Michigan is becoming Clinton's secret weapon, Obama paying a price for "quashing" re-vote

[jackson_dem]

-snip-

While all eyes were locked on Pennsylvania for the last six weeks, Clinton was quietly amassing delegates in the Wolverine State. And she was rewarded this past weekend with a significant victory at the district conventions.

-snip-

Buoyed by party elder support, Clinton seems likely to capture more than 60 percent of the state's 128 pledged delegates, according to an analysis by the Michigan Information & Research Service. Including the 28 superdelegates, which lean heavily in the New York senator's favor, she could win upward of 70 percent of delegates, provided that they're seated with full voting power.

-snip-

It's becoming apparent that Obama should have consented to a revote here. He certainly wouldn't have lost by 15 percentage points or more; polls have pegged the pair in a dead heat. But Obama seemed spooked that Clintonites put forth the plan and the money, so he quashed the do-over last month.

Now Obama is paying the price in delegates, starting with the Michigan Democratic Party's 15 district conventions on Saturday. The Clinton battle plan was flawlessly executed with an eye toward a contested convention. Their delegate roster is crammed with big names like former Gov. Jim Blanchard and Lansing Mayor Virg Bernero.


http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080424/OPINION01/804240315/%201008

[Occam Bandage]

1. Except, you know, they won't be seated. Obama wasn't even on the ballot.

[GoldieAZ49]

11. who took his name off the ballot?

so the DNC seriously wants to go back to 1956 and have a 48 state convention?

I don't think so

[Occam Bandage]

14. Hillary was the only candidate on the ballot. Every candidate agreed that MI and FL

"would not count for anything." You can't change the rules because you're losing.

[GoldieAZ49]

19. Who took his name off the ballot? nt

[Occam Bandage]

21. Obama did, as did Edwards, Richardson, Biden, Kucinich (though he screwed up the paperwork)...

Clinton was the only one who kept her name on the ballot. And even still, she said publicly that MI wouldn't count for anything.

[Tellurian]

30. So, Obama is a follower; Not a LEADER!

Obama is in over his head, if he doesn't know what he's doing running for the presidency!



Don't bother me bro. I'm eating my waffle!

[FatDave]

40. That is the stupidest argument I've ever heard.

And I've heard you make a lot of stupid ones.

[ScarletSniper]

62. ....

[PerfectSage]

102. So your a hunk of shit, who doesn't know jack about leadership...

...cram that waffle up your ass before eating it. It'll taste better.

[FatDave]

44. And even as th eonly name on the ballot, she could still only muster 55%!

Secret weapon my ass. I've never seen a better display of desperation from fools than the likes of Hillary supporters on this board.

:rofl:

[MonkeyFunk]

Four democrats were on the ballot

this is another common lie told by Obama fans. I guess it sounds better to say "Clinton was the only name on the ballot" than telling the truth.

And Obama took his name off the ballot. If you don't run in a state, you shouldn't expect any delegates.

[cali]

88. bwahahaha. Could you be any more dishonest about this?

:rofl:

and tough for hill and you hillworlders; this will be settled before the convention. there's very little doubt about that. and it will be settled without the counting of MI's invalid primary. Obama (likely) or Hill (unlikely) will reach 2024 long before the convention. The nominee will certainly choose to seat MI and Fl.

[MonkeyFunk]

89. Dishonest?

Were there not four democrats on the MI ballot?

[dionysus]

90. dodd and biden or whoever had dropped out... poor kooch, ya know

her and obama where the only ones in the race. the liar is you sir.

[JackORoses]

36. No, Obama will be the Nominee, and he will seat the delegations.

[DemVet]

35. Who in the hell...

...is dumb enough to voluntarily take their name off of a ballot?

[neverforget]

38. Silly Obama for following the rules. In Hillary's world, rules don't count

and only the states that voted for her do.

[DemVet]

41. Hillary only signed an agreement not to campaign there...

...the actual election was another matter entirely.

[guruoo]

54. Have you a copy of this signed agreement?

[bluetrain]

67. I'd like them to release this, too. Both of them. Whatever it was they signed.

[guruoo]

75. Obamas claim there is a signed agreement, but none has yet to provide a copy.

[neverforget]

78. Hillary must've had her fingers crossed when she agreed that Michigan wouldn't

count.

[bluetrain]

47. I doubt it was stupidity. This was a political maneuver just like everything else.

He comes out with a clear lead if throw away two of the United States.

[otohara]

57. The One's Who Played

by the rules.

We now know why she left her name on the ballot, theft was always a possibility. Just in case things didn't go as planned.

[bowens43]

2. more nonsense

give it up michigan is not going to happen

[BearSquirrel2]

3. You people are such liars ...

You folks are such liars. Obama has done very well in states surrounding Illinois. Obama did NOT quash a revote. Given his proven record of gobbling up large Hillary wins, he had everything to win.

Clinton on the other hand had an issue that could not be solved and and uncontested delegates in her pocket if she could actually seat them. It was HER PEOPLE who had everything to lose from a revote that would have seen Obama on the ground and Hillary's referendum overturned.

[jackson_dem]

5. Whose cronies killed it in the MI legislature?

Obama got killed in Ohio. Why would he risk another bad loss in Michigan? With MI and FL out he is almost guaranteed, barring a total collapse, of winning the pledged delegate count heading into to Denver. With FL and MI that would not be the case, especially since he would get clobbered in Florida.

[Occam Bandage]

16. He's polling quite well in Michigan. However, Obama, unlike Hillary, respects the party's rules.

[MoonRiver]

77. This was always the game plan.

Dean and Obama sitting in a tree.....

[bluetrain]

10. You're ignoring the facts.

[Capn Sunshine]

28. what facts? The "Hillary has lost so NOW we will count Michigan" facts?

Hillary signed a frikking pledge not to recognize the results.

[guyanakoolaid]

4. Obama didn't lose "by 15 percentage points or more"... he lost by infinity

Because he wasn't. on. the ballot.

Seriously, even in this heated season, I can't see somebody thinking giving Clinton MI delegates would be fair in the slightest. Have we lost that much touch from reality?

[jackson_dem]

7. Too bad Obama instructed his cronies in MI to kill a re-vote

He should now be given uncommitted. Uncommitted won over 80% of the vote in some wards. How did that happen if his supporters didn't have recourse? Conyers and others encouraged Obamites to vote uncommitted.

[guyanakoolaid]

15. So he instructed his cronies to kill a change to the rules both he and Hillary agreed to at the

start of the contest. Sounds about right.

[Occam Bandage]

18. Right. Obama wants to keep the rules intact. Hillary thinks everyone should change the rules

so she can win. It's very unappealing, and I think this kind of gimme-gimme tantrum turns off more people than it attracts.

[jackson_dem]

23. Ironic. This is what Katherine Harris and Jeb Bush argued in 2000 against having a recount...

Obama, using every trick in the rethug playbook. :thumbsup:

[cascadiance]

39. But Bush WAS on the ballot and both AGREED to be in that election...

This was completely different. Hillary and her minions just want to validate a Saddam Hussein style election slate with no opposition as somehow being a "representative vote" which is utter BS!!

[Hawkeye-X]

27. Please provide proof or link that Obama ordered the killing of the re-vote..

I don't see anything on Google based on what you said.

As usual, you're nothing but full of hot air.

Hawkeye-X

[cascadiance]

48. You are leaving out that she was OFFERED a caucus revote and she TURNED IT DOWN!

Caucuses would have been cheaper and less time consuming to do at the last minute and were more practical, even if Clinton didn't like them as much (because they're grass roots nature workst against her mass marketed style of campaigning that grass roots "activists" don't like).

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-2008/2008/03/07/clinton-says-no-to-a-caucus-do-over.html

Now if she wanted a real primary to happen, perhaps her campaign should have volunteered to pick up the cost differential between a caucus and a primary and then perhaps a deal could have been made. It's getting a little late for that now and that's why that re-vote effort was later shut down.

[quantass]

6. Poor jackson_dem,,,still desperately seeking, i see.

:boring:

[jackson_dem]

8. Do you disenfranchise British Columbia in Canada?

[Occam Bandage]

17. Michigan voted to disenfranchise itself.

[DearAbby]

9. So has Michigan figured out

How to get around the Judge's decision the vote was illegal and unconstitutional?

[OzarkDem]

12. Obama refused to negotiate a resolution

Why would any MI delegates support him when he fought all efforts to reach a compromise?

[jackson_dem]

26. The Clinton camp even offered to help foot the bill for a re-vote

Obama greeted that with silence. Anyone with common sense knows who had a motive to kill a re-vote. It was Obama. He succeeded in both Florida and Michigan. In Michigan in particular it was very obvious. Who led the fight against a re-vote? Tupac Hunter. Who is he a big supporter of? You guessed it...

