Do We Owe A Barack Obama Nomination to the AA Dems?

[demwing]

I'm not the most prolific poster, but a simple check of my posting history should tell you that I support Obama. That being said, I had an interesting discussion with a friend at work. He's an African-American Democrat, and today revealed that he thought the Democratic party owed it to the AA community to do everything in its power to support a Barack Obama candidacy.

"Even if he loses the election in November" my friend stated, "This is the closest that we've ever come to putting a black man in the White house. If the party backs away, I'll see it as a betrayal."

My friend also said he thought of Obama's candidacy as reparations, of sorts.

I'm a 44 year old white male, with a decent job and education. I can only empathize with the experiences of my friend and his family. I simply did not know how to respond to him, other than encourage him that I believed in my heart that Obama would win the nomination, and go on to become president. We ended the conversation with an agreement to both donate to Team Obama before the end of the day. So I sent out my $25 bucks.

In your opinion, is my friend off base with his beliefs? Do we owe the African-American community -- probably the heart and soul of the Democratic party -- the opportunity to run in a general election?

If so, don't we also owe the same to the women's rights movement?

Where the hell do we draw the line?

If you have some solid advice on how I can discuss this with my very good friend, please speak up. I could use the perspective.

[leftofcool]

1. We do not owe either one

[demwing]

9. I want to make sure I'm clear

I'm not asking if we owe it to Obama, or if we owe it to Clinton, but do we owe it to the ethnic/gender bases that they represent?

The comment about reparations got to me, I have to admit it.

[newmajority]

2. We owe a Barack Obama nomination to the entire country.

We have an opportunity to end the 28 year downward toilet spiral of this country brought on by the destruction of the middle class as practiced by the BushClinton dynasty.

We dare not waste it.

[JerseygirlCT]

5. I agree. We owe it to the country to nominate and then elect

the best person for the job - Obama.

[TheDoorbellRang]

12. That would be my answer, too

:thumbsup:

[Cha]

20. Totally..our country has been through enough.

We need Obama who just happens to be Black and White.

[TahitiNut]

40. As long as he's earned it, ubetcha.

:thumbsup:

[PoliticalAmazon]

3. No candidate is entitled to the support of any voter(s).....

...Perhaps if you posed the opposite to him, he would think about it a little more: "What if I told you that I believe the Democratic Party owes white voters the election Hillary Clinton?"

No candidate is entitled to the vote of any voter. The candidate must earn it.

[woolldog]

27. that wouldn't make sense.

every democratic presidential nominee has been white.

[JVS]

4. We owe ourselves someone better than McCain or Clinton. Obama is that someone.

[marimour]

6. NO. You owe the person who is winning (OBAMA) the right to run in the general.

If he is not given it because he is seen as not as electable (aka "we don't think whites will vote for him"), then I will see it as a betrayal to the AA community.

[roseBudd]

75. To give the nom. to HRC via SDs would be morally repugnant, HRCs argument

that racist whites prefer her and since there are more whites than blacks she should be the nominee goes against everything the Democratic party stands for. If you think that is OK then you are not a Democrat.

[PoliticalAmazon]

7. No candidate is entitled to any voter's vote. n/t

...Perhaps if you posed the opposite to him, he would think about it a little more: "What if I told you that I believe the Democratic Party owes white voters the election Hillary Clinton?"

No candidate is entitled to the vote of any voter. The candidate must earn it.

[Adelante]

8. We owe an Obama presidency to all Americans

Including me, an old white lady.

[kenny blankenship]

10. Clearly he's earned it. He's ahead and he's going to finish ahead

What are "AA"s to make of a refusal to award him the nomination when no one has a better claim to it?

If I were an "AA" I would send an FU to the DP for the rest of my life by staying home on election days.
I might get over it - after about 50 years.

[democrattotheend]

11. No, but we owe it to them to work our asses off to get him elected if he is the nominee

I don't think that Obama's nomination is owed to the African American community any more than Clinton's nomination is owed to women. But I think that in either case, we owe it to our loyal supporters in these constituencies to work harder than we have ever worked before to get the first African American candidate or the first woman candidate elected in November. It's not going to be easy to get a black man or a white woman elected, and we are going to need to be united as a party behind the nominee and have all hands on deck if we have a prayer of pulling it off.

