One other issue to consider is re-electability. Obama's base of the youth vote MATTERS!

[cascadiance]

Another thing to consider when selecting our nominee. If we want this presidency to last another term so that we can really make significant changes that are needed, it would be good to have the right person in for two terms if possible.

Now who's more apt to get re-elected just looking at hard statistics and not even emotional ones of whether one will "look better" to the American people by the way they do business, etc.

Consider that Obama is strongest with the young people, and has energized a whole new segment of voters to enter the party.

This is not only important for this election (and for the other offices being voted on in this election too), but just as important and perhaps MORE important for 2012!

Think about how many of Hillary's base will shrink (due to older people dying, etc.), and how much Obama's base will grow (given that more young people will come of voting age between now and then). Obama's inherent voting base will just grow, and Hillary's base will shrink (unless she can impress upon a newer generation in ways that she hasn't in this election).

Overriding the youth vote, and Obama's legitimate claims to getting the nomination, even if she does manage somehow to win the presidency, will leave a sour taste in many of the young voters this time around and for the forseeable future, which will not allow our party to grow much. In short, there's probably no way that Hillary is a two term president, whereas I think Obama has the numbers to be a two term president if he does the right things in office, etc.

Also, putting Hillary on the ticket as a VP for this reason is also a bad idea. Do we really want someone that there's no way we'll want to follow Obama in office after he's done his second term on the ticket (the way that Cheney is a no-go for the Rethugs this time around)? I think we'd want someone that's younger and more in favor with the coming generations to be VP.

[patrice]

1. Of course they matter, it's more their future than it is ours. nt

[cascadiance]

3. And if she's playing games about some segments of the "popular vote" not being counted...

He can counter back that there are many thinking Americans that care about their future with global warming, etc. most likely to affect them and their kids later that have no say now in this election, and that if we were able to count *their* votes, that they would likely come out strongly for him!

Ultimately, the goal would be to get back to the rules that are in place now pretty much have Obama winning (provided that the Super delegates aren't stupid to try and override the pledged delegate vote).

[ErinBerin84]

2. It's funny how

Bill Clinton was recently belittling the "youth vote". After watching The War Room on Tuesday...god, it's so hilarious. After Bill wins, George Stephanopoulos is creating the press release and is adamant about "Make sure you mention the youth vote! Make sure you mention the youth vote!"

[goldcanyonaz]

4. Are they actually coming out to vote? Will they show up in November?

I havent seen any data as of late showing them coming out strong in these past few primarys.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

6. They were only 12% of the PA vote. (ages 18-29)

Historically, that is a demographic that doesn't come out and vote with the same consistency as ages 30 on up. I don't know why that is.

[EFerrari]

8. After digging and then debunking what we were told about the youth

vote in 2004, I'm really curious about that demographic.

It started when I read an OpEd that said, the kids didn't show up for Kerry. And since that didn't match in any way what I saw with my own eyes, I poked around. And, it turned out not to be true. Then, after more rummaging, I learned that students in swing states had been targeted for all kinds of dirty tricks.

They're important enough for the GOP to devote resources to denying their vote!

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

11. edit, dupe, bug popped up.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

12. Wow, that's an untold story there. That demographic needs redoubled GOTV efforts,

to counteract the GOP dirty tricks.

I, too, remember the enthusiastic support that Kerry had in 2004 from that age group. This year it is even more important that their votes count.

Thanks for the back story sfexpat.

[EFerrari]

15. Looking back, the election was on Tuesday and that column

came out the next Saturday. Remember that weekend? The talking heads said the kids didn't show up, that Bush got a bigger share of Latinos, and that "values voters" went GOP.

None of that turned out to be true, in fact. But everyone seemed very quick and willing to dismiss the youth vote where the polling guys at Harvard are saying GenY is MORE likely to be involved in the community -- something like 60% of them. I was mad because I watched how hard they worked, first for Dean and then, for Kerry. And their reward was to be told *they* failed.

And on top of all of that, they were threatened and mistreated and frankly, robbed at the polls. Somewhere there is tape of some students that showed up to Mr. Conyers' hearings and they were so upset because their precinct was under equipped, their lines were hours long, they were made to wait in alternate, longer lines -- the list of abuses was long and maddening.

We shouldn't discount the youth vote. The Republicans are clearly not. :mad:

[cascadiance]

17. Yup, we can't afford to lose the youth vote now...

Though the party has managed to "push out" the populist entries that normally the youth would get behind in past elections, that disaffected those generations early on, we still have the opportunity with one of the two remaining candidates (and the one in the lead more importantly with the delegate counts), to really engage the youth this time. I think in a way we are in uncharted territory, and this could be big! This I'm guessing is another reason why the Republicans are more concerned about an Obama candidacy. If he gets into the White House, it could keep them out not only for the next two terms, but perhaps ones following that if an Obama administration does well and has a good VP in place that would be a strong candidate in the election following those two terms. Such a successful run I think will NEED the support of America's youth.

[Oleladylib]

5. That's presupposing far to much to presume! NO WAY JOSE'!

Young does not equate to wise, smart or diplomatic..as neither does old...Age is as much of a disqualifying reason as is race or gender!

[cascadiance]

9. Young BECOMES old, wise, smart, diplomatic... Old becomes DEAD and NOT a voter!

I'm old myself, and I do value age and maturity to think through votes too. But if you are just looking at numbers in terms of support, the youth of this election will be four years older in the coming election and will be in the work force instead of college where they are now this time around, or be in college and voting age instead of being in high school.

And as the economy takes a downturn, which it will likely do no matter who is president, and global warming is staring even more at us in the face, I think the coming generations at some point might feel the need to shift away from the self-centeredness of many of recent times and more back to what it was during the 60's. Now that's my value judgement, but still the cold numbers of who will be of voting age, and who will still be living favors Obama in terms of a growing versus shrinking potential voting base.

[elocs]

7. Yes, Obama has energized and motivated the youth vote

and we have the opportunity to keep them as Democrats. If Clinton were to somehow get the nomination I think these same young people will feel as though they had been robbed, that it's just the system at work again. I think they will be demoralized and simply withdraw from the process.

[QC]

10. The youth vote makes all the difference!

Just ask Pres. Eugene McCarthy, Pres. Gary Hart, Pres. Jerry Brown, and Pres. Howard Dean.

In all seriousness, it would be great to see young people turning out to vote, and it's something I stay after my students about every time there's an election. I explain to them over and over, to the point of making their eyes roll, that the reason Uncle Sam has no problem cutting their financial aid and cooking up wars to get them killed is that there's no political price for it, since people their age do not vote.

It's great that Obama has got young people interested in the campaign. Whether they actually go stand in line and vote is another matter, and unfortunately, the exit polling suggests that they are not voting in large numbers.

[cascadiance]

13. And in just about all of these examples, these more "populist" candidates were muscled out...

... by the party bosses, and what happened with the "party's choice" in those instances. Except for Carter in 76, they all pretty much lost (Humphrey, Mondale, Kerry). When the party tunes out who the young support, then they wind up tuning out youth vote participation in the general election then. We have the opportunity this time to really get them excited and get on board with a candidate that's actually in a position to have arguably already won the nomination. We shouldn't lose that!

[QC]

14. Very true--it happened again this year.

The populists were gone by February, leaving us with two timid corporate centrists to choose from, and since they share 95% of their senate votes, the election has come down to personality, race, and sex, guaranteeing the ugliness that we have seen so far and a divided party in the fall.

[caledesi]

16. It is time to "pass the torch." I am 60 and I got over it. NT