Hillary Is A Good Dem And Would Make A Great President.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

If you don't think so, it's likely that either you've let the competitive drama eat your brain to the degree that you've lost all sense of reasoning, or you're just quite simply stupid. Seriously.

To fight against her during this primary is expected. To harbor some anger towards ways she's gone about some things is reasonable. To not want her to win the nomination and to trash talk in the spirit of competition is normal. To truly believe she's no better than McCain or that she wouldn't make a great Dem president, is just irrational and dumb. Get a grip.

[flowomo]

1. second that....

n/t

[NJmaverick]

2. On the other hand if you believe people should be accountable for their actions and words

then it's quite expected that many Democrats would be angered at Hillary and have lost respect for the Clintons. I don't believe in the repuke value system that only the "other people" should have to be responsible for their actions. I think everyone, even Democrats, should be held to the same standards.

[JimGinPA]

8. Excellent Point!

I feel exactly the same way.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

19. “Her name was the only one on the ticket in Michigan and still 42, 43 percent of the vote was again

“Her name was the only one on the ticket in Michigan and still 42, 43 percent of the vote was against her,” - Rep James Clyburn.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

23. Top House Democrat denounces Clinton campaign tactics

Congressman James Clyburn has asked the Clinton campaign for months to "chill out" in their attacks
against Obama. He is concerned that if the Clintons win, many in the democratic party will feel that they stole the election through their dirty tactics, and also that the Clintons have deliberately
ruined a very valuable democrat.

http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/2008/04/24/top-house-democrat-denounces-clinton-campaign-tactics/

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

26. Repeated lies about "Tuzla" sniper fire

this is pathetic - she is still living in pre You Tube days.

[elocs]

79. "Repeated" is the operative word here.

Her tongue did not slip just once, but 3 or 4 times in different places. All the while she had this big smile on her face as if glorying in her bravery.

[SwampG8r]

109. no

that was the self satisfied smirk of a pathological liar who thought she was getting away with her story

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

28. Her failure over an 8 year period to advance Universal Health Care

in fact she set the movement way back.

[Shoelace]

51. with Dubya and Republican congress, nobody could have done that

Jesus Christ himself couldn't have come down from wherever to make UHC happen in the past 8 years. Not since Newt Gingrich's "contract on America" in 1994 has any Democratic senator or congressman had the power or enough votes to override vetoes, get legislation passed on many issues, and especially Universal Health care.

Remember, she's been fighting against gigantic corporations, Big Pharm, HMOS, etc.



HILLARY CLINTON IS A HARD CORE LIBERAL

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Hillary_Clinton.htm

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

56. With HIllary and Bill in the Whitehouse for 8 years she failed on Universal Health Care

and thanks to Bill we lost the democratic majority.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

57. people voted for Bush because they thought he would restore "decency" to White House

ironic isn't it.

[Shoelace]

69. oh that's right, Bill got a blow job!

how could I forget? Far more than ironic m'dear.




HILLARY IS A HARD CORE LIBERAL

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Hillary_Clinton.htm

[cali]

100. do you actually thiink those silly little charts mean anything?

If Hillary is a hard core liberal, why did she vote `for the IWR and against banning the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas? If she's a hard core liberal, what's my senator, Pat Leahy? He's far to the left of her.

[Zhade]

131. So liberals are compulsive liars?

THIS liberal isn't.

[nichomachus]

65. You have to marvel at her tactic

she's been fighting against gigantic corporations, Big Pharm, HMOS, etc.


Apparently, she's fighting them by taking lots of money from them. Devious plot. Bankrupt them by accepting campaign contributions from them.

[Windy]

76. Really? She stated in a debate the lobbyists work for the people.... a bit of a conflict. n/t

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

111. I think she said "lobbyists are people too". n/t

[Zhade]

130. I'm not going to burn her for that - she's destroyed her own credibility with her constant lies.

NT!

[JoFerret]

142. Unfair and

untrue.

Furthermore - what has Obama ever even TRIED to do.
And what confidence can we have of him ever doing anything in the future?
He starts with a weak hand.
How does that help?

[ScarletSniper]

16. Beautiful!

[JoFerret]

18. Stone them to death

and eat them.

[krkaufman]

102. Hyperbolic much? ; )

If Bush/Cheney should be impeached and/or imprisoned, Democratic leaders who failed to do basic due diligence before the Iraq vote should at least be held accountable in the voting booth -- assuming better choices are available.

[krkaufman]

101. Accountability. Exactly... if we're preaching that BushCo et al are to be held accountable ...

... for the Iraq war and their other crimes, then we need to hold our own accountable for their complicity in the crimes.

[jasmine621]

126. If only you would apply those same standards to Obama.

And what words and actions do you want her to be accountable for that she is not being held accountable for. The Bosnia episode was one statement I think was way out of line and a lie. But name some others. Speaking about Obama's credentials, experience etc. is all fair game. It appears that most Hillary haters just don't want her to say anything about Obama except that his is the Messiah...and believe me, she ain't gonna do it!