[Hawkeye-X]

29. Explain to me, knowing that Clinton is heavily in debt, how can Clinton foot the bill?

And also, why would a candidate *attempt* to purchase an primary election? Answer me that - thanks.

Hawkeye-X

[Hawkeye-X]

87. I'm going to take your silence as follows:

"I'm dumber than a rock, and I don't know what the fuck I am talking about, as usual".

Hawkeye-X

[thunder rising]

13. It is ILLEGAL to privately fund an election!!! GET A CLUE

[rniel]

20. Well

Let's just take hillary's name off the ballot for the next primary and see how well she does. Then we'll all brag about we beat her by double digits. he he

[BeyondGeography]

22. "Delegates" from an election where one candidate's name was on the ballot

A great strategy...if you want civil war.

[jackson_dem]

24. Are you going to riot in Denver with Rush and his pals if 10% of the nation is enfranchised?

[Capn Sunshine]

31. are you one of them?

sure seems like it at times. Everything you write is provocative to the extreme, just like this thread.

[jackson_dem]

32. Just words. Obama killed re-votes in states with populations of 28 million

Yet you whine about posts but not about the right to vote. Rethugs? It is rethugs who perfected the disenfranchisement technique.

[anonymous171]

25. His not being on the ballot makes it illegitimate.

[jackson_dem]

33. His killing a re-vote makes counting the MI results the only realistic option now

Just give O all of "uncommitted".

[cascadiance]

51. Counting a "NON-Election" is not an option...

This wasn't a viable election by any means. A very high percentage of Democratic voters who would have voted in it otherwise either stayed at home or voted in the Republican primary. You are DISENFRANCHISING them even more so by validating this charade.

There may be no option for Michigan or Florida voters to participate in the actual primary vote deciding the nominee, but by going for the 50/50 split vote arrangement, at least a lot of delegates can participate in other convention party business (aka building the party platform, etc.). That's what makes the 50/50 split option worth it (and still allow it to be fair to the process selecting the nominee).

[jackson_dem]

56. Killing a re-vote and then demanding half the delegates be handed to you is not an option

[cascadiance]

86. Yup, if Hillary wanted to kill a caucus revote that was proposed, SHE should step up to pay...

... for a primary revote, etc. and provide people to help with accelerating making the ballots, etc. if she's going to want everyone to play by HER rules and not the party's and it's constituency's rules! America is sick of everything bowing to the Clintons "rule"! It's probably too late now to get HER choice of wanting a primary instead.

Otherwise these states need to give up on trying to affect the party's choice for the nomination, and settle for having a split delegation so that they can have a voice in other matters. THEY f'd up! THEY didn't play by the rules! THEY should have their state officials fired or removed from office!

[hendo]

68. Didn't you know?

The only way HRC can win this is if Obama isnt on the ballot in any of the remaining states.

Lie, Cheat, Steal, and marry a chronic womanizer, the HRC way.

edit: spell check

[cliffordu]

34. Whatever you do, don't admit this denial of Michigan was

just fucking fine with her as long as she was a 20 point favorite..she signed off on it.

Yet another lie by hillary, and more specious bullshit from you....

FAIL

[ProSense]

37. So her secret weapon is something she's been trying to push unsuccessfully for weeks?

Video: "It's not a very long run. It'll be over by Feb. 5."

The Delayed Outrage For Florida and Michigan, and Hillaryis44(Update)


Hillary lost!

[jackson_dem]

58. The credentials committee doesn't meet until the convention

[Avalux]

42. So they broke the rules and Obama should be punished for following them.

That's how the minds of Clinton supporters work. To hell with the rules, we can do whatever the hell we please as long as it makes Hillary the nominee! :eyes:

[merh]

49. sounds like Bush doesn't it

He thinks he is above the law and doesn't have to follow them.

Hillary thinks she is above the law and all her supporters here who don't have a problem with this "plan" seem to think so too. They are as bad as any Bushbot that still thinks he is wonderful, despite his failures and his low approval ratings.

[rodeodance]

43. REC

[merh]

45. Gee, you mean clinton will take the delegates when Obama

wasn't even on the ballot?

Cheating and desperate - does she take candy from babies too? :shrug:

x(

[Condem]

46. Jackson

I respect the shit out of you. When are you going to realize that it's over? You've put up THE great fight.

