Excuse Me... But The HARM Hillary Clinton Is Doing To The Democratic Party Is NO JOKE !!!

[WillyT]

Remember how people felt about Nader after 2000?

Fair or unfair... Hillary is about to step into that same tar pit.

And there will be no 2012 election for her!

:shrug:

[dubeskin]

1. I've got to slightly disagree

I feel that, although Hilary is dragging this primary on, it is in the long run benefiting us. We are clearing all the silly non-issues out now, and if McCain tries to bring up flagpingate, or Wrightgate, it will be old news and he'll look silly. Also, by keeping the primary going, the media is focused on us. People are able to see what Obama stands for, as well as get to know him better. McCain's not campaigning now is going to hurt him.

Likewise, I feel that Hilary's presence has sort of rekindled the fighting Democratic spirit in Obama that we'll need to completely destroy the Maverick in November.

[crankychatter]

5. Obama polled way up on McCain until Clinton went berserker

she raised her negatives a lot... Obama's some

she still loses and now McCain gets the lead

it's a steady, trackable trend, directly correlative to her negativity

a FACT, not conjecture

Obama has the proven ability to turn polls around and win

but given little time between the bitter end of this fight and November?

The national voter registration drive he's initiating will alleviate the harm... but the existence of the harm is irrefutable.

[BzaDem]

60. You are right that he has lowered in the polls, however

have you considered that if none of these stories were aired now, they would have been aired once he got the nomination, and then his polls would have dropped then?

In other words, it probably doesn't matter whether this negativity came out now (from Hillary) or later (from McCain after he got the nomination); his polls would have dropped to what they are now regardless.

However, with them being aired now, this slightly benefits Obama, because it makes the arguments stale for the GE (and allows him MORE time to defend himself, as opposed to if all these issues came out in October).

[superkia]

28. I dont know about that? I doubt most Americans really educate...

themselves on the politics going on and the amount of corruption in our government. Just yesterday I had a heated discussion with one of my brothers because he was talking bad about Obama and everything he was saying was just the typical spin that the MSM rams down everyones throats. He actually called Obama an "elitist" and this is from a guy that I have never even heard say the word elite, he pays no attention to current events and usually gets frustrated when I try to educate him on some of the things taking place in our country as he storms off saying " if the government is doing that, there is nothing we can do, so why worry about it until it gets worse and hits home".

I think there is definitely some damage being done to the democrats chances to people like my brother and mother as well, they dont really pay attention, use the media as their source of facts and get frustrated when they here the truth about the shape of our country and government.

On another note, I just found out from my mother, that two of her sisters, like Bush and think he has done good things????? I flipped and said you should have just asked them, what has he done?

[jasmine621]

55. No, it's not a joke. It's a lie.

So sue her for believing in running for President until the end of the season. So sue her for believing that every vote is important and should be counted. So sue her for being a fighter for what she believe in. So sue her not backing down to the false and shameful charges of being racist and for trying to destroy Obama for the GE. So sue her for knowing a little bit more about Americans and America than most dolts out there. So sue her for being smart, fearless, passionate, caring, daring, and unbowed. But don't accuse her of destroying the party. That accusation is just as shameful and pitiful as the faux outrage over her IWR vote. I am really appalled by many of our Democratic insiders and power pols. Their Hillary hate show like a white slip hanging beneath a widow's black mourning dress.

[Double T]

2. Let's exchange 'Hillary' with 'obama' in YOUR OP.

THEN you are right; NO 2012 election for HIM!

[MannyGoldstein]

8. A Little Detail

Obama's got the thing sewn up.

[Double T]

15. ONLY in your dreams, MannyGoldstein.

There is still plenty of time for BO to continue to fall on his face.

[WillyT]

16. And... It Will Be So...

:evilgrin:

[Double T]

20. And I thought Dems OPPOSED TORTURE.

Looks like the NEW WORLD ORDER has infiltrated the Democratic Party.

[WillyT]

22. We Do... We Also Oppose Unnecessary Wars...

Too bad your candidate supports both the current and future ones.

:shrug:

[BlueJac]

56. Hillary is tearing the Democratic Party apart..........

She is poison for the American public. A free trader that got lots of money from the Columbian free trade proposal, and probably some from the Peru deal and CAFTA trade deal. I do not trust them and their $109 million with the future of this once great country. Bill Clinton opened the door for the free trade with NAFTA and people are ignoring that fact! He was the best Republican president in the last 30 years! For God sake he kept that fool Alan Greenspan as the fed chief, a Milton Friedman believer and a true Neo-Nut. If you don't believe that read a book once in awhile and get an education on what is really going on!!

[Maraya1969]

3. Yup and she can say goodby to her senate seat also

[MADem]

4. ....

[WillyT]

7. Oh MAd... Don't You Get It ???

If the SD's overturn this thing and give it to Hillary, the part of the base that is African-American, is Activist, the part that is youthful and idealistic, and the part that is like me and a whole lot of my friends, won't be showing up in November.

