Axelrod: Working class whites haven't voted strong Dem in years. HRC says, "Screw 'em!"

[flpoljunkie]

Cover that, MSM!

MSNBC has reported several times today what Obama camp chief strategist David Axelrod said yesterday on NPR about working class whites not voting strongly Democratic in a long time--including the Clinton years.

"The white working class has gone to the Republican nominee for many elections, going back even to the Clinton years. This is not new that Democratic candidates don't rely solely on those votes."

What an obvious time for someone in the media to bring up Hillary's vitriolic remark at a 1995 Camp David meeting, after the Democrats lost control of Congress in '94--"Screw 'em," she told her husband. "You don't owe them a thing, Bill. They're doing nothing for you; you don't have to do anything for them."

Yet only Katie Couric has covered this story, to my knowledge--last Thursday night on the CBS Evening News. Why is the media suppressing this? Don't white, working class voters deserve to know what Hillary Clinton thought about them in 1995? The voters of Pennsylvania were essentially kept in the dark on this. Will the voters of Indiana be kept in the dark, as well?

Instead MSNBC has reported today that Bill Clinton is telling white, working class voters in North Carolina that Obama said he doesn't need your votes.

Video clip below. Begins about 9:35 on the tape.

http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=4025802n?source=search_video

Also covered by Sam Stein on Huffington Post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/16/hillary-clinton-on-workin_n_97017.html

Academic Theda Skocpol was at this Camp David meeting and wrote about it on Talkingpointsmemo last week:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theda-skocpol/my-recollection-of-the-19_b_97291.html

[Mags]

1. BO and his folk have turned white middle class voters against

him because of the , typical white person comment, the bitterness comment, and the white trash comment,. I just say screw BO and his supporters.

[flpoljunkie]

2. You sound "bitter" Mags.

[Mags]

5. I think I am becoming bitter toward the BO folk that act so thuggish.

[flpoljunkie]

7. Can you tell me what is "thuggish" about this post?

[Mags]

20. aren't you a BO supporter, comes with the training.

[flpoljunkie]

28. You continue to sound bitter, Mags.

[Mags]

29. I don't care how I sound to BO folk.

[Leftist Agitator]

37. What are "BO folk", exactly?

Is that what you call the race of merry dwarves who cobble your shoes for you at night?

I mean, that's the only logical explanation, since you're clearly delusional.

:eyes:

[Mags]

43. sensitive much, BO call his crowd folk, just check it out.

You folk are totally desperate to bully others to your side. It doesn't work, sorry.

[Leftist Agitator]

48. Who or what is BO?

This is the only BO that I know:

[otohara]

34. Paranoia

not healthy.

[DJ13]

3. So in response to being called "typical white people" some white people.....

.......act like typical white people by getting upset at the uppity black person?

Is that what you mean?


(Ps, Im a white person in case you thought otherwise.)

[Mags]

4. I don't care what you are, you folk have trash and bullied everyone on here that is not for BO.

You folks have already split the party and it will just get worse.

[Political Heretic]

6. folk? Can I call you "boy?"

[terrell9584]

11. uh, folk is not a term of derision

folk is a word that people of all races in the South use for people of all races. The word folks is a word that refers to people. Just like y'all. And if you honestly think the word "folk" has a racial connotation, well Christ, there is just no response. The word "folks" is as much a part of the culture here as saying "you guys" is in the North.

[Political Heretic]

35. Yeah, probably right I guess.

[Mags]

19. couldn't care less. BO calls you Folks, but you can call me boy anytime.

[MethuenProgressive]

22. You can call me Barry,

Like BO's mother called him. Like all his friends called him up until Harvard.
You can call me 'folk' too. Like Barry does.

[Ashy Larry]

9. Oh please. Maybe you should cry about it.

[Mags]

18. far from crying, just puking over the sleze that is forked over here by you BO folk.

[Ashy Larry]

56. Waaaahhhh!

If you can't stand the heat...

[TTUBatfan2008]

10. Your candidate and her supporters...

have called me naive, a latte-sipping liberal, a trust fund baby, etc. all because I'm young and support Obama. The truth is, I'm far from any of those things (for instance, I don't support abortion and I think global warming is being exaggerated by the far left) but it didn't stop her and her supporters from mocking all of the young voters supporting Obama. He and his supporters are no more responsible for splitting the party than she and her supporters, so you can stop pretending that your side is completely innocent. Her campaign tactics, strictly from a political point of view, have been pretty damn divisive. Bill's seemingly dismissive treatment of black voters is pretty divisive I'd say. Your side is no better so quit fuckin' pretending she's innocent.

