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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 01:37 PM
Original message
Hillary Clinton Offers Solutions for Indiana




BLOOMINGTON | Sen. Hillary Clinton campaigned at Indiana University Friday afternoon.

Sen. Clinton compared the primary to a long job interview. She says the length of the campaign season means that more Americans get to be involved in the decision.

Clinton assured the excited crowd that while change is necessary, she is concerned with solutions.

"My campaign is about solutions. It's about what we will do together once we have a president who will get back into the Oval Office and wake up every morning actually worrying about what's happening in America. I think that would be a nice change."







"But once the election is over, once the rallies are done, the cameras are gone - we have a lot of work to do. And we have to pick a president who is ready, on day one, to begin that work. And to present the kind of solutions and answers that America is looking for. So my campaign admittedly is not about change. It is about solutions. It is about the hard work it takes to make change. Because I think that it is critical that our next president rebuild the relationships that should exist between our president and our people. That we, once again, restore accountability. And that's what I want you to do with me."

Sen Clinton promised to fight for the causes that she and her supporters believe in if she is elected. She recalled the 1990s, claiming that it wasn't long ago that the economy was doing well. She pointed a finger at President Bush and said he lost a balanced budget and a surplus in exchange for tax cuts for the rich and and a war that is being paid for with borrowed money.












GARY | Hillary Clinton was greeted by surprised diners and enthusiastic campaign supporters at the Bennigan's restaurant here.

The senator spent close to an hour shaking hands, signing autographs and chatting with supporters.

Betsy Cowan, of Schererville, a campaign volunteer, shook Clinton's hand and said, "We're working hard for you senator."

"Thank you, we're going to need it," Clinton told her.

Clinton was escorted into the restaurant by Gary Mayor Rudy Clay, the Lake County Democratic chairman who has endorsed Sen. Barack Obama.

"I thought it was appropriate to give her the respect," Clay said. "This presidential campaign is like nothing I've seen in my lifetime, and I don't think I'll see anything like it again."







The lively patrons lined up with camera phones and political paraphernalia in hopes of grabbing pictures and autographs of the presidential hopeful.

“She was gracious to talk to all of us, and she signed everything we had,” said Kimberly Konrady, a business owner from Crown Point who was there with three other friends.

Clinton was in and out of the restaurant in about half an hour, hurrying off the United Steelworkers McBride Hall in Gary to talk with members of the USW’s District 7. There, speaking to a small crowd of more than 100 people, Clinton spoke at length about the trade policies she would pursue to help boost the manufacturing sector of the economy.

“This is not a Republican or Democratic issue,” the senator said. “It’s about who gets it and who doesn’t get it. Because you can’t have an economy that doesn’t make anything and have it be strong for long.” Clinton said she would immediately begin pursuing legal actions against countries that violate trade rules, restitution for companies and workers hurt by unfair trade practices, and the creation of a federal “trade prosecutor” whom she’ll task with ensuring that America’s trade agreements are being followed. “(Americans) are about the nicest people you’ll find in the world, but we’re tired of being taken advantage of,” she said to a rousing ovation.

"You're dependent on foreign countries'' if you don't have a good steel industry, she said. ``This is not only about our economy, it's about our national security.''







GARY | Indiana produces the most steel of any state in the nation, U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton said Friday.

Whether it will stay that way depends on the actions of next president, the Democratic presidential hopeful told the roomful of Northwest Indiana union steelworkers Friday.

"If you don't have an economy that makes things, you're not going to have a strong economy for long," Clinton said of the national economy. "I see the steel industry as a core industry, a base industry."

She vowed to fully investigate complaints filed over violations of international trade rules, and to impose "countervailing duties" to increase the price of goods from overseas when prices are artificially or illegally lowered. She also would create a "trade prosecutor" so her administration could enforce the rules of its agreements and laws.

Asked what she would do about the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., which has lowered pensions for thousands of local steelworkers, Clinton said the problem was the industries.