[JerseygirlCT]

13. I've heard essentially the same argument used by some

women to support Clinton's candidacy.

Either way, I disagree.

It's a marvelous thing that we've finally arrived at the point where a woman and a black man are both serious contenders for the presidency. And long overdue, too.

But we owe only the best candidate to the country. And the best candidate would be a good thing for all Americans, regardless of race or gender.

[DJ13]

14. No, we dont "owe" them

But it would be political suicide for the GE to overrule the candidate leading in delegates (who happens to be 1/2 AA) and piss off the AA base of our party by choosing the losing candidate instead.

It has nothing to do with race, it has everything to do with being smart.

[roseBudd]

77. "it has everything to do with being smart." and it also has everything to do with being fair

[Barack_America]

15. Obama has already won the nomination via pledged delegates...

Do I expect the party to honor this victory and give it to him? Yes. Simply because he's black? No. But if they take it away from him because he's black, I'm done with the Democratic Party.

[demwing]

16. Im not asking if we owe it to Obama, or Hillary.

Im asking what you think of my friend's statement that we owe Obama TO the African-American community. The voting block that has been the cornerstone of the party for SO long.

If we can discuss reparations for slavery, can that discussion be extended to reparations for being denied the vote, diminished in the vote, charged for the vote, and threatened to keep them from voting.

That was his point.

We owe it to the African-American community.

[Orangepeel]

17. The party owes us all to treat the candidates fairly

If superdelegates were to vote in a way that gave the nomination to someone other than the person who won the most pledged delegates, and it was believed that part of the reason was that that person, who was African American, couldn't win the "white vote" or would be damaged by an association with his radical black preacher, I think that African American Democrats would have the right to be upset, to say the least.

[LakeSamish706]

18. Maybe or maybe not but I would be more than happy to give the AA's and any other...

ethnic group there dues for supporting Barack.... Thank you, Thank you, and Thank you.... Now lets get him into the White House.

[barack the house]

19. The whole repairations thing is really deep. That would say he'd forgive folk for slavery katrina

and things like it. It made me tear up that very touching.

[ej510]

28. If she passes him in pledged delegates then she deserves it.

[demwing]

31. YES! I felt the very same way

this aspect of the conversation, beyond anything else, is what broke my heart. I really felt that if we let this opportunity pass us by, we have failed an entire people. We are in their debt.

Time to pay our share.

[anigbrowl]

21. I'd put it this way...

if he keeps his lead, the Dem party owes it to the AA community not to derail him with some intangible argument along the lines of 'people just aren't ready yet'. He's winning, against a candidate who's as close to 'party royalty' as you can get. Hillary's first ever run for office landed her a senate seat; that was a pretty big hand up.

[lynne]

22. The nomination is owed to the best candidate regardless of sex or color. /eom

[sandnsea]

23. Obama has won, he's owed the win

The supers should not give it to Hillary. That's what I think he meant and I agree with that. Just because there are more women than AA's, it doesn't mean we can dismiss the AA's because they have been the heart of this party even when women have voted for "security".

[crispini]

24. I am sure Obama means a LOT to this person.

I was pollgreeting for some local candidates here; one of my fellow pollgreeters was a black guy for some other candidate. We said hi, exchanged a few pleasantries, etc. Seemed like a nice guy.

Later in the day the Obama folks showed up and gave a out a few signs. He came over and showed me the sign he'd gotten. I pointed to it and said, "The next President of the United States, right there!" and his face just LIT UP with the biggest smile I'd ever seen in my life.

It was then I began to see the depth of what this candidacy meant.

I like Hillary, but I don't think we need another Clinton in the white house. I'm tired of the 1990s and how "great" they were, in an OLD style great. We need a new paradigm; we need new thought. I sincerely hope Obama can bring us that.

If you want to discuss it with him, why not just listen? He's probably going to teach you something you don't know.

[demwing]

25. What about the reparations angle?

Do you believe we owe reparations to the descendents of slaves?