[Zhade]

132. It was NOT one statement. Check the record, she repeated it several times AFTER IT WAS DEBUNKED.

NAFTA - she lied on her prior support of that, and official government records of her meetings PROVE that.

How about the hospital that DIDN'T turn away the mother who HAD insurance despite clinton's lies about her?

Prove ONE lie anywhere close to those that Obama has uttered (hint: you can't, because unlike clinton's demonstrated lies, the evidence isn't there).

[Zhade]

129. Why must you sully the bread and circus action with ethics and the need for honesty?

Such silly things don't concern clintrolls!

[Annces]

3. Yep

Some people go so far to an extreme, they meet the other side in the negative rhetoric.

[SKKY]

4. Whether or not she'd make a Great President remains to be seen...

...but I will agree that she'd be a better option than McCain. Although OMC, I've gotta tell you, that Iran business she said recently makes me think she's as hawkish as Bush. Maybe more. :shrug:

[bigwillq]

121. Same for Obama

the fact is, none of us know just how good, or bad, either Clinton or Obama will be if they are elected president.

But the fact remains...both Clinton and Obama are a hell of a lot better choice than McCain.

[NJmaverick]

5. What has Hillary done, that makes her a "Good Dem"??????

[JoFerret]

20. Oh! you know

...taxed and spent. The usual.
(What an absurd question. Support Obama - don't tear Clinton down)

[NJmaverick]

27. Isn't it pretty daming if asking that sort of question

is considered "tearing down Clinton"?

[LakeSamish706]

41. Watch out cause you will be called a Republican next with some of this group. n/t

[JoFerret]

114. Which group is that then?

Democrats?

[JoFerret]

113. Not really

What she has done and how she is a "good dem" is so obvious for all to see that it makes one wonder what sort of person asks such a question.

[krkaufman]

104. "don't tear Clinton down" -- this is an absurd request, given the Clinton campaign approach

The only merit to the statement, and what should be pointed-out, is that Clinton's favorability ratings have been damaged more than Obama's by her "kitchen sink" negative attack strategy.

[SammyWinstonJack]

30. Same could be asked of Obama.

:shrug:

[NJmaverick]

33. Yes, but that doesn't answer my question. Pretty sad that no one could offer up an answer

[krkaufman]

105. Sure. Except the OP is a declaration that "Hillary is a Good Dem" ...

... so discussion of Hillary's relative Dem-ness is directly related to the OP.

[ScarletSniper]

6. We are all entitled to our opinions and we all entitled to vote and support whomwever we so desire..

Ain't America Grand!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

9. There's No Rule Saying You Can't Be A Moron. You're Entitled To Say Whatever Stupid Shit You Want.

:hi:

[joeybee12]

10. That's spelled "moran,"

You moran! :hi:

[JimGinPA]

11. As The Hillary Supporters Here Prove Frequently

[ScarletSniper]

15. Yeah ain't that the truth..How can you say, you won't vote for Hilda..How dare you..lmao..frick her

Btw, you need to address Nomad's post..or are you to chicken shit...lmao..easier to come after me, huh..

F.A.I.L.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

62. The Post You Reference Was Irrelevant Towards The Topic And A Bit Dumb.

The points in it were already addressed in the OP and it was already stated that it is reasonable to hold some anger. But none of those things mean she wouldn't make a great president. So the F.A.I.L. comes from that poster and you, who are convinced that there was something said of relevance to the point, when in fact it was just a closed minded and limited response that missed the point of the OP completely. :hi:

[ScarletSniper]

66. Yep, all that and you still F.A.I.L. ...lmao dang..you address my post and still ignore

Nomads'..man you must really be a chicken shit, you must have gotten pwned already..and are fearful..

it's understandable..but go ahead address the question where it was originally posted..don't address me on it..be brave!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

70. LMAO Just How Thick Is Your Bubble Anyway? LOL

Holy cow, could you be any more oblivious?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[ScarletSniper]

74. OPERATION RUNAWAY..that's your new name..lmao..perfect fit

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

78. Call Me Whatever You Want. I Love The Names The Braindead Children Call Me Here.

I just look at you and laugh at your blatant stupidity and childishness. :hi:

[ScarletSniper]

84. Ha Ha..so says the person that addressed my initial post by calling me names! lol rich!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

85. You Sound Like You're 12. Are You?

14 maybe?

I can smell your prepubescence from all the way over here.

[ScarletSniper]

87. Again, you're caught..and you divert. Nice job Operation Runaway..

[Zhade]

135. He's always been this pathetic, just so you know.

NT!

[Maddy McCall]

116. You joined less than a week ago. How is it that you have such a galvanized opinion....

of OMC?

