists. Cuz that's all you got left.

[Maddy McCall]

22. I didn't mention Obama in this post.

You're trying to create strawmen where there are none.

I mention the people at DU who feel the necessity to insult old white people or working-class people. I don't care whose camp they're in. Anyone who does this does not have the best interest of our party at mind.

[RaleighNCDUer]

55. Bullshit. We are not stupid.

For the last year Hillary has been touting older whites and working class whites as her prime demographic. Any posted that suggest oppostion to that demographic is an obvious slap at the candidate that does NOT tout that demographic.

You are implying by a strawman argument that Obama or his follower do not respect a large segment of the Democratic party - by doing so YOU are disrepecting the Obama camp.

but of course, that's nothing new for you.

Welcome to IGNORE.

[Maddy McCall]

57. I'll gladly accept being put on your ignore.

I'd rather discuss topics with people who don't let emotion get in the way of reason. You seem incapable of doing that.

[QC]

97. Welcome to ignore!!!!!11!11!1 LOL!

[PetraPooh]

214. I agree that is what she's doing; AND I'm old, white, woman, and not

highly educated as I had to quit college early to work. So I see this argument as being full of garbage, because I see many white, lesser educated folks of both sexes being very strongly favoring Obama.

[susankh4]

67. This is something I have seen more and more of...

anyone who says something positive about Hillary, or defends her, is automatically assumed to be bashing Barack. What gives with that?

[haymakeragain]

76. Don't be obtuse,

it's transparent and unbecoming.

[Barrymores Ghost]

290. Maddy's made a career of it.

Where have YOU been?

[Straight Shooter]

346. You don't know Maddy.

She's a long-time DU'er and a valuable contributor. Where have YOU been all these years she's been on DU?

[shayes51]

16. Because they are not Obama's base.

Just that simple.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Frustratedlady]

19. Thanks, Maddy!

You pretty much covered it all. We may be old, but we aren't dead. Hang in there!

[Dr Fate]

20. I'm concerned over any voters who can be fooled into believing that ANY DEM is a "racist terrorist."

I dont hate them, I just worry that if Hillary can swing them with lies, distortions and race-baiting associations, McCain will have no problem getting them back on *his* side with similar tactics and issues.

They dont call them "swing voters" for nothing.

While they may vote in the primaries- nothing has convinced me that McCain cant EASILY sway them back with even more lies, race-baiting and media distortions.

Not a problem but just an observation-Even if these "swing voters" stay in our camp, they are the least likey people to actually join a campaign effort. I'm sure they expect people like me to go out and do the work for who ever they say they like this week.

And before anyone tries to distort my points- I'm talking about swing voters- not the active & loyal DEMS.

[enigmatic]

21. I might as well say it here

I've been kicking it around for the last couple of months, but the last couple of days here have convinced me that I can't take this place anymore; I'm outta here. This was supposed to be my last election to vote before I became a Canadian citizen; I'll still vote for whoever gets the Democratic nomination, but any joy at getting a Democratic President has been pretty much destroyed by the mob rules and shit flinging at those who don't submit to who the Mob endorses. This should be an historic time, but thanks to the hate-fest, I don't care anymore.

I'm becoming a Canadian citizen later this year, and I'm very proud of that and the party (NDP) I've aligned myself with to work with in the political process. I need to concentrate my energies on that; I feel much more at home and happy doing that than what I'm seeing here. I've been here 4 years, and it's enough for me.

I always liked you Maddy, even when we didn't agree. Hang in there, and keep fighting for your candidate, even when the Mob surrounds you w/ bile. You're one of the best on DU, and I hope (and wish)everybody here would see that.

[Maddy McCall]

25. Not you!

Don't leave!

I'm in tears reading this. YOUR are one of the best here. DU will suffer from your absence.

:cry: :loveya:

[ronnykmarshall]

183. That was so wonderful, thank you for posting that.

And how exciting for you to become a Canadian. You can't have duel?

[xmas74]

218. I used to enjoy reading your late night posts.

You're not the only person to leave DU in the past few months because of the mob mentality.

[emilyg]

234. Good wishes.

I'll miss you.

[GoldieAZ49]

23. It does show who is include in the 'unity, hope and change' planned

by the Obama Nation.

I for one am glad the boomer generation is the largest generation with a much larger record of voter turnout.

[democrattotheend]

24. I agree 100%, but it goes both ways

I have noticed even more disdain for young voters and so-called "Latte Liberals" on this board for months. It's only in recent weeks that I have seen so much contempt for uneducated blue collar whites and seniors.

[Dr Fate]

32. Good point- I've seen disdain for young folks on this board too.

The fact that everything sucks is the fault of young people, not the people who handed us this state of affairs.

THAT is why it is okay to make fun of young people, and why in turn, we must revere those who's "experience" got this country to where it is right now!

But seriously- good point- it swings both ways.

And no- I dont really believe that all the old folks are responisible for what has happend in the last 50 years- I'm just saying it certainly isnt young Obama supporters who set things up as they now stand...

Me? I like young folks and old folks- my problem is with fickle "swing voters" who are easily lied to.

[Raejeanowl]

198. I Would Never Blame Youth For The State Of The Nation

Isn't that obviously ridiculous?

On the other hand, I don't credit them with experience of the political process, truly independent thought, or a great deal of discernment in general. It's too easy for many first-time Presidential voters to get naively excited, be pressured by fashion or fad, and not have a clue about what they're buying into (think new car, new job, new romance); and that cuts both ways.

[redqueen]

47. Yup... and the disdain for the youth vote is aired in the M$M, too.

Unreliable, you know.

[murielm99]

123. I have only seen one Clinton supporter use the phrase

"Latte Liberal," and that person was a newbie who was corrected very quickly. Most of the posters who use it are Obama supporters who are decrying those who use it against them.

The same is true of many of the other so-called insults. It seems to me that the Obama supporters pick a new so-called slur every few days and post numerous threads about how everyone is picking on them. At the same time, they usually pick a new insult for Clinton and beat that to death, too.

On the other hand, insults against boomers have been going on here for months. I think that is very silly, because every time we have an age poll here, it shows that the percentage of older DUers is quite large.

I was quite willing to accept Obama as the nominee if that happened. But the nastiness I have seen here and in real life has made me work that much harder for Clinton. I know I am not the only one who feels that way. Thanks for all the unity and hope.

[Bake]

179. I've used "latte liberal" several times, when it fits.

And when it fits is when somebody who has never done a serious day's work in his/her life looks down on the working class Joe and Jane that bust their asses to get by in this economy.

And I'm sure I'll use it again.

Bake

[Two Americas]

202. exactly right

By the way, there have been about a dozen great posts by you recently and I haven't had a chance to thank you for them. I appreciate your input here.

The only way I ever hear about these supposed attacks on Obama by Clinton supporters is from the Obama supporters themselves. I see several threads and hundreds of posts decrying the insults they claim to be enduring, but very rarely do I see the actual insults. Odd thing there - if you want to keep informed about the dirt on Obama, look to the Obama supporters. There are long threads with nothing but Obama supporters posting, endlessly repeating the alleged smears against their idol. Each alleged attack on Obama is then used to justify hundreds of attacks on not just Clinton, but all Clinton supporters, and also all who dare to express any reservations about the Obama phenomenon. That seems to me to be part of a pattern - an inside out upside down world people are creating for themselves. Almost every day I see misbehavior justified with "she started it!" or "she asked for it!" or "she had it coming!" The moral depravity of that should be obvious, I would think.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

302. I am glad somebody else noticed...

...too. That is about as succinct of a description as I have seen concerning this phenomena occuring on DU the past few months.

[emilyg]

235. You're not the only one.

[Pacifist Patriot]

313. DU Google "latte liberal" and you get 1,220 returns here.

More than one, but I'm guessing that's a pretty small percentage when compared to overall number of posts. :)

This subthread made me curious so I DU Googled it since it's an easy phrase to search for as opposed to finding disdain for older or younger people to weigh them against one another.

[Two Americas]

363. sure

What I see happening is that one, or at most a few, people make some critical remark about Obama - sometimes maliciously - and then we have hundreds and hundreds of posts by Obama supporters complaining about it, and using that alleged offense by "them" - the enemies, the outsiders - as a justification for being malicious and attacking people themselves.

[Vattel]

299. the problem with latte liberals

is that they don't drink cappucinos instead of lattes. I'm much too elitist to drink a latte.

[Tom Rinaldo]

26. I'll be 59 this summer. I'm white,

My parents were solidly working class. Neither ever got high school diplomas.

And although I have directed non profit human service agencies on both coasts I never quite completed getting a college degree. I should also add that while I am a home owner (with a mortgage) I am far from rich today.

So I could be cosidered working class, under educated, old poor and white.

But aside from being male I am one of the people you describe in your second paragragh.

[Maddy McCall]

29. And it really angers me to see....

anyone at this progressive website pretend that you are somehow inferior as a Democrat to them.

You're a DU treasure, Tom. I truly hope that you don't leave DU in frustration. You contribute so much.

:hug:

[Tom Rinaldo]

44. I'm not going anywhere Maddy

Don't cha worry about that. I don't need external validation. I come from solid "Question Authority" roots, and though I wouldn't really call myself a traditional practicing Christian, I always liked that line about camels and the eye of a needle.

Thanks.

[Maddy McCall]

54. I like that line, too...

and the one about the meek inheriting the earth.

[Hardrada]

27. There seems to be a dislike for Christians too.

If not overt then usually right under the surface.

[JDPriestly]

278. It is pretty difficult to dislike a true Christian.

But since the rise of the so-called "Christian right," there are a lot of phony Christians who give a bad name to all Christians.

For example, our current president claims to be a "Christian," but I do not consider someone who uses or condones the use of torture to be a Christian. I do not think that Christ would have used or condoned torture. So how can anyone claim to be a Christian and still use or condone torture?

I don't think that anyone dislikes true Christians, people who sincerely try to live according to the teachings of Jesus. It's the false Christians that people dislike. Unless you are using or condoning torture and other unChristian conduct, don't take the criticisms personally.

[femrap]

351. If someone says they are

Christian, I ask if they voted for W....that tells me what kind of Christian.

[glowing]

28. Well, I think the older woman voter thing is because really.. they would

like to see a woman in the White House before they go. Also, her healthcare plan is much better and is more likely to fit their needs better than Obama's.. I really wish he'd think otherwise and encompass all Americans.. that is and has been a Progressive Democratic issue we've been trying to strive for and have not had one ass hat clown in congress decide to shake loose their hand from the pharma corp cookie jar long enough to pass the really needed reformation.

