White Democrats' abysmal performance re: Barack Obama

[Ron Green]

I'm tired of reading the posts about how poorly Obama is doing among this particular demographic. Who are these people, and what are they scared of? Have they read his books? Have they thought about what he represents to this country and the world, symbolically and practically? If this group of voters is composed significantly of people who think Obama is a Muslim, or who think we need a "fighter" in the White House, or who think attacking Iran is probably a good idea, or who think Rev. Wright is anti-American in some dangerous way, then they are idiots, and I hope they're too lost or confused to vote on Election Day.

As a white boy who grew up in the Jim Crow South, I can say that Obama's message - through his books, his speeches, his thoughtfulness, his body language - resonates with me as no other politician's has since Robert Kennedy. If the "White Democrats" of some other posts, among whom Obama is supposed to somehow "perform," can't figure out that his candidacy is the chance of our country's lifetime, they're beyond help.

[crankychatter]

1. k / r

I came.
I saw.
I concurred.

[populistdriven]

2. k& 5th r - don't believe the media spin on this

[panAmerican]

3. Ron, you beat me to posting a reverse thread!

[cliffordu]

4. Beautiful Thank you. K&R

:kick:

[Epiphany4z]

5. Sorry to say just today

while I was at the drug store I overheard the cashier and some old fart talking about how bad Bush is....

I thought well thats a good sign...then they they went on to complain about who was left to vote for ...That woman! or the Muslim!...ok so they are a bit misinformed....

So i get in line and the conversation is still going only now they are onto how you cant shop at the local mall because the blacks are taking it over...

I smiled as she rang me up and said t hats just silly ..I walk up to and around that mall all the time ...all by myself...the old fart said "well look at you ..you can defend yourself" im not sure ...but I am a big boned gal...lmao I think he called me fat...lol ...anyhoo I paid for my stuff and left after thanking the old man for the compliment while giving him the evil eye..point is there are a lot more people beyond help out there than ya think...

It is going to take real commitment and grass roots work no matter who wins ...strange thing is they dont want another republican either ..so maybe they will just hold there nose and vote for a blackman or woman after all.

[Ron Green]

7. I think that as the general campaign progresses, even the clueless old farts will start to realize

that it's just really not OK to vote against the guy because he's black. Hard-core skinheads and KKK are most likely not voting Dem anyway.

[marylanddem]

6. I, too, am appalled at these white Dems.

I do think many of them are racists, and I'm white. I cannot find anything in Hillary's message or demeanor comparable to Obama's grace & class & intelligence. So I have to concur with racism as the factor here. And it makes me sick.

[GDAEx2]

8. I think they are people just too intellectually lazy

to do more than watch a few minutes of news on the TV each day.
When a defamatory email finds its way into their in box, they accept it as true and forward it.

:banghead:

[Riktor]

9. Are you suggesting...

... it is impossible to oppose Obama's candidacy on a purely ideological level?

[anonymous171]

10. But it's impossible for any dem to support McCain on an ideological level.

[Riktor]

22. I don't follow

We are not talking about John McCain.

[Drunken Irishman]

28. Yes we are.

The belief is that the white Democrats won't support Obama in the general. That is the whole argument and it does revolve around John McCain, who they'd rather support over a black candidate. Why? Is John McCain closer to their ideological concerns? If that's the case, are we admitting then Hillary Clinton is closer politically to John McCain than she is to Barack Obama?

If people are using the argument Obama can't win white Democratic voters in the general, they are essentially propping up the idea that much of the Democratic base is racist because they'd rather support a conservative Bush clone over a black guy.

[Riktor]

32. And therein lies the fallacy

What if, generally speaking, white Democrats are more conservative than Obama? Race may or may not have anything to do with it, and an argument such as "White Democrats are racists because they'd rather vote for McCain rather than Obama" would be impossible to prove without knowing for certain the feelings and motivations of every white Democrat in the country. Such is an exercise in futility.

At any rate, this entire premise becomes dubious when past voting trends are taken into account. Those who have chosen a party are, generally speaking, loyal to the party when it comes time to vote. Opinion polls this early are generally unreliable, as the only coverage people have thus seen has been of two Democrats attacking each other. The Democrats and Republicans have yet to face off in the public arena, which is a huge factor this entire argument neglects. How quickly we forget that less than a year ago, Obama was having trouble drumming up support amongst black Democrats.

[Drunken Irishman]

33. This is what's funny.

If you're suggesting they're more conservative than Obama, are you then conceding Clinton is more conservative as well? That seems like a weak argument, since we've heard over and over from many Clinton supporters that Obama is Republican-lite. And even more people seem to believe both candidates are fairly identical on nearly every issue.

