A test for Obama supporters: name TWO mistakes that you feel he has made. Be honest.

[Danger Mouse]

There's a lot of accusations against supporters of both Clinton and Obama that they are 'sheep' or 'bots' or 'cultists'...so let's show that we are capable of independent thought.
Name two things that Obama has done that you feel were mistakes. No cop-out answers like 'he's too easy on Hillary' or something like that. Real stuff. If not a mistake, then something that you disagree with him on. I'll start the ball rolling with my two.

1.) I was very upset with him for including McLurkin on his campaign.

2.) I don't really think his health care policy is all that great. It needs to be better.

Your turn.

[billybob537]

1. Really I don't remember anyone

calling Obama DELUSIONAL

[Danger Mouse]

5. Please explain.

[flor de jasmim]

2. Why?

[Danger Mouse]

4. Why? To show supporters of Clinton that we don't consider him to be a messiah

and can recognize his faults.

[PoliticalAmazon]

55. F*CK that shit. We don't have to prove anything to time-wasting Hillary supporters...

We have a couple of primaries to win, here. Don't let them rattle shiny objects in front of your face to distract you into nonproductive activities.

Besides, you can just bet that some of the more Hillary-like Hillary supporters will copy any criticisms OBama supporters say about Obama and past them on the inbred Hillary websites.

[Danger Mouse]

61. It's a test for both sides, not just ours.

Notice the lack of activity in the other thread?
Doesn't that say a lot?

[burythehatchet]

108. Yeah, that'll do it. That's a great idea, man. Here go mine

1. He's got game but I think he could rebound a little more

2. His suits are not all that great. He's probably trying to tone down his style but he could use a better tailor

[tblue37]

122. Have you changed candidates? Weren't you supporting Hillary last week?

Did you just adopt the Obama icon to get people to say Obama has done stuff wrong?

[RazBerryBeret]

3. Two mistakes....

hmmm.

1. Not addressing his reverend earlier

2. Not taking Hillary to task a little more--I think he could do it w/out being too negative

[GarbagemanLB]

9. I agree with the Wright issue.

He needed to get a handle of it sooner, or at least he needed to have had a plan put in place immediately once the story broke.

As for the second issue...I'd say he should have been more aggressive in going after Hillary's base, and that means he shouldn't be afraid to call her out on hypocrisies like NAFTA and the Colombia trade deal.

[RazBerryBeret]

33. yes, that's how I feel too.

and I think he could totally do that w/out being negative or slinging mud. Like in the PA debate, I totally respect him for not trashing her when the mods asked him how he felt about her bosnia lie, she trashed him at EVERY chance. but I do think the could be a little "snarky"--he has a great sense of humor and I think that would play well....when Hillary said she got confused and "misspoke" he could counter with--yeah, we're both parents and we both know when our kids do that it is called a lie....

[PoliticalAmazon]

56. Be prepared to have the Hillary supporters use your comments against Obama. n/t

[Telly Savalas]

68. So what?

This is a small virtual community where pretty much everybody has made up their mind already. The subset of Clinton supporters that play "gotcha!" games are easily recognized as fucking idiots and have no influence over people's opinions here much less in the real world.

This is a much more interesting thread than the "I know you are, but what am I" bullshit this board is drowning in.

[PoliticalAmazon]

87. THINK how the Hillary mind thinks and acts. They will use your words against Obama...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5673211&mesg_id=5674294

[TheDoorbellRang]

81. Not just them Hillary supporters, but campaign and media people, too

Case in point: I had a friendly exchange about a certain matter with another Duer here one night, and the very matter we were speculating about was a widely disseminated article on the net and in some of the M$M two days later. Since the topic was something I had not seen in the media up until that point, it made me wonder just how much is being gleaned from sites like DU.

I may have some differences with Obama, but I would hesitate to air them on a public message board where Mark Penn reads it and thinks, "Aha! So that really bothers them, eh?"

[PoliticalAmazon]

86. THINK how Hillary twists Obama's words into lies. THINK how Hillary supporters...

...are more and more using the same Rove/Bush tactics as Hillary.

What in the world makes you think they will quote you correctly? Or not spin your words into lies?

[TheDoorbellRang]

102. It's not whether or not they quote us correctly, it's a matter of giving them free fodder

What bothers me about a thread where everyone is supposed to list what bothers them about Obama is that some previously unmentioned "flaw" will be jumped on by whoever watches these sites to be used for future blown-out-of-proportion sound bites. I'd never assume they'd not spin as fast as they could.

[Danger Mouse]

104. I don't think that will happen...but I could be wrong. I hadn't thought of that, and I apologize.

[TheDoorbellRang]

110. 'Salright. I hope I'm wrong. Just color me paranoid

:hi:

[PoliticalAmazon]

112. Biggest mistake made by Dems in dealing with Bush are same with Hillary...

...Many could not believe that Bush would do what he did. It was more comforting to believe that an American president would not get soldiers slaughtered based on lies...would never out a CIA agent...would not stand silent and allow the 9/11 attacks to occur...would not coverup for Enron long enough for the executives to do what they had to before Enron filed for bankruptcy..and on and on and on.