As for the "working-class".. WTF is this? Unless you are independantly wealthy and have servants to even feed you, everyone works. A stay at home mother is working. A starving artist is working. A lawyer is working. Well, you get the drift... Its time to band together and fight together. There are many people working in a box who would rather be enjoying a job as a farmer or construction worker but know that they will recieve a smaller pay check. There are many women who would rather stay at home and raise their children for a while or for a lifetime.. but instead are forced to slug off to a job and pay someone else to watch their children (amd with Divorce rate and the economy many mother's are forced to do this--it is no longer a choice). I think it is time we all re-evaluate what is intrinsic, what is worthwhile, and what we really value. Does anyone see the circle. The core rot of money and power has led us down this path of destruction.. wars, famine, water shortage, food shortage, energy crisis... We are all going to have to examine our lives and try and decide what is valuable to us? What is important? The M$M has been classifying all of us much too long. It is time to be the change we want to see and be. The rest will follow. If everyone panics and listens to the talking bubble heads (of whom will not see the "shortage" in their lives) tell us when to panic and what to think and who to hate, then we will create the doomsday end of times scenario they love to create for ratings. We need to work together. We need return to the simplicity of do good unto others. We can create the world we'd like to see. It is time we start doing so.

[Armstead]

30. I think you miss the point (or at least the poi nt of some of us)

Maybe I can only speak for myself, but I don;t see it as inherently criticizing those you claim. Rather it is the way the process is used to pander to the worst side of people.

I hate this slice and dice form of politics where one's votes are supposed to be solely determined by your demogreaphic. That tends to pit people against one another on counterproductive terms.

For example, Hillary's pandering to the bigoted and rigid biases that some people have against "elits" and "meetings in Sabn Francisco." That made me incredibly mad not because some people have those biases against so-called elites, but at the way Hillary was appealing to their worst instincts and perpetuating erroneous stereotypes about liberalism and Democrats.

Likewise I have immense respect for the generation of women who paved the way of feminism. (The younger ones of that are my contemporaries, and I know what they were up against.)

But I hate it when so-called feminists claim that every critical things said about Hillary is automatically sexist. Or that you can't be for the advancement of women unless you vote for Hillary.

That kind of stuff is what makes me mad. Not the circumstances people are born into.

[Maddy McCall]

48. As for your comments on Hillary and feminism...

I've seen no one here admonish anyone for misogyny against Hillary simply because they criticize her speeches or policy.

It's when they have to use the words "witch" or "cunt" or "bitch" that I start seeing sexism. It's when they criticize her for "not even being able to satisfy Bill" that I see their sexism. And I call them on it.

There have been some very misogynistic posts against Hillary at DU.

But a well-reasoned post about her speeches or political platform...or even an angry post...doesn't receive misogynistic charges.

There is a big problem at DU, and that problem is the assumption that Hillary supporters think that anyone who doesn't support her is sexist.

That's far from true. My reason for supporting her isn't her gender. I have faith in other DUers that they choose not to support her for reasons other than her gender.

I've noticed recently that a lot of false charges have eminated from Obama supporters that Hillary supporters think that not supporting Hillary means sexism. I've never seen anyone claim such.

But, at the same time, a lot of anger is being heaped on "older white women" who are just assumed to be Hillary supporters.

[tigervalentine]

65. Let's see if I have this right:

"It's when they have to use the words "witch" or "cunt" or "bitch" that I start seeing sexism."

I think I get your point. But if I call GWB a "pri*k" or a "di*k," is that also sexism? Or is it just choosing the proper term for his gender?

[Maddy McCall]

78. I'm not rehashing this topic in this thread.

Look up the definition of sexism. Then start a thread on the topic if you want to have the sexism debate.

Historically, men have not suffered economically, socially, physically at the hands of women.

[tigervalentine]

111. Well, you show me yours

and I'll show you mine (definition, that is).

[mamameow]

244. words

that's because bush is!!!!!!!

[femrap]

353. Why do you have to put a '*'

for the words prick and dick? You see those are everyday words found in the dictionary...I 'pricked' my finger on the thorn. Dick is a nickname for Richard. I've got friends I call 'dick' because that is their name.

Witch and bitch are in the dictionary and are something I wouldn't want to be called. The other word is up there with the "N" word.

I don't think white males have a word that equals the sting of the 'N' or 'C' words. But then we live in a Patriarchy and the rich white boys set the rules.

[haymakeragain]

31. How low will they go? Looks like pretty goddamned low.

What the fuck is the OP talking about? Just their next bullshit meme trying to divide the party in order to steal the nomination away from its rightful winner.

Clinton will not get enough delegates, Obama will. Stop trying to lose this election for our side please. Thanks in advance.

[Mags]

46. BO and his folk have already devided the party, you just can't see it.

[haymakeragain]

66. Divided it how, by not giving Hillary her entitlement, and actually

voting for the person they prefer? Let me make this perfectly clear, Hillarious is not entitled to the nomination just because you Hillarians say so. Apparently, a majority of us think we'd rather have Obama. Sorry.

[Mags]

72. Hey, Vote for the Pied Piper, I don't care, but you don't have to bully everyone that is not for him

[haymakeragain]

80. Project much? Don't answer that, I'll get it,

yes, very much. On a rovian scale.

[Mags]

87. How Obomish.

[haymakeragain]

96. How Hillarian. (read: transparent)

This whole thread is transparent. what, did you get the blastfax or spam this morning? what does Karl say to do next?

[Mags]

98. Karl said that all Hillary supporters are typically white trash.

[haymakeragain]

113. Wow, you just backed my thesis.

Thanks. You let the cat out of the bag. You're playing the white trash card, attempting to paint Obama supporters as eletist, haters of all things rugged and white a blue collar. Nice going.

[Mags]

158. try if you can to grow up and join the adults.

[mcollier]

228. The Mainstream Media has done a bang up job

on portraying older whites as "not ready to vote for a black president"... This is totally untrue, but as long as people by into what the media says about their perceived reality about who we are and who the candidates are, we're gonna have confused people making uninformed decisions... If you have not been told or warned that the mainstream media dumbs people down and diminishes ones analytical skills, consider yourself warned...

[golddigger]

207. Let me make this perfectly clear, Obamanius will not get the nomination

just because you Obamanarians say so. Apprarantly, a majority of us think we'd rather have Hillary. Sorry.

[emilyg]

237. I feel sorry for you.

[golddigger]

210. Rightful winner? Obama has not won anything unless he gets the #2024.

And Obama won't. So wake up. Thanks in advance.

[barack the house]

33. That is untrue I only find them quoting the stats media quote.

[PVnRT]

34. It is unjustified, but, then again

it is also unjustified to continue trashing young people and activists who support Obama. Many of us are busy protesting Iraq, fighting for abortion rights, GLBT rights and criticizing Bush at every opportunity.

[Steely_Dan]

162. Excuse Me?!

You wrote:

"it is also unjustified to continue trashing young people and activists who support Obama. Many of us are busy protesting Iraq, fighting for abortion rights, GLBT rights and criticizing Bush at every opportunity."

You mean like we did in the 60's and 70's...in the streets by the thousands? Risking our lives and futures...

As far as I'm concerned, the youth are a great disappointment. If they are so"busy" protesting, why aren't they in the streets demanding an end to this war? Perhaps they are too "busy" with their own priorities...America can wait.

Amazing.

-P

[gaspee]

357. Exactly!

You would never see middle class kids today out risking their lives and their freedom protesting.

Kent State, anyone? Freedom Riders?

The disrespect towards people who have worked their entire lives in a hostile environment (since the 80's) for Democratic Ideals turns me off faster than anything else.

I'm neither young nor old - late thirties - so don't really fit in either camp.

I do, however, notice a much more 'don't rock the boat' mentality in my nieces and nephews than in my aunts and uncles.

Can't miss work to protest, I might get arrested, I'll get a mark on my permanent record!

The conformist mentality of the middle class 20 somethings scares me and has me worried for our future. I can't even fathom how we got here, that's for sure.

[Auntie Bush]

222. Doesn't that apply to Hillary supporters too?

"Many of us are busy protesting Iraq, fighting for abortion rights, GLBT rights and criticizing Bush at every opportunity."

You guys act as if only Obama supporters were interested in doing those things. I have news for you...Hillary supporters are interested in those things too and we are also sick of what is going on in Washington and we want change too. You don't have a monopoly on wanting change. Surprise, surprise! We're Democrats too!

[H8fascistcons]

233. Doubtful Hillary will Change Anything....

How do you expect change when Hillary is all "mobbed up" with corporate lobbyist contributors. This country is turning into a Fascist empire and the very individuals and corporations who have brought this about are the very same people contributing to Hillary's campaign. Does Nafta ring a bell????

[TheWraith]

36. Why the disdain for people under 30 and black folk?

I've never seen somebody refer to blue-collar Hillary supporter as "white trash," but I have seen it said that if "kids," meaning those 18-29, can't vote "right," then we should raise the voting age to exclude them.

[Bake]

184. You obviously missed the Randi Rhodes thread ...

She called Hillary supporters "white trash" on her radio "show." The number of DUers defending her statement was, quite simply, astonishing. She wasn't talking about Hillary, she was talking about Hillary's SUPPORTERS. "White trash."

And many many DUers defended that statement. I'll let you guess which candidate they support.

I rest my case.

Bake

[murielm99]

190. Has that been at DU? Show us the link.

I have seen all kinds of references to stupid white people and scared old women on this board. Most of it has shown up after the PA primary.

Show me one reference to kids not voting right or raising the voting age.

[emilyg]

238. You missed my post on Randi.

I was sick reading some of the responses.

[PoliticalAmazon]

40. Climb down off the cross, honey. We are running out of nails here. n/t

The efficacy by which Clinton supporters can morph to martyrs based on any bit of information is truly humiliating. I have never seen a bigger bunch of pity-me whiners in my life.

This affinity for "climbing on the cross" over every little thing is what I call "Martyr-A-Robics." I don't quite get why the faux martyrs get such a hard-on over playing the martyr, but it is humiliating that they are Democrats. In stains the entire Democratic Party.

[Maddy McCall]

51. If you haven't noticed, Obama supporters and Clinton supporters in this thread...

are having a good discussion of the OP.

If you only want to start a flamewar, I suggest you back out of this thread.

Oh, and "n/t" means that you didn't type anything in the body of your message.

