Incoming. New round of Clinton for VP talking points. Obama wins WITHOUT Hillary or

[blm]

Obama can't win without Hillary.

And notice - it's always the Clinton people pushing the VP scenario.

This poll is to tell them what you REALLY think.

[crankychatter]

1. You forgot "Obama loses GE WITH HRC as VP"

just sayin

[rucky]

2. There's a negotiation going on. get it?

this is a step in the right direction, folks.

[crankychatter]

5. nope i'm a little thick

thum are thicker than otherth

I actually LOOK like that guy without his choppers in your pic

I see that and I think, "hmmm, do I need a shave?"

you must remove it now

u r right... it is a step

accept our Soviet style MI/FL elections or WE WILL BURY YOU

I can see Clinton at the negotiations frankly, pounding her shoe on the table.

[rucky]

8. we're working with what we have, here.

[blm]

10. Clintons have known since Super Tuesday that she lost. She would HAVE no power without media pushing

the delusion that she can still win onto Dem voters.

Dems need to ask WHY corpmedia is doing this for Clintons. They have known the truth since Super Tuesday and the survey of superdelegates that was done shortly after. There is no scenario that had a Clinton win.

And there is no scenario that Obama camp will include Hillary as VP - they know their poll numbers on that already. She puts the General at risk for Obama and for many Dem candidates downticket.


This latest push is ALL Hillary camp.

[rucky]

34. people are still voting for her

and not for Obama.

[blm]

36. people who the corporate media are misleading about her chance to win...would they IF they knew

she has no chance to win the nomination and she's known it since Super Tuesday? They aren't HEARING the truth from the newsmedia.

I warned about this in early March because of the survey I knew McClatchy had taken of ALL the superdelegates right after Super Tuesday.

[crankychatter]

3. OR, gets "Wellstoned"... to be honest

it's the War

it was the War with JFK and LBJ

it was the War with RFK and Nixon

it was the War with MLK and Nixon

it was the War with Wellstone and Bush

it's the War with Obama and Clinton or Bush/McSame

it's the War

[CakeGrrl]

4. Exactly. All they want is to be a heartbeat from the presidency...namely Obama's. nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

13. You forgot the obligatory "Vince Foster" n/t

[goletian]

6. obama might have fewer chances of winning WITH hillary shouldve been an option - nt

[sandnsea]

9. That's precisely right

First there are the hoards of people who hate her, then there is the fact that he's been running that she is status quo DC politics. He can't turn around and put her on the ticket. It makes no sense.

[lumberjack_jeff]

14. Why does actively pushing away 15 million hrc supporters improve the math? n/t

[sandnsea]

20. Are we pushing away Biden, Dodd, Gravel, supporters??

Nobody is pushing away anybody. She lost. That's life. He ran against her kind of politics and the people said no. It doesn't make a bit of sense to think you can turn around and say, ooops, just kidding, and those same people will stay on board. They won't. I'm sorry you don't understand how badly she's lied to you, how bad Clinton policies have been for the world, but it doesn't mean it isn't true.

[lumberjack_jeff]

22. Better get that memo to Randi Rhodes, stat. n/t

[sandnsea]

25. Well that's helpful

I do not understand the wilfull denial of Hillary supporters anymore than I understood it of Bush supporters.

[lumberjack_jeff]

28. You don't think that calling 15 million Clinton voters "white trash"...

... has the effect of pushing away those voters?

It is as if the Obama movement has convinced itself that it can print its own get out of jail free cards. They can say literally anything they want about the democratic voters they'll need to retain, because "only an idiot's judgement of the candidate is shaped by the behavior of his supporters". Supporters convince themselves that those who are turned off by being called "ignorant white fucks" are morally unsuitable, and would just dilute the purity of the movement anyway.

[sandnsea]

31. No more than calling Obama supporters "kool aid drinkers" n/t

[newmajority]

7. I think my own thread makes it clear where I stand.

But I'll kick and recommend this one as well. NO SYMPATHY VP SLOT FOR HILLARY!!!

[flpoljunkie]

11. If Hillary steals Dem nomination, money will pour into McCain's campaign. His, GOP nightly prayer...

[lumberjack_jeff]

15. I thought that it was the Obama supporters who are "the real Democrats"?

I get so confused.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

12. That splashing sound you hear is Hillary trying to grab that last straw of ambition.

[Bucky]

16. Nominating her for VP would also make her look like a liar.

To nominate Clinton for VP would pretty much validate all the arguments that she has put out against him being nominated for president--specifically that he's not ready to serve. It would look like he's bringing in someone who can handle the 3am phone calls.