[jackson_dem]

59. If Clinton loses IN I will concede defeat

[Condem]

64. Jackson, you are a man of principle.

[Alexander]

83. We'll hold you to that.

[stevietheman]

50. Obama is the presumptive nominee. Cut the crap. n/t

n/t

[kevinbgoode]

52. Hillary is determined to lose the fall election, isn't she?

Michigan broke the rules. Hillary agreed to the rules. No one agreed to letting Hillary attempt to dictate new rules.

The state party made its choice.

[ShortnFiery]

53. Hello? Obama did NOT quash a re-vote. The MI delegates nixed it. Get your facts

straight! :grr:

Perhaps if HRC did not consider the Democratic Nomination her birthright and not have PERSONALLY showed up the exact day that the vote was taken in the MI State legislature, something could have been worked out?

They (some reps) offered "a caucus" that worked out *just fine* for HRC's husband in 1992 and 1996 ... but HRC NOW, all of a sudden caucuses are deemed "unfair" within The Clintonian Universe.

Get this straight. The STATE DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVES of both MI and FL disenfranchised their own people by trying to "bait the primary system" by moving up their primaries against DNC rules. The DNC gave them EVERY OPPORTUNITY correct themselves ... to follow the rules but they still volitionally CHEATED. MI and FL will NOT be added to the total count and that is the fault of their States' Democratic Party Representatives not the DNC.

No Slack! :grr:

[jackson_dem]

61. Yeah, Tupac Hunter, who led the fight, had no horse in the race

:sarcasm:

Having a caucus is another way to rip a page straight out of the rethug playbook: suppress voter turnout. The highest turnout any caucus has had is 16% and that was Iowa. Since then they range from 1.9%-10%, usually toward the lower end of this range. Primaries have 27-40% turnout. Obama wanted to suppress the vote. He wants to suppress votes and also not count votes that have been cast. Sound like any "uniter" you know?

[F.Gordon]

66. Obama's main objection to a Michigan re-vote...

.. was that voters that participated in the Republican Primary would not be eligible (per DNC rules) to vote in a Democratic re-vote Primary. You know, those same voters that participated in "Operation Chaos" :eyes:

All Obama had to do was sign off on the approval and it would have been a done deal. Instead, his lawyers stalled the Michigan Legislature long enough to prevent anything from happening in the time frame required.

No matter how you spin it... Obama said "fuck you" to the voters of Michigan.

[kwenu]

55. Not a problem. Their delegates may be seated but only in accordance with Obama's consent.

Along with Hillary's consent. If you've been paying attention to the DNC you should know this.


That likely means 50-50.

[Bonobo]

60. How did Obama "quash" the re-vote. Can you give us some links or just hot air?

[GoesTo11]

63. 70% of 0 = ??

If Hillary wants to make Obama lose the GE, she can do it. Yes She Can!

[jackson_dem]

65. Has the credentials committee met? I

[GoesTo11]

82. If HRC wins the delegates w/o MI, the credentials committee can do what they want

[AtomicKitten]

69. Good luck selling that POS argument.

[Gore1FL]

70. Perhaps if Hillary concentrated on winning contests

as much as she wasted time on gaining unseated delegates, she wouldn't have lost the nomination.

[wileedog]

71. 300,000 people in MI voted for Hillary in an *OPEN* primary

Which means some of them were not even Dems.

That is less than 3% of the population.

Considering that an even smaller percentage of that is going to care enough about the Primary vote to actually get so upset as to not vote or switch allegiances, this is an empty threat at best hoisted up by a samll vocal minority trying to influence an already lost election.

This is pure bullshit.

[IndianaGreen]

72. In 1939 Hitler told the Reichstag that Poland had attacked Germany

Hillary is as big a liar as Hitler!

[zulchzulu]

73. So what if Michigan Democratic leaders don't give a fuck about rules....

...what the hell are rules for anyway? Yunno?

I'm being victimized...by rules!!!!

:crazy:

[highprincipleswork]

74. The Pledge That They took

The pledge reads, in part, "I shall not campaign or participate (emphasis added) in any state which schedules a presidential election primary or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina..."

So, that is what they agreed to. They agreed, among other things "not to participate". That is why they removed their names from the ballot. That is why her participation is and was bogus and any claim to any votes there is bogus also.