The truth is that there was NOTHING in Bush's background that would give any indication that he WOULD NOT do any of the above and more. But it is just to horrible to believe a sitting persident would betray his country and its people again and again and again.

We are now experiencing the same thing with Hillary Clinton. Especially for the prior Hillary loyalists, it is more comforting to believe that she just WOULDN't do anything like that! Not Hillary! Not a Democrat! She wouldn't!

But she has, repeatedly, used the worst Bush/Rove tactics, including the heinous bigot-pandering.

So I understand why you don't believe her supporters--who have slowly become as bad as she is--wouldn't do what Hillary has done: sieze your words and twist them into lies, and then use them against you and Obama.

But think how Hillary twisted "bitter" and how she has flat-out LIED about Obama and his supporters.

And don't let her or her followers surprise you in the future. We cannot afford to be naive with Hillary, no more than we could afford to be naive with Bush Jr.

[PoliticalAmazon]

109. Very wise. Comments will be blown out of proportion and spun....

..The most important part: they will be used to hurt Obama.

[quakerboy]

114. You really think there are

flaws that one of their ilk has not already jumped on feet first as a "Fatal" "game ending" issue? I don't.

[lumberjack_jeff]

119. Because you think we're unaware of any of his mistakes? n/t

[Bensthename]

16. He is walking a fine line. He knows he is the nominee and can not afford to alienate the Hillary

voters. He is just playing defense till this is over. Last week he said, I can't remember his exact words, but he will hit McCain alot harder then Clinton because she is in the same party. And McCain has alot of bad ideas and we can not afford a 3rd Bush term on Iraq and economy.

[gabeana]

6. okay here I go

1. Not going after Hillary harder, he has pretty much giving her a free pass (Tuzla)

2. After faux "Bitter" gate he should have given a major speech on poverty

[femmedem]

7. McClurkin and saying he wouldn't meet with Hamas w/o preconditions. n/t

[Bucky]

8. He shouldn't have flipped off Clinton after that debate....

... because it's really alienated him from his fellow Muslims.

[lisa58]

10. lol

[Bensthename]

18. That was my favorite part of this whole campaign..

I totally disagree. Haha,,.

[XemaSab]

11. Good question

I like your choices, but I feel compelled to pick my own.

1) I worry that he's making a mistake in letting Clinton snipe at him constantly. For people who think, it's apparent that she's making an ass of herself, but I worry that this is lost on a lot of folks.

2) His environmental platform is underwhelming.

[Danger Mouse]

24. Yeah, I agree that he needs to be stronger on environmental issues.

:hi:

[Ysabel]

124. hey you apologised for this thread so why are you continuing it...

- damn this is not some silly game...

[PVnRT]

134. I agree about the environmental issue as well

Frankly, none of the candidates had environmental platforms that wowed me.

[XemaSab]

141. I'm going to take it a step further

I got the feeling that none of the candidates, except Kucinich and possibly Richardson, "got" environmentalism, and all their platforms had a really perfunctory feeling to them.

[democrattotheend]

12. I can name a few

I think he handled the Michigan revote situation wrong, and I think McClurkin was a mistake. I also disagree with the campaign's decision to use healthcare flyers that looked reminiscent of Harry and Louise, even though I think the mail pieces she had hitting him on health care were just as bad.

[gateley]

13. I'm with you on the health care,

but I think both of their plans suck.

I don't like how he didn't say "hell yes!" about pursuing charges against Bushco. That may not have been a "political" mistake, but I wanted him to say he'd go after them.

He doesn't kick butt enough when answering charges i.e. Ayers.

[LSparkle]

14. 1) Should have gone for single payer healthcare; 2) "Bitter" comment

On the second one, he should have handled this better. First off, he should
not have spent the first few days digging in his heels so deeply -- he should
have admitted sooner that he had expressed himself inarticulately, and he
should have used the ABC "debate" as a chance to flesh out those remarks
more fully.

Generally, he needs to have more rehearsed answers for some of the cultural
issues that don't require on-the-spot analysis. He needs to have a pat
response for the flag pin question, the Rev. Wright question (talk about
how this man inspired his faith), the Jimmy Carter/Hamas question, the
Ayers question ... Subjects like the economy or the war are serious issues
that deserve scholarly responses, but on things like the cultural issues,
he needs to come across as more confident, less hesitant, less vulnerable
to misinterpretation. Get an answer down and just keep repeating it until
the people get it and the questions stop coming.

[myrna minx]

15. McClurkin was very troubling, since almost everyone I love is gay. n/t

[Danger Mouse]

19. It really bothered me, too, more than anything else he has done.

[dionysus]

17. mcclurkin and saying the bitter comment the way he did

[sniffa]

20. Sure

He should have come back to vote on Kyl/Joementum. Sure, he was against it, but it would have been better to have a vote on record. It would cut that TP out that he purposely avoided the vote so he wouldn't have to be on record (though I do enjoy hearing Joementum give her credit for voting for it, while denouncing Obama for voting against it).