There's another, and arguably a bigger, problem. If Obama could still show, through the campaign, that he's still the 3am guy, that he's the CinC and Clinton is there for balance, he could probably pull off putting her in #2 slot. However pulling off such a trick would depend on Clinton staying perfectly and consistantly on message. Clinton is a tough campaigner, but she lacks the "message discipline" required to stay in Obama's shadow. She can deftly change arguments to suit the needs of the moment--which is an important skill and one she is good at applying. But staying on message when the message is one she's already publicly disputed is putting her in a dicy situation.

If someone asks her why Obama is ready for the Oval Office when she spent millions in the Spring saying otherwise, it would be all too easy for her to slip and add in "And of course, I'll be there in case President Obama needs expertise in a crisis." That right there is your Fox News soundclip for the next six weeks.

His own VP wavering from on Obama's readiness for office one iota will weaken public confidence in our candidate--and only she would be in a position to cause this exposure as it has been uniquely her campaign's thesis that Obama isn't quite up to snuff. To be successful, Obama above all else must put this notion in the dirt. It's bound to be a centerpeice of the Republican campaign.

So, Clinton on the ticket (1) validates the "he's not ready" argument, (2) places the burden of disproving this key argument against his candidacy on the very messenger who popularized it, (3) puts her in the untenable position of arguing the exact opposite of what's she's been saying for months, and (4) makes her look like a liar in the process, playing perfectly into her biggest weakness, the fact that only 40% of the country even thinks she's honest and trustworthy.

[lumberjack_jeff]

17. Obama can win without Hillary, I think.

Obama can win with Hillary, for sure.

A dozen congressional seats will fail if Hillary supporters stay home.

[blm]

19. why would they stay home?

.

[lumberjack_jeff]

21. Hillary supporters will stay home if they are sufficiently alienated by the Obama campaign

... but can't bring themselves to vote for McCain.

[blm]

23. why? No real commitment to choice, or labor, or to open government?

Oops - strike that - of course, they aren't committed to open government, or they wouldn't be voting for Hillary, a closed government Democrat in the primary, either.

No - seriously, are you saying that Hillary voters have no commitment to core Dem issues? That seems awfully insulting and presumptuous. I think many are just loyal to the brand name Clinton at this point but ARE STILL COMMITTED to Dem issues.

Don't think of everything in a narrow two month timeframe. When the general battlelines are drawn it is highly unlikely that Dems committed to Dem issues will stay home.

[lumberjack_jeff]

26. Because they are human beings.

They dislike being ridiculed and condescended to. Just exactly like you're doing right now.

No ones commitment is so firm that it can permanently withstand the elitist barrage that I see among the Obama movement. Eventually the voters who don't pass your purity test will become disillusioned.

The Republicans are happy to have 'em.

[blm]

29. Sell your demands to someone who'll meet your 'ransom'

I think you all are at the pathological point, by now.

YOU are the ones insulting Clinton voters by pushing they idea they are stubborn and too narrowminded to see the big picture.

[Hippo_Tron]

32. I don't see how Obama's campaign has alienated Hillary supporters

In the real world nobody reads what is posted on DU (much of it has been nasty indeed). I think her supporters will warm up to Obama once he is the nominee.

[lumberjack_jeff]

38. I do hope that this is not representative of the real world. n/t

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

18. I believe this is referred to as "the bargaining stage"

Next comes depression, then acceptance.

[AtomicKitten]

24. The Clintons are certifiably delusional.

[bigwillq]

27. Obama will

win without Hillary. :bounce:

[ampad]

30. The desperation is showing

From her camp and her supporters. All this talk about we will stay home and what not. I get the feeling most of them that are still hanging on plan to vote for McCain no matter what. All this be nice to me or I will withhold my vote is childish. If these people actually cared about the well being of this country they wouldn't be talking such madness. Voting for McCain, what in the hell would make someone who claims to be progressive do such a thing? I hope that when the time comes that Obama will pick a true Dem as a running mate. Someone who doesn't have negatives in the 50's, someone who will not make independent voters gag.

[invictus]

33. Hillary as VP would severely HARM Obama's chances in the GE. Most people don't trust her. n/t

[Pisces]

35. He doesn't need her on the ticket. She will only bring him down. All of the repub

hits would still come at them.

[jackson_dem]

37. Obama's best shot is with Webb

Webb has:

1) Indisputable credentials on security
2) Is from the South and could potentially turn VA blue
3) Is the tribune of working class whites, Obama's achille's heels

If Obama is to have a shot in the GE he needs James Webb.

You forgot a third option: Obama loses the GE either way.

[EFerrari]

39. I noticed that, too, right after PA.

She was making a come back BUT a unity ticket is needed to win.

[anonymous171]

40. OK-Someone please explain to me why having Hillary as VP will kill Obama in the GE?

Logically.

[Crunchy Frog]

41. I don't think we can win with Hillary on the ticket, period.

I think it would mean a guaranteed loss. I really don't get this talk, she adds absolutely nothing to the ticket.

[blm]

42. It's become her RANSOM - she won't give up attacking Obama unless she gets her RANSOM.

.