Additionally, in all proposed revotes, other than caucuses, people who voted in the Republican primary (as a number from dailykos did), could not vote in the revote. This would have been just another form of disenfranchisement.

[Ravy]

79. So they both also broke that agreement in Florida.

One just broke it a bit further than the other. Neither gets the high ground.

[AtomicKitten]

76. And Hillary will play a price for her minions disseminating and spreading lies about this.

[2rth2pwr]

80. Obama wants to silence the people's voices in Michigan.

[RBInMaine]

99. YEAH, KEEP DRINKING HER COLL-AID LIES. SHE AGREED TO THE RULES !!!

[krkaufman]

81. And touting Michigan delegates and votes is becoming her biggest laugh line

Even her own surrogates are hesitant to talk-up Michigan, knowing how ludicrous it would be for the state to be counted with most other candidates not even on the ballot.

[TragedyandHope]

84. I would just point out that cheating

in most contexts, academic or professional, will earn you a failing grade and perhaps a suspension or firing. Hillary seems to think that she can get away with something that if done by an average citizen in any other arena would result in a pay cut at minimum and more likely termination and disbarment, if not prosecution.

If we think of this race and the General Election as the process of hiring our next President, would you ever hire someone or can you think of any employer that would hire someone who blatantly attempts to violate the rules to improve her chances? No, I thought not.

[datopbanana]

85. this is laughable. the HRC campaign has degraded into "ifs" and "buts"

IF michigan counted

IF florida counted

IF we were using GOP rules

IF BO wasn't so damn inspiring

IF wright had come up earlier

IF the media wasn't so mean to HRC

give me a break.................

[Dinger]

91. I Wonder If Obama Is So Confident, That He Feels He Can Win A GE Without Them?

Something tells me that's not quite the case, because that wouldn't make sense, and I have never thought of Obama as dumb, that's for sure.
Hillary isn't dumb either, not by a long shot, and yes, she might feel that MI & FLA would favor her candidacy, but I think she also knows that we just cannot afford to ignore the voters of both states, not now, and not in the GE.

[Bensthename]

94. So they wont be aloud to vote in the Gen?

Or they will think that since they did not vote in the primary they will just vote for McCain or not vote? That is a childish thought.

A dem preferring to keep the Iraq war going and Bush tax cuts just because their state broke the rules? Nah, I dint think so..

[Dinger]

96. They Do Get To Vote (Don't They?)

I admit that I don't know the rules on this like I should, but I am guessing that MI & FLA can vote in the GE, but they will likely be pissed if their states are left out of the primary process, to whatever extent that might be. I'd be pissed if it were me.

[Bensthename]

98. yah, they get to vote in the gen election. The states knew

that they had jeopardized their primary vote.. I'm sure they wont take their frustrations from their state out on the general just to get McCain elected.. AAAAAhh, that would be horrible.

[ProSense]

92. Did you hear the one about Hillary camp's hypocrisy:

McAuliffe, circa 2004: Michigan "will not get seated" if they break rules

[Bensthename]

93. In the end... HILLARY STILL LOSES and OBAMA WINS.

:party:

[dchill]

95. ! ! ! RED-STRAW HERRING-DOG ALERT ! ! !

Another ball of crud brought to you by the ever-bitter, self-deluding jackson_dem!

These delegates can do whatever they want. They will only be seated after there is a nominee. Did you hear the one about how the Michigan Democratic Party broke the DNC Primary Rules? Didja? No revote for you!

[RBInMaine]

97. SPIN SPIN SPIN !! MI broke the rules. In '04 HillFAN McAuliffe threatened MI with the SAME thing !

MI and FL WILL be seated, and Obama agrees that a FAIR way do it should be found. SLICK HILLY is LYING again about this entire matter since she STRONGLY agreed to the rules last summer ! SHAME ON YOU HILLARY (AGAIN !!) !!

[Warren DeMontague]

100. "quashing"???? Only a latte-sucking, prius-driving, elitist weenie would use a word like "quashing".

Hey, do you hold your pinkie up in the air with your brie hand as you whine about how you're getting "quaaaaaaaaaaashed"? Maybe you enjoy some quiche with your quashing. Yeah, that's it, you whine to your liberal elite weenie friends about how you're getting quashed-- over quiche.

Quiche and lattes.

"Quashed." Waaaaaah! :rofl:

[NeedleCast]

101. Check My Math Here

60% of 0 is....what? Zero?