The PBGC was created to fund pensions after companies could no longer afford them, and it has had trouble because of government funding. But the bigger issue is that companies are too often relying on the organization, she said.

"We've got to make sure the PBGC is funded, but we've also got to make sure companies don't dump their pensions onto it," she said.







EAST CHICAGO | U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton received a rock star welcome from a gymnasium of supporters Friday night as she made her third swing through the region in four weeks.

Talking about issues like foreign currency manipulation and universal health insurance, the New York Democrat was interrupted several times by chants of adoration from supporters.

"I will remember this night in this gymnasium in East Chicago, Indiana," Clinton told the crowd of more than 3,000 at East Chicago Central High. "And we will look back at this night and say, this is where it began."

Clinton urged the crowd in East Chicago to ``think about this decision of May 6 as if it were a hiring decision.''

"You are hiring the next president of the United States of America. The job description is pretty simple -- it's the toughest job in the world,'' she said.








FORT WAYNE, Ind — Senator Hillary Clinton took Indiana voters on a biographical tour in downtown Ft Wayne — relating her own middle class midwestern origins in the hopes that middle class midwesterners here might see her as one of their own. (http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/04/26/clinton-embraces-midwestern-values-will-midwest-embrace-her/)

Clinton said Midwestern values are “really at the root of who we are in this country and what makes America so special. We are a compassionate and caring nation, but we also are a country of people who want to go as far as their hard work and their motivation and vision will take them.”

“I want you to know. I was raised by parents who said actions speak louder than words. Don’t tell me, show me,” she said. “I want you to know what I will do based on what I have done and what I know we can do together.”

Nothing embodies simple midwestern values like the Boy Scout Law, which instructs scouts to be “Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Clean, and Brave.” During his introduction, Ft Wayne mayor Tom Henry asked the crowd whether Clinton would follow each individual tenet of the creed. He was met with cheers of “Yes!” after each one — until he got to Obedient, when Senator Clinton shrugged her shoulders to loud laughs and applause.

‘I don’t know about that,” said the mayor, laughing. “certainly to the taxpayers.”









Sen. Clinton channeled her middle class upbringing in order to relate directly with voters, recounting tales of potluck dinners at her church and painting drapes in her father’s business when she was a child.

“I was born in Chicago and my dad was a small business man – I mean a small business man – he had a small drapery business where he would actually print drapery fabrics and travel around and sell them and he usually enlisted my mother, my brothers, and me,” Clinton said. “You take a squeegee and you do the paint and you pick it up and you move it down the table, it was pretty labor intensive work. But it was one of the many experiences that really taught me the values I had my entire life: hard work, self reliance, individual responsibility good Midwestern values that we were raised with.”

She spoke of her father, who served in the navy during World War II, settling his family down in the Chicago suburbs. “That’s where we grew up, so we went to the schools in walking distance, we went to the church in walking distance,” Clinton told the large crowd that braved intense wind and chilly temperatures to listen to her speak.

“We were at church about three times a week,” she continued. “To go to Sunday school, to go back for youth fellowship, to go back for the potluck dinner in the middle of the week and see all kinds of molded salads of every sort that one could imagine.”







Clinton’s promise to end the war “in a responsible way” brought one of the loudest responses from the crowd. It had particular meaning for Tammy and Dave Long of Auburn, whose two children who served in Iraq.

“They come home and got out just like they should have. They should have never got in,” Dave Long said.

“One of them can’t even get a job,” Tammy Long said.

Clinton alluded to her husband’s eight years in the White House, saying she wants an economy “that will be generating jobs like we did in the 1990s – 22.7 million new jobs.… We can do that again.”

She said her economic platform includes changing the tax code so working-class people don’t pay a higher percentage of income tax than rich people and that businesses that export jobs don’t get tax breaks; a moratorium on trade agreements; insisting that China live by the same trade rules as the U.S.; and investing in clean-energy technology to create 5 million jobs.

“If you will vote for me on May 6, I will never forget you,” Sen. Clinton said. “I will work my heart out for you.”