[ScarletSniper]

127. Hey, it's Maddy McCall...I feel so special..Hey Maddy...darlin'

[NJmaverick]

13. This thread would be a good example of taking advantage of that

entitlement. :hi:

[ScarletSniper]

14. And no matter what you post and how rude you get, I still won't vote for Hilda..so flame away..lol

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

24. Oh Don't Worry. I See Quite Readily Your Stubborn Resolve To Hold On To Your Stupidity.

I was under no impression that you'd let go of it. You seem to own it.

[NJmaverick]

29. Like your candidate, you are long on insults, but short on substance

I am still waiting for you to explain what makes Hillary a "Good Dem"

[ScarletSniper]

45. I see still no response from Operation Runaway! lmao

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

72. She Has A Huge Career In Being A Good Dem. If You're Too Ignorant To See It,

then what could I tell ya.

There are pages and pages of things she's done that makes her a good dem. I'd wager you've seen the reasons because many have been posted here and in GD in the past, repeatedly. But you would rather hang on to your ignorant and closed minded view of how horrible she is, rather than to actually have to acknowledge that she's been quite a good dem for decades. Do you think that I would be under any impression that if I posted those things, you would all of a sudden turn away from your blatant stupidity and declare "oh, yeah, those are some really good things. I guess she really is a good dem."? Of course you wouldn't. You're too solidified in your ignorant view to have the integrity to do such a thing. :hi:

[NJmaverick]

81. So that is your entire argument is- you are a super genius and if people don't see that

they are ignorant or stupid. Well I will pass on that rather pathetic argument. Although in fairness, it's on par with pretty much every other argument on why Hillary should stay in the race or be the nominee (at this point).

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

86. If You Think That's My Entire Argument Then You're A Bit More Stupid Than I Thought.

Must suck to be you.

[NJmaverick]

91. LOL! You went to Karl Roves school of politics, didn't you spanky?

You figured if you called everyone "stupid" and "ignorant" that no one would notice just how limited and simple minded you were. Well guess what? Rove was wrong! :hi:

PS- Sorry to have to be the one that had to tell you the truth

[ScarletSniper]

44. Is that all you have..lmao..such a bitter, bitter person! Not my fault your candidate can't win..ha

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

73. Pssssstttttt.. Hey..... Genius..... Obama's My Candidate.

But don't let reality stop your knee jerk stupidity! :hi:

[NJmaverick]

88. Oh really????

You did post this?

OPERATIONMINDCRIME (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-06-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Thank You For You Objectivity. And I Would Be Super Psyched About A Clinton/Obama Ticket!

[ScarletSniper]

90. Guess, I'll have to change it from Operation Runaway to Operation fullof shite..lol

[NJmaverick]

96. LOL! That would be a far more accurate description

[Zhade]

140. Operation Pants On Fire works, too.

: )

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

95. And What's The Problem With That? It Would Be A Great Ticket.

Furthermore, did you not see that was almost 2 months ago? Do you think that things don't change? Ohhhhhh, I see, you thought you were smart and stuff by taking one snippet as if to present some gotcha or something, though it actually doesn't mean shit. Nope, not smart nomad. Pretty stupid actually.

Furthermore, though I think Obama would be the better candidate for November, that doesn't mean I don't still think Hill would do great and make a great president, and I still think a Clinton/Obama, Obama/Clinton ticket would be awesome.

That was a really amateurish gotcha. How embarrassing for you.

[ScarletSniper]

89. Sure....

[Solomon]

119. LOL You guys are killing me.

:rofl:


What I would like explained to me is how is it that lying and having no credibility has nothing to do with being a good president. Why anybody whould be willing to accept a president who demonstrates on a daily basis that they are willing to subvert the rules?

Where do you think this kind of crap is going to get us trying to repair our relationship with the world?

[LakeSamish706]

42. You dick wads sure do allot of name calling... n/t

[krkaufman]

106. chuckle. n/t

(laughing at the obvious sarcasm)

[Zhade]

134. As you demonstrated by posting this thread about a proven compulsive liar.

NT!

[KingFlorez]

7. K&R

Very good post.

[ruby slippers]

12. But, isn't she higher on the Illuminati list than Dubya? If so,

that doesn't make her a good choice then does it?.....no matter how much beer she can drink with the men at the Bohemian Grove.

[cali]

17. Sorry, I don't know that either Hillary or Barack would make a great president

and neither do you as it's unknowable. Too many factors involved. It's stupid to say such a thing about any prospective candidate. All we can do is speculate.

I agree that anyone thinking she wouldn't be better than McCain is being idiotic, but who knows if she- or Obama- would be a great president? Not a single soul.

[Usrename]

22. More doublethink.

It's an epidemic here.

How can you say it's idiotic not to think she would be better than McCain when you just said it's unknowable?

[cali]

40. not at all. here's some basic- very basic- logic to help you out.