We won't vote Republican, and we'll support Dems that make sense down ticket... but we'll probably look at helping build the Green ticket (NOT NADER), such as it is...

But having principles is... pardon the expression... a bitch.

I do hope you understand.

[cliffordu]

11. The green party (sans Nader) sounds better all the time.

But I didn't say that here.

And they wouldn't want me anyway because I am an energy radical to the extreme.

[MADem]

18. Ah, and the "Obama Team" is expecting all of those boomers, geezers, and

post-geezer wheelchair and walker types to forget about all the vicious insults, slings and arrows, and line up smartly? Don't hold your breath on that score, IF they believe that Clinton got shafted and wasn't allowed to compete.

That's why this whole business has to play out, even though the Obama team doesn't like it.

No one is expecting the SDs to HAND this to Clinton. But if she beats Obama in the popular vote, and compellingly, there's a case to be made that she EARNED the nom. After all, our party is all about votes -- we're against voter suppression and we want every vote to count. At least, that's what we say.

And that's what the Obama fans are so deathly afraid of, and that is the reason for the "QUIT NOW!!" frantic posts I see repeated here all day.

Let it play out. On to Indiana. The one who wins at the end of the voting will get the party's support. The supporters who "just can't" for whatever reason vote for our nominee will just need to step the hell aside, and let those of us who see the big picture do what needs to be done.

I'm voting for the nominee. I've said it a thousand times. Even if it turns out to be the candidate I like the least, and have strong reservations about.

[WillyT]

30. But MAd... That's Just It !!!

The popular vote is not determinative. The caucuses DO count. She has to win about 65-80 % of the vote between now and June 3rd to change the math that counts.

Ain't gonna happen.

And the Super D's know that.

If the SD's ignore the math, and overturn the rules...

Dems are toast for year and years to come.

:shrug:

[MADem]

38. The popular vote IS as determinative as any other measure.

And those caucuses, as we all know, are "activist" exercises that disenfranchise the elderly, the hospitalized, the military member, shiftworkers like cops, firemen, medical and retail people, factory workers, cabdrivers, food service workers....

All she has to do is trounce him in the popular vote, and all bets are off. "The math" is one citizen, one vote.

[WillyT]

42. BUT HILLARY AGREED TO THOSE RULES !!!

As did:

John Edwards
Joe Biden
Chris Dodd
Mike Gravel
Dennis Kucinich
Bill Richardson

Are you suggesting that girls need 'helpsies'???

And what happened to "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"???

:shrug:

[cliffordu]

45. DING DING DING We have a winner!!!

Exactly. Much nicer than I would have put it, but yep!!!

[MADem]

48. No, we don't. But we have consolation prizes. NT

[WillyT]

49. Believe Me When I Say... She Ain't Gonna Win Miss Congeniality !!!

:wtf:

:banghead:

[MADem]

52. No, that's usually fourth or fifth place. Nader might get that if he's perky this time. NT

[WillyT]

53. LOL !!! - Good One !!!

:hi:

[MADem]

47. I'm not talking about "those rules." We know full well that popular vote winners

often don't get the delegates they deserve due to "weighting."

"Girls need helpsies?" Come on. Another cheap shot, brought to you by Gender Bias.

[cliffordu]

31. Aw, Come on, Hillary, we told you abou this last week.....

[MADem]

35. Are you a HOPE - CHANGE - BELIEVE supporter?

Could have fooled me! Wow, what a shining example of a TEAM OBAMA member you are! You must be so proud of yourself and your behavior!

Did you get that picture over at your other internet home? Did one of those fellows at that other site put the lettering on for you?

:eyes:


Hope, Change, Believe...Yes, We Can?

By your example....maybe not so much.

Have a nice day.

:hi:

[cliffordu]

37. Nope, just a boomer/geezer tired of the clintons.

:patriot:

[WillyT]

39. LOL !!! - Me Too !!!

BooGeez for Obama, LOL !!!

:bounce::hi::bounce:

[MADem]

41. I'm a boomer/geezer who isn't, and who finds that kind of ridicule

embarrassing to you and our party.

If you don't like the Clintons, you can say so with words. Trying to compare Clinton to Harding is not a very classy move. It's nothing that hasn't been thrown at the Senator before, but it reflects on the one doing the throwing, and not in a good way.

[cliffordu]

44. Your contempt and ridicule of other Dems in various "groups"

is unacceptable.

Tonya devised a 'kitchen sink' strategy of her own....

So, for her nastier supporters, Tonya -

OR:

[MADem]

46. I have no contempt for Democrats at all. Partisan trolls and disruptors, well, that's a different

story. I find them childish and reprehensible.

And if the shoe doesn't fit, don't cram your foot in it.

[Life Long Dem]

43. The sky is falling! Coming to an obliterated theater near you!

[frickaline]

6. couldnt agree less - its democratic posts that sound like GOP posts that harm us more

[Zuper Man]

9. Nader and Clinton are apples and oranges

Nader opposed our Dem. candidate in November, 2000. Clinton will SUPPORT Obama in November.
If and when she runs as an independent, then you would have a case.