Going ahead with Donnie McClurkin emceeing his SC event even after being alerted to his bigoted shit. He was deluged with pleas to drop him and he went ahead anyhow.

Oh, and his calling Bill Clinton a racist. I can't believe he said that on film.

[Danger Mouse]

31. Yeah, again, McClurkin was a BIG thing for me.

[TTUBatfan2008]

39. He's never called Bill a racist...

where the hell did you get that one from?

[sniffa]

53. Right here on DU

It's posted all the time. I'm sure there has to be a Youtube of it. :shrug:

[TTUBatfan2008]

57. LOL...

;)

[sniffa]

152. UPDATE: I found the video of him calling Bill Clinton a racist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPNdIrnwyfE&feature=related

[bicentennial_baby]

21. 1) McClurkin

2) Not adopting a healthcare platform more like Kucinich's.

[Danger Mouse]

34. Looks like we're in agreeance.

:hi:
I also think he's a bit hawkish on foreign policy, but far far less so than HRC or McCain.

[Adelante]

22. He should have met with the Chicago press and cleared up

the Rezco issues sooner than he did.

His health care plan is fine as compared to Clinton's. But he should be straight up single payer and be done with it.

[blonndee]

23. 1. He didn't do a very good job explaining his

"bitter" comments. In fact, I really thing the mistake was that he phrased it that way at all.

2. I think his campaign lately has been different in that there's less positivity and energy than in the beginning. I wish that he would smile more, continue to emphasize the positive more than the negative (which is difficult, when he has to respond to attacks from TWO opponents as well as the drooling corpmedia whores). It seems like all he's been doing lately is playing defense. Is this a mistake? I don't know, but I think it's definitely something of a problem.

[Danger Mouse]

28. I think that once the nomination is secure, he will be back to his more enthusiastic self.

It's tough taking hits from a fellow dem.

[Indenturedebtor]

25. Good question

1) Bitter
2) Not pretending like Hillary doesn't exist any more. She's a non entity at this point and he's just giving her delusions support by treating her like she's still a candidate. I think he should focus on McCain more. She'll go apeshit crazy and open up more of her soul to public view if he discounts her gracefully.

[Kaylee]

26. Hmmmm

1) This recent "All three of us would be better than Bush" comment. Unnecessarily, gives McCain some breathing room from being called Bush2.

2) He's not managing the "surrogate game/media game" as well as I would like. Hillary & Co., have been able to frame too many discussions in their favor. I have no idea how to do this better since Obama is going against people with no ethics, but somehow his surrogates have to start making the Obama campaign's point-of-view the media's point-of-view.

[Ashy Larry]

27. I would like to see him run a more populist campaign.

I think his themes of unifying the country and overcoming the special interests in DC have been effective but he has already gained the support of the people who like that kind of message. Now is the time to really go after the connection between corporate interests and republican policies. Using much more stark language.

He talks a lot about being accountable to the people rather than lobbyists and special interests because of how his campaign has been funded. Its time to show people the benefits of that. He can afford to bash corporations because he doesn't need their money. Become the anti-corporate candidate.

[Occam Bandage]

29. 1) "Bitter" comment was dumb. 2) Not being more proactive on Wright.

[bigwillq]

30. McClurkin

and at times, being too nice (soft); trying to unify everyone.


I think it's great, and it's something that it took me some getting used to, that he wants to unite all people regardless of party, gender, race, sexual identification, but it turned me off early on, especially with the religious influence.

We need to work across the aisles, for sure. But sometimes it seems like he's blatantly trying to do that just to secure votes. I still think he needs to be a bit tougher with his opponents. Not so much Clinton, there's no need to waste his time on her, she's toast, but with the repukes and other critics. If he (and his supporters) think it's been rough lately, they haven't seen anything like they will when he is the nominee and has to go up against McCain and the GOP.

But so far his strategy has worked.

[Danger Mouse]

38. I think he will be ready for McCain...and McCain himself might not play majorly dirty...

but the higher ups in the Repuke party will through the kitchen sink and everything in it at Obama at every opportunity.
Obama and his people are smart...I'm sure they've got their own war chest prepared for McCain.

[bigwillq]

42. Oh I think he will be ready

I just want him to show a little more spine. He's been very careful. I guess he's waiting until the fall. Like I said, his strategy has worked.

[Danger Mouse]

46. I, for one, am looking forward to a debate between Obama and McCain.

:evilgrin:

[RichardRay]

32. Started earlier, rolled out the policy wonks sooner

He took a bit too long announcing. I know why, I know, and I even understand it, but I wish he'd gotten started sooner.

He has a web site, two books and a battalion of staffers full of good policy wonk content. I'd have liked to see more emphasis on some of that content sooner. Not to the exclusion of his successful appeal and truly inspiriing oratory, but I'd liked to have seen something like an Internet-based town hall of some sort with the hard core policy nerds.

For bonus points, a third item: He needs to freshen up his stump speech, it's getting stale.

[Raine]

35. Wright & the bitter comment

not saying whether the comment itself was right or wrong but it was dumb to think it wouldn't get out. :-(

[Danger Mouse]

43. I think he worded it poorly...and in a campaign where literally EVERY word out of your mouth..

is under a microscope...you CAN'T get sloppy.