If you do, then could you accept a similar argument for reparations due to the descedants of a whole subset of Americans that were denied equal representation, denied the right to vote, and as a direct result, denied the right to affect the laws of this country and the destiny of an entire people?

[Window]

26. As an African-American I say no, we are not owed the presidency...no one is,

black or white, male or female, unless he/she is qualified. I don't agree with your co-workers opinion at all, and I have yet to hear another African-American say anything close to that.

As a matter of fact, most of the black people I know do not believe America will ever have a black president. They hope and pray it will happen; they admire Sen. Obama and think he would make a fine president, they just don't believe white America will let it happen, ever. Sad, but true.

[woolldog]

30. honestly I feel the OP is probably distorting what his friend said.

[demwing]

35. I was very careful to not add my words to his.

So think what you like. :)

[woolldog]

39. you didn't put his words in quotes.

I'd like to know his exact words. I just think you may have missed what he was getting at (unintentionally or intentionally I don't know). That's all.

[demwing]

42. I think you misread. I did put his words in quotes.

"Even if he loses the election in November" my friend stated, "This is the closest that we've ever come to putting a black man in the White house. If the party backs away, I'll see it as a betrayal."

[woolldog]

43. my apologies. I misread.

[demwing]

44. Its all good

no offense taken. Though I was nervous, for some reason, about making this post. The conversation he and I had was friendly, but he had never spoken so openly about something that I could tell was so raw.

I really tried hard to get that through without tinting it with the hues of my perspectives.

[goclark]

29. I'm AA and no America does not owe AA's an AA President

We owe America the Beautiful a President that cares about all of us not just some of us.

We owe America the Beautiful a President that sets an example for our children.

We owe America the Beautiful a President that has "Content in her/his character.

That's why I'm voting for Barack Obama..

[dchill]

32. As a party, as a country, we owe it to ourselves.

So, your friend is off base. But I understand how he feels.

[rwheeler31]

33. The dems would have very little success without AA, they are

the most loyal and stalwart force for progress. I admire their stamina,in this raucous party.

[roseBudd]

78. If Sds give the nom to HRC, downticket house races with high AA% will suffer defeat

[Fovea]

34. We owe it to African Americans to elect Obama

because he is the best candidate.
He isn't the best because he's African-American.

He is the best because he brings the hope.
The other two bring the same old thing.

And many of us can't go on with that.

African-Americans can be proud of Mr. Obama.
But so can I, and that is the point.

[anonymous171]

36. According the Wolfson, the one with the most PD's is owed the nomination

I agree with him.

[quakerboy]

37. We do owe the AA Dems

Not not electing him because he is multiracial.

[RazBerryBeret]

38. as far as elections go...

I'd say we don't OWE anybody ANYTHING....this is too important.
It should be up to the people. period. and people should vote who THEY think will be the best president.
I think we make this harder than it needs to be. IMO..

[psychmommy]

41. this man has was ran a very good campaign.

he has done everything but shed his blood on national tv. hillary is doing everything she can to destroy him and the dnc. the nomination is his. he has shown himself worthy. to deny him and all of his supporters not just the aa community is a wrong of epic proportions. how many elections will be stolen before the people rise up and say enough. i have had enough. the way the tied is turning i am gonna get my ticket. i'll pre order my pitch fork and i'll rustle me up a torch. no more election theft.

[Shae]

45. I don't see Obama's candidacy as a reparation

of any kind. He is an American with the same rights as any American.

And as an American citizen who met all the requirements of being President, Obama had every right to run for the office, and we the people had every right to vote for him or not.

We don't owe Barack Obama the nomination because he is African-American, we owe it to him because he is ahead in delegates, votes, and states won.

[demwing]

46. Again, not asking if we owe the presidency to Obama

Asking if we owe the AA community an Obama presidency.

Two different things.

[Shae]

51. I'm finding it hard to separate the two ...

I guess I'm saying no.

If Obama weren't winning, we wouldn't owe it to him.
If, since he's winning, it were to be taken away from because of race, it would be a wrong not only to African Americans but to the country and to democracy.