We cannot know that Hillary or Barack will be a Great President. First of all, those are few and far between. We can know that both Hillary and Barack have policy proposals that are superior than McCain's. We know, for example, his plans for Iraq. We know that they are markedly different than either Hillary's or Barack's. We know that McCain supports unfettered free trade and tax cuts for the wealthy. We know that both dems speak out against unfettered free trade and tax cuts for the wealthy. We know that the two dems have voted very differently from McCain on issue after issue. We know that both strongly support abortion rights and McCain strongly opposes abortion rights. True, everything I'm speaking of is from a dem pov, but I strongly believe that current repub policies are very, very damaging to the country. Do you accept that premise? If so, logic dictates that either dem would be better than McCain. If not? What are you doing posting here?

:hi:

[Usrename]

92. Or, you could be dreaming here. Lost in all the propaganda.

Hillary or Obama could easily be just as bad as McCain. Your argument is not all that persuasive.

Clinton has become just as dangerous as McCain, theatening to nuke the Middle-East into anhilation.

Her husband was the one who refused to prosecute the Iran/Contra criminals, the same ones who are back now, plaguing us all in this adminstration. Why is that fact reassuring to you? How can you make an honest argument that she isn't any more responsible for our current situation than McCain is?

What's the big difference between them? He'll say anything to get elected, and it appears that she will too. But basically what do you think is the big difference between them? She might end up being a lot more dangerous than McCain would be since he has nothing to prove to anyone and she must show the world that she has the biggest dick when it comes to national security. She is more scaryto a lot of people than he is.

Another argument could be made about all the cronyism and bribery in Washington. McCain has opposed it in the past, while Hillary publicly embraces it. She thinks that K Sreet is the thing that makes Washington work so well, and that things can only get even better when a different administration is on the receiving end of all that lobbyist and special interest influence.

What has she done, exactly, tha gives you all this confidence in her? Hasn't she been a miserable failure on her flagship issue of healthcare? And now she says she will garnish wages if she has to, in order to line us all up for the insurance companies to pick over. I am not sure she would be any better than McCain would be. He opposed the the tax cuts for the weathy too, as a matter of fact, but he will say anything now in order to get votes, just like her.

I don't think Roe v. Wade is going to mean a whole lot once the police state arrives in earnest. Less is probably known about Obama than either of those two, which makes him by far the least scary candidate. And there isn't any way to tell for sure if he would be any better or worse than the other two, but at least (it could be argued) there is hope.

[cali]

97. never mind. I don't see the point in discussing things with seriously

delusional people. And you are seriously delusional.

[Usrename]

110. You think that I'm delusional.

What exactly am I delusional about?

[still_one]

25. Absolutely correct. However, how someone behaves in the campaign

does give you insight about that person

[still_one]

21. She is not as bad as mccain, but she lies. Her campaign has inferred at various times

that perhaps Obama was a Muslum, and was educated in a "madrassa" was a lie that she knew

Her elevation of mccain when she said, she and mccain were qualified to be president, but Obama wasn't, not only was a lie, but dispiciple

Her not so subtle references that because Obama attended Wright's church, perhaps Obama wasn't patriotic, or had an element of anti-Jewish sentiment was a lie.

The above is not about debating your opponent on the issues, or by arguing difference of policy, but through personal destruction, based on LIES

The most telling aspect of the Clinton campaign was when she thought it was necessary to lie about being under sniper fire, and that lie wasn't done just once, but perpetuated several times

[Straight Shooter]

31. I was just wondering yesterday where you've been, OMC.

Hadn't noticed you posting on GDP lately. If this is your return-to-GDP post, it's a good one.

:hi:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

82. I've Stayed Away. There Wasn't Much Here Of Value Anymore.

I've also been really busy trying to get things taken care of at home. I've been trying to focus on things in real life that I had been putting off. I did have a moment this morning though when I decided to browse through GDP a bit though, and I just felt the need to post this just because. It's still funny to me how deep the demonizing goes. Both of our candidates are good dems who would make great presidents. It just cracks me up when I sit here and read all the melodrama acting like it would be some devastating thing for our country if she was elected. It's so irrational and silly!

Hey, I don't agree with all the ways she's run her campaign or some of the decisions she's made either. But I'm not narrow minded, ignorant or irrational enough to think that erases the years and years of things she's done and fought for that make her a good dem. It would be really stupid to do that imho.

[Straight Shooter]

125. Well, it's good to hear you voice your opinion again.

:hi:

[Usrename]

32. I don't think you are listening to the arguments correctly.

Had she won this thing, or even kept it within reach, then your OP would make some sense.

The problem people have with her is that she lost (Obama's lead is insurmountable) and yet she fights on, bloodying our candidate.

Get it? She is working against us. There is still a lot more damage that she can do, and a lot more money she can waste.