[WillyT]

12. Looks Like She's Running As An Independent To Me...

:shrug:

[Bensthename]

10. As long as this is not dragged out past June all should be okay.

And as long as Hillary does not swift boat the supers to vote for her.

[WillyT]

14. I Agree, But Have You Ever Been A Passenger In A Car...

where you swore the driver didn't know where the brake pedal was, and if they did, they didn't know how to use it???

:shrug:

[Bensthename]

24. lol, I agree, and this thing better stop in June and he starts after grandpa in July..

If she tries to drag this out past June then the dem party should hijack her vehicle, turn off the engine and through the keys in the ocean.
I think the supers will stop her after the last primary... I hope..

[TahitiNut]

58. Careful, my friend ...

.... *somebody* is sure to show up and start ranting about how you've demeaned "women drivers" and you be consigned to the Keith Olbermann firing squad.

:rofl:

Insane fucking zealots! :wow:

[Oleladylib]

13. Idiots like to get on these bandwagons..it still leaves them idiots.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

21. That's a pretty clever response....three threads ago n/t

[psychmommy]

17. i will never forget this.

i have lost all respect for her and her husband. he has frittered away not just his legacy but, the dem legacy from the '90s, 2x. we overlooked the other crap (politics of personal destruction)but now he and his wife are the perpetrators of the politics of personal destruction. she is in the tar pit-her and her hubby's integrity are being are getting submerged in the muck.

[VeraAgnes]

19. Hillary will win the Democratic Nomination by June 1st.

Obama has peaked............Ohio and Pennsylvania ....they say it all.

[kid a]

25. Explain.

[KaptBunnyPants]

50. That's just mean.

You know they have nothing. If any of these people could explain how Hillary wins now that she failed to win PA with the supermajority she needed, it would be in one of the posts they spam-recommend constantly. Hillary can't win legitimately. They know it, we know it, and Hillary knows it. I don't think she wants the (2008) nomination at this point. She just wants to hurt the people who rejected her, a la Lieberman. Besides, if Obama loses it proves that only the DLC is in touch with "real" America, not those elitist activist voters.

[Sparkly]

23. Oh for cryin' out loud.

It's called democracy. It's messy. Get used to it. :eyes:

[WillyT]

27. Oh, I'm Used To It...

I've spent several decades trying to swim upstream in a fucking sewer trying to improve it.

And the nearly-coronated one jumps right into the middle of the swill when Plan A goes awry...

Karl would be most proud...

Or is...

:shrug:

[dionysus]

32. best. post. of the day.

:)
:toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast:

[Sparkly]

33. It won't "improve."

There are no saints in this game.

[lutefisk]

34. .

:thumbsup:

:patriot:

[KaptBunnyPants]

51. It was called democracy, but then Obama built an insurmountable lead. Now it's called over.

nm

[Sparkly]

54. So it's not democracy anymore?

[KaptBunnyPants]

57. The people will vote, but unless Obama gets hit by a bus, he's the nominee.

Whether he wins will depend on the loyalty of our so called "fellow" Democrats who are currently claiming that Hillary still has a chance in hell of winning this. If they are as traitorous as they themselves claim, they intend to inflict McCain upon the nation as a punishment for rejecting the glorious one.

[mmonk]

26. Nope, sure isn't. I agree.

[Gloria]

29. Ridiculous....people are voting...

Obama's lack of vetting is the REAL problem...

[WillyT]

36. Yet Obama Isn't Asking To Overturn A Thing... Why Is That ???

Hillary, OTOH, is trying to overturn every rule she agreed to at the start of this process.

:wtf:

[Life Long Dem]

40. People do have short memories, especially when they are 4 years older.

Bill Clinton pointed that out during the snipergate when he said Hillary is older now, and older people don't have as good a memory. Just something to think about from Bill's own mouth.

[Catherina]

59. Except that Nader had the integrity benefit of being in the opposition party n/t

[dailykoff]

61. No it isn't. All this swiftboating is hugely damaging coming from the Clintons.

Anybody who doesn't see that is blind as a bat.

[grassfed]

62. She brought her and her husband's venality into the light for all to see - a good thing

[Beacool]

63. Oh please..........

same old crap!!!!!!!! Hillary is not tearing the party apart, if she had zero traction she wouldn't still be winning primaries.

For the umpteenth time: Millions of people think that Hillary is the better candidate, the most experienced and the most prepared to be our next president. If so many people didn't think so, she wouldn't have won the popular vote in 4 of the last 5 primaries.

So, please stop with the nonsense. Math or no math, too many of us do not think that a) Obama is the better candidate and b) That he is electable in the GE.

[Writer]

64. I would like to see some statistics that support your claim.

Or any evidence whatsoever.

[Toucano]

65. Nader was irrelevent to the 2000 outcome.

Got anything else?

[VotesForWomen]

66. GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEAD: not everyone is in love woth Obama like you are; many of us are glad Cli

Clinton is staying in and we hope she wins. keep in mind that the rest of the country doesn't quite resemble DU.