[KansasVoter]

36. Not addressing wright earlier, not courting edwards more

[SunsetDreams]

37. I'm sorry, I hope I don't offend anyone here...

I'll agree that there are a few things that I have questioned, but I am not going to name them. Overall I think Obama is the best for this country.

My reasons are this: we have so many trolls and people who seek to do Obama or Hillary harm, by reading these comments.

I can see someone using this against them....Even Obama supporters said this was a problem....Even Hillary supporters said this was a problem.

We will only validate their arguements.

I will end by saying...I know full well Obama is not perfect...no human being is...Only GOD is perfect in my faith.

[Danger Mouse]

40. Fair enough...it's not my intent to give anyone ammo.

:hi:
But i understand where you're coming from.

[SunsetDreams]

58. This post and the other one

is making me sad...because both camps have their enemies here who seek to do the candidates harm.

I know you didn't intend to give anyone ammo, but sadly I think it will...against Obama or Hillary.

Because all they have to do is say...well Obama supporters said this and quote it

Hillary supporters said this and quote it....it does nothing but help their adversaries, because it will validate their claims.

I know you meant well, and it is everyone's right to air their opinions, but we must think of the bigger picture here against the Repukes, freepers, and trolls.

[Danger Mouse]

60. Let them do as they will...nobody who matters will take it seriously.

[rwheeler31]

41. He needs to emphasize his constitutional law knowledge more.

2. He needs more white surrogates especially from business and judiciary.

[harun]

135. I think both of these are good advice (n/t)

[PresidentObama]

44. His wording behind the "bitter" comment. Like the OP, his healthcare plan. I like Clinton/Edwards.

[DarienComp]

45. Let's see..

McClurkin pissed me off. The "bitter" comments should've been phrased differently.

[TTUBatfan2008]

47. The top two mistakes he's made as a Presidential candidate...

1. Associating himself with Wright in the first place. Even if I agree with Wright on a lot of what he says, I cannot believe that Obama would associate himself with that guy and stay at that church as long as he did. The fact of the matter is that as a politician you have to choose your friends more carefully, otherwise you risk career suicide.

2. Claiming to be above the fray when he really isn't. He's far classier and gracious than Clinton, but he's by no means above the fray of typical politics.

[Bonobo]

48. He should have kicked McClurkin to the curb.

[Danger Mouse]

49. DAMN. STRAIGHT. This has really hurt his support among gays.

And rightfully so.

[goletian]

50. from an idealist standpoint, i have gripes with some of obamas positions...

but, from a practical one, none at all. for every one of his more important flaws (ones that i see), i also see justification for them, i get why hes taken the positions he has.

-civil unions over gay marriage
-didnt defend wrights comments
-didnt say, "if i were a muslim, so what?"

the petty:

-dont appreciate his speaking ability -- i think what hes saying is usually great, however
-dont like his overuse of phrases like "as careful getting in as we were careless getting out, etc." (i dont like repetitiveness, but it has its benefits so i get why he does this)
-dont like his hand gestures when he speaks
-dont like the rhythm he takes on when he speaks sometimes
-dont like his uhs when he speaks...
-dont like that hes soft on hillary

[Danger Mouse]

51. all very good points, and the uhs annoy me too

:)

[leaningprog]

52. used Clinton's tactics as a running voter education venue

1. He could have run a strategy of rebuttal to her attacks by
showing the Clinton strategy involved, how it is supposed to
work, and offer a an example of how it is inferior to his
methods to forge a better political model. Also to include
examples of similar Republican tactics based on the same
strategy to show the Clinton and Republican play book to be
almost identical. And finally deliver the rebuttal.
Basically he could have used them as the wrong move example
in a very public and humiliating way, but not gotten dragged
into their favorite swamp to play with them. An online running
tally of these would have become viral on the web.

2. He should have emphasized his position on the empowerment of
women and demanded his supporters lay off the cheap shots
at women on a continuous basis during the primary. This would
make it easier to heal the party after the primary.

He is new, he can be painted as anything someone wants to with
voters and he missed a chance to make it an advantage. The Clintons
are known, their antics and the polarization that they bring and
that also follows them are almost forgiven and expected by most
of the electorate. He missed a chance to let them run their favorite
kind of game and use it to paint them as outmoded, polarizing,
and the real reason to choose himself over someone with almost
identical issue stands: better methods and standards that have
a higher chance of a collaborating set of parties in Washington
after the GE.

[Danger Mouse]

54. interesting answers and welcome to DU.

:hi:

[Coexist]

59. McClurkin,

not getting a speech coach so he doesn't "er... ummm.."

[Danger Mouse]

63. Maybe we should donate some money to his cause for him to get one!

I like that idea.

[anigbrowl]

101. Forget about the speech coach

This is something I know a lot about - I'm trained in speech & drama, work with actors a lot, and my sister's a speech therapist. It's really hard to break habits you acquire in childhood. Obama umms and aahs, Hillary cackles, McCain says 'My friends' and 'by the way' a lot. That's just how it is.