[Spider Jerusalem]

34. Personally I think she'd make a very BAD president.

The way she's run her campaign has revealed some very telling things regarding her leadership style and ability. She selects advisors and staff on the basis of loyalty rather than proven competence (see: Patti Solis-Doyle as an example) her advisors and staff are afraid to give her bad news (no-one wanted to tell her she was broke after Super Tuesday); she or her coterie of advisors emphasise short-term tactics over long-term strategy, and has shown an incapacity for contingency planning ('inevitability'; 'it'll be over by Super Tuesday', and no Plan B in place); and last but not least she has a demonstrated willingness to resort to pandering and outright lies. Her personal and political qualities are not those that make a great president. She's Nixon in a pantsuit.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

35. K & R. OMC, cogent as usual.

:toast: :kick:

[Bolo Boffin]

36. I absolutely agree. n/t

[backscatter712]

37. If she was a good dem, she would have bowed out already.

But no, she places her own career and political power at higher esteem than the welfare of the Democratic Party, the American people and the world. She pulled her campaign straght out of Karl Rove's playbook and uses nothing but lies, smears and dirty tricks.

[mmonk]

38. She's no McCain. But the manner her campaign has conducted

itself can rightfully be criticized (especially using or affirming rightwing talking points against fellow democrat Barack Obama).

[mikekohr]

39. Barack AND Hillary are Good Dems and Either Will Make A Great President

Senator Obama has ran the superior campaign and put together the better organization, which gives us insight to his ability to lead our nation. His message and organizational strengths are why he is ahead in this race and why he will win the nomination and whip Senator McSurge's ass in November, taking back the White House and helping to lift our entire ticket.

mike kohr

-Victory in November-

[OzarkDem]

43. Agree, Dem's shouldn't be influenced

by a few DC Dem leaders who were jealous of Clinton and his accomplishments as president and who want to re-write the success of his policies.

Democrats have an excellent history of success in the WH that we should be building on instead of letting a few whiny Dem leaders tear it down.

[nichomachus]

68. What accomplishments are you referring to

Don't ask - don't tell

Health care

NAFTA

Attacking welfare

DOMA

The murderous "sanctions" against Iraq

Or being mind-numbingly stupid and selfish enough to diddle an intern in the White House when he knew the investigation-happy right-wingers were watching his every move?

[smoogatz]

46. Hillary is a good moderate Republican and would make an average

president, most likely, if you consider FDR the modern progressive gold standard, which I do. She's marginally better than McCain, but I'd be hard-pressed to think of a prominent Dem who wouldn't be, other than Lieberman. The fact that so many prominent wingnuts appear to be so invested in Hillary as nominee indicates that they see her as the weaker opponent in the general AND the least likely to upset the Iraq war/tax cuts gravy train if she wins. If somehow Hillary manages to bully, bribe and cajole her way into the nom, I'll vote for her--but I won't be happy about it. And I think the party will lose a historic chance to capture the 18-30 generation, who've been turning out in unprecedented numbers to support Obama.

On edit: It goes without saying that anyone who disagrees with me is mentally defective and probably addicted to freaky German porn or something.

[IrishBloodEngHeart]

47. she's been in the corridors of power too long

She has my support over McCain, but I think her foreign policy will be too aggressive and she will be a lot more conservative on social issues then people think. She still won't say the word gay in public unless its too a gay group.

[Barack_America]

48. Absolutely. I've always wanted to go to war with Iran.

What fun that would be!

:eyes:

[Dogmudgeon]

49. Crazy from the heat. That's it.

No, not quite. We are severely deficient in control and perspective. Too long in the desert worshipping a series of golden calves. Hillary and Barack are nowhere near the level of Moses and Aaron. But they don't have to be.

On the other hand, it is WE who are the crazed freaks, the Hebrews and Pharaoh's legions all in one suicidal package.

Thinking adults (and most of the children I've known) simply do not pour out their hatred the way that we've seen. More of it may appear to be coming from Obama's supporters, but that's primarily from the dominance they hold here. The whole Democratic world is poisoned, and we're crafting our own version of the batshit-crazy Radical Right. This has been going on since at least the 1960s, but it has boiled over this time.

And just like with the batshit-crazy Radical Right, Hillary Clinton is the scapegoat. That's actually a big point in her favor -- people like her, overheated political junkies hate her, the press has it in for her, and she can duke it out with all of her enemies and keep a smile on her face. Obama, of course, has his good points, too, but the Hillary comparison to Rocky Balboa really is pretty accurate.

I had been looking forward to this process. These are two of the strongest contenders we have had in decades -- maybe ever. We should be able to show America that Democratic "losers" far outclass the GOP's "winners". But this is turning out like a family encounter group gone wrong, where the kids side with one parent and blame the other one for unspeakable and confabulated acts.