[MethuenProgressive]

64. "We"? You got a mouse in your pocket?

[redqueen]

41. Why the disdain for religious people? Why the disdain for whoever?

Because some people have trouble separating actions from the people. It's not limited to one group, or aimed at one group.

[spoony]

171. What's that saying, when one thinks like a hammer

everything looks like a nail, something like that? People get in GDP and just start swingin' away :P

[PoliticalAmazon]

42. Climb down off the cross, honey. We are running out of nails....

The efficacy by which Clinton supporters can morph to martyrs based on any bit of information is truly humiliating. I have never seen a bigger bunch of pity-me whiners in my life.

This affinity for "climbing on the cross" over every little thing is what I call "Martyr-A-Robics." I don't quite get why the faux martyrs get such a hard-on over playing the martyr, but it is humiliating that they are Democrats. In stains the entire Democratic Party.

[QC]

130. You thought that tired old cliché was so wise and wonderful you had to post it twice?

Strange.

[emilyg]

240. Unfortunately, we heard you the first time.

[Egnever]

43. Because it is the group most largely responsible for continuing this mess

Clinton can not win short of cheating the electorate. The only way she is even close is by adding two contests into the mix that were known to be non contenders from the start.

She is divisive has negatives nearly twice as high as her positives, will be totally trounced in a GE and is tied to not only lobbyists but increasingly the republican party for her support.

A large portion of you continuing this farce support her for no other reason than a dream of a woman president. I understand the wish to see a woman president in your lifetime but it is not going to happen this time around she has lost. She lost in so many ways its almost staggering. Her campaign has been a mess from the get go. She has proven unable to handle cash, she is becoming a huge deadbeat how many little guys does she owe money at this point. Ten million in debt sounds like a lot of screwed little people. Her campaign strategy is based on smears and innuendo. She lies without even thinking about it then blames it on things like fatigue after making her campaign about her being ready to handle the situations that come up late at night.

The list goes on and on. Unfortunately the old and uneducated have proven themselves willing to either look past all of this because of their vested interest in either electing a woman no matter what or their lingering racism.

Its a sad statement on a generation that once was considered the greatest.

[Maddy McCall]

52. I'd like to discuss your post, but it begins with a fallacy.

[Egnever]

77. thats about how i Feel about yours but it didn't stop me from telling you why

that demographic is now considered to be idiots.

[Steely_Dan]

164. How Old Are You?

Be honest.

-P

[Egnever]

195. 42 what difference does that make?

[Steely_Dan]

223. My Mistake...Sorry.

[mamameow]

247. we are the greatest

your turn will be coming sonny boy. let's see how your generation turns out. do you tell your mother, grandmother, aunts what losers their generation was? i will bet not!!!! by the way please list all of hillary's crimes and your sources.

[NatBurner]

45. iono what constitutes older around here

and i'm not white, and i'm not a woman, but i agree with u

if it's offensive, it should not be tolerated

to me, it smacks of "divide and conquer"

and being that we're all supposed to be "progressive", the amount of uncivilized discourse here on DU is a bit unsettling-

but i'm new here; maybe it's just emotion, who knows?

however, it seems our commonalities far outweigh our differences, but our differences make for better tv

we'll come together eventually, i hope...

ok i'm rambling now-

nice post tho

[On the Road]

49. Do People Actually Use the Term "White Trash" Around Here?

That should be a no-no. Very bad.

DU is a left-leaning site with a large population of younger, secular, socially liberal people. Posters tend to reinforce each other and result in a spiral of groupthink. Lots of Democrats are older, religious, and more socially conservative. This isn't the friendliest forum for those viewpoints sometimes. Sometimes you just have to shrug it off.

[Maddy McCall]

53. Yes. I see it more frequently daily.

Excellent post.

[anigbrowl]

69. And as with other things you've found offensive, you repeat it ad nauseam

I can't help noticing that I see complaints about particular terms taking up about 3x the posts that the original offending remarks did.

[Maddy McCall]

82. Attack me instead of addressing the thread-starting post.

That's fine. You have nothing to contribute to the discussion but ad hominems. Typical.

[anigbrowl]

282. No, an ad-hominem would involve impugning your personal qualities.

My objection is to your tactic or magnifying a perceived slight by repeating it over and over. A few weeks ago it was threads about 'cunt'. Today it's 'white trash'. I can't be bothered to count the other examples. It's just the politics of martyrdom, something with which I have the misfortune to be intimately familiar.

But I'll give you your ad hominem attack: you are a manipulative creep.

[lumberjack_jeff]

337. The way to stop that phenomenon is to disown it.

The person who coined the phase "ignorant white fucks and Hillary supporters" still gets tons of recommends whenever she posts a new screed.

[mamameow]

249. yes!

i have seen the hateful words towards older people, white women on this site and other sites. i have tuned them out. one commentator said we should all be rounded up and burned alive. sick! we all had better get together and support the dem winner because we are in such a mess we need all the help we can get, from young and old.

[Alcibiades]

What if you actually are white trash?

I have impeccable white trash credentials. I think it's OK for me to use the term, just as other groups use pejorative terms applied to their groups. If a rapper uses the N word, that's OK with most folks. If Jeff Foxworthy makes millions off of redneck votes, that's OK, too.

[RaleighNCDUer]

83. Only from Hillary supporters claiming that Obama supporters are

saying it.

Just like they keep saying that we call Hillary B**** and C*** - based on a couple flyby troll posts that have been tombstoned for weeks.

It's a strawman arguement, meant to foment hatred of the Obama camp, nothing more.

[ronnykmarshall]

185. Randi Rhodes used it and she was hailed !

Just like when she called Hillary and Ferraro "fucking whores".

[mamameow]

251. randi

i was in england this incident happened with randi, i was shocked. i was a big fan, called often. but calling hillary and geraldine fucking whores on air america time (she was working for air america, not on her private time.) this little epitate put her down into low class.

[ronnykmarshall]

364. Ya know it really, really hurt.

I loved her show. I called in once. Someone on DU had the pod cast from that show and sent me the clip of my call. I still have it.

[murielm99]

197. This is really difficult in the real world.

We cannot ignore one single Democratic voter. We need them.

When I go out to visit Democrats in my county, I hear the concerns of the older, more socially conservative Democrats. They do not want to be left behind. Often, they are proud of parents or grandparents who voted for FDR.

I always remind them that we are a big tent. We still stand for the common man and for working people. But women and gays are part of our constituency, too.

It really alarms me when I go into traditional Catholic Democratic neighborhoods and hear how the priests are condemning us for believing in abortion rights. They are peeling away our base in those neighborhoods.

There are others who are not secure enough to worry about ideology. Everyone else is worrying about their pensions, health care, or hanging onto their homes.

Some of the Obama supporters here need to get away from their keyboards and see what is happening in the neighborhoods. Stop crying about how we left the world in a mess for you and ruined things for YOU. Most of the ruin has come over the last eight years, and it has ruined everyone, not just you. These older voters will go to McCain if we are not careful. Dismissing them or disrespecting them is the worst thing we can do.

[Pawel K]

56. Who here has a disdain for older or uneducated people?

Are there some idiots that do? Sure. But why come out and try to stereotype this entire board with that. Most Obama supporters don't disdain the elderly or the uneducated. Just like most Hillary supporters don't think every Obama supporter is a sexist pig. There are exceptions on both sides and there is nothing you can do to change that.

But I don't understand why so many people here, mostly Hillary supporters, try to paint DU as something it isn't because they are upset at the direction the wind happens to be blowing here.

[Maddy McCall]

59. I'm certainly not stereotyping the whole board.

That's evident in my OP.

[Dr Fate]

63. The OP may be seeing disdain for swing voters who happen to be in those demographics.

If the OP had framed it that way- I might even agree.

See my above posts for my take- the problem is SWING VOTERS who are easily fooled.

My concern is if a DEM can fool them so easily, then McCain/media can do it too.

[ProSense]

60. Funny you should call out DU, but not Hillary "Screw 'em" Clinton. n/t

[MethuenProgressive]

61. Would you believe "dumb white fuck" has been used here on DU - and made it to the Greatest Page??

That's an Abomination.

[Maddy McCall]

84. Yeah. I know.

:grr:

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MethuenProgressive]

112. Yeah, you've made it clear, racist hate speech is OK with you. If you hate the target too.

So much bitterness and hate. Shame.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

Just you, Maddy.

Not all old, white, uneducated people.

[Maddy McCall]

86. Whatever that means.

:eyes:

[ronnykmarshall]

187. Attempt at being witty.

[mtnester]

294. I am disapppointed ronnyk

I thought you knew the difference between an attempt at wit and a steaming pile delivery.

:)

[Barack_America]

68. I only have disdain for people who place their personal prejudices above our country's needs.

I have disdain for anyone who won't vote for Obama because he's black and who won't vote for Hillary because she's a woman.

Do I honestly feel that these sentiments are more prevalent among older and less educated whites? Yes. And, unfortunately, I think there has been ample evidence from the primaries thus far to support this belief.

[judasdisney]

295. Old, White, Evangelical, etc -- the people who got us in this mess

I'm an older white guy who is blue collar (I'm a non-union pipefitter). There are some very understandable reasons why DUers show mistrust for older white people and (commonly bigoted) working-class people. These are the core constituents who are the Republican base.

It's the same reason Americans abroad (especially in Latin America) discover mistrust and fear of Americans. WE ARE MURDEROUS PREDATORS, not just assholes anymore.

[DemGa]

74. It's a common refrain from the Obamas - ageism

And given that tone -- It seems older people can not even expect representation from the ObamaNation - but would be dismissed and forgotten. How utterly short-sided and "light-weight" conceptually.

I don't see why they would work against their better interest.

[zabet]

k and r

:hi:

[Indenturedebtor]

75. Oh my gawd

Are you really doing this? How many posts about stupid young kool-aid drinkers, latte-liberals and the like have we heard from the other side. Keep driving that wedge. Well done.

It is a fact that younger generations here in the states are less racist. One thing we are starting to fix in this country... at least a little bit. It is also a fact that the less exposure you have to a different racial/ethnic group the more likely you are to have unfounded negative stereotypes about that group. If anyone has said that Obama has a race problem and a "muslim problem" with country folk because of the smears and right wing garbage coming out of the Hillary campaign (not just camp): that is not a smear on HRC, but a commentary of the tactics she has chosen to employ and the measurable effects that have resulted.

Stop trying to say that "They're just as bad as Hillary, so she's not so bad." That's another right wing tactic to say that Dems are just as bad as Pukes when Pukes do something disgusting.