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Genevieve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. ready on day one.
lol
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. absolutely
despite your sarcasm
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
26. She was ready to lose on day one?
Well, as her buddy would say, "Mission Accomplished".

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datopbanana Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
117. look at that. 1/3 HRC supporters are asleep
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
135. That's our gal.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. Her offer is null and void because she will not be the nominee.
She's lying to you Indiana.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. The ultimate lie is from Obama supporters
. . . who insist that he's already won the nomination, despite failing to receive the necessary amount of actual votes.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I didn't say he's already won the nomination.
But Hillary has indeed been eliminated mathematically.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. if we elected our nominees by polls and pundits it would have been over before it started
I'll wait for the actual votes.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. The actual votes are in, Hillary lost.
Get you head checked if you deny this reality.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. all you have to offer in this thread are your petty insults. There are none in the post.
go play somewhere else.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I'm trying to help you.
You're claiming things that simply aren't true.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. you're not trying to help anyone
you're attempting to disrupt this innocuous thread with off-subject nonsense, I suppose because you think it helps your candidate.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #14
65. Don't worry
It keeps a good thread kicked.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #65
83. tis true
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #83
86. Hey there Rodeo
keep dancing!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #86
88. and keep Ferreting---they are so cute.
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. Bur being the only one who can
and being above the rate required to achieve it, he is the presumptive nominee without real challenge.

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. he's not a 'presumptive nominee'
unless we change the traditional usage of that term just for Obama's benefit.
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. Kerry was the presumptve nominee out of NH
Unless Hillary has a gae plan to win 69% of Indiana and North Carolina, she'll need 85% of the remaining delegates.

If anything it is presumptuous of her to claim she actually has a chance.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. I know you want to ignore the fact that there are only 500,000 or so votes separating them
and pretend like Kerry's race is analogous, but this one is historically close. That deserves the consideration it's being given.
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #38
62. 500,000 votes does not accurately dscribe the contests
Caucuses votes do not equal primary votes 1:1. Some caucuses don't even have official records of who cast what vote.

Delegates is the system in place. If you want to talk votes represented in those standards (the way it was designed) then lets start here:

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/D-Alloc.phtml

1. State's Democratic Vote (SDV): The jurisdiction's popular vote for the Democratic candidate for President in the last three Presidential Elections (1996, 2000, and 2004).
2. Total Democratic Vote (TDV): The total popular vote for the Democratic candidate for President in the last three Presidential Elections (1996, 2000, and 2004).
3. The state's Electoral Vote (SEV).
4. The total Electoral Vote of all jurisdictions (538).

The formula for determining a jurisdiction's Allocation Factor is:

Allocation Factor = ½ × ( ( SDV ÷ TDV ) + ( SEV ÷ 538 ) )


In addition:

Bonus delegates are awarded to states holding their First Determining Step (start their delegate allocation process) later in the cycle. The bonus is awarded as a percentage of the base allocation of pledged delegates and applies to the district and at-large delegates. The bonus does NOT apply to the Pledged PLEO and Unpledged delegates.

The Presidential nomination cycle is divided into 3 Stages: Stage I for January, February, or March; Stage II for April; and Stage III for May or June.

If a state began their 2004 process in January, February, or March and begins their 2008 process in

* April: 15% bonus (Base × 0.15)
* May or June: 30% bonus (Base × 0.3)

If a state began their 2004 process in April and begins their 2008 process in

* April: 5% bonus (Base × 0.05)
* May or June: 30% bonus (Base × 0.3)

If a state began their 2004 process in May or June and begins their 2008 process in

* May or June: 10% bonus (Base × 0.1)

Bonus votes are allocated to jurisdictions as district and at-large delegates.