--p!
"We are the Judean People's Front crack suicide squad! Suicide squad, attack!"
<they all stab themselves>
-- Miss Nippy's Book of Practical Electoral Etiquette for Democrats

[Uben]

50. She would make a great president, but.....

....trash talking is not normal, even in the spirit of competition. That is just making excuses for the rude and obnoxious people who spew their hate. I am a staunch Clinton supporter, but you have never, and will never, hear me trash Obama, even in the spirit of competition. If you can't control your emotions or think talking trash on the internet is cute, it isn't. It shows the flaw in your character.

I have been a clinical psychologist for 25 yrs, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that if you use vile and vitriolic connotations while describing a candidates actions, appearance, or beliefs, you need therapy, and that anger you espouse is manifesting itself for a reason. Please, if you are one of those people, seek help today before this anger becomes an uncontrollable albatross. What may seem like innocent and harmless fun to you has consequences you can't even imagine. If you disagree, you are probably a no good, worthless piece of excrement who is likely an Obama supporter with warts and moles and only a few teeth in your mouth. You likely have a brain disorder called Disfunctional Obamunism, or in lamens terms, the periodic random firing of neutrons to your brain are being interrupted by those thoughts of "Yes, we can!" Well, you can't, and there is no known treatment for this horrid condition. The only successful results have been found in those who acquiesce and vote for the one real candidate, President Hillary Rodham Clinton. There, you said it! You are already on your way to healing.

To make this easier, I will waive all fees, and only ask that you follow through and send a sizable donation to her campaign. Under her healthcare reform bill, it will be deductible, so contribute heavily!

[rodeodance]

52. Thanks for a much needed post

[mudesi]

53. What are YOU doing here?

:rofl:

Actually, OPERATIONMINDCRIME, Hillary is not a Democrat. Not after what we've seen from her over the past 2 months.

If you don't think so, it's likely that either you've let the competitive drama eat your brain to the degree that you've lost all sense of reasoning, or you're just quite simply stupid. Seriously.

[formercia]

54. She and Mugabe would make a great team.

In some Third World dictatorship.

[cliffordu]

55. Hill is a lousy democrat and would make a great NEOCON

[Shoelace]

67. HER VOTING RECORD IS HARD CORE LIBERAL

so if so if we don't like "hard core liberals," then we shouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton, it's as simple as that!



HILLARY IS A HARD CORE LIBERAL


Rated 96% by the NAACP, indicating a pro-affirmative-action stance.
Voted YES on repealing tax subsidy for companies which move US jobs offshore.
Voted YES on restricting rules on personal bankruptcy

Voted YES on $52M for "21st century community learning centers". (Oct 2005)
Voted YES on $5B for grants to local educational agencies. (Oct 2005)
Voted YES on shifting $11B from corporate tax loopholes to education.
Voted YES on funding smaller classes instead of private tutors. (May 2001)
Voted YES on funding student testing instead of private tutors. (May 2001)
Voted YES on spending $448B of tax cut on education & debt reduction.
Rated 82% by the NEA, indicating pro-public education votes.

Voted YES on removing oil & gas exploration subsidies. (Jun 2007)
Voted YES on making oil-producing and exporting cartels illegal. (Jun 2007)
Voted YES on factoring global warming into federal project planning. (May 2007)
Voted YES on disallowing an oil leasing program in Alaska's ANWR. (Nov 2005)
Voted YES on $3.1B for emergency oil assistance for hurricane-hit areas. (Oct 2005)
Voted YES on reducing oil usage by 40% by 2025 (instead of 5%). (Jun 2005)
Voted YES on banning drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
Voted NO on Bush Administration Energy Policy. (Jul 2003)
Voted YES on targeting 100,000 hydrogen-powered vehicles by 2010. (Jun 2003)
Voted YES on removing consideration of drilling ANWR from budget bill.
Voted NO on drilling ANWR on national security grounds.

Rated 89% by the LCV, indicating pro-environment votes.

Voted NO on implementing CAFTA for Central America free-trade. (Jul 2005)
Voted YES on granting the District of Columbia a seat in Congress. (Sep 2007)
Voted NO on requiring photo ID to vote in federal elections. (Jul 2007)
Voted NO on allowing some lobbyist gifts to Congress. (Mar 2006)
Voted NO on establishing the Senate Office of Public Integrity. (Mar 2006)
Voted YES on banning "soft money" contributions and restricting issue ads.
Voted NO on require photo ID (not just signature) for voter registration.

Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)
Voted NO on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence.

Voted YES on requiring negotiated Rx prices for Medicare part D. (Apr 2007)
Voted NO on limiting medical liability lawsuits to $250,000. (May 2006)
Voted YES on expanding enrollment period for Medicare Part D. (Feb 2006)
Voted YES on increasing Medicaid rebate for producing generics. (Nov 2005)
Voted YES on negotiating bulk purchases for Medicare prescription drug.
Voted NO on $40 billion per year for limited Medicare prescription drug benefit.
Voted YES on allowing reimportation of Rx drugs from Canada. (Jul 2002)
Voted YES on allowing patients to sue HMOs & collect punitive damages.
Voted NO on funding GOP version of Medicare prescription drug benefit.