On McClurkin, I se numerous people mentioning it and I don't disagree, but I also feel a bit frustrated on Obama's behalf...seems like people would not have been satisfied unless he'd personally thrown McClurkin off the stage or had him shot.

If you consider these 2 articles, 1 from 2001 and 1 from a Boston gay paper right after the whole episode, it's obvious that McClurkin has had a troubled history because of sexual abuse during his youth (I quote the 2001 article to point out that this wasn't some Obama post-gaffe spin). Add in his bout with cancer at a fairly early age, and his personal religious faith, and its clear the guy has complex personal issues.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1077/is_10_56/ai_76770627
http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=glbt&sc2=news&sc3=&id=23914

He is certainly not some random homophobe that Obama found playing an organ in church. I don't buy his take on life, but then I'm not a Christian anyway. I can't help feeling that McClurkin pisses off a lot of gay people as much because he walked away from his previous identity as a gay person as much as anything else.

To do so in anathema to SOME gay people - having suffered themselves because of social hostility towards homosexuality, a number of gay people are militant about their sexuality, which can result in its own kind of intolerance. Bisexual people have had some difficulties finding acceptance in the gay community of their dual sexuality in the past. Nor is this just a gay phenomenon - you can see the same thing in the S&M community, it's something that can affect interracial relationships and so on. All subcultures have internal conflicts between members' public representation of the community they're part of and their self-expression as individuals. For that matter, I know some black gay people who say the Castro community (I live in San Francisco) isn't always as welcoming and open as you might think from a bystanders' perspective.

In short, Obama made a mistake in not considering McClurkin's perception by the gay community (which he's never disputed - see http://advocate.com/news_detail_ektid50021.asp), but some gay commentators have been too quick to pigeonhole McClurkin rather than deal with him as an individual, and have chosen to cling to the issue instead of considering the wider context (yes, I thought about that before I wrote it). As with numerous other issues, a segment of the electorate has made an emotional decision and the steadfastly rationalized it by pointing to an isolated and uncharacteristic example of what they're talking about.

[dsc]

126. Yes, we bitter, emotional queens, who just pick on poor McClurkin

give me an ever loving break.

[mcctatas]

62. If by he you mean his campaign as well...

they don't respond quickly enough to sliming
The last debate was not one of his finer performances
bittergate; could have been responded to and explained much better and more quickly...
that's about all I have:)

[Danger Mouse]

nice responses, thanks for your contribution!

[sniffa]

67. I disagree with your first one

His campaign (in my view) has been unbelievably fast in their response (mostly) and usually, they're deadly; they overwhelm the initial attack, and then go on the attack of the person (or his or her campaign) who said it. Lately it seems to be a bit off, but his track record shows otherwise. In general, he's been outstanding at changing the angle of the latest coverage in his favor (and against his opponent) in a matter of hours.

[mcctatas]

78. I can concede that up until recently they were effective, but lately

not so much...

[anigbrowl]

64. Here's my two - more effort in California and more of a role for Michelle

Not campaigning in CA as strongly as possible - I feel he could have won t with a little more face time and money, although that's easy for me to say - I didn't have to plan a multi-state campaign. I just feel that since the Clintons have always been very popular in CA it was worth taking the fight to them more aggressively - a few less TV ads, a few more visits to the state.

Pride-gate (Michelle Obama's remarks) - I think that was an honest mistake, but Michelle or her speechwriter or someone should have caught the subtext and found a better way to express her feelings of pride (eg 'I have never been so proud to be an American' or suchlike). Or as it actually happened, she should have gone on TV herself and articulated her thoughts, grasp the nettle as they say.

Since then she's been too much in the background, which is a pity because she is actually an effective campaigner and I'd like to see more of her - both to speak to female voters and as an extra pair of boots on the ground, stirring up rallies that he can't always find time to attend. She needs to be in the public eye more often, enough time has gone by that they can now blow it off as an old controversy.

[anonymous171]

65. McClurkin.

[Danger Mouse]

72. i'd say that one's the most common.

:)

[GodlessBiker]

66. Being against gay marriage and not coming out harder against China.

[knixphan]

69. my two

1. Not championing single payer health like Kucinich, Conyers and Michael Moore.
(that's okay, we'll fight for it with our senators and reps anyways)

2. Not running more commercials against the repubs RIGHT NOW.


I've always said that he aint perfect, and more centrist than I'd like.

Doesn't make my 'GOBAMA' any less powerful!

[Gore1FL]

70. Two mistakes?

1> He often speaks before formulating the right phrase. He's not as bad as John Kerry was at this, but puinised with a baby, for example, was poorly worded, though what he meant was correct.

2> He needs to be more personal with his Hope message. It is an inspiring message that would work even better if he used it in smaller events in smaller towns. --More train whistle stops like he did in PA.

I'll give a third:

3> He has spent too much time running against Hillary, who is well beyond "also-ran" status at his point, and not enough running against McCain.

And a fourth:

4> He needs to adapt the John Edwards 2 America's to his own campaign. They are a perfect fit. He has failed to do so effectively.