[Mags]

16. welcome to the world of politics, vote for who you want, If the Pied Piper

is for you , go for it, but remember that does not mean all us white trash folk will.

[TTUBatfan2008]

23. another patronizing remark...

typical BS. I'm quite familiar with how politics works. I voted for Kerry in '04 (my first time being able to vote) and I followed the 2000 election pretty closely. Just because I know how it works doesn't mean I have to take direct insults from Hillary ("the skies will open...") and her supporters that she won't denounce (Buffenbarger, Ed "Kool-Aid" Rendell), and then turn around to vote for that person. Not gonna happen. She's burned the bridge with me as far as I'm concerned. Likewise, if you feel insulted by Obama or his supporters, then you shouldn't take it either. But quit pretending your side is completely fucking innocent because THAT is a load of horseshit.

[Mags]

25. sorry you misunderstood, Politics is hell, all is fair in politics, yes

both sides do it, I'm far from innocent. I just know that in the 40 something yrs. I have been voting, I have never experienced the hatred and disgust and the belittlement of any canidate. I don't care who you vote for, that is your decision, but, get it straight, BO is the one that said he could open up the skies. I haven't seen it yet, have you?

[TTUBatfan2008]

27. Actually he's been pretty damn honest...

and every time he says something honest, he gets harped on for it by Clinton and McCain. He's said all along that he will not be perfect, nobody's perfect. But he will treat the Constitution with respect (a huge issue for me), he will change our diplomacy around the world (I am vehemently anti-war...I am a true pro-lifer all the way around: anti-abortion, anti-death penalty, and anti-war), he will focus on spending money to rebuild our infrastructure (it's pretty pathetic when major freeway bridges are collapsing), and he will stand up for the poor (something he did even straight out of college). I do not agree with Obama on plenty of things, but I'm also not being told I don't matter by him like with Hillary's camp.

[Mags]

31. well chill and vote for him, I really don't care.

[demo dutch]

32. heh Mags I'm with you! :)

[Mags]

44. good

[madrchsod]

41. another brillant post!

keep`m coming...ya screw bo and his supporters!



:yoiks::crazy: :woohoo: :crazy::yoiks::woohoo: :yoiks::woohoo: :yoiks::crazy::woohoo::crazy: :yoiks:

[Telly Savalas]

66. I'm a white middle class guy.

I voted for Obama.

And I think your moronic attempts to spin everything here are pathetic.

[NJSecularist]

8. Working class whites have not voted for us as much as they used to, especially in 2000 and 2004.

Yes, let's repeat 2000 and 2004 and lose another election!

[flpoljunkie]

40. Yes, let's make this person our Democratic nominee.

[Dr Fate]

12. They dont call 'em "swing voters" for nothing.

If they can be fooled into thinking that ANY DEM is an "elite, racist terrorist"- then wait until McCain/media gets to tell them all about Hillary.

I would hope that either candidate can get the "working class" to vote in their best interests- but we just saw how easily they can be fooled by just pushing just a few buttons.

Its something both candidates should consider- these working class swing-voters seem easily swayed by lies, smears, buzz words and "Wille Horton" style associations...

Clinton just showed us how it can be used to one's advantage- so dont think McCain/media can do it too.

[OHdem10]

13. We have not won an election withour them. Axelrold is showing

the elitist view in that campaign. Bill Clinton won because
he had the Blue Collar vote.

If Axlerod thinks they can win with the Youth and African Americans
dividing the Independents with McCain, GOOOD Luck.

Kerry, Dukakis, the list goes on have not worked to get the blue collar
vote and they lost.

[Dr Fate]

17. I disagree with you that Obama will not work harder to gain more white working class support.

And I disagree that noting reality is taking an elitist view.

It's not elitist to note that working class swing-voters often swing republican, and that it is difficult to keep them on one side.

I stand by my point- if Obama or Hillary were to count on swing voters to not swing yet again, that would be a mistake.

[flpoljunkie]

21. Bill did not receive a great deal of white working class support in either 1992 or 1996

But despite Clinton’s electoral success, it was not the case that he received a great deal of white working class support. He averaged only 41 percent across his two election victories. But he did, at least, prevent these voters from siding with his Republican opponents in large numbers, eking out one point pluralities among the white working class in both elections (the rest went to Perot).

http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Files/rc/papers/2008/04_demographics_teixeira/04_demographics_teixeira.pdf

[OHdem10]

26. He received enough white working class and also "Bubba"

votes to make the difference. Otherwise, Daddy Bush would have had
a second term.