Voted NO on removing need for FISA warrant for wiretapping abroad. (Aug 2007)
Voted YES on limiting soldiers' deployment to 12 months. (Jul 2007)
Voted YES on implementing the 9/11 Commission report. (Mar 2007)
Voted YES on preserving habeus corpus for Guantanamo detainees. (Sep 2006)
Voted YES on requiring CIA reports on detainees & interrogation methods.

Voted NO on declaring English as the official language of the US government.
Voted YES on eliminating the "Y" nonimmigrant guestworker program. (May 2007)
Voted YES on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
Voted YES on establishing a Guest Worker program. (May 2006)
Voted YES on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security.
Voted YES on giving Guest Workers a path to citizenship.

Voted YES on restricting employer interference in union organizing. (Jun 2007)
Voted YES on increasing minimum wage to $7.25. (Feb 2007)
Voted YES on raising the minimum wage to $7.25 rather than $6.25. (Mar 2005)
Voted NO on repealing Clinton's ergonomic rules on repetitive stress.
Protect overtime pay protections. (Jun 2003)
Rated 85% by the AFL-CIO, indicating a pro-union voting record.

Voted NO on confirming Samuel Alito as Supreme Court Justice. (Jan 2006)
Voted NO on confirming John Roberts for Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. (Sep 2005)
Rated 100% by the AU, indicating support of church-state separation.

Rated 100% by the ARA, indicating a pro-senior voting record.

Rated 21% by NTU, indicating a "Big Spender" on tax votes. (Dec 2003)
Rated 80% by the CTJ, indicating support of progressive taxation.

[DevonRex]

77. Guess you think WAR is a hardcore liberal value... Go figure. nt

[Shoelace]

93. 29 Democratic Senators voted for the war including Sen. Edwards

"The evidence at the time was persuasive -- especially if you go back and look and see what Secretary of State Colin Powell did at the United Nations," Reid said Tuesday.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2007/Feb-17-Sat-2007/news/12611183.html

[cali]

103. they did it too is an awful excuse. they were just as craven and

wrong as she was. And the evidence was fucking not persuasive. Read the words of the superior dems in the Senate- hell read the words of Jeffords and Chafee. They both knew you don't give a blank check to any president let alone chimpy.

[Shoelace]

122. "to err is human, to forgive divine"

Alexander Pope

If you can find anything wrong with this belief, go for it Cali.

[Usrename]

124. Is it necessary for her to be president in order to get forgiveness?

The two are not related.

And besides, one has to ask for forgiveness, and Hillary does not even realize she did anything wrong. Pathetic.

The fact that you forgive someone does automatically make them smarter or better qualified for the job they are seeking.

[JoFerret]

138. Obama got a free pass on that

and you know it.

[Zhade]

141. It seems clintrolls think compulsive lying is a liberal value, too.

Must be why they do it so much.

[Armstead]

58. She would be better than McCain....But that's it

A great president? To achieve that ststus she would have to be a different person than the one who bungled a popular issue in the 90's (healthcare reform), whose soap opera marriage diverted the country's attention, who has no core that one can point to (is she a liberal? centrist? conservative?)

[DevonRex]

59. A Good Dem does not campaign the way she has against

Another Dem. Her votes on the IWR and Kyle-Lieberman call her judgment into question. Those votes and her remarks about obliterating Iran make her no better than the Neocons.

So, I'm gonna have to say you're wrong on both points. Not because of competitive drama but because of her RECORD and her tactics. America deserves better.

[futureliveshere]

60. I don't know about "Good Dem". I think she lost her own way in this primary. Some questions below.

We are just showing her the reflection of her own activities and statements.

---promoting McC ahead of her own Dem colleague
---running Rovian ads
---taking the AA base for granted
---threatening another sovereign nation with nuclear obliteration
---refusing to meet/talk with our enemies
---slamming the same activist base which she cozied up to earlier
---throwing personal, ugly attacks on her own colleague when he is refraining from doing so
---claiming the Republican primary process is better than the Democratic one, when she, her husband and her supporters were largely responsible for the fine print today

what do you have to say to that?

[MidwestTransplant]

61. I think she would make a mediocre president. That's why I am supporting Obama

Hillary is far to measured and risk averse now. She is the typical Washington insider now. Moreover, she is too widely disliked to be able to do anything bold. Her efforts will be shot down simply because she is the one leading them.

[Ichingcarpenter]

63. She would make a good President for a

SUV driving Walmart shopper in denial.

[helderheid]

64. meh.

:)

[bigbrother05]

71. is this a PushPoll?

[GoesTo11]

75. Hillary Rodham Roosevelt - Great President

Based on what remarkable gifts?