So I guess no. We don't owe the nomination to a race or gender unless they have earned it. Obama has earned it.

[rwheeler31]

47. Thank you for a thoughtful thread.

[mmonk]

48. No but when it appears he will be the nominee, he deserves enough

respect not to be knee capped. Why can't we hold this primary like others?

[crankychatter]

49. Obama's nomination: Reparations or Affirmative Action? This IS what you're saying.

your friend is imaginary

on edit: MAYBE I'm gunshy and triggerhappy...

But if this isn't a rhetorical and loaded question, I'll kiss your ass on MAINSTREET.

[demwing]

50. That's funny. He's reading this thread over my shoulder.

And thanks you kindly for your time. Well, thats almost what he said. I cleaned it up, and didn't use quotes. :)

[crankychatter]

53. Well then he might inform you it's entirely possible that...

OBAMA HAS EARNED IT AND DESERVES IT

by the way... you may use that as a morning affirmation for yourself

Look in the mirror, say it every day for a week.

"Obama has earned it. He deserves it. America deserves Obama."

Then you can quit stirring up shit with rhetorical questions, that serve no purpose; but to create doubt where none needs to exist, and to obscure the real issues.

[demwing]

56. OK, your going off.

Thanks for your input. Sorry to offend you :)

[crankychatter]

55. "The more he bragged of his honesty, the faster we counted our spoons." HD Thoreau

too slick by half

nope... I don't believe you.

[demwing]

58. No problem.

Have a good day.

[demwing]

54. LOL, I'll pass on the ass kiss

But it's not rhetorical. We talked, and I dismissed it at first, then thought about it alot, and it got to me. The reparations bit especially. Then, I invited him back to view your reponses. As luck would have it, yours popped up. It's really kind of humorous.

To respond to your question, I am certainly asking if the reparations argument has weight. It seems superficial at first, at least I thought so, but when you consider it, it runs along a deeper course.

Maybe thats what your picking up - all my philosophical batting about of the idea in my head that lead me to share this with DU. The idea is now stuck in my head, but I'm unsure if I am just having an emotional connection with my friend, or truly looking at this rationally, which is why I asked for perspective.

And thats what I'm still after. Perspective from people I trust that are not emotionally connected to the source of the comments.

[truth please]

52. All the African American's I know just want it

to be fair. I don't know any AA that are expecting reparations of any sort. They all feel that he has won fairly and precisely and should get the nomination and support as any other candidate would. We don't want more, just equality and fairness.

[otohara]

68. Simple Solution

to a situation that is not that complicated.

[FrenchieCat]

57. Obama should get the nomination because he earned it. Period.

[demwing]

59. Once more, its not about owing Obama anything

the original question was whether the party owes this to the AA community.

[rwheeler31]

60. You asked the fair ? the answer is yes

[dansolo]

61. It's not a matter of being owed

Obama has been winning this primary fair and square. Hillary had every advantage over him going into this race, and he has beaten her, and hasn't even had to resort to disgusting Republican-like tactics to do it. If he finishes the primaries with more pledged delegates, and the superdelegates decide to give the nomination to Hillary, then African-Americans will rightly conclude that the Democratic Party is not serious when they talk about equal opportunity. That is why they risk losing the African-American vote for a generation if they do this. It has nothing to do with being owed, it has to do with taking away what was rightfully earned.

[brindis_desala]

62. of course not, and doubt that's what was meant.

What your friend seemed to be driving at (IMHO) was that Democrats should not use race to drive a wedge in the party.

Obama did not start out as the community's first choice but after winning Iowa and coming close in New Hampshire he got folks excited. There was no presumption that it was "their turn" or the presidency was "owed" ... he had to earn it. I'm sure that the majority of African Americans understand that Obama will not be effective even IF he is elected president unless the party stands firmly behind him.
From the array of endorsements he has been getting I suspect he has plenty backing.

[NashVegas]

63. If You Want to Put It In Those Terms, I'd Mimic the "Just Not THAT Woman" Camp of Hillary Haters

First, Demwing I'd like to thank you, because I finally think I may have a clue why some anti-HC keep writing those "I'd love to vote for a woman, just not THAT woman," posts as a result of this thread you've started. I didn't realize that they think her gender is our #1 reason for voting for her.