[Hippo_Tron]

55. If Kerry had performed as well with $50,000+ voters as Clinton did...

He would have won the election. If he had perofmred as well with under $50,000 voters he also would've won but by a slightly narrower margin.

Demographics have changed toward the $50,000+ range since Clinton left office.

[MethuenProgressive]

14. 'screw 'em' is third hand gossip from a RW hack. Stop helping McCain.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flpoljunkie]

24. Perhaps you should read the links. This quote comes from someone who was there at Camp David.

And, wrote a book about this in 2001.

The statement -- which author Benjamin Barber witnessed and wrote about in his book, "The Truth of Power: Intellectual Affairs in the Clinton White House" -- was prompted by another speaker raising the difficulties of reaching "Reagan Democrats." It stands in stark contrast to the attitude the New York Democrat has recently taken on the campaign trail, in which she has presented herself as the one candidate who understands the working-class needs.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/16/hillary-clinton-on-workin_n_97017.html

[MethuenProgressive]

30. Second hand gossip from a RW hack - at best. Stop helping McCain.

[flpoljunkie]

33. The author, Ben Barber, was an invited participant at the Camp David retreat where this transpired.

In January 1995, as the Clintons were licking their wounds from the 1994 congressional elections, a debate emerged at a retreat at Camp David. Should the administration make overtures to working class white southerners who had all but forsaken the Democratic Party? The then-first lady took a less than inclusive approach.

"Screw 'em," she told her husband. "You don't owe them a thing, Bill. They're doing nothing for you; you don't have to do anything for them."

The statement -- which author Benjamin Barber witnessed and wrote about in his book, "The Truth of Power: Intellectual Affairs in the Clinton White House" -- was prompted by another speaker raising the difficulties of reaching "Reagan Democrats." It stands in stark contrast to the attitude the New York Democrat has recently taken on the campaign trail, in which she has presented herself as the one candidate who understands the working-class needs.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/16/hillary-clinton-on-workin_n_97017.html

[MethuenProgressive]

36. So, in your mind 'working class whites' are 'Reagan Democrats' and all gossip is true?

No wonder you're not a Progressive.

[flpoljunkie]

38. This is not gossip, and your assertion is absurd. You have either not read the links or choose to

ignore their content.

[MethuenProgressive]

39. Someone claims he heard someone said she said something, with no other confirmation.

That's gossip.

[flpoljunkie]

42. Wrong again! You might want to read this post and then try and say it's gossip.

The statement -- which author Benjamin Barber witnessed and wrote about in his book, "The Truth of Power: Intellectual Affairs in the Clinton White House" -- was prompted by another speaker raising the difficulties of reaching "Reagan Democrats." It stands in stark contrast to the attitude the New York Democrat has recently taken on the campaign trail, in which she has presented herself as the one candidate who understands the working-class needs.

Late Update: The Clinton campaign put me in touch with Don Baer, President Clinton's speech writer at the time, who had attended the same meeting. He says: "I don't remember anything along those lines, at all. And I certainly don't remember Senator Clinton saying anything like that... they have their recollections of that, that is their business. The conversation, from my perspective, was moderated in tone."

He did not, it should be noted, directly challenge the interpretations of Barber and Boyte.

Baer's comments came at roughly the same moment that The New Republic published a blog post by Alan Wolfe, a professor of political science at Boston College, who was also at the retreat and says he too heard the quote. Noting Carson's remark -- "So, you've got two guys we've barely heard of remembering a verbatim quote from 13 years ago?... Sounds totally and completely reliable" -- Wolfe writes: "Make that three. I was there. I hope people have heard of me. And Barber and Boyte have it right."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/16/hillary-clinton-on-workin_n_97017.html

[flpoljunkie]

45. Am still waiting for your reponse.

[knixphan]

46. kick for the light of truth

[Romulox]

47. This racial polarization is fucking madness; it MAY win a primary, but it WILL lose the GE. nt

[Leopolds Ghost]

49. Is Axelrod implying the working class is obsolete & their interests no longer core of Dem platform?

Sure sounds like it to me.

All these wishy washy statements -- all much worse than anything Kerry
said -- pile up to suggest a candidate and a culture around him that is
essentially saying "I won't go as far as Hillary. I won't say "screw em"
but... those jobs aren't coming back, they need to be retrained and move
on with their lives."

Any Obama supporters prepared to make the case to me (this weak Obama fan)
that Obama is a populist --

someone who actually understands Thomas Frank
and Michael Lind, much less Wellstone et al?