:puke:

But yeah the fact that I have issues with my Parents generation has nothing to do with me being an Obama supporter... except that at this point he seems likely to not make quite the same mistakes and to not be quite as in bed with the people who have fucked up our country and our planet. These issues that my generation has to fix happened on the watch of your peers. It's not an Obama thing to be a little bitter about that. It's a my generation thing. And rightly so. We're pissed. Our future isn't half as bright as the one your parents left you.

But good job on the whole civil rights thing. Truly. Thank you for that.

[BlooInBloo]

79. Sweet! More white unity, poor, poor downtrodden white folks talk!

It's my favorite.

[smiley_glad_hands]

81. Why the disdain for progressives and african americans by Hill supporters on DU? eom

[Maddy McCall]

89. I'm a progressive. A liberal. I have no disdain for progressives or blacks.

[Seabiscuit]

102. Old. White. Tired. And Retired.

I guess that makes me "white trash" to some. Even though I have a doctorate degree, which I put to good humanitarian as well as financial use.

So now I'm rich.

So sue me. I can still whup your arses in court.

Or call me "white trash". That'll do just fine.

[Maddy McCall]

105. I want you on my side.

:D

[Seabiscuit]

227. You got it. Who you gonna call?

[smiley_glad_hands]

106. Then tell Hill to stop attacking progressives and stop attacking Obama for being a member

of a black church.

[Maddy McCall]

110. I'll call her right away and pass your message along to her.

[ronnykmarshall]

191. and tell her thanks for the bonus on my check.

And those steaks she sent were wonderful. Bill has sure work the BBQ and the margaritas!! He looked so cute in that apron you got him. "A Woman's Place Is in the White House"! I loved it!

[terrell9584]

126. Obama is not being attacked for being a member of a black church

Unless you are going to say that all black churches are like Wrights, which they are not. Any attack on Obama related to Wright is related to what Wright himself said, not because he happens to have a black congregation.

[smiley_glad_hands]

155. He happens to be angry at govt for the treatment he and other blacks have recieved by our govt.

To deny that there are people of color who are angry at our govt justifiably so is.........you finish the sentence.

[terrell9584]

160. and there are whites that are justifiably angry at the government

that statement can be twisted in many ways. By in large, hate groups of all races recruit from the same pool, they target the most vulnerable members of whatever group they claim to represent and then fill their head with propaganda and then send them off to do whatever.

The point is, what Wright said, had no place in a house of God. I would expect any white priest or pastor to be driven from the pulpit after making such remarks and as such, I expect the same when the preacher is black, or asian or whatever. Church is not a place for political tirades, it is a place for people to come together to worship God and to help their fellow man. (I'll point out I'm not an Evangelical, so I'm kind of cool to the whole, charismatic preaching thing anyway)

There is anger at the government, but Wright didn't say, G-D Washington, which is actually a statement that 95% of the country would agree with, he said it with the word America implying the country and therefore the inhabitants of the country, making the citizens of the country responsible for the actions of the government.

It is ok to be angry at government officials, it is not o.k. to be angry at someone because you have let that anger morph into anger at a race (and as such, holding all members of said race responsible etal)

[smiley_glad_hands]

163. You don't get to choose how people are angry at their govt.

You don't get to choose the meaning of words either, unless you are a repug or Hill supporter I guess.

[golddigger]

205. Neverwinter Nights. ..n/t

[Mags]

157. Maddy , they always call names and can't face the facts.

no discussion of anything that doesn't promote the BO

[smiley_glad_hands]

165. Facts? Facts like MI and Fl don't count?eom

[goletian]

200. if you were really a progressive, you wouldnt support the status quo candidate. - nt

[MethuenProgressive]

94. Link? I'm here a bit 4 or 5 days a week and I've never seen it.

But then, I'm a "dumb white fuck," according to an Obama supporter.
Man, three degrees, and not white... So I guess the "fuck" part wasn't hate speech?

[Name removed]

109. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MethuenProgressive]

115. "for having a black minister"

We know what you mean. Come out and say it.

[smiley_glad_hands]

117. No you tell me what I mean.

You guys are the ones attacking him for it.

[MethuenProgressive]

120. You claim someone is attacking someone for being "black" - and then back away.

Typical.

[smiley_glad_hands]

128. You can't accept the fact the there might be some anger towards our govt amongst black people. eom

[MethuenProgressive]

132. Keep backing away.

You're falling over the edge.
And, as a non-white person, I know what I know.
And what I know is, Maddy has never said what you accuse her of.

[smiley_glad_hands]

145. If you push rightwing frames and attack Obama for having an angry black minister---

You are what you are. I'm not backing away btw. Hill and her supporters do not get to make up the rules as they go.

[L0oniX]

322. It looks like "ignored" is pushing for a TS. n/t

[smiley_glad_hands]

359. For what? Calling Hill and her supporters on their BS? LOL eom

[Maddy McCall]

116. No she doesn't. Your perspective is warped.

She has never said that the problem with Wright is his race. Ever.

And the rest of your accusations are equally subjective.

[smiley_glad_hands]

119. Just as subjective as the rightwing frames that you and Hill push?--

I don't think so. You call yourself a progressive yet your candidate has been attacking Obama with the very same repug frames that they have been bashing dems with for the past thirty years.

[MethuenProgressive]

121. Smiley, take a breath and go read the DU rules, will you?

For your own sake.

[smiley_glad_hands]

131. Pfft. I don't need your condescension. eom

[MethuenProgressive]

136. Ahhh... Another poster who thinks they're "bulletproof"?

You're kidding yourselves.

[smiley_glad_hands]

141. Your kidding yourself if you think Hill has a chance in hell of winning.

I don't know what it is you think you are threatening me with, but it isn't working.

[Maddy McCall]

127. Your anger in this thread demonstrates that you somehow feel the OP is aimed at you.

Is that so? Why would you feel that way?

[smiley_glad_hands]

133. I guess I'm an angry black man trapped in a white man's body, as you would say, bitter. lol eom

[MethuenProgressive]

144. You're a white man? Trying to lecture US about how black people think and feel?

OMFG.

[smiley_glad_hands]

148. Don't presume to know me, just like Hill should have never presumed a coronation. eom

[golddigger]

220. Take your own advice and don't presume you know Hillary. eom

[smiley_glad_hands]

273. Hilliary is out there for everyone to know, she's a public official, you comment is nonesense. eom

[smiley_glad_hands]

169. The hilliary campaign: The blind leading the blind. eom

[MethuenProgressive]

125. Still no link?

Use "search"

[smiley_glad_hands]

137. Try searching clinton or hilliary.

You will find all the rightwing bs she and her supporters like you have been pushing.

[rodeodance]

90. The term "uneducated" is wrong. Most pollsters will

use the terms --with or without college degree or less educated ect ect.


uneducated implies without any formal education and is insulting.

[Maddy McCall]

107. EXCELLENT point.

Thanks for pointing this out, RD. Excellent point.

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maddy McCall]

100. Hardly. Whatever gave you that stupid idea?

[otohara]

101. If Randi Says It, It's Oaky

So I've been told.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5659551

[Saturday]

114. Recommended.

I was particularily disheartened by the cow references the other day for the older white women picketing against MSNBC. Sometimes I think mob rule gets rolling on DU and it just can't stop itself. Always wanting to one up the last poster. JMO

[Ichingcarpenter]

118. Undereducated white women didn't support the Civil Rights in the South

that came from college student activists in the north

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpages/RefArticle.aspx?refid=761580647


The opposition to the Vietnam war was not supported by
undereducated whites

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_the_Vietnam_War

The opposition to the war came from college student activists.


When you say 'many supported' in your claims of what happened in history, you should say 'few'
or the exception which is what I think you are.

[Maddy McCall]

122. I'm well aware of the history of the CRM. But there've been posts insulting "old white women" ....

with no "educated" or "uneducated" qualifier.

And there indeed were "uneducated white women"--southerners--who DID support the Civil Rights Movement.

Read up on Malva Heffner, for one.

[Ichingcarpenter]

134. That was an exception, one of the few, and you still have not provided

any historical statistical proof to your generalities, it is opinion and not fact.

[rodeodance]

151. there have been lots of subject lines and individual posts

using the term -old white women.

[MethuenProgressive]

124. I've read some college girls went around in Texas working to register AA voters.

Somewhere, I heard that.

[mamameow]

255. undereducated

white women in the south were too poor to get involved and probably had a drunken husband with a strong fist if she said anything. as far as the vietnam war, the majority of soldiers were uneducated, they were over there fighting so wealthier college students could go to college and protests.

[pecwae]

129. Rec.

[rucky]

135. Dont forget Scots.

:evilgrin:

[Maddy McCall]

142. That made me laugh.

:spank:

[depakid]

140. A lot of it is from the juvenile contingent

with low emotional IQ's.

There's quite a few of them out there- and they're not too hard to spot.

Often, they're uneducated themselves, though they like to think they are because they may have a high school degree (or perhaps a university degree) from a school whose curriculum pales in comparison to what people had to learn say, 20 years ago.

[Indenturedebtor]

196. Oh please

depakid (1000+ posts) Thu Apr-24-08 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
140. A lot of it is from the juvenile contingent
with low emotional IQ's.

There's quite a few of them out there- and they're not too hard to spot.

Often, they're uneducated themselves, though they like to think they are because they may have a high school degree (or perhaps a university degree) from a school whose curriculum pales in comparison to what people had to learn say, 20 years ago.

-----------------

DU is mostly made up of older white people, and frankly this entire thread is juvenile. There has been plenty of young and old and white and black and jewish and catholic and on and on bashing in this forum, and anyone who says otherwise is either lying or has the good sense to not spend much time in here.

And my college curriculum was more advanced than what was the norm 20 years ago. Would you care to argue based on the fact that you recieved a degree 20 years ago, and did the same coursework recently? Our public schools are screwed up because people didn't want to fund them... I paid my University VERY damn well thank you, and my assertion about the quality of my education is based on the fact that I had to learn the information of 20 years ago to understand the curriculum of today. That's how it works. They're not teaching a 1950's curriculum in 2008... though they may well be in many public highschools and the like because my parents generation elected not to foot the damn bill in the form of taxes!

Yes I am angry. Many of you here fought the horrible decisions of the last 30 years. To those that didn't fuck you very much for helping to ruin our country.

[cornermouse]

215. And yet...

When I returned to college at the age of 50, I was able to compete "very well" against much younger classmates with my antiquated education... Maybe we ain't quite as dumb as you want us to be?