[Warren DeMontague]

71. I'll go with you on McClurkin. I probably would have supported him a lot earlier if not for that.

#2) I didn't appreciate his saying that "probably no Atheist kids feel discriminated against by having to say Under God in the pledge". This Atheist kid DID.

Those two things were stumbling blocks for me.

[Danger Mouse]

76. I always skip the 'under god' when i do the pledge at work.

Nobody has ever said anything to me about it.

[Jed Dilligan]

73. McLurkin + should have spent more in CA

I think his health plan is flawed but better than hers.

[Barack_America]

74. 1. Not coming to South Jersey

2. Not spending more time pressing the flesh in Philly (though I understand the reasoning, but that stems from the "bitter" comments, of which the phrasing was certainly a mistake)

[Capn Sunshine]

80. Actually, his refusal to pay the traditional Philly "street money"

is the reason he didn't spend more time there.
South Philly's Democratic machine runs on bribe money, and Obama to his credit doesn't play that bullshit game.

[Barack_America]

88. That certainly didn't hurt him in terms of volunteers.

I spoke with all of the staffers in my area and they were all fully staffed. No shortages at all.

Where it did hurt him was poll workers (Clinton influenced/paid?) illegally turning away voters in heavily African American districts. Sad, but true. Clinton also paid some canvassers in the area, but it's doubtful that had much of an effect.

[Danger Mouse]

90. Seriously? Is there evidence of this being done?

If so, that is disgusting.

[Barack_America]

92. Yes. Unfortunately.

What has or will be done with it, I don't know. But it was reported up, if you catch my drift.

I learned a lot about how elections are run in Philly, that's for sure. And much of it wasn't pretty.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flowomo]

77. He let Stephanopoulos and Gibson (!) steamroll him.

And the other is the mistake he himself acknowledged: the misphrasing of the "bitter" observation.

[mckeown1128]

79. wanting to raising the capital gains tax too much...

Drivers licenses for Undocumented immigrants.

I don't disagree with either policy... but I don't think either is important enough to out weigh the political damage that they bring. Republicans will run with them and run strong. They aren't worth the problem. Obama NEVER should have taken those positions. They are like Kryptonite to him...superman.

[Solon]

82. Just two?

McClurkin was a big one, and one reason I don't trust him except when compared to Hillary, but that's damning with faint praise. To be honest, he was an asshole about the whole thing.

Health Care, his plan sucks, period. H.R. 676 is the way to go.

Foreign Policy, as hawkish as Hillary, and that's really fucking bad.

Free Trade, he's always talking out of both sides of his mouth on this one.

Energy and Environment, He seems to be totally clueless about this one, get him an actual science advisor who's an actual scientist, quick!

Domestic economic policies, seem to be way to fucking timid and I really don't like most of his ideas on this stuff.

Welfare, seems to be just another centrist on this shit.

To be honest, I'm quite lukewarm towards the guy, indeed, I'm not so much a supporter as someone who, due to lack of choice, no longer opposes his nomination.

ON EDIT: Additional beef, GLBT rights, he doesn't support Marriage Equality, which is a big mark against him. I could go on, but I don't think you need 500 pages worth of stuff I oppose him on.

[Danger Mouse]

83. Good (and forceful) answers, thanks!

I do think that Clinton has shown herself to be more hawkish than Obama, imho, so I disagree there.
McClurkin has huge, tho.

[Solon]

84. He was just more diplomatic about it, but, in reality, they would both...

react the same to most crisis situations in the world, and that would be to bomb somebody.

[Danger Mouse]

85. i would really hope not...sigh...

[Solon]

89. Hope can be considered a good thing, but it should be tempered by reality...

To be honest, if Obama is the best the Democratic party can come up with, that just illustrates the sad state of affairs, both within the party and within the country. I hate to be negative, but that's the truth.

[Danger Mouse]

91. the problem is that kucinich would be great...

but he's not charismatic.
unfortunately, this kind of stuff is important...it shouldn't be, but it is.

[Solon]

94. I don't think charisma was a problem, he was marginalized on purpose...

even though he's just barely center-left, instead of center-right like the two candidates competing right now. The fact is that most of his policy positions and ideas aren't even radical, and he has a great sense of humor about himself and others, its just that the M$M portrayed him as some sort of radical, and most people, both within the Democratic Party and outside of it, bought that bullshit, hook, line, and sinker.

[undeterred]

93. Frighteningly pointless and useless post of the day.

[Danger Mouse]

Gee, thanks. I was just trying to prove a point.

[undeterred]

117. Then do it yourself.

[madrchsod]

97. nah..i`ve seen worse today

but the day is`t over yet...

[LittleClarkie]

95. McClurkin. Whether intentional or not proper vetting, that was not good.

A second...

Can't think of one at the mo'

But I support him despite the first one.

[Faygo Kid]

96. How about: 1. He hasn't told Ellrond Hubbard that he posts garbage 2. Repeat complaint 1.

So why don't you start another thread, about two things Hillary "has done that you feel were mistakes."

Some of the crap here is tough even for my mega-BS saw to cut through. But I keep cuttin'.