Or is this just Tweedledee and Tweedledum arguing over who
is less unpopular with a group of voters they intend to abandon
to the Republicans -- and with it, the premise of the New Deal?

And all too many working class whites buy into it, saying:

"fuck you, I ain't bitter and I'M NOT WORKING CLASS, I'm * MIDDLE CLASS *
goddamnit! Working class people are those ----s who replaced my daddy at
the steel mill -- who needs them? I may be starving but I'M NOT WORKING
CLASS and I don't need handouts like those ---s!"

Thus, the destruction of the New Deal and the myth that we are a post-industrial economy,
and not an imperial one based on off-shore industry at slave wages, like ancient Rome or Athens.

[leftstreet]

50. You ask uncomfortable questions

But valid.

I'd like to see some responses, but you probably won't get any.

[Why Syzygy]

51. Hardly.

Labor

Obama will strengthen the ability of workers to organize unions. He will fight for passage of the Employee Free Choice Act. Obama will ensure that his labor appointees support workers' rights and will work to ban the permanent replacement of striking workers. Obama will also increase the minimum wage and index it to inflation to ensure it rises every year.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/#labor

Invest in U.S. Manufacturing: The Obama comprehensive energy independence and climate change plan will invest in America's highly-skilled manufacturing workforce and manufacturing centers to ensure that American workers have the skills and tools they need to pioneer the first wave of green technologies that will be in high demand throughout the world. Obama will also provide assistance to the domestic auto industry to ensure that new fuel-efficient vehicles are built by American workers.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/#innovation

[flpoljunkie]

53. No, he's not. Your assertion is absurd on its face.

[stillcool]

67. I think he is implying..

that....
"The white working class has gone to the Republican nominee for many elections, going back even to the Clinton years. This is not new that Democratic candidates don't rely solely on those votes."

[jonestonesusa]

52. A couple of things...

While Obama is basically a team player for the Democratic party and would hesitate to use this "screw em" video in a primary campaign, Republicans may not show the same restraint in the GE. We can pretend that HRC is a working class populist and not a multimillionaire who supported the Iraq War just like McCain, but beyond the Democratic primary I don't think this pretense will hold.

Plus, you can see from these links that the primary strength of HRC is not simply with white working class voters, it is with white women voters and older white voters. These voters are overrepresented in Pennsylvania, as is discussed in the NPR story and in the CNN exit polling results. You can see that information in the links below. Obama will have to work to get some of these votes, no question, just as Hillary Clinton will have to work hard to get strong support from the black community as did Clinton I. I also think that Clinton's big state argument ignores some other key states in the Midwest that are a must hold for the Democrats in the GE: Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Missouri. The Upper Midwest has quite a few strongly progressive Democrats that are not as friendly to HRC, and McCain is a potential contender there.

Obama's strengths among many white voters in states such as Idaho, Utah, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, and Vermont is often dismissed by HRC supporters. Partisanship is one thing - but it's the ability of Democrats to organize nationally and and prevail in key races is the goal.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89862939
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#PADEM

[flpoljunkie]

54. You make very good points--particularly the GOP would not hesitate to use the "Screw 'em" comment.

[StevieM]

57. But Hillary never really said that. Obama's supporters were lying, remember? (eom)

[flpoljunkie]

58. You may want to read post #42. She absolutely did say, "Screw 'em!" in regard to working class Dems

[StevieM]

59. All three are lying at the request of Sen. Obama. The chances of this "story" coming out, by pure

coincidence, at the same time as bitter-gate, are statistically astronomical.

Steve

[flpoljunkie]

60. You, Steve, are truly delusional! People were reacting to Hillary's hypocrisy.

[quakerboy]

62. Of course

Dirt about a major(final 3) contender in a presidential race coming out in the middle of a fairly heated race could never happen on its own. I mean, statistically, that is just impossible. Dirt in campaigns has to take its time and come in a nice orderly fashion, one at a time, lined up for easy consumption.

[flpoljunkie]

63. Are you perhaps referring to the "bitter" story put out by Huffpo writer who also donated to Fred-

Thompson? Now, that looks like a hit job on Obama right before the "make or break for Hillary" Pennsylvania primary, quakerboy.

[quakerboy]

64. Hit Jobs all around

But which one did the media run with?

[stillcool]

65. I think it's a seek and you will find thing..

and it's not unusual to fight fire with fire.

[jackson_dem]

61. Obamites don't get it. It isn't about winning the white vote. It is about not getting 35-40%

Ask Walter Mondale how that works the next time you see him...