[juajen]

281. Same here. This woman, 54 at the time, set the curve in each

of my classes. I had no problem with entrance exams or any coursework. We did have a more difficult curriculum in the fifties and sixties. IMHO things started to deteriorate in the seventies,and proceeded apace.

[cornermouse]

216. And yet...

When I returned to college at the age of 50, I was able to compete "very well" against much younger classmates with my antiquated education... Maybe we ain't quite as dumb as you want us to be?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

143. "Why the disdain for older white people and uneducated whites on DU?"

Because some folks here sadly think they are untermenschen...

[MethuenProgressive]

149. And perhaps even...

... Lebensunwerfes Leben.

Peace.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

153. Maybe They Will Come With A Government Program To Euthanize Them

There's always Canada...

[MethuenProgressive]

146. K&R, just for the white guy lecturing us on how black people think.

OMFG.

[Leftist Agitator]

147. Baby boomers have had their turn in the driver's seat, twice.

And in less than twenty years, this country has gone to shit. Bush bears more responsibility than Clinton, but NAFTA was a nail in the coffin, not to mention the Telecommunications act of 1996 that paved the way for media consolidation that virtually assures that the teevee news-watching public stays permanently stupid.

Oh, and then there's that 1994 Assault Weapons Ban. That did more damage to the Democratic party than anything else in the past quarter century.

Add on top of Clinton's blunders eight years of utter lunacy under * (another boomer), and you have a nation that is on the brink of total economic collapse, whether anyone wants to admit it or not.

Boomers broke the country, plain and simple. And now you'd tell me that the way out is to elect another one of these fucking regressive dinosaurs? Please. If you're trying to sell such nonsense, tell it to one of your fellow Hillarites.

:eyes:

[Steely_Dan]

167. What A Load Of Crap!

You're talking about things that happened in the 90's. I don't think that "boomers" were of the "youth" age that is being referred to in this thread. They were basically in their 40's. Don't blame all of the world's problems on the boomer generation just because those in power during the 90's made some horrible decisions.

-P

[Bake]

177. Gee, you're so right. We really fucked things up, didn't we?

We never should've ended the Vietnam War, huh. Probably shouldn't have paid for you to go to college. Or co-signed for your first car loan.

Are you still posting from your parents' basement?

By the way, isn't Obama a baby boomer too? Probably near the tail-end of the boom, but still a boomer ...

Bake

[silverojo]

152. It's about reverse racism

If anyone posted remarks like this about people of color, they'd most likely be banned, after being flamed to a crisp. It's not just a DU thing...society, as a whole, has come to believe it's OK to use racist slurs against white people, and we're just supposed to laugh it off.

For instance, I recall CNN airing a program about the illegal immigration controversy. Time and again, the Hispanics were using words like "gringo" (which is controversial, because it's often used as a racist term), and not once was the word bleeped. Imagine the outcry, though, if the N-word were used repeatedly in a CNN program!

I'm not saying that the N-word should be used...I'm saying that NO controversial words describing race should be used in any intelligent discussion.

[ShortnFiery]

154. Stop the insane spin! I'm an practicing liberal Catholic, Older White

WOMAN, Army Vet, who's 100% on The Obama Team.

That's Hill's problem. Instead of BUILDING "a team" she prefers to be the center of attention. How's that cult of personality working out for ya? :(

[Clintonista2]

159. Yuck... forgot your meds again?

[ShortnFiery]

203. What? That's all you got? Baseless personal insults?

How sad ... it must suck to be so angry and bitter?

May Peace Be With You. :-)

[Clintonista2]

206. What? Obama's health care plan doesn't cover your meds?

That's why

[Clintonista2]

156. K&R!

[Austinitis]

161. They vote against the Obamessiah.

If they went for Obama we would be hearing about how they're the best thing ever...

[goletian]

166. why the disdain for blacks, leftists, young folk and the educated among some DUers?

blacks are a block, they arent individuals. the youth is impressionable and unreliable. educated people are elitist (oh, and blacks arent included in this group, its a white thing). liberals who now do not support hillary -- the candidate that is more a part of the status quo than any candidate running, repub or dem, according to john edwards -- are just hillary haters despite having defended her for years. why the disdain, maddy?

[ronnykmarshall]

175. I love how the educated term keeps getting thrown around.

I didn't finish college. I only completed a few semesters when I was able to. But I think having worked all my life I sure as hell don't consider myself "un-educated". Nor do I consider my parents "un-educated" either. My step-dad does have a degree and is a CPA. My mom (one of those HS grads) helps him runs his business. My father was a building contractor with a high school education, one year in junior college and served in the navy. My Step-mom ran her own business for years and was very successful. Just because someone doesn't hold a college degree doesn't make them "un-educated".

There was this time I was dating this one guy that went to Stanford. We were out with some of his friends and they were telling me this story of how they met cute guy with a Stanford t-shirt on. They made some remark about how ask him "do you have that shirt because you're proud (a Stanford grad) or like the shirt". The young guy said, "I like the shirt". They just thought that was SO funny and laughed at him. I looked at them and I said, "I didn't go to college either, what's so fucking funny?". Their faces froze and they all looked like they wanted to crawl under a rock. Oh, and they also considered themselves liberal democrats. I knew this because we had also been talking politics.

Funny how little "high school educated" me could hold up a political discussion with these big ol' college fellers!!! I broke out into some Jethro Bodine sphering to impress 'em too!

There's all this talk of the Hillary supporters not be "educated" or "high school graduates" with the tone that it's presented reeks of snobbery.

FYI - I'm not saying you meant that either in your post. Just an observation overall of the tone of this race.

[ronnykmarshall]

168. There was a letter in the LA Times today.

It started with "Hillary supporters are union workers, high school educated, older women" and went on basically in so many words blabbing about the "young and hip" Obama supporters.

And THIS is the candidate that keeps talking about "Unity"?

Yeah fuck those old white broads! They and the those stupid fucks that (speaking in Thurston Howell voice) DIDN'T go to COLLEGE can "get out of the way". We all remember that lovely caterwauling call that made the top 40 a few weeks ago.

[MadHound]

170. Got any links to these sort of posts?

I'm around here a fair amount, and have yet to see the sort of post you're talking about. So if you could link to a few of these sort of posts, I'd appreciate it.

[GeorgeGist]

172. Conceit has no shame ...

no matter whose being duped.

[Political Heretic]

174. I agree with the content, well said. I disagree that this is a big issue on DU.

Rather, I suggest it is more manufactured outrage over a minority of comments by a minority of posters not even coming close to remotely reflecting the plurality of opinion on all sides here at DU.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

178. Why the disdain for the young?

Frankly, some of these older whites who were allegedly so damned progressive seem pretty eager to quash younglings like they themselves once were. Cuts both ways, really.

[Catherina]

180. There's no disdain for older white people and uneducated whites. Just bigots and racists.

Don't even try to confuse the two.

The only ones who pretend they're confused are the bigots and racists trying to blend in.

Trash is Trash. Can't help if some of that trash is White.

[CreekDog]

181. no problem with either my problem is with the unrepentantly uninformed

who peddle rumors and innuendo as truth, and when corrected, never either apologize for spreading falsehoods, never respond at all to inflammatory or untruthful posts they have made or worst of all, continually post the same or worse stuff in other OP's or other threads.

that has nothing to do with age or education, it has to do with character --or the lack thereof.

[Faygo Kid]

186. The proverbial load of crap. One of the worst posts ever at DU.

The premise is so utterly false as to be laughable, if it wasn't so contemptuous and obvious in its misuse of the very people the OPer ostensibly "defends" by swinging them as a cudgel against Barack Obama.

To imply that Obama and his supporters (like me) are somehow dismissive of struggling, older white voters is utterly without merit. I have not seen the term "white trash" used here, and if it has, I condemn it.

But to ask the incredibly stupid and insulting question, "Why the disdain for older white people and uneducated whites on DU?", as though it is a widespread phenomenon, is shameful.

This is your worst post ever. And you are being called out on it, because it is utter bullshit.

Yeah, Maddy. We all have a history. And you ought to respect that of those you cite, instead of using them in this cheap way.

[mamameow]

259. picture

what was the picture for, to show uneducated white woman? for your information that is a very familiar picture from the depression and the "dust bowl" time. a time when another repubic screwed this country.

[Faygo Kid]

315. Don't be ridiculous.

Of course I know what the picture is all about, that is why I posted it .

Dorothea Lange's portrait is a sympathetic look at hardship - unlike the original post here, which uses such a person as a political weapon to go after those who support Obama rather than Hillary.

The implication that because I support Barack Obama means I treat "older white people and uneducated whites" with disdain is personally insulting and revolting in the extreme.

Your response ain't worth squat, either.

[Cass]

188. Thanks for a great OP, Maddy!

I'm glad you spoke out about this, it has no place in a so-called progressive community.

K & R

[David Zephyr]

189. Maddy, why do Clinton supporters disdain older white people and uneducated whites?

Why did James Carville call half of Pennsylvania "Alabama"?

Why did James Carville make such a rude comment about Alabama in dismissing the folks in Pennsylvania?

Why did James Carvile say that if you "drag a $100 bill through a trailer park, you never know what sort of trash you might pick up"? What a hateful thing to say.

Why did Hillary Clinton say "fuck 'em" regarding working class conservative Democrats?

And why do Bill and Hillary Clinton and their campaign continue to inject race into the campaign as you, a Hillary supporter, are trying to do with your over the top post?

Playing the white card, Maddy?

That's pretty low.

[mamameow]

264. alabama

obviously james carville has been to alabam and you have not. they cling to their "weird" churches, revivals, holyrollers and their repubics even when it is hurting them and their children. when you live in georgia but from alabama, you keep your mouth shut, don't brag about alabama!!!

[Babel_17]

192. I'm a blue collar worker

and a member of a union that has taken dues out of my check every week (PAC) and used other union funds (my money in other words) to fund democrats and provide phone banks and other GOTV efforts. I've been massively unamused by a few posts on these boards that have used unflattering stereotypes to paint with a broad brush all blue collar workers. I suspect that many have forgotten, or never learned, just how much the blue collar unions have done for this country. Other unions too, I don't want to minimize their contributions.

When our party was at its lowest recent ebb it was blue collar union support that kept providing cash and resources that was so instrumental in keeping our party from hitting rock bottom.

But whether in a union or not, blue collar workers make an invaluable contribution to this country every day of the week. Blue collar blood has literally been shed to advance our progressive goals.