[Danger Mouse]

99. Thanks for the personal attack...did you NOT see this thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5673271&mesg_id=5673271

You might've missed it, because as you may have noticed, HRC supporters seem to have trouble admitting that she makes mistakes.

[Faygo Kid]

100. Still garbage. I don't need any "tests."

Pointless crap is pointless crap. Evenhanded pointless crap is still evenhanded pointless crap.

All the best.

[Danger Mouse]

103. The results have been about what I expected...

I actually anticipated healthy discussion on this thread, and little to no participation on the other thread.
It was interesting nonetheless, if you think it's pointless, then why kick it?

[Faygo Kid]

105. Just want to make you happy, after all.

Look, the premise is garbage. I'm happy to kick it for you, though, and wish you a great weekend.

[Danger Mouse]

107. Fair enough. You do the same.

[Bad Thoughts]

98. Overexposure and Talk Shows

I think the campaign fails to realize that at some point adds not only cease to sway voters, it turns some off. I think they need to pace them more, and not have one on every ten minutes. Obama himself should also make himself more available for talk shows, both entertainment and political wonkery, to get same exposure as Clinton.

[stevietheman]

106. Biggest mistake was not taking the gloves off re: Hillary earlier on n/t

n/t

[Mezzo]

111. OMG!! You just named the two things that made me go to Hillary

I was Edwards originally. But BO and HRC share a NINETY FIVE PERCENT voting record together.

That's NINETY FIVE PER CENT. Maybe if I do it like this, it'll get through to some: 95% shared voting record.

But his health care plan falls short, and when it comes to gay rights, he just mouths the words.

[Scriptor Ignotus]

140. just pretend they voted together 100% of the time

same diff anyway.

No which of them has better leadership qualities? Which of them are more inspiring? More authentic? More calculating? More experienced? More likely to fix the damage Bush has caused?

This is the calculus I ran in my head, and it came out to Obama. By a large margin. But to each their own.

[quakerboy]

113. mine are pretty easy

I would like to see him out front on a real universal health care plan, not doing so was a mistake.

I was disappointed he stepped back from Wright the way he did. Doing so was a mistake.

[Asgaya Dihi]

115. He's made more than two

I was disappointed in him when shortly after he took office one of the first things he did was to polish his tough on crime credentials by co-sponsoring another bad drug war bill, the Combat Meth Act of 2005. That's a decent part of why I supported neither candidate till well into the race.

Health care I'll agree with you on, single payer is the way to go. I don't like what either of the two left offer. But that's stealing one I guess so another of my own.

The way he reacted to the last debate could have been better. To be honest he dealt with it better than I would but then again I'm not running for President nor under the new politics idea, he is. I don't think the Annie Oakley comment and a few other things about it helped him much, made him look for a moment there like he was starting to enjoy a fight and that would kill his whole image. Nothing wrong with fighting back if you have to but it won't do him a bit of good if he seems to enjoy it.

[pettypace]

116. two clear cut for me

1) "You're likable enough" comment in the NH debate, preventing a possible early wrap up of the nomination.

2) Talking about small-town people clinging to faith and religion, in San Fran. Why couldn't he perceive that in this age there's the possibility of those comments being revealed, which they were.


(The Rev Wright link is a huge Damocles sword, but he was engaged in that relationship long before he intended to run for POTUS)

Additionally, he's not playing offense in deflecting unpatriotic labels, knowing full well his two opponents don't wear lapel pins. His campaign speeches are sounding quite repetitive as well these days, to borrow a point made by Pat Buchanan earlier today. He needs to reinvigorate his talking points. Also, as another talking head brought up today, Michelle's 'proud of America' comment needs to be nipped in the bud. I'm disappointed that he'd been avoiding going on Fox News, which he'll now do this Saturday (if you can't stand up to Fox, how can you handle international bad guys ;) )

I'm not blind to Obama's flaws, I just feel he's the best of the 3 contending individuals.

[QC]

118. This is a very inspiring thread--smart, civil, substantive.

It has been a pleasure to read and has given me a lot to think about and a lot to admire about Obama and many of his supporters here.

Bravo!

[lumberjack_jeff]

120. I agree. n/t

[Danger Mouse]

128. Thanks!

:hi:

[Political Heretic]

121. I can give you four:

1) One Obama weakness is the tendency to get caught in so-called "gaffes" because he gets too intellectual in his comments. A three paragraph response is whittled into a two second-sound bite and made to say the opposite. Some of that is Obama's fault though, for trying to give huge answers when what is really required of a national politician campaigning for president is a more concise sound bite that is more difficult to distort.

2) I like Obama's health care plan, but I don't think it goes far enough, and I think Hillary's is better, though it also does not go far enough.

3) The Obama "bitter" comments, even though I understand what he meant in context and it isn't offensive to this rural voter, was still a gaffe.

4) Obama's Ohio/Texas accusations that Clinton's health care plan would force poor people who couldn't afford it to get health insurance was really unfair, just like her claims that his plan would leave millions uncovered was really unfair. His campaign distorted her position. That happens all the time in politics, but I don't have to like it.