Her ability to bring people together?

Her deep enough vision that is right and steadfast even though it goes against what is popular?

Her willingness to take on corruption and overhaul the system?

Based on her reservoir of credibility built up over a lifetime?

Based on her experience actually solving and implementing solutions to the country's greatest challenges?

Based on her profile-in-courage level of unfailing defense of democracy?

Her speaking truth to power?

Her ability to synthesize and see the big picture?

Her ability to pick the best advisers and make the wisest use of their advice?

Her ability to delegate and manage people?

Her ability to manage a budget?

Her ability to inspire a nation?

Her steady-as-a-rock demeanor?


None of the above.


She has the following qualities that could be viewed as positives:

1) Mastery of facts and details (certainly a plus, but more of a plus when combined with ability to synthesize - like Bill C)

2) Willingness to fight on forever (only a plus if you're absolutely right. A big minus when you're not.)

3) Willingness to do compromise where expedient (only a plus if compromises are in service of a higher goal)

4) Willingness to reach across the aisle (only a plus if in service of a higher goal)


I don't think she'd be a very good president, especially for very challenging times. Of course, I could be wrong, I think she'd be better than McCain, and I think she would be better if the Democrats retain their majority than otherwise.

[stray cat]

80. As an Obama supporter - I agree. I prefer Obama but prefer Hillary by far to 8 more years of W

[JBoy]

83. You can't be a "great" president if people don't trust you.

[JackORoses]

94. Sorry, we've had our quota of Lying Manipulators

Time to try something new.

[krkaufman]

98. Sorry, but "Good Dem" is farther than I'll go, at this point. She's a Democrat ...

... and that is sufficient to perhaps warrant voting for her over McCain, but classifying her as a "good Democrat" is arguable.

[Moochy]

99. If you dont agree with me you have poopy pants

[AngryOldDem]

107. Then I'm just quite simply stupid.

And I lost count of the ad hominems in your post. Good way to try to convince me to see your side of the argument.


ON EDIT: And what a sad commentary that this post drew 19 recs. Absolutely ridiculous.

[dana_b]

136. lots of "stupid" and "dumb" people here evidently

too bad we're not as smart, well thought out and eloquent as the OP, eh?

[dailykoff]

108. I see the operation was a success.

Congratulations.

[cbayer]

112. .

[retread]

115. Put me down as "simply stupid." n/t

[VotesForWomen]

117. correct; some of the O-ists have completly lost all sense of rationality and proportion. nt

[Bonobo]

118. Only as long as your definition of "good democrat" is unrelated to ethical behavior.

Oh, did you think there was more to it? Nope, that statement covers it.

Have a nice day.

[Moochy]

120. Ethics Schmethics as long as "We" Win! (sarcasm)

...though the OP will plug his upturned, sanctimonious nose and vote for Obama, good on him for that.

[WeDidIt]

123. I agree with most of what you say

I don't believe she would be a great president, though. I believe she would be a good president, probably better than her husband was. This, of course, blows McCain out of the water.

I believe Barack Obama will truly be a great president, possibly one of the greatest.

[Zhade]

128. What's truly stupid is knowing her proven lies (Tuzla, NAFTA) and claiming she's a good Dem.

Unless, of course, being a proven compulsive liar is the new definition of "good Dem" and "great president".

We already HAVE a prez who lies as easily as breathing, we don't need another one (and thankfully, we won't have her, because she won't get the nom).

[tabasco]

133. Good Democrats don't kiss republican ass and take money from murdering dictators.

Hillary condemns good Democrats and wants to make them all republicans like herself.

[groovytang]

137. She's not a dem. And she would be worse than W

nuff said.

[susankh4]

139. Thank you for stating a simple truth.

I appreciate your support of a fellow Democrat.

K&R

[jgraz]

143. She'd make a great president. Now we just need to find a country that will take her.

Anyone? Beuhler?

[quiet.american]

144. It's just not that simple.

In bed with Rupert Murdoch (recall that he hosted one of her earliest fundraisers) and Richard Mellon Scaife; stating she and McCain were the only qualified candidates in the race (which Bill Clinton also implied); threatening to attack Iran (also like McCain); her deliberately disingenuous interpretation of Obama's remarks about how frustrated and bitter voters have become over politics -- no, that doesn't sound like a "good Dem" to me. Not at all. She's this close to losing all benefit of the doubt I might ever give her that she is a politican who can be counted on to look to do the right and decent thing as far as possible. As it is, the way she is running her campaign gives me the same feeling of daily outrage any campaign run by a Republican has done in the last eight years. I state this as one who has her autobiography on my bookshelf; who voted her into the Senate; who voted twice for her husband, and for whom, as far as I was concerned, the Clintons were the Roosevelts of my generation. Not any more. I cannot agree with a "yep" that she is a "good Dem" -- the way she comes across in this campaign is anything but.