I myself am semi-notorious at work for getting into (respectful) political debates at the drop of a hat with management and municipal officials. By and large we were the ones with Gore and Kerry bumper stickers ..... I won't generalize about the socio-economic background of those on the job site who supported Bush, I'll just say their hands were uncalloused.

I'm not about to make this issue a personal mission on these boards, I just ask people to be more aware of how fundamentally wrong it is to demonize blue collar workers as a class.

[murielm99]

276. Thank you for this post.

It was very well-put and non-confrontational. You are correct. Many of today's Democrats don't know how much they owe to blue collar workers.

[Unbowed]

193. I don't have disdain for the voters, but I do have disdain for the way they are being exploited.

Older people are less comfortable with change than are younger people. That's understood. What Hillary Clinton is doing is scaring these folks in order to win votes. That's terrible.


The poor working class are also being exploited by the Clinton camp. Trying to act like she's ever been one of us is an insult and parodying what she thinks working class people are like is offensive. I was raised in a poor, working class family and we like lattes, don't make it a habit of downing shots in bars and hardly any of us have even fired a gun. We also prefer peace to war and pay more attention to issues than personalities. The stereotypes she's exploited to garner votes make me cringe. Just because you work for a living doesn't mean you're Larry the Cable Guy.

[mamameow]

268. change???

we are not comfortable with change? listen little guy, we have seen the results. we will take change but we question the results. we have lived through the korean war, vietnam and many recessions. we have seen things you have not seen yet. youth can be blind, you make good cheer leaders but when the going gets tough you go home to your parents.

[pompano]

199. I am...

an older white person. Everybody has been nice to me? :shrug:

Well, the ones that haven't ignored my sarcastic ass anyway? Now that could be about 7/8ths of the posters? I wouldn't know it? I'm happy like I got good sense. :rofl:

Anybody out there? :hi:

Hello? :hi:

Can ya hear me? :hi:
Hello...Hello :hi:

:rofl:

[doc03]

201. Well it seems most of the Obama supporters are

young and the more educated elitists. So, if you don't support Obama you are considered an uneducated old person on DU today. Well I am an old I guess (60) uneducated (high school) working man. My father was also a uneducated blue collar worker and he didn't have the money to put us through College and I didn't have the desire to go. I served in the US Army, have worked on Union jobs for last 40 years and with the exception of Reagan in 1980 always voted Democrat. In my 60 years some of the most ignorant people I have ever met were what you call (educated). An old saying I have heard is an education is a dangerous thing for some people.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

204. Why the disdain for young, more educated voters...it works both ways

[Why Syzygy]

208. I've never called ANYONE "white trash", nor would I. And I certainly can't make excuses for those

who do. It's offensive.

[knixphan]

212. Hey, how about this?

Seniors, don't diss the youngsters.

Youngsters, don't diss the seniors.

Democrats should all share disdain however, for anyone among us who's really a repub trying to sow discord.

[gsaguyCLW54]

213. Hopefully another thorough ass kicking by another incompetent republican will wake them up

[VotesForWomen]

224. it's an indication of the type of people the O-nuts are. nt

[harun]

225. Their motivation for who they vote for is usually based on fear and drinking the

kool-aid.

[kwenu]

226. We don't have disdain for all of them. Just the stupid ones.

[Gman]

229. Maddy, look at how many have no star and signed up in the last 6 months to a year

they're all disruptors that came here to cause trouble and behave in general like assholes, i.e. white trash.

[femrap]

355. I've read that PR firms

are being hired to infiltrate forums. Wouldn't be surprised if some of these posters are being paid.

[countmyvote4real]

231. I can't that I really hate either group, but sometimes

they can really annoy the shit out of me.

;)

[Name removed]

232. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Phillycat]

236. Well, aren't you a charmer...

[emilyg]

242. Hostile person.

You need anger management and a better vocabulary.

[BlueJac]

256. you need an education

[Kurovski]

239. Because old people smell funny?

Well, I do at any rate.

[ruggerson]

250. Not to me

[Kurovski]

269. But you're my doctor.

You've gotten used to it.

[earth mom]

243. The working class is the backbone of this country.

BTW-I'm not sure what thread you're referring to, but if I see it... :grr:

[anonymous171]

245. Why shouldn't some resent Bush's base?

[southerncrone]

246. This shows just how subliminally pervasive the Neocon Republican attitude

has colored our society.

It's the neocon way to put-down or denigrate those who are different from you.

We have lived with this attitude constantly being pelleted at us by MSM, fundies, & our "leaders".
It's a type of brainwashing, and it's worked.

Even Dems are adopting this way of dealing with others.

The idea of disposable people is also a neocon attitude. Women are only good for being objectified. When they are no longer "pleasing to the eye"; they are disposable.

[mzmolly]

248. Man, I'm glad I missed it Maddy.

GRRR.

[BlueJac]

252. Quit acting so uneducated!!`

You fill sorry for yourself too much. You are dead wrong. GOBAMA. I am 58 so wake up!!

[BlueJac]

253. I forgot, mediators suck sometimes

[cbayer]

254. I appreciate this Maddy.

It is very painful to be not only dismissed but denigrated.

I have been a lifelong Democrat. Everything that I believe about the Democratic party is being challenged at DU. I have clung to this party because I believed it was the party of inclusion and tolerance, the party that would stand up to bigotry and hatred whenever we saw it, the party that believed we were doing what needed to be done for those that had no voice.

Now I am an active member of a site that is flooded with exclusion and intolerance, a site that promotes bigotry and hatred, a site that does not protect the rights of or speak up for the voiceless.

I am surrounded by bullies and it is very confusing to me.

[JVS]

257. I have no idea.

[Hutzpa]

260. LIV / HMV take your pick

:shrug:

[ladywnch]

261. I'm sorry but I'm getting fed up with the notion that we have to give

special consideration, special treatment or more credence to the un/under educated. When did being intelligent become a handicap or disqualifier; the object of disdain? I'm not saying the un/under-educated be excluded from the process but it SURE AS HELL shouldn't lead the way. We have so dumbed down this country (and been content to do so) instead of requiring and helping people rise to the bar we consistently lower the bar to make everyone(artificially)feel good about themselves. I'm tired of having to apologize for being intelligent and having good critical and analytical skills. I'm tired of having to yield to the un/under educated because they are unable to comprehend facts and data, put forth weak or ill conceived arguments, don't know history or understand government and they're ignorance makes them uncomfortable.

And who was it that first attacked the "Prius driving, latte drinking, Birkenstock wearing" members of the party...attacking them for their liberal views....being out of touch.....etc? Who started this straw-man class war crap?

I don't have disdain for un/under educated people on this board, I have disdain for those who are content to STAY that way. If that makes me an elitist bitch then so be it but I'm tired of walking on eggs to be PC.

Oh, yeah, and who gave us the absurdity of PC?

So, go on, flame me.

[beltanefauve]

288. Best post yet. n/t

[billyoc]

262. I don't know why, I just do.

Dumbass.

[Infinite Hope]

263. Well, I don't have such disdain. But for those who do, uneducated whites did elect Bush twice. n/t

[RBInMaine]

265. No loathing. Not sure where you are getting this. At least not much of it.

[bridgit]

266. Rec'd, I find such trends glimpses into what is really not on but *in* the minds...

of people here at DU that continue to somehow consider themselves Lib/Pro. I didn't come from a rich, or well-to-do family and was referred to as 'white trash' having gone to university on a scholarship. And referred to similarly in HS by minorities including AA's.

I see the forms of entitlement people bestow upon themselves every day all day long IRL. It's stunning. DU is no exception. There is nothing new under this sun either,

The war in Iraq, the world coming apart at the seams, economy tanking, inflation, food shortages in the not so distant future that too many find boring & tedious to even care about...and some here still have time to talk such smack while ignoring all but what fits their itsy bitsy little cosmological model of life & entitlement in America. But hey! So long as there's clean Levi's in the drawer, and access to broadband it's all still good...

Or is it :kick:

[jillan]

267. Big K & R!!

[digidigido]

270. I actually use the term trailer trash for former President Clinton. If the shoe fits ya know

[ekwhite]

319. You realize that term is bigoted, don't you?

I happen to work with very nice intelligent people who happen to live in a trailer park because they can't afford the price of a real house in California.

One of them happens to be a young woman who is a graduate of UCSB with a degree in Chemical Engineering. Is she trailer trash? Me and my parents happened to have lived in a trailer park for a few years until we could afford a house. Does that make me trailer trash? I happen to be on the Fabian socialist side of the Democratic party.

'Trailer trash' is a demeaning term to people who are living in a trailer because it is the best they can afford.

[ekwhite]

272. You know, I spend a lot of time on DU

And I was called white trash a lot when I was young. I think I might notice if the term was used a lot around here. It looks to me as if you are setting up a straw man argument.

[smiley_glad_hands]

274. Thats all they have are straw man arguments, lies, spin, and deciet. Its the rep...I mean DLC way.

[smalll]

279. "deciet" -- You one of those "well-educated" Obamatrons? /nt

[smiley_glad_hands]

312. You one of those "elitist" Hillbots? eom

[guyanakoolaid]

277. Puh-lease. A desperate attempt to paint the woman with 100+ million in the bank as "of the people"

Because you hear one stupid Obama supporter call Hillary supporters "white trash", and Clinton knocks back a shot and talks about guns and nuking Iran, you think that suddenly makes her a populist?

It fools nobody.

[johnnydrama]

284. this is opposed

This is opposed to the young voters who are so stupid and gullible they've been fooled into voting for Obama according to Bill Clinton?

[WCGreen]

285. 'Cause they don't run as fast....

Seriously, we are all just part of a coalition we have managed to cobble together.

We might not all have the same specific needs and desires.

But I think that for most of us, the dream of an America where we can all get a fair shake and be left alone to do what we please as long as it doesn't harm other people, well what more could we all ask.

[OneBlueSky]

287. proud to be a human who happens to also be an older white male . . .

who is appalled at the pre-adolescent level of discussion that many here are engaged in . . . name calling and "gotcha!" contribute nothing to the campaign and merely demean those playing these silly games . . . it would be funny if it didn't have such a potentially negative effect on the Democrats' chances in the general election . . .

fyi, this older white male doesn't care which one wins the nomination, because neither is going to be an agent of real change if elected . . . and that's a big IF given that Republican corporations will once again be tabulating the voting results . . .

it's not who votes that counts; it's who counts the votes . . .