[Alexander]

123. 1) McClurkin. 2) Supporting nuclear power.

With McClurkin, it seems like everyone here knows it was a stupid, pandering move, regardless of who you support.

As for nukes, I don't trust them, I don't think our safety regulations and oversight committees are careful enough to prevent another Chernobyl from happening, and I sure as hell wouldn't want that anywhere near my back yard - even though there's a nuke plant about 40 miles west of here.

Here are some more I can think of.

-Obama should never have answered that questionnaire in 1996

-He should have stood up with Dodd for decriminalizing marijuana at the debate

-He should not have agreed to the recent ABC debate

-He shouldn't have made the "bitter" comment (moreso the "cling to guns and religion" part) even though I knew it was bullshit and I understand what he's talking about, Obama should have anticipated that it would be taken out of context.

[Ysabel]

125. THIS IS A DIRTY TRICK...

- bah...

[Danger Mouse]

127. why do you say that?

[Youphemism]

129. Choice of Bowling Coach and...

...not putting double-stick tape behind his ears when campaigning in a heavy wind.

[Unbowed]

130. He gives too much time and credit to Hillary Clinton.

McCain is his opponent now. Hillary is irrelevant.

The other thing, he needs to put some of the fire in his speeches into his interviews/debates. His conversational tone is great. We've heard it though. He's got to show some fire and passion on the issues. He's known for being reasoned and measured. He needs to show he can be forceful too. To be honest, I don't think some people want to listen to a serious discussion of the issue. They fall asleep without a few passionate sound bites thrown in there.

EDIT: NO, I do not want to see Obama debate Clinton again. She's had her chance and he's been nice enough to give her the time on the national stage next to him. The next debate I want to see is between Obama and McAsshole.

[AlinPA]

131. 1. Trusting Sen. Clinton. 2. Agreeing to go on Fox "News" on Sunday

[SemiCharmedQuark]

132. He should have taken a stand for gay MARRIAGE.

I'm sick of playing these word games and coming up with what amounts to separate but equal policies.

Second: McClurkin

Third: Straight up universal healthcare

But that's why I supported Kucinich in the first place

[PVnRT]

133. I can name four

1) McClurkin was a monumental mistake
2) While not as aggressive as Hillary, I still don't like his posturing on Iran
3) I think he can be handling the press better
4) Anything short of single-payer national health insurance is simply not enough for me

[izzybeans]

136. 1) Not supporting Jimmy Carter's choice of talking to Hammas, despite Obama's stated

foreign policy strategy of negotiation.

2) Not giving a wide ranging speech on the "war on working people" after the pseudo-bitter gate.

3) Quit with the semantics about Civil Unions and gay marriage, we al know you support it. Just don't waffle on the issue.

[Vinca]

137. I've always criticized his health insurance scheme . That's his biggest mistake,

IMHO. (Hillary's is equally bad.) His biggest mistake campaigning is answering stupid questions. On the ABC ambush I would have liked to have seen him tell Gibson and Stephanopoulos that he'd already answered the National Enquirer questions a million times and if they wanted to ask policy questions he would gladly answer them, but the ones they were trying to get a headline out of wouldn't get a response. Kind of a polite "fuck you."

[eridani]

138. Agree on McClurkin

Other mistakes are criticizing Clinton from the right on Social Security and health care. BTW, anything but single payer sucks in the health care arena.

[KaptBunnyPants]

139. I agree with your two points, but no one needs to prove that they don't worship Obama.

That's just a loser talking point from the loser Clinton faction.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

142. Since I am a default supporter...

I can think of a few!

McClurkin
Using the stanard BushCo. lines about Chavez
Chiding Carter for his ME visit
His health care plan is seriously inadequate, but is better than Clinton's industry giveaway

THose are the things that are jumping out right now -- give me time, I am sure I could come up with others.

[smiley_glad_hands]

143. McClurkin & the Raygun comments.

Other than that, I got no probs.

[book_worm]

144. 1) as for policy I agree on health care that his plan should be universal

as for a political mistake, obviously he has to realize that in this technical age that anything we say can be copied and used against him. While I know what he meant to say re: small towns,etc. He didn't say it correctly and I think it cost him a couple of points in PA.

[mkultra]

145. my two

1) i wish he would be more fluid in the debates.

2) he needs to ease up on religion.

[olkaz]

146. Shouldn't have fired Samantha Power and should have adopted Edwards' Health Care Plan

In fact, he should adopt about everything from Edwards.

We'd be in a lot better shape right now with him.

[Danger Mouse]

147. One last kick...for the afternoon crowd.

[NobleCynic]

148. 1. Not walking off the stage of the ABC debate

2. Failing to secure Edwards' backing

[Hepburn]

149. Not going for Hillary's throat IMMEDIATELY; and...

...needs to have better health care platform.

[XemaSab]

150. .

:kick:

[Zachstar]

151. My list

#1 He has not said anything on getting rid of the flawed NASA ARES Program. Hopefully after the primaries this can be an issue he can tackle.

#1 He needs to make fusion a bigger issue. The US NAVY has a fusion program that if successful could be spun off.