* Bonus At-Large Delegate Votes = <5%, 10%, 15%, 30%> Bonus Base × 0.25. (Fractions 0.5 and above are rounded to the next highest integer. The number of Bonus At-Large Delegate Votes must be at least 1. If the rounding results in 0 Bonus At-Large Delegate Votes, the number of Bonus At-Large Delegate Votes becomes 1.)
* Bonus District Delegate Votes = <5%, 10%, 15%, 30%> Bonus Base - Bonus At-Large Delegate Votes. (The number of Bonus District delegates plus the number of Bonus At-Large delegates must equal the Bonus Base. Hence, the rounding favors the statewide At-Large allocation.)


This gives later contests slightly more weight.


Roughly speaking though...

1 Delegate = (1996 Dem voters + 2000 Dem Voters + 2004 Dem Voters)/4048

Including MI and FL, 1 delegate = (157,430,363/4048)/3 = 38890.9/3 = 12963.6 voters represented per delegate.
Or if you prefer...

Not including MI an FL 1 delegate = (141748442/4048)/3 = 35016.9/3 = 11672.3 voters represented per delegate.

Hence:

Obama's PLEDGED delegates represent 11672.3 * 1489 = 17,380,054.7 Voters

Clinton's PLEDGED delegates represent 11672.3 * 1333 = 15,559,175.9 Voters

17,380,054.7 - 15,559,175.9 = 1,820,878.8

So in terms of what these contest actually represent in terms of historical Democratic voters is a difference of 1,820,878.8 Democrats that she is behind.

But on the bright side for Hillary, the supers represent Historic democratic voters too, and she is 22 ahead there.

22 * 11672.3 = 256790.6

1,820,878.8 - 256790.6 = 1564088.2

So really she just needs to pick up an additional 1,564,088.2 Democratic voters worth of delegates on top of what ever Obama gets to secure the nomination....

That's how it works.


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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #62
71. you forget those strange allocations of delegates from states
It's inconsistent to argue about the will of the people while standing behind these party constructions which takes our votes and hashes them out according to some insider scheme. I really don't believe in the way some of these caucuses are set up. I suppose we're all free to regard the way these states send off their delegates in whatever way suits us. But, the most evident measure of support, to me, are the popular vote numbers. Those can be extrapolated from the caucuses as well.
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #71
77. OK
Edited on Sat Apr-26-08 10:03 PM by Gore1FL
how many primary voters does a caucus voter equal? Does it depend on state? State size? how do you come to that figure, and is it based on any historical, or made up on the spot?

You may not like the party's rules, but I didn't hear anyone complain about them when they were put into place.

The next question is what is more important, pop vote numbers in the GE, or pop vote numbers in the nomination when it comes to picking a candidate fr a GE?

On Edit:
Actually though, I didn't forget those... they were the bonus delegates which were pu in to make later states count for more to make up for their late contests. I quotes the rules for those specifically.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. good points
I'm no expert, but I do believe all will be resolved when these contests have ended. Obviously I'm not throwing in the towel before those are over.

I've read that, without the party constructions around our votes, with a winner-take-all primary, Hillary Clinton would be leading. That would seem to comport with a general election contest.
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gal Donating Member (534 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #78
132. There could be alot of "what ifs".
We don't have a winner take all process for the Democrats so if you want to say "well if we did it this way...." We could also say well if we did it that way then maybe the delegate counts would be different? We could play "what if" all night.

They both knew how to play the game so let's pick the winner on the current rules not the ones we want just because it would give you the results you seek.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
27. No, he hasn't won it. He's ABOUT to win it. Big difference.
But still true.

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #27
45. Obama fans live in a state of constant delusion.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #45
70. Aren't you getting tired of your wishful thinking?
Reality sucks, I know, but it's unhealthy for you to deny it so often.

TUZLA!

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #70
91. I am optimistic like Hillary--not bitter.
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
106. Actual Votes vs Actual Words
his isn't some little flip flop - this is about thinking you're the inevitable candidate and writing off those voters in FL & MI with no problem. She didn't think she'd ever need them. All this nonsense about her fighting for those voters is an act of desperation because that inevitability train left a long time ago.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #106
108. BOTH candidates 'wrote off some states' in their campaign strategy
Obama allocated his resources to pull off that string of small state caucus victories that gave him weeks of momentum.

And, she IS fighting to represent the needs and concerns of voters . . . the same as her rival.
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #108
113. MI & FL Aren't Just "Some States"
So if Clinton wrote off the voters in the "small states" how is that representing the needs & concerns of those states? She didn't fight for my state - nope - I didn't get one piece of literature or a call from Clinton camp.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #113
125. that was a major mistake
I think she could have been competitive there, and, could have gained a lot from listening to Colorado voters.

Obama misered out his resources in a few small states as well.
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ps1074 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. I hate that woman
eom
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. good for you
who cares?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
92. too bad you are so bitter.
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #92
107. Say Something Nice About Sen. Obama
mr. Subject line only!
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
116. That kitten has repetitive stress injury
Why do you hate cats and kittens?
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
9. Obviously, she wasn't;t ready on "day one" to run a campaign...
Obama on the other hand, was.

Speaking of that debt… “Hillary Clinton's campaign debt at the end of March was bigger than it appeared because she didn't list the $5 million she loaned herself, a campaign finance watchdog group” (the Center for Responsive Politics) reported yesterday afternoon. “Clinton, in her filing with the Federal Election Commission, reported that her campaign had $9 million in cash on hand as of March 30, and $10 million in debts.” But, “Including the loan would put her debt as of March 30 at $15.3 million, the nonpartisan group said.”

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/04/25/944966.aspx

If she became President and ran the nation's economy like her campaign, this country would be deeper shit than it is today. I suspect she might be just as bad as Bush at running things.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. That's just nonsense
I'm not going to make any decision about someone's potential in office based on how their handlers manage a primary contest. And, I don't want a presidency run like a campaign.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. Actually, I think that's what the primary is for
If you run for office and don't do well, you don't just blame your handlers. you blame your own judgment in choosing those people. Every manager's staff fucks up from time to time but successful managers deal with issue rather than avoiding it.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. not every successful primary bid is a successful bid for the presidency
Even by that standard which I don't agree with the verdict's still out.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
29. What about honesty? Is that important to you?
If so, why do you support a proven liar like clinton?

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. shitstirring?
endearing
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #33
73. So you can't, or refuse to, answer the question?
I'm serious. Why do you support a proven liar?

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #73
79. shitstirring . . .
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #29
44. Is honesty important to you? BHO is a proven lier and you know it.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #44
72. If there were actual evidence, I'd know it. Since there's not, you fail.
clinton, on the other hand - Tuzla videos and NAFTA documents and hospital records, oh my!

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #72
80. Get your head out of the sand and you will see the Obama lies
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gal Donating Member (534 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #11
133. It's a legitimate issue for a lot of people.
It may not matter to you but to others it does. She was not president for 8 years, we are not voting for her husband so we don't have a history to go on. And no I don't count having tea with foreign dignitaries as Presidential experience. Their campaign represents what they stand for and how you can expect them to conduct themselves in the future.
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Bensthename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
15. This ham sand which I am eating right now is really good.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
16. kick
:kick:
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. kick
:kick:
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groovytang Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
18. Stop with the pic heavy threads
Takes too long to scroll through
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. disruptor
Edited on Sat Apr-26-08 08:33 PM by bigtree
:sigh:
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
47. too bad
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
20. It's nice to see her playing the smaller venues again,
she can make smaller hand gestures and doesn't have to yell quite so much....
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #20
90. Except for a few spots--she does do the smaller groups--She listens and learns from the voters
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
22. ...
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
25. Oh, I was hoping it was her concession she was offering as a solution.
Ah well. She'll be forced to accept her loss at some point.

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. piling on?
inspiring
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. It was clever.
And thanks for taking the time to compile this thread.

I don't doubt that Hillary has "solutions for Indiana". She's got great plans, it's just really too bad that she's so polarizing that none of those plans will ever happen. If only she could rise above partisan warfare.

Too bad.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #34
75. Her constant proven lies don't do her any favors either.
And to think I used to defend her.

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #75
82. Obama has proven lies. Over and Over he lies
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. Piling on? Is that how you see the truth of her impending loss?
I really do see her conceding her loss as a positive thing, to save McLame from more material to use against our nominee (who will not be clinton).

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #35
101. too bad Obams had all that stinking material in his kitchen sink!! --Repugs will love it.
I really do see her conceding her loss as a positive thing, to save McLame from more material to use against our nominee (who will not be clinton).
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. *snort*
:rofl:
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
50. Obama fans best save their donations. They will de-programming
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
32. Indiana has solutions for Hillary
bye bye Hillary
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. they have to vote first
I know how this irks some folks.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #32
54. Get her a flight schedule!
:rofl:
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susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
39. As always, Fabulous!
She looks just beautiful!

Thanks.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #39
56. she really does look beautiful
more and more each day
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
40. Didn't we see this thread, last night?
Enough, bigtree. The pictures aren't even that good. What, about a 100 people at this one?
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. you're just shitstirring here (and elsewhere)
give it up
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. at least I'm not a doorknob, bigtree.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. so, I'm a doornob
oh boy!
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Hey, bigtree
Win or lose, I'll be here. You?
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. most folks here
. . . that I care about already know the answer to that
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Answer the question, bigtree
You sound like Hillary in the debates.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. keep digging through my threads
you might get a clue
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. No time, bigtree
Yes or no. Simple.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #57
89. demanding answers when you could do some research. Arrogant.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #89
93. hey rodeo
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 09:55 AM by bigtree
:bounce::hi::hi::hi::bounce:
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #93
95. hey Bigtree. Keep up the good work. Beatiful day in my neck of the woods for once. have a good day.
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #95
98. Cmon bigtree
How many photo displays for Clinton. How many for Obama? Surely you've kept track.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #98
100. still being LAZY--as you expect others to do your work for you.
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #100
104. rodeo
you're developing a nasty habit here coming to the rescue of your fellow posters. At best, it' arrogant. At worst, it belittles them to the point that they can't fight their own battles. In other words, mind your own business.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #104
111. ~~YES WE WILL~~
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #95
105. I hope you make it out to enjoy it
beautiful rain here with a bit of colder weather. good day to stay in and chill and let the plants drink it up. :hi:
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #105
112. I DID -thanks.
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #112
114. Let me be the first to say, that I'll miss you Rodeo
You've hung to many labels on Obama to be any help to us in the GE. And, I don't see you as a hypocrit backing him. So , I promise to drop in on you at MYDD wher I'll find you and the rest of you bitter allies. I'll miss our little jousts, though.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #114
121. i am not going away sweetie. He earns his labels.
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #121
122. Well, rodeo
Than I'm glad we'll have your support! I misjudged you. My apologies.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #122
127. Have a nice day
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #105
115. No photo montage today, bigtree?
Isn't it Obama's day. In post #67, every other thread is Obamas. Get to work.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #115
118. you must be busy
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 03:29 PM by bigtree
I posted this one this morning before I went to sleep


Barack Obama Can't Wait to Bring Jobs to Indiana
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5704186&mesg_id=5704186


now, no more trifling with you, Condem.
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #118
119. Cutting the lawn for the first time, bigtree
I owe you an apology. Thanks for the posting.
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susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
41. Don't quit with the pics, Bigtree!
I love the positive message they send.

K&R.
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cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
49. Great job Bigtree.
You don't deserve the response at all. I wish you could just ignore the hate. They feed off responses and never say anything remotely valuable.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
53. Maybe she can be President of Indiana.
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CatnHat Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #53
85. Yep--
She's already president of New York, California, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Texas, New Jersey, New Mexico, Mass., Florida, Michigan, etc.

To OP--great post and pics!!!
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #85
97. President of Florida and Michigan!
:woohoo:
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #97
103. That's a bushy thing. Try using crap other than RW smut.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
58. Excellent, Thank You For Posting bigtree : )
:grouphug: :pals:
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
59. Delete, Accidental Dupe (sorry) (nt)
Edited on Sat Apr-26-08 09:10 PM by Dinger
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
60. a positive Hillary thread
thank you for taking the time to post this

fascinating that so many Obama supporters feel they have to come in here

and shit on this thread.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. it looked like a good pile on thread, I suppose
for frustrated folks here
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. .
Please see post #34.

This was not my attempt to pile-on. This is my honest interpretation of the situation.

Thanks.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. I'm sorry if I misrepresented your post with that
But you should be able to see how ridiculous this is. My post is a mere report from the trail.

How about a starting separate one that hashes those issues out by themselves? That would be fairer (and more productive) than responding to this fluff post and looking for that type of debate.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. No worries.
I actually didn't read all of the thread.

Sorry that the thread didn't turn out as you had intended. I did enjoy reading your OP though, FWIW.
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. bigtree
I love your work. I only wish it was for Obama.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. I use (nearly) every other thread post for Barack Obama
Edited on Sat Apr-26-08 09:37 PM by bigtree
here's the latest, less than 24 hrs ago

Obama to Kokomo
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5689225&mesg_id=5689225


I work nights, and, I just went to bed after the piling on began on this thread instead of posting my usual reciprocal Obama report. It just gets ridiculous sometimes . . .
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. bigtree
I Luv ya!
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #67
76. That's true. Sorry I came off as "piling on", but I really hate unrepentant liars like clinton.
I have always hated being lied to.

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #76
81. The you hate Obama also. Cause he is a LIER
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cyndensco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #81
124. Do you mean something with the word "lier"
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 05:28 PM by cyndensco
or is it just a misspell? Really, you have written it that way more than once - does it mean "liar" or someone who lies (down)?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #124
126. I mean he is big lier. I do not play his WORT game
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 05:50 PM by rodeodance
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cyndensco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #126
128. ah, that's clever...
:sarcasm:
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #128
134. Thank you.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-26-08 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
74. percisely
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
84. Thanks for the great post.
Talent here is easily appreciated, even though I have myself been critical at times. Well done, and the last line resonates.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #84
94. Bigtree once told me pictures help ground the campaign. He is right.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
87. kick
:kick:
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pecwae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
96. k
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
99. very nice as always
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
102. Hillary has the populist message in IN as she had in PA
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PoliticalAmazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
109. Hillary the Hypocrite Strikes Again! Is she unable of campaigning on her merits?...

"Clinton alluded to her husband’s eight years in the White House, saying she wants an economy “that will be generating jobs like we did in the 1990s – 22.7 million new jobs.… We can do that again.”"

Hillary has been a zealous force in sending American jobs to her India corporate backers (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5470049#5470147). She if jobs were created, and then made lucrative by the innovation and know-how, as well as hard work, of Amerian workers, she would promptly send them to India.

Another issue: Her continuation of implying that she was a co-president to WJC. The "we" is a subtle implication that she was part of the original job creation, when there is no evidence to support that.

Is it impossible for her to run on her own merits? Must she stoop to hypocricy and riding on Bill Clinton's coat-tails?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #109
110. Candidates relay on past presidents good issues. Obama said Bush i was great .
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PoliticalAmazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #110
130. ? doesn't make sense to me. Would you please clarify?...
...I don't know what Bush "i" (Bush Sr?) has to do with Hillary's hypocrisy.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
120. Thanks!!!
Great post, as always!!!!!!!!!!

:thumbsup:
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #120
123. thanks for looking in, Beacool
:hi:
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #123
129. I always look at your posts, even though I'm very busy
with her campaign and my own work. You do such a great job of putting together positive and informative posts.

Take care!!!

:eyes:
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #123
131. I look forward to all your posts.
Keep it up bigtree.
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
136. looks like a W to me..
:rofl:








GOBAMA!
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