[Pooka Fey]

289. Maddy McCall, you are AWESOME. :-)

Great post. It's good to hear from you. :-)

[MJJP21]

291. You should be asking

You should be asking the media this question. It was the media that said that older white women were voting for Hillary in PA and that implies people that are set in their ways and not necessarily voting for the right reasons. The media again implied that "uneducated" people were voting for Hillary and again the implication is they were voting for not necessarily the best reasons. I don't fault the conclusion being from PA but where was the outrage that this condesenion should have raised. The impression I walk away with from the PA primary is that PA is a special case and can't be helped no matter how much money Barack threw at the problem. None are so blind as those who will not see and that is PA's legacy.

[Undercurrent]

292. Older, white, poor woman

I'm an old, poor (self employed silversmith), white trash woman, and I've been treated with respect here on DU.

In my opinion, many of my contemporaries look to the past, and try to hang on to their youth, their music, art, ways of thinking, and the other familiar things. This creates a certain resentment towards the up, and coming young people with their "strange" ideas, language, music etc. Just like my parents generation resented my generation.

Personally it's my philosophy to look to the future, no the past, and enjoy the new energies that young people always bring to things. Energies that I myself felt so strongly during the civil rights movement, and the anti Vietnam war protest years.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

293. K&R

where do I fit in? I am a conglomeration of all of the above.

[XanaDUer]

296. K'd & R'd

nt.

[McCamy Taylor]

297. They won't chuck it all for change, so there must be something wrong with them.

You know. They must be racists or something. And the only reason they didn't join the Republican Party with all the other racists is because they are so skank and low down that the Republicans would not have them.

I think that is what the innuendo is supposed to be.

[Thickasabrick]

298. The older white woman that was the Hillary plant and asked about

the stupid flag pin in the debate should be scorned. She is as low as Rove in my book. Anyone who uses Rovian tactics in this campaign should be scorned and coincidentally - it seems to be mostly older white people. So yes, I have disdain for them but not because they are old - they are basically republicans in democratic clothing.

[Perry Logan]

300. The older generation today are the Baby Boomers, who have always been bashed by everybody.

They have never forgiven us for refusing to go quietly to Viet Nam and die.

[AllentownJake]

301. Many of them

Voted for Regan...hence the term Regan democrats.

[greiner3]

303. I believe that you are listening to the noise;

Of some radical Dems and/or some mean spirited trolls. You say some DUs; what I see and read are 2 sides caught up in the frenzy to get their candidate elected. Of the 2 candidates, I see Hillary as being the person who throws out an insult and Obama asthe person who mostly parries it and more and more comes back with a jab of his own. Vote Democratic in 2008!

[natrat]

304. it's not older or uneducated or poor-it's stupid and gullible that's who is hatred worthy

[sybylla]

305. Hey, I come from "white trash"

And all my trashy relatives that I've talked to since the first of the year - young and old (cuz white trash has no age limit) - are voting for Obama - even the gun toting hunters. In fact, so did a lot of "white trash" in my state since Obama won my state.

So there's point two wrong with the assertion that "white trash" are voting for Hillary.

But perhaps the problem lies within the definition. None of my "white trash" relatives ever got excited about any politician. Some of them might have disagreed with Vietnam but never protested. Nor did they fight for ERA, but they weren't necessarily opposed to it. And absolutely none of them worked for a political party. These people work hard at their jobs, they play hard on weekends and they think politicians don't give a rat's ass about them. You don't need to be old to think that. Most of them are born thinking it and most politicians shamelessly prove it over and over again.

So I guess either your definition of "white trash" is way off or it's the Obama supporters who need a newer dictionary.

[Pacifist Patriot]

309. I have become more and more uncomfortable with the phrases...

"white trash" and "trailer trash" over the years. And this pretty much describes the roots and many of the branches of my family tree as well. :)

I think it is because I have become sensitive, perhaps overly so, to the underlying meanings within our language. Trash is not only something disposable, but intended to be thrown away. Something we don't want in our lives and get rid of to maintain the facade that everything is new, pretty and tidy all the time. Trash is disposed of in a dump or landfill out of sight and out of mind. I have a hard time reconciling that image with fellow human beings.

I know you do not use the phrase that way as I didn't when I used to use it. It was simply the label for a certain kind of group of people. Just thought I'd share my personal shift in thinking.

Cheers

[Pacifist Patriot]

306. Investment in identity.

Rather than being a widespread tone at DU or a sentiment shared by a majority of DUers, I frequently suspect a perceived assault on personal identity when I see threads like these. I've seen similar questions from youth, religious people, the GLBT, minorities, etc. Clearly we cannot be exhibiting general disdain for all these groups or no one would be here.

I am overly sensitive when I see comments about white people, women, religious, atheists (I'm a religious humanist member of the clergy), southerners, Floridians, parents, and home educators. These are all elements central to my sense of identity. Thus when I see what I perceive to be an insensitive, disrespectful or disparaging comment it looms larger than life and I begin to extrapolate it to being a sentiment of the community at large.

I have to remind myself that comments come from individuals, not communities. So I respond to an individual. Fortunately in a public forum such as this, my personalized response may resonate with others who sympathized with the original comment.

In addition, those who also felt disrespected or had no clue there was anything disrespectful about the original comment can learn something without feeling unfairly lumped in with a perspective with which they disagree or do not recognize.

One of our basic needs as human beings is to be respected for who we are, not what we do, who we know, etc.

"I feel disrespected when you said ________ because I am ___________. Can we talk about this?" Can open up an incredible dialogue of learning and healing.

[Independent-Voter]

308. And now, we pass the talking stick.

[Pacifist Patriot]

310. Too touchy-feely for you?

:)

[Independent-Voter]

314. A little :) I'm pretty much in the live and let live, leave your corner of the pond better than

when you found it. I'd much rather continue to be a silent partner in business efforts and endow another scholarship to our local community college. It's been the pet project of me and a couple of business partners for the last few years.

My wife and mom are currently in a "competition" to see who can get the most money raised for a local land conservation group on the sly. Mom's retired and currently kicking her butt, but my wife has an ace in the hole that she's being all hush-hush about. It may get ugly at Thanksgiving!

[Mark E. Smith]

307. I rarely post here any more

The intolerance on DU is depressing.

[IsItJustMe]

311. I support Obama and I don't use the term white trash. But that doesn't mean such a critter does not

exist. When I think of white trash, I think of bigoted white people who vote against their own interests just because they don't like black people. I think of people, who allow their ignorance and stupidity get in the way of honesty and truth.

This condition is inclusive to everyone, regardless of race.

[JAbuchan08]

316. As a younger, low income, and relatively uneducated white person

I recognize the divisive strategies targeted at poor whites in order to make us feel resentful and vote against the rest of the electorate. It can honestly be very hard not to internalize it, but I'm smarter than that and I have a hard time feeling sorry for the "white trash" who vote this way (especially as I have been a part of it my entire life)

[nvme]

318. I am part of the uneducated

I got My G E D. went to college a few years. I come from a hearty stock of uneducated people. Unfortunately Stupidity is not cured by a college degree.
My impressions of Hillary were set when she and bill were campaigning back in 92. I was understanding of her forgiving Bill's initial indiscretion. He seemed, a leader who was willing to compromise and get things done. I was apprehensive about NAFTA. I saw the seeds of The EU sprouting. I assumed that we would do something similar in order stay on the same footing. Little did I know how short-sighted we had been. I watched Tienanmen square and the lone protester in front of the tank. I saw China MFN renewed. I saw the sell out of don't ask don't tell. I saw kosovo and bosnia. (bit late but still we did something). then I watched whitewater here and there. I saw it as a witch-hunt. But somethings were troubling. I found Ken Starr to be despicable. I saw the beginning of gotcha politics. I saw paula jones. I saw monica Lewinsky. somewhere in there I asked myself why would she put up with this shit? then i saw her go for an easy seat in NY which was ripe for the taking. I saw the impeachment and i knew then why she put up with it. AMBITION. Cold Calculating ambition. "Sometimes Dolores being a bitch is all a woman has". Hillary has had to deal with a lot of shit. I hate her iraq war vote. Again very calculating.(establishes her hawk credentials). I hate her method of campaigning. I despise how she is not honoring the agreement made about FL and MI. Especially the recent release about blaming Obama for his pulling his name for Michigan's ballot. I think that is as low as you can get. I see her as extremely desperate and is willing to drag the party down to secure this nomination which she has a snowballs chance in hell of getting. Yet this tough and rough bitch keeps on going. I have a feeling she is going screw us worse on civil rights, and will pull us into another conflict. I am terrified she will electrify the Re pub base.
In spite of all my fears, I will proudly vote for this nasty low down witch. I will wear her name on my chest. I will sing it in traffic. BECAUSE SHE IS A GOD DAMNED DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE. If its OBAMA I expect no less from all you HILLARY SUPPORTERS. It is that damn important. that we all shut the fuck up about our disagreements with the platform of the nominee. It is vital that 44 be a DEM!

[Beacool]

320. Because the ones who make those remarks are usually the young.

At least I hope that they are young, otherwise their ignorance is inexcusable!!!

The people they disparage are the ones who made America a great nation. Hard working people who toiled for generations to make our country what it is today. Besides, they are the base of the Democratic party. Or do they think that our base are the very young and the upwardly mobile????

The fact that Obama can't win their support at this late stage of the game is one of the many reasons why Mccain will win if Obama were to be our nominee.

[pattmarty]

323. Hey, hey, I'm old (61) and under educated (HS dropout) and I'm......

......just to the right of Karl Marx. So for me it ain't a Hillary or Obama thing. The candidate I supported was Dennis Kucinich (last time too). Although I will vote in November for WHOEVER the Dem candidate is.

[L0oniX]

324. Lots of people who've been to college don't know jack because all they did was...

learn how to pass the tests and party. Oh and good luck on finding a job when you get out because you are over qualified for any service job and ...oh yea where did all those high paying jobs go? You better have gone in to be a lawyer or a doctor because just about anything else ain't going to get you jack. :eyes:

[suzie]

325. I remember the Vietnam war and the protests

and the anger of young people against their elders. Perhaps some have forgotten the many angry things that were said in the 60s and 70s.

And I also remember being passionate about candidates that I supported. What has surprised me most is the anger from my own--Boomer--generation directed at the young people who've come out to support Obama.

At Democratic Party meetings over the last 8 years, I've listened to lots of discussions on how to get young people involved, how to reach out to a new generation to get them to become Democrats.