If the #1 reason for having an AA nominee is because we somehow owe it to AAs, then I can think of better: Kweisi M'Fume, for example. Jesse Jackson Sr. (Yah, I know, he tried and lost ... he's still more qualified.)

[zulchzulu]

64. Supporting Obama goes beyond owing anything to anyone

Certainly the women's rights movement has NOTHING to do with Hillary Clinton. Many feel she has pushed the validity that a woman can do it on her own. She has run one of the most shameful campaigns in recent memory. The women's rights movement deserves much better than this.

As for whether "we" owe the African-American community anything regarding Obama's candidacy is at best vacuous. I and many Obama supporters don't consider his race as an issue. His message and leadership goes further than the amount of melanin in his skin pores.

[Warren DeMontague]

65. Tell em not to worry. Obama has won it.

Hillary's people may not like it, but the writing is on the wall. He WILL be our nominee.

[Kokonoe]

66. African Americans have voted for the best choice of presidents

in every election I can remember. Just because it happens to be a democrat does not mean they only vote for democrats.

We owe them heavy gratitude for consistently showing us the direction for America to get well.

And when Obama has so clearly won, from a majority of American democrats finally listening, and agreeing, and voting for him to win.
To have it overturned because the private club box seats just don't think a black person can win the GE,
while smearing him for associations with other blacks no matter how trivially linked, and has no control over what they say or do.
it is a betrayal.

The hand wringers have their feet in the door. Obama already won, and has shown to take care of himself.

[GoesTo11]

67. Better OP subject: Do whites owe ... (not "Do we owe")

Answer: Whites don't owe an Obama nomination to AA Dems.

But whites do owe AA dems zero tolerance for racism in the campaign.

[Beacool]

69. No we don't, not with his razor thin resume.

Obama is no Colin Powell, I mean the heft of his experience and not his politics. If Obama had a similar resume to fall on I would consider him a worthy potential president. But, Obama got in through the fast track and is still an unknown and unproven commodity. Yes, some day we should have an AA president but I don't think that Obama is prepared to be president in 2008. Maybe in the future, but not this year. If Obama is the nominee, I believe that Mccain will be our next president.

[SoCalDem]

70. No.. because he EARNED it

:)

[2rth2pwr]

71. Fuck that.

[VotesForWomen]

72. well golly, don't they "owe" women also? jeezus, elect the best candidate please. nt

[newmajority]

73. We have.

and his name is Barack Obama. :)

[demwing]

81. Well Golly, thats what I asked. Jeezus!

What, did you respond to the subject line without reading the subject matter?

[chyjo]

74. Clinton Logic

According to Clinton Logic Obama should not be the candidate because he can't win the working class white vote which he might have lost 35-65 in PA. By that same logic can Clinton win if she lost the African American vote 8-92? And how can you accept the first point if you deny the latter? At best you can say while the AA population might not vote for Clinton, but they still won't vote for McCain. I think after Bill and Hillary's racist stunts this election cycle some still might go for McCain simply out of righteous indignation and protest. However a Democrat winning the white house without The African American Vote? ROTFLMFAO -- Bill Clinton ONLY got into the White House with the Black Vote, and that was WITH ROSS PEROT SPLITTING THE CONSERVATIVE VOTE.

ON EDIT: I am a 26 year old white guy and an Obama supporter in New York.

[TragedyandHope]

76. We owe our country an Obama Presidency

Obama is the best candidate for the job and will do the best for all Americans and the world community. After 8 years of Bush, we certainly don't need another trigger happy cowboy like Hillary or McSame in the Oval Office.

[goletian]

79. youre friend is wrong.

a black president isnt owed to the aa community' a president is elected for the entire countrys benefit. furthermore, electing obama would not be reparations in any way -- thats absurd. obama is a first-generation african american anyway. while he may be a huge marker of progress in terms of race relations, hes not a gift to compensate for centuries of oppression.

[Vinca]

80. No we don't owe AAs a black candidate and we also don't owe

Clintons a candidacy because they are Clintons.