I'm of the belief white Democrats will vote for Obama if he's the nominee. They're not going to throw their support behind McCain, especially when he is basically Bush II. And if they do, then it's more because Obama is black and less because Obama appears more "liberal".

[Ron Green]

11. Not impossible, but wrong-headed,

in my opinion. It's clear to me this country and the world need a totally new politics, and Obama's got the best chance to bring it.

[Riktor]

21. The operative word being...

... "opinion".

The reality of the matter is no one can say for certain what Obama's candidacy will bring. Until he takes office, every prediction, hope, and promise is purely speculative. As it impossible to know for certain what Obama's motivations are, your argument just doesn't hold up. He could be the harbinger of a new era of American politics, or he could be just another amoral, power-hungry politician spewing empty promises to win over the malcontent.

It is a mistake to speak in terms of absolutes, especially in regard to events that haven't happened yet. With that in mind, you can't rightly criticize somebody for being skeptical of Obama's potential, at least not at this point.

[bhikkhu]

12. Agreed, but not so worried.

The primaries are not the GE - the decision process is different. You might say that some people are more comfortable with Hillary than Obama, but it is a huge stretch to say that they will be more comfortable with the repug McCain than Obama in the GE.

That is, we can expect that if we field an excellent Democratic candidate, Democrats will vote for him regardless of how they parsed their various choices in the primaries.

(on edit - I'm a white male democrat, btw, as are the majority of people I know)

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

13. Where Hillary and Pat Buchanon fail is they are still living in the 90's

they are still playing their dirty little game based on the racist tactics
used then.

After 7 years of being divided by the moron in chief, most of us
"get it" that the game is to keep us fighting against each other while
Rome burns.

[gaspee]

14. So if...

A white person doesn't like your candidate, he/she must be a racist?

There is no other explanation you can see?

Seems to be an ongoing theme with Obama supporters. Yell out racism loud enough and people might believe you.

I have many reasons for not casting a vote for Obama (and never will) and none of them have to do with his race.

But thanks for your concern.

[Ron Green]

15. It's statistical, not anecdotal.

I can't possibly divine what a given white person's motives are for not supporting a candidate who's calm, visionary and resilient over one who's mean and warlike. My OP is responding to a post that disparages Obama's "performance" among the bloc of white working-class people, and my view is that they, not he, are coming up short.

[TahitiNut]

19. I have to believe that it's one of the purposes of a disinformation campaign ...

... to offer 'straws' (no matter HOW false and ridiculous) for bigots/sexists to use as their rationale for opposing the candidate that most triggers their vile antipathy. I can find almost no other way to analytically observe the kinds of numbskulled rhetoric scattered over the internet and in the media, in this campaign in particular.

[Leopolds Ghost]

16. 15th rec

As someone living in a black majority city with relatives in the South.

[ccharles000]

17. Just because I am a Hillary supporter does not mean I am racist.

[SeattleGirl]

26. Of course it doesn't, any more than my being an Obama supporter

means I'm sexist.

I think the OP was talking about a particular group of people who swallow RW crap, don't question anything, and just buy whatever BS gets thrown at them.

[2rth2pwr]

18. Another "If you don't vote for Obama, you are a stupid racist!" post.

[Ron Green]

20. Nah - it's more subtle than that. Listen carefully to the TV, and to your neighbors.

You'll soon get what I'm talking about.

[Aloha Spirit]

25. Here's an article from the New York Times that's pretty interesting

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/04/us/politics/04penn.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print

[Doctor_J]

29. That is pretty interesting. The man who won't vote for Clinton say

it's not because she's a woman, but because she'll likely make decisions based on emotion. The woman won't for Obama not because he's black, but "he should move away from Martin Luther King". Hate radio listeners are too stupid even to know how stupid they are.

[Aloha Spirit]

31. Yep... all I can say is, I hope "early childhood education" initiatives decrease this type of stuff.

[demo dutch]

23. Doesn't matter what you think, those are the poling results of white voters because subterranean

racism is still alive and well in this country. (Not that I agree with it!) You'd be kidding yourself if you pretended it wasn't so.

[Aloha Spirit]

24. Pretty sure the OP knows that, for me the point is, we're not going to abandon O because some

"Democrats" are racists.

[demo dutch]

27. I don;t care who gets the nomination, in my view both are capable. Just want Dems to win!

[Aloha Spirit]

30. High five!

:grouphug: