Nothing would have stopped Dems from winning the White House in Nov...except Obama

[Seeker30]

We went from 8 years of the best economic times ever under Clinton to 8 years of the worst under Bush with things only getting worse. The Republicans fully expected to lose the White House this year and 6 months ago were already focusing on 2012. Just about ANY Democrat would be a landslide against McCain under normal circumstances.

But then came Obama. The unknown rookie who came into the race with ties to such extremists he has had to spend half his time trying to convince people of his patriotism, and the other half playing victim by painting one of the greatest presidents of our time a racist.

Obama followers have successfully tarnished the Clinton years to the point Republicans could only dream of. Bill Clinton fought off attack after attack by the right wing and in the process his administration created more than 22.5 million jobs—the most jobs ever created under a single administration; unemployment dropped to the lowest level in more than 30 years, down from 6.9 percent in 1993 to just 4.0 percent in January 2001; unemployment for African Americans fell from 14.2 percent in 1992 to 7.3 percent in 2000, the lowest rate on record; inflation dropped to its lowest rate since the Kennedy Administration; homeownership rate reached 67.7 percent near the end of the Clinton administration, the highest rate on record; the poverty rate declined from 15.1 percent in 1993 to 11.8 percent in 1999, the largest six-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years. This left 7 million fewer people in poverty than there were in 1993. Not to mention the surpluses he left. And Obamas have done nothing but trash this man and Hillary, all to get your unknown messiah elected. Its no fucking wonder over 40% of Clinton supporters will not vote for Obama under ANY circumstances.

So now we're in a situation that Obama will most likely win the nomination. In the process you have almost a quarter of the democrats pissed off to the point they will not vote for him, and once the republicans get into full gear and attack the Wright issue, Obama's inexperience, question his patriotism, etc, Obama will not stand a chance. Hillary has been tame compared to how the right wing operates.

What should have been a cakewalk to the white house for dems will now turn into another 4 years of McCain....all thanks to Obama.

[LakeSamish706]

1. Where did you get this crock of crap?

"But then came Obama. The unknown rookie who came into the race with ties to such extremists he has had to spend half his time trying to convince people of his patriotism, and the other half playing victim by painting one of the greatest presidents of our time a racist."

What a bunch of bullshit you post!

[TheCowsCameHome]

16. RNC or Rush Limbaugh, most likely.

[SoxFan]

43. Damn him, that uppity negro, damn him!

[ScarletSniper]

73. Uh huh..how dare he.. forget his place..

[BlueStater]

89. Thanks for proving the OP's point, you guys

Why don't you follow the way of your hero and actually try uniting. Constantly implying that everyone who opposes him is a racist isn't going to win people over to your side.

[ScarletSniper]

97. You're welcome. Peolpe are either going to vote for him or they are not.

If they let something I say influence their decision, then its sad. I know nothing a Hillary supporter says can make or break my vote for her, she does that all her own.

[dmr]

99. They are proving the OP's racist point

Out of all that the OP wrote, African American was the only point highlighted for all to read: "... unemployment for African Americans fell from 14.2 percent in 1992 to 7.3 percent in 2000, the lowest rate on record ..."

What other point was the OP making by that highlight?

[Seeker30]

104. Uh...because you dipshits keep calling Clinton a racist

[dmr]

116. Most have never called Clinton a racist & most are not dipshits

Shame on you on both counts.

You flame-baited this thread by that highlight. Your post could have stood on its own without doing that. You highlighted nothing else which is flame-bait for either African Americans mean more than anything else, or African Americans owe him something, or he can't be flame-baiting in Hillary's campaign because he once created jobs.

Many of us stood by Clinton for many, many years; and we do recognize he did good things during his presidency. That doesn't mean, however, that we turn our backs to our own convictions on what we believe or who we believe is a better candidate.

Good on you for wanting to praise Bill Clinton. But if you really wanted to talk to us 'dipshits' about racism, it's a shame you had to betray a nice thread about Bill by throwing in that racist highlight at the end.

All I ask is you think about it.

Good night.

[JoFerret]

108. The Clintons have always been a "friend" of the AA community

because the Clinton-Gore administration brought jobs and the AA community returned the favor by supporting President Clinton is very high numbers right to the end. The story at the time (late nineties) was that many saw in Bill Clinton a person unjustly treated and unfairly attacked.

[PurityOfEssence]

103. So, is any opposition to him proof of racism?

What if you just can't stand overt use of religion in politics? What if mealy-mouthed politicians who habitually duck controversy while ingratiating themselves to corporatists just turn your stomach? What if revisionists make your skin crawl, especially when smearing around hypotheticals about how he would or wouldn't have voted on something? What if pals of Medicine Incorporated (hell, he lives with a for-profit medical administrator who makes $6K a WEEK) disgust you and make you question their sincerity about making health care available to all? What if you're just tired of vague homilies of pathetic yearning like "hope" by calculating avoiders?

Is this ALL racism? Is ALL opposition to his tactics and policies proof of bigotry? If you answer "yes", then you're either fixated on racism or perfectly willing to fan any flames just for your personal triumph. "Getting away with it" may be one of the major character traits of the American personality, but that doesn't make it nice or right.

The South Carolina 40 Days of Faith Snake Oil Revue was an act of ethnic identity politics designed to pull people away from another candidate based on culture. That, of course, is not racism. Why? Because his supporters say so.

The continual through-line with all this is that his word is NEVER to be questioned, and his faithful acolytes are devoted simply from abstract and color-blind love of his breath-of-fresh-air new policies and personal greatness. The sheer ugliness that's constantly brought to full flower by anyone questioning his word or intentions is nauseating. His supporters are not any "nicer" or "decent" than supporters of Senator Clinton, yet far too few accept that, and feel cosmically entitled to engage in ANY level of nastiness to do so.

This sense of entitlement makes many of us puke. I'm not a Clinton supporter and REALLY don't like her, but I must say that I'm quite surprised to encounter a politician and supporters whom I like considerably LESS; a year ago I wouldn't have expected THAT.

[ecdab]

80. But, but...but - it was Hillary's turn, she was entitled to it.. Pretty elitist of her

wouldn't you agree?

[krkaufman]

94. From out of their backside. Utter nonsense, to the point of humorous.

Gotta love the hyperbole coming from those most rational of actors, the Clinton supporters. Woe unto Obamabots, Obamatons and their ilk.

[JoFerret]

110. You don't think it's likely that only Obama

could have derailed Clinton?

[livetohike]

2. The Clintons joint presidency will not happen as much

as you want to see Bill in the White House again. Guess things were great for you in the 90's, but this is his wife who is running. I think.

[tekisui]

3. Hillary isn't Bill. Bill's not running.

Right?

[Seeker30]

5. Then why have Obama's trashed him like they have?

[tekisui]

6. Why has he said so much stupid shit?

[rodeodance]

13. You folks trash him for existing. Most of you mirrow the RW!

[Seeker30]

24. They are worse than the right wing

[tekisui]

27. That is funny coming from you.

The RW shit that has come from the Clintong camp...hell, they don't even hide it. They mingle and praise fox, scaife, murdoch, have a drudge liason, go on rw talk shows, send out Norquiest emails.

Look in the mirror.

[Seeker30]

71. Me? I don't run Hillary's campain

You people are funny.

[tekisui]

83. You're right, I'm not sure I've even seen anything from you other than

anti-Obama hate. Do you even like Hillary or the Democratic Party?

[Seeker30]

85. You obviously cannot comprehend more than a sentence at a time

What grade are you in?

[cliffordu]

75. And we mirror the truth. I don't know from mirrow

[Mooney]

39. Because Bill Clinton is campaigning against Obama.

[Seeker30]

52. No, he's campaigning for Hillary

[Mooney]

58. So when he said that Obama's antiwar position was a "fairy tale"

he wasn't campaigning against Obama?

[Seeker30]

60. No, he was speaking fact

and responding to Obama's bullshit anti-war stance. You know the war that he voted everytime to continue to fund?

[Mooney]

68. So when Bill Clinton said that,

he wasn't campaigning against Obama? Who was he campaigning against then? Mike Gravel?

[otohara]

82. The Fairy Tale - Bill Clinton Opposed War From Beginning

Former president Bill Clinton said on Tuesday that he "opposed Iraq from the beginning,"

Big Fat LIE

[Duke Newcombe]

90. And Hillary is selling her administration as "two for one"

and claiming every "win" that her husband has garnered.

So, HRC supporters, which is it: Does she get to claim Clinton 1's sucesses (and failures) as her own, or is she running for, by, and on her own?

Duke

[Seeker30]

93. And?

Whats your point?

[Duke Newcombe]

95. No "cherry picking" allowed.

If she's claiming her husband's administration's successes, then she owns the whole thing, not just the good parts. Questions about whether she'll govern and make decisions in the same vein are fair game--especially having Clinton 1 helping her out in the two for one scenario.

I can't be any clearer than that.

Duke

[DearAbby]

4. lol!

Sounds like the final line of a Scooby Doo Cartoon...."If it wasn't for that meddling Obama...we could have taken over!...CURSES! FOILED AGAIN!!"

[cali]

7. codswallop. and boring bitter codswallop at that.

[BlueIdaho]

8. I find it interesting that

as we get closer to the inevitable end of HRC's campaign her supporters become less lucid.

[davidinalameda]

9. I like how they blame Obama for winning

while ignoring the fact that her campaign has been run straight into the ground by her and hers

[VolcanoJen]

47. Enough with the rallies, and the big speeches...

... and the beating me, and the winning. :-)

[boppers]

117. Lol, VolcanoJen!

:rofl:

[cali]

17. and less creative and more repetitive and more desperate

they need new material.

:hi:

[ScarletSniper]

74. and even more bitter...they blame her downfall on everything and everyone..except Hillary

[TragedyandHope]

10. We will win in November

despite Clinton's scorched earth efforts to spoil our candidate and our party.

[newmajority]

11. The economics of the 1990's had fuck all to do with Bill Clinton.

It was all about new technology. Industries that didn't even exist before were suddenly employing millions.

Of course many of those jobs were later outsourced to India and China. Thanks to Clinton "free trade" agreements.

[Seeker30]

22. More right wing bullshit

Clintons administration put in place tax incentives for new technology and they also turned over Internet backbones to the general public that were previously used only by the govt and edu's. This is what created the internet boom.

And NAFTA had not one fucking thing to do with outsourced jobs to India and China, show the free trade agreement that Clinton had to do with that.

[RaleighNCDUer]

48. Clinton administration = Al Gore, on that issue.

The lie about Gore inventing the internet only took root because the initiatve to move the net private was Gore's. Clinton gets NO credit for it.

As for NAFTA, it created a downward spiral of exporting industries, and as more industries were exported to Mexico, more were displaced FROM Mexico to the even cheaper markets - China, India, Inodnesia. All with the blessing of the WTO and "free trade".

And that is a LEFT wing complaint - no matter how much you fantasists want to insist that left is right.

[newmajority]

50. Don't ever refer to me as a "right winger"

The irony of that accusation coming from a Hillbot, whose candidate leads the DLC, openly shills for FAUX Noize, and BRAGS about Limbaugh's Dildoheads "winning" primaries for her.

[Seeker30]

56. Then don't act like one

And with your line of thinking Bush has nothing to do with our screwed up economy, is that what you're saying?

[newmajority]

62. I never said anything of the kind.

To the contrary, it's the entire 28 years of BushClinton corporatist trickle down, reverse robin hood, destroy the middle class policies which have ruined the economy.

[Seeker30]

69. Right, so when Clinton fought and raised minimum wage twice

he was destroying the middle class. Or when he placed into law the the Family and Medical Leave Act, or when he expanded the Earned Income Tax Credit to cut the taxes of 15 million working families, or the Student Loan Reform Act, or when he made the Low-Income Housing Tax Credit permanent he was against the middle class.

Do you even know what the hell you are talking about?

[Duke Newcombe]

91. No, those NAFTA jobs went to Mexico instead...

...pitty.

Duke

[Bensthename]

28. nailed it..

:thumbsup:

[newmajority]

51. Hey, I do my best. Thanks.

It's not easy, sometimes, wading through the whirlpool of Hillbot spin.

[Bensthename]

53. Have you read this one on Hillary yet? It is so right about her it is scary.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5697788&mesg_id=5697788

This puts her campaign in perspective pretty well too.

[jasmine621]

66. His tax cut for the middle class...which all money gasbags say is so important

to a thriving economy...was passed without one vote from the Repugs...Gore was the tie-breaking vote.
Those "Clinton free trade agreements" that your ignorant self condemns were part of legislation that was approved by Congress BEFORE Clinton took office. It was a trade bill pushed by the Republicans and bought into by many Dems. Clinton merely signed the bill into law. Yes, he supported free-trade as do most of Congress. We have had similar free trade agreements with Israel, Turkey, and GB and many other nations for decades. Same kind of provisions. Didn't seem to bother anyone all those years but it is now more about another kind of race card...those brown folks beneath us and those yellow folks across from us. But I guess that is too much for peanut brains to comprehend especially when they know little about free trade and can only repeat the talking points the RW has thrown out there for the dittoheads to eat up with illegal immigration stew, while the RW Wall street fat cats do everything in their power to keep the illegal flow coming.

[rodeodance]

12. Obama fans are smearing Hillary and Bill just the RW did. They use Rove's book to do it.

[movonne]

21. And the clinton's are using karl rove's play book...I hope you are

not as crazy as your avatar is...

[ScarletSniper]

78. "I hope you are not as crazy as your avatar is..."

LMAO! :rofl:

[smiley_glad_hands]

98. You are so delusional. eom

[C_U_L8R]

14. Hillary can't even balance her own friggin checkbook

Her campaign finances are a wreck... is that how we want the country run???

I can't afford 4 years of Hillary.

[rodeodance]

15. REC

[Forkboy]

18. You sound bitter.

[Saturday]

19. My gut feeling is those here on DU that smear the Clinton's and

BC's administration were in grade school at the time and don't know diddle about those years.

[movonne]

26. Well I was and I have also seen this country go from a great country

with pimples to what we got today...acne...you are the one that sound very young and snarky..

[Saturday]

45. No, I'm old and snarky. nt

[anonymous171]

37. Well, Senator Rodham is running for office.

[cbayer]

65. That rings very true with me as well.

I have been trying to get my head around why Clinton, who was one of the most admired presidents in my lifetime (not a short one, BTW), is being trashed as if he were the worst president ever. I think you are right. I think there are a lot of new voters who have no first hand knowledge of Bill Clinton as president. In that case, it would be very easy to tell them anything and have them believe it. Fascinating.

[totodeinhere]

79. They are not stupid.

In that case, it would be very easy to tell them anything and have them believe it.

That might be true if most of the people you are talking about are stupid. But they are not. For instance, in my case, I have read extensively about the Clinton years. And I have discussed it a lot with my parents who were witnesses to his administration. So no way would I believe anything about the Clinton years. In fact, I consider the suggestion that I would insulting.

I saw a thread at DU a while ago that bemoaned the fact that some DU posters are putting down older people. Well, I am here to tell you that it's a two way street. Ageism can concern either older people or younger people, and in both cases it's dead wrong.

[cbayer]

81. Ageism is wrong and I do not think the younger voters are stupid at all.

You may have done your homework and talked at length to your parents. That would make you informed. I would suggest that others may have not had that opportunity so they may not have any historical context when presented with information on the Clinton presidency.

I did not mean to insult you or anyone else. I am very happy that younger voters are coming out in droves. Their primary perspective on politics in this country has been obtained over the last eight years and I certainly can understand why they are angry and determined.

I was just having trouble understanding how Bill Clinton's presidency has been so radically distorted and the age difference made some sense to me.

[totodeinhere]

76. So you are implying that we younger people don't know how to read?

Nice insult.

[WeDidIt]

20. That's every bit as absurd as it is when an Obama Supporter

spews similar garbage about Clinton.

[BenDavid]

23. Seeker, you are exactly right. I have said for months, we had this

election won until Obama decided he wanted to "unite us" and boy has he ever done one hell of a job doing it.

Question:
Would Obama be a stronger candidate (and perhaps the future of our party)after getting 4 or 8 years of White House experience the way Al Gore did?

[Mooney]

38. And you've been wrong every time you've said it.

We never had this election won. It was always going to be an uphill battle, no matter who the nominee is.

The assumption that Hillary Clinton would be a shoo-in is a symptom of exactly the mindset that is causing her to lose. She didn't think she would have to actually campaign intelligently, because she thought she had it in the bag.

I'm sorry the voters had other ideas.

[Seeker30]

59. If it wasnt Hillary it would have been Edwards or anyone else

and you would be on here trashing them the same way to save your messiah.

[Mooney]

67. I have no messiah.

Obama was maybe my fifth choice. Hillary just happened to be dead last. Obama won my support by default.

But by all means, believe whatever uninformed silliness you want.

[newmajority]

64. REAL question

Would America be a weaker country after years 28-32 or 28-36 of BushClinton corporatist trickle-down reverse robin hood neocon rape the middle class bullshit?

The answer is obviously "yes", but I'm not willing to find out either way. This shit ends NOW.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Seeker30]

31. Keep playing the race victim card

its getting old and people are starting to see through the bullshit.

[anonymous171]

34. Dynasties are inherently unamerican.

[anonymous171]

29. Meanwhile, 51% of the entire country hates Hillary.

[Strelnikov_]

49. Don't know about 'hate', but 54% disapproval sure as hell ain't the definition of 'electable'

down here in Pigsknuckle.

One of the main reasons I got behind Obama early is my strong doubts as to Clintons ability to win the GE.

[Liberal Gramma]

30. #76 You've earned it

[earthside]

32. Oh, Brother!

Three points.

1. Obama is not 'trashing' the economy of the Clinton years -- even though the outsourcing of American jobs really got started turning that time.

2. Bill Clinton is not running for president.

3. Talk about being savaged -- remember Hill nearly being indicted in the 90s? Remember the Rose Law firm? Remember the missing billing records? Remember Web Hubble? Remember cattle futures and MCI stock? How about the Vince Foster suicide?

What the Republicans will to do Hillary will be a slime attack like we have never seen in American political history ... by the time they are done, old Hill's mother will probably not even vote for her.

Democrats should be thanking their lucky stars that an upright, honorable person like Barack Obama is going to be their nominee.

[Bensthename]

44. amen brother

:thumbsup:

[Melinda]

33. Why do you hate America and our representative form of government?

Why?

[anonymous171]

35. ITT: The Clinton Cult

[ElsewheresDaughter]

36. kick & rec...off to the greatest page with you

[RaleighNCDUer]

40. Actually, Gore's inventing the internet had more to do with the economic

boom of the 90s than Bill's policies which started the process of shipping our industry overseas and replaced it with the greatest influx of immigrants since the turn of the century.

But of course, the DLC believes those are GOOD things.

And don't worry about Obama - He'll kick McCain's ass, despite Hillary trying to sabatoge him.

[nichomachus]

41. But Obama is the only real Democrat in the race

Hillary is just a republican in Democrat clothing

[Bensthename]

42. She lost this herself. And so he has a colorful preacher.. Why so scared of the Cons any way?

If she cant beat Obama then what makes you think she can beat McCain? The war hero vs fake war hero (and you thought they made Kerry look bad on the military front). Imagine the commercials if you dare. And you don't think they have a laundry list beside Bosnia? Hers is much worse I promise you. We've just been nice and not brought them up. They've been strategically planning and waiting on her the day she announced plans for the senate.

As far as his "ties to such extremists", his pastor has been taken way out of context and the couple of others they are trying to run with are bogus non legitimate stories. They have a weak argument against him. If they weren't painting this story they would have made him more of a racist figure. Or they would be nit picking his senate vote, something. All regular bs politics.. They have no negative on him that his positives dont make up for and far surpass.. If Hillary were the to be nominee they would be painting her in a very bad light right now.

The other main reason he beat Hillary is he strategically beat her in delegates. He has a better ground game and he will do the same with McCain. He will win November.

[Yossariant]

46. Indeed. Obamafans have, like DU, become caricatures of themselves.

They have become the thing they claim to hate.

[stevenleser]

54. Official "Ignorant of the fact that the GOP has built a case against Hillary for 8 years" *PLONK*

[featherman]

55. Nah

[whatchamacallit]

57. She can't win the GE if she can't win the primary - she stopped herself.

[RBInMaine]

61. Please, please get back on your meds.

[calmblueocean]

63. What quotes specifically are you referring to?

If Obama spent half his time painting Bill Clinton as a racist, I'm sure you have a lot of them. Share a few.

[Steely_Dan]

70. Excellent Post, Seeker...

Finally, someone is posting from the reality based world.

I might add that Hillary has about as much chance of being President as well. They were the two weakest candidates of the lot.

What should have been a shoe-in in November is now a horse-race. Only the Dems could shoot themselves in the foot...again.

-P

I might add...

Just today, an Obama supporter posted that Hillary has been using horrible tactics to include "kneecapping." Now, I know that the poster didn't really mean that. However, it is still interesting how some Obama supporters are so free with their words...Kneecapping?!

-P

[d00mzday]

72. Get over it!

The people who can't get past there selfish pettiness deserve what & who they vote for. The rest will unite for the better of the country and vote Obama!

[groovytang]

77. Obama will lose 50 states

It'll be "historic" alright, for all the wrong reasons

[GoldieAZ49]

84. The repubs couldn't defeat us this year, dems had to do it themselves

and they did so gladly

[MethuenProgressive]

86. K&R!

I see the HillHaters o-mail loop is active tonight.
:hi: Mob!

[Seeker30]

88. Yes they are quite amusing

[Moochy]

114. You are a mean person

But you knew that.

[scheming daemons]

87. If Hillary cuts out the bullshit now, we'll STILL win in November... she's ACTIVELY trying to -

prevent it now.


Clyburn sees it.

[ProSense]

92. Nothing will stop Hillary from believing she can win, except Obama.

Hillary is losing. Dems will win.

She is a lousy candidate. Look at how she ran her campaign: she's $15 million dollars in debt and behind Obama 30 states to her 15.

She lost, not women, she lost. She lost, not Dems, she lost. She lost, face it.

[Freedom Train]

96. Yes, thank you Obama!

And to think you said that you wouldn't even run for president in '08! The people of Illinois thank you for being truthful with them!

[Raffi Ella]

100. yeah

THANKS TO THE "UNITER"!!!

Bush was a Uniter too!!!!!!!!!!!! REMEMBER!??????????

[Life Long Dem]

101. Your title sounds like you have a crystal ball?

Your crystal ball your holding is simply to smear and divide the party more.

[mmonk]

102. Dishonest and hateful.

You only make it more difficult for me to vote for your inevitable and owed candidate.

[sellitman]

105. Hilly can blame only herself.

She has run a campaign that has even her best friends running for the hills. Richardson was just the beginning. Super Delagate after SD leave her and its always Obamas fault with you people. Your candidate has bankrupted her campaign, run a fowl dirty smearing campaign and that is Obamas fault. She has picked McCain over Barack as best equiped to run the country and that too is Obamas fault too I suppose? She has stunk up the whole primary and now she gets to go home. Deal with it.

[Kablooie]

106. Well, there ya go. Democrats have lost. Might as well close down the party and go home.

I mean without Clintons running it, who really wants this country anyway?
Might as well hand it over to Limbaugh and Coulter right now and submit
ourselves to their rule. Nothing to be done about it now.

[IsItJustMe]

107. You sound very bitter. Obama feels your pain. LOL

[Vinca]

109. I guess Obama is lucky then.

If he should happen to lose, it will be obvious why: Hillary. She's been running the Republican campaign against him, playing tag team with McCain, for about 6 weeks now and doesn't look as if she'll return to civility any time soon. On the other hand, what would Hillary the loser say? She would have coerced and connived her way to the nomination, denying the frontrunner his spot, and crashed and burned at the end.

[superduperfarleft]

111. RE: Unemployment numbers for African-Americans

From: http://www.cjcj.org/pubs/clinton/clinton.html

Despite the fact that about 2/3 of crack cocaine users are white or Hispanic, 84.5% of defendants convicted of crack possession in federal court in 1994 were African American, 10.3% white, and 5.2% Hispanic according to data from the United States Sentencing Commission. Trafficking offenders were 4.1% white, 88.3% black, and 7.1% Hispanic.

By contrast, powder cocaine offenders were more racially mixed. Defendants convicted of simple possession of cocaine powder were 58% white, 26.7% black, and 15% Hispanic. The powder trafficking offenders were 32% white, 27.4% black, and 39.3% Hispanic.

As a part of the 1994 crime bill that President Clinton signed, the U.S. Sentencing Commission--a body designed to develop and oversee federal sentencing guidelines--was directed to study the effects of these laws. In 1995, they recommended equalizing the quantity of crack and powder cocaine that would trigger a mandatory sentence. Congress rejected that recommendation, which marked the first time it had done so since the establishment of the commission. President Clinton followed Congress and signed the rejection into law.

From: http://www.counterpunch.org/gray1207.html

So, the fact that Clinton left behind a larger -- mostly black -- prison population than when he took office should come as no surprise. Black incarceration rates during the Clinton years surpassed Ronald Reagan's eight years. The incarceration rates for blacks increased from around 3,000 per 100,000 to 3,620 per 100,000 people during his administration. That he did nothing about mandatory minimum sentences ­ no surprise. That he did nothing to change the sentencing disparity between crack and powder cocaine that disproportionately affects African Americans ­ no surprise. That he successfully stumped for "three strikes and you're out in the crime bill, for restrictions on the right of habeas corpus and expansion of the federal death penalty ­ no surprise. When he came into office one in four black men were involved in the criminal justice system in some way; when he left it was one in three. In many states ex-felons are denied the right to vote, a factor that had a direct impact on the 2000 presidential vote in Florida. Again, no surprise.

You do realize that unemployment numbers don't include the prison population, right? So how much of that dip in unemployment among the African-American community was due to the fact that so many working-age black men were imprisoned due to draconian drug laws that Clinton saw no problem either enforcing or making tougher?

Just another PWL....

[ginchinchili]

112. The truth is, neither of these politicians make strong presidential candidates.

Clinton came into this carrying a lot of baggage, much of it unfairly propagandized by the RW with the help of our compliant and complacent news media, but in politics what is believed becomes a reality. Some she brought on herself.

In Obama's case, he's just too inexperienced at a time when the last thing our country needs is a neophyte in the White House. The main reason he's done so well is because people are so disgusted with the Bush presidency that they were easily won over by the voice that best preached "change." The problem with that is that as time goes on, his candidacy becomes tougher as the novelty of his candidacy wears off and people start looking closer at the man and the challenges we would be asking him to face. He has very little to back up his words. I'm afraid the Democrats chose poorly at a time when they should have been focused on choosing the strongest candidate, probably Joe Biden. Any Democrat would bring change to Washington, but only if they can get elected.

[Moochy]

113. Seeker30 Admits Defeat!

Could not have happened to a nastier Clintonoid.

[madrchsod]

115. be sure and post this at taylor marsh or hillary is 44

they love this "he can`t win because he is black" shit....

[stevietheman]

118. Obama is the nominee. Get used to it. n/t

n/t