Now that they are involved, the attitude from many older Democrats seems to be, "How dare you become involved...and support the wrong candidate?"

This 58 year old, former Edwards supporter is simply glad to have them come into the 'big tent' party. If they are rambunctious and sometimes say things that we'd prefer they not, well, I remember some...many of my generation being guilty of the same thing.

[bridgit]

329. welcome to du, suzie...

:) :kick:

[eboltz]

326. Simply not true...

I, for one, don't hate older or blue collar Americans. I do, however, think that their voting track record is often self-destructive (blue collar workers and seniors voted overwhelmingly for Bush and he screwed them just like everyone said he would) and seem to be more easily duped by political shenanigans (fearing a pastor) and political fear-tactics.

Also, racism is rampant in the 70+ white voting block.

So I don't hate them - I dearly love my own extended family's older folks and was once blue collar myself as are many if not most of my friends - but I don't think they tend to vote in either their best interest or in the interest of the country.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

328. I should think to wonder

if it may take as many as twenty five years for the foolishness to completely dry up? And if so what will the great divide people cling to when it,s all over?

It is indeed true that everything did not begin twenty five or thirty years ago or fourty six for tht matter.If it were not for I myself and to me what doesn,t matter ,for the life of me I cannot understand why they don.t join us ,I just don,t get it! But it,s me and it,s me and me too !

Isn,t that American tradition! oh and too much is never enough! And when your feeling down because it doesn,t go you alls way,just throw money at it because it makes you feel better! Isn,t that the time of change!

Now you got the old people reaching. And so you asked for it and now you got it.
Ten becomes twenty than thirty and so on and on.

Better to throw the money at a place where it will do some real good than it is to throw it at disinchanted children.And since they got all the answers ,they won,t be needing it!

As the saying goes,let us help!

[1trackmindGOP]

327. Because we are all CRAZY and following the GOP plan

We are doing exactly like the GOP and media outlets want us to do, divide ourselves, attack our candidates and each other...it almost makes them look sane and helps them garner support from disenchanted independents, and weak and disloyal democrats for the General election...maybe we should stop playing their game and defend our candidates and unify...that would be almost brilliant :)

[lumberjack_jeff]

335. Think about it

We have two candidates, historic in background, who have voted nearly identically as Senators. How could there have become such acrimony?

[1trackmindGOP]

339. I know when it started for me.

I think it started with one candidate suggesting that the rules be changed and started treating the opponent as a republican...a mortal enemy. I can see you are an HRC supporter and I was and Edwards then Obama supporter...I was quite okay with HRC winning the nomination until she started doing those things, at that time, I felt very angry at her and became very defensive for Obama...on occasions I laid into fellow Dems HRC supporters because they were promoting the same unfair talking points that had angered me and I felt that were very unjust...and of course this mentality continued between the supporters of both candidates and galvanized us, divided us and pitted us against each other. I am sure the GOP were laughing their tails off and they surely did their best to make it worse by encouraging their constituents to interfere in our elections. Overall I never wanted to fight with my Dem colleagues, I wanted a peaceful nomination based on policies and personal preferences and may the best woman or man win in that fashion...I preferred Obama but was not against Hillary, until in my opinion, she decided to cheat, beg, borrow and steal the nomination. That reminded me way to much like GOP tactics that every Dem hated when it was used on us during Gore and Kerry.

Anyways, that is what set me off the deep end and pitted me against the other campaign...I never wanted it to be that way or have what we have now...I just hope things work out for the better.

Regards!

[sasquatch]

330. Older white people: Reagan, Bush, Bush II, Alito, Scalito and Roberts

Enough reason for this 20 something white male to have disdain for the worthless boomers.

[Seabiscuit]

334. Older white people: Carter, Gore, Biden, Dodd, Kucinich, Edwards, Stevens, Souter, Breyer, Ginsberg

And don't forget Paul McCartney, Ringo Starr and Willie Nelson.

Just to name a handful.

Oh, and Reagan's dead, BTW.

You may want to reassess that "worthless boomers" remark.

[scheming daemons]

336. You DO realize that not a SINGLE one of the names you listed has endorsed Hillary....

While Dodd has done so, and Carter has all-but done so for Obama.

[NavyDavy]

341. what an a**! those are all GOPers not DEMS

[sasquatch]

344. Yes, but they were elected by an overwhelming amount of older white people

[Seabiscuit]

349. There are more older white Dems than older white Repukes.

We live longer, for one thing.

[whatchamacallit]

331. A couple of months ago Obama supporters were "children", "ignorant youth", "cult kids"...

It was HRC supporters who divided us into "adults" and "children". If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

[BonnieJW]

332. Thanks!

I am one of the older white women who marched rather than emailed protests. I have three daughters and I've raised them appreciating how hard won are the liberties they enjoy. We shouted slogans, we sat down in the middle of sidewalks, we made ourselves heard. Don't worry about us. After all that, we will not be easily dismissed. I am for Obama after having first been for Edwards, then for Hillary. I am so saddened by watching Bill and Hillary sink farther and farther by their words and deeds. Mark Penn is clearly cut from the same cloth as Karl Rove, so how could they demean themselves?






edited for grammar

[cbaker3122]

338. Very simple answer to your questions

Why all the scorn, personal attacks, insults and condescension visited on the Hillary voters?

Its easy, most Obama supporters are cult-like in their actions and treatment of people. Anyone who does not unconditionally worship their "god" is immediately torn apart like a piece of raw meat by a pack of wolves. Hillary supporters are immediately marginalized, stereotyped, put in a box,personally insulted, viciously attacked.

And it wouldn't matter what demographics she was getting, they would all be excoriated by Obamacult members.

So if you are a white, working class person supporting Hillary, take heart and don't take the Obamacult insults personally. If you went to an Ivy League school and got a PhD in rocket science, you'd still be scum in the eyes of Obamacult members, if you dare vote for Hillary.

At some point, you stop looking at the people being called "white trash" and start looking at the people doing the name calling. And when you look at the attacking Obamacult members, you don't see a whole lot of the "different kind of politics" and "change" they chant to themselves.

(P.S. I have a graduate degree from a top school, and I'm still called stupid, white trash scum too for supporting Hillary on this site.)

[dixiegrrrrl]

340. This ancient, decrepit, senile, drooling white woman

sure appreciates you sticking up for me.

You are right..no doubt the creakiness in my knees is due to the miles I walked in the 70's carrying those heavy anti-war slogans.
Hell, just lifting the oppressive yoke of male patriarchy from around my neck makes me still tired today as I shuffle towards that final sunset.
Oh, yeah...and supporting the voting for 18 year olds while ending the draft for them no doubt contributed to my poor memory today.
I mean, 62 is ancient, isn't it?
Whole planets have no doubt cooled as we sped towards our 6th decade on this one.
fortunately, in my intermittent state of dementia, I can forget that Bush feller every few hours, for a minute or two.

btw...since Hillary is my age, I am voting for that young whippersnapper, Benny O-something..whatever the hell his name is.

[yourguide]

342. Why the disdain for young voters on DU?

[NavyDavy]

343. some of the responses show that some still don't get it or just

think they are the only ones that count.....bunch of immature kids...

[femrap]

347. K and R

Many of the youth will someday be older white women or married to one...maybe the youth of today think they're all gonna die while they're still young and pretty???

This dislike and ridicule of the older white women coming from Dems has left me somewhat unwilling to be part of this party. Maybe I have been 'divided and conquered.'

[Peregrine Took]

348. Some day they will be old and more experienced in the ways of the world

and look back at their "over the top" zeal and snarkiness for Obama and be embarrassed.

[RBInMaine]

350. I don't see much "disdain". Sounds like more HillaryFAN spin.

[Demeter]

352. Two Words: Ronald Reagan

That's why the disdain. They started all this disaster with St. Ronnie, and they will be crushed by the fruits of their sneering attempts to bring down the rest of us. They are not citizens of our nation, but interlopers.

[Schema Thing]

354. "I do not think that word means what you think it means"

"Did you know that, at least in the South, "white trash" were tenant farmers looked down upon by the planter class. Are we wanting to establish ourselves as elitists who have scorn for blue-collar workers? For working-class people?"


meh, maybe that is what it used to mean. That certainly isn't the connotation the phrase "white trash" infers nowadays.

[Debi]

356. And yet your avatar.......

x(



Which can be found by typing 'trailer trash barbie' or 'white trash barbie' into The Google. I'm sure you were just being ironic, Maddy.

[Warren DeMontague]

360. Don't know. While I'm sure that "some DU'ers" engage in what you're talking about, I haven't seen it

If I DO see it, I will be sure to express my disapproval.

Why the disdain for young people, college educated liberals, birkenstock wearers and latte drinkers, while we're at it? :shrug:

[Lord Helmet]

361. from what I can tell it's disdain for you for your regular blizzard of nonsense

[Dubiosus]

362. If I would believe in god,

I would say "OMG"! Watching from abroad to all this "doing" called: "election", is like seeing the

frog swimming in the pot of water onto the slowly heating hot plate.....:patriot:


What are you waiting for? The savior? A chosen "father" or "mother" figure you finally can trust in?

They are expected to be gladiators and rich! Oh, wait a moment! Are you, in the end, waiting for

someone like Kirk Douglas as the wise, brave man, fighting all evil and for your freedoms like heroic

Spartacus? You are asking for actors, you get them!!!!! Sparta really NEVER worked that way you want to

experience!!

The winner won't change one little law or all the other stuff your not elected "daddy" had imposed

onto you proud people!

Sorry for that kind of sarcasm but sometimes it seems necessary to spank some asses!

Don't know what to say, just feels like you people learned nothing from history. But it is sooooo

urgently time to learn. Your government sold you so often, even under clinton when the attack of

Alabama took place. Watching the first airings from that day shows you that there was much more to it

than mcveigh (don't know exactly how his name is spelled).

The only people who speak a language of honest were excluded by media and organizers ignorance from confrontations worth that name, to protect your oscar nominates or american hard and harsh idols.

Get another voting system and impeachment actions as soon as possible. The impeachment thread here at

DU is stalling...

I am at least even as pissed by my own government but at least we are given an idea of an debate

during election time and no slaughter in the house...but I will try to impeach them too.


So much luck and strength to wish! And by the way I cannot stand it anymore to hear all these

wishes for blessings from YOUR god to YOUR country! If you want a blessed place, you have to create

it on your own and take responsibility for your doing. Waiting for an intervention from somebody else

isn't working out that well. Just a feeling in the gut....

:rant: