So, I just watched "Primary Colors."

[VolcanoJen]

It was on HBO, and I hadn't seen it in years, and when I did watch it before, I blew it off as partisan Joe Klein garbage. I think it came out in 1998 or so? The film is ten years old, the book is slightly older.

Watching it this time was like a revelation. I couldn't stop watching. It was eery, it was heartbreaking, and it was, dare I say it, a little prescient.

The strangest part of all... watching who I imagine was the character based on George Stephanopolous having a conversation with Bill Clinton (John Travolta) at the end of the film. It's after the Kathy Bates character commits suicide over her unwillingness to horribly smear their primary opponent. The Stephanopolous character tells the Clinton character he's going to resign from the campaign, and as the Clinton character is trying to convince him that this is just politics and he should stay, the young character asks him something along the lines of, "But, is this really how this business, politics, is?"

Clinton's character responds, "That's like asking me how many angels can dance on the head of a pin." Moments later, he's inaugurated.

Flame away, but it was freaking creepy, and everyone here knows why. I can't possibly be the first person who noticed this, but it bugged me. Just really disturbed me.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

1. oy

[VolcanoJen]

2. Look, the book, and the movie, were fiction.

Fiction.

But that line? Creepy.

[bigtree]

3. all of this love for Clinton-haters falls from the support of Obama, apparently

inspiring.

Klein is a tool.

[VolcanoJen]

5. No kidding.

Yes, no duh, Klein is a tool. Really thought you knew me better than to be "loving" a "Clinton hater."

:shrug:

But do you really think that quote is something common? When I heard her say it, it was the first time I ever heard it. I don't even freaking understand it.

I guess it's something she and Bill have been saying for years.

[sandnsea]

9. It's kind of common

It's used like, "well you may as well argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin", as in there's no real answer to the question, morality issues are difficult, bla bla. Which should not be the answer to a question about money and Columbia.

[Hoof Hearted]

10. Look it up, you'll have to go back a lot further than the Clintons

If you are "concerned" about the origin and/or use of that quote.


What a fuckin' disgrace this place has become.

[VolcanoJen]

12. If you're calling me a disgrace because I highlighted a quote in a movie...

... you can go suck eggs. Seriously.

Are the Queen's supporters really all as sensitive as you are? All the good work so many of us have done in the last seven years here, and it's a "fuckin' disgrace" because I dared to critique Hillary. Good Gawd.

[Eric Condon]

20. No, they're just calling you a disgrace because you implied that Zellary is in any way fallible. nt

[VolcanoJen]

21. Oh.

Well, that makes sense, then.

:-)

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

13. Your faux outrage pretty much makes your point...

[RaleighNCDUer]

17. The point is, did Hillary really never see that movie, which has

been long considered a comment on the Clintons? If somebody who was in the know wrote a book which became a movie about you, wouldn't you see it just so you would be able to counter any hits that developed from it?

And if so, WHY would you use a phrase like that, which was in the movie? Life imitating art imitating life? She didn't realize it was NOT a favorable comment on them?

Has she NO political instincts at all?

[TheDoorbellRang]

16. I was familiar with the expression from my Catholic upbringing

I used to know who said it -- maybe Aquinas? It was said to be one of those type of things medieval theologians used to ponder. It just means, you can ask the question, but no one knows the answer and what does it matter anyway.

[VolcanoJen]

18. Thank you.

It seems like an odd thing to say, to me. Kind of like a cop-out. It was odd in the context of the movie, and it was odd in the context of Hillary's non-answer in that press conference a week or so ago, too.

Guess it's the kind of answer you keep in your pocket for when you don't have an answer.

[TheDoorbellRang]

25. It was a cop out. Showed she can't answer the tough questions

Maybe Obama should answer her snide remarks about tough questions in debates with, "Oh! *HeHeHe* How many angels can dance on the head of a pin!" }(

[TahitiNut]

26. Both in the movie and the interview, use of that metaphor was bizarre, to say the least.

That allusion is typically employed in an imbecilic attempt to demean intellectualism and scholasticism. It's akin to monkeys throwing feces at the Pieta. Most often, folks uttering it are incapable of distinguishing a fallacy from a turnpike.

[VolcanoJen]

28. "a fallacy from a turnpike"

Nice one, Nut. :-)

Yes, it struck me as so bizarre in the film, and coming right at the end, close to the very last line, it just made me sit straight up and say "what in the fuck?"

Speaking of which, why hasn't anyone in our illustrious and most awesome media followed up on Clinton's use of that phrase as an "answer" to a question she had no intention of answering, ever?

[bigbrother05]

4. art imitating life, or life imitating art

[sandnsea]

6. oh my

yes that is eery. And it's also annoying that her comment got no media attention.

I saw the movie was on but decided I didn't even want pretend Clintons in my house right now.

[VolcanoJen]

7. Can't blame you.

Although to be honest I couldn't really tell the difference.

[graycem]

8. The movie/book clearly took some lines

from the Clinton campaign in the 90's. There are several other quotes from the movie that I've heard Bill say on YouTube clips that Hillary has said this time around. I guess a lot of these quotes sound good to them so they get recycled. I'm sure they all do it.


The scene from the donut shop, where he says something along the lines of "the hits you're taking are nothing compared to the hits the american people are taking..." is another example. Bill C. used this in his campaign, I think even Edwards did, and Hillary has too.

[FrenchieCat]

11. Yep. Sounds creepy, and eery.

Wonder if they have that movie as a free "on Demand" film. Think I'll look for it. I didn't pay any attention to it the first time it came out.

[VolcanoJen]

14. There are a lot of aspects to the Clintons...

... that I didn't pay much attention to the first time around.

Eyes wide open, now. And although it wasn't a great movie, it was damned interesting in context now.

[Ichingcarpenter]

15. 'That's like asking me how many angels can dance on the head of a pin."

Instead, when asked by a reporter if there might be a conflict of interest for her husband accepting $800,000 for speaking on behalf of a trade deal that Clinton has publicly opposed, Clinton throws her arms in the air, ****aws, and says "and how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/pol...aughs.off.pool

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

19. chilling n/t

[madfloridian]

22. Is Burton the Stephanopolous character? If so...

why did Klein choose to make him African American. To throw people off figuring it out?

[VolcanoJen]

23. Joke Line is very clever, isn't he?

Ha!

Yeah, I was wondering while watching the movie, too.

What I'm really wondering is... who was Kathy Bates supposed to be? All I'm coming up with is "composite character." :-)

[Alexander]

24. I thought Kathy Bates was supposed to be Vince Foster.

[madfloridian]

27. Well, we know Billy Bob Thornton was Carville....

Remember the scene about the wrinkled....never mind. Involved a zipper.

I wonder if that was true or meant to by typical

[invictus]

29. That quote shows how callous the Clintons are. n/t

[DevonRex]

30. Wow. I didn't remember that line in the movie until you

mentioned it. And yep, it is freaking creepy.

[Toucano]

31. How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

wikipedia article:

"The question how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? is an example of an ontological argument. It has also been at times used as a trite dismissal: of medieval angelology in particular, of scholasticism in general, and of particular figures such as Duns Scotus and Thomas Aquinas.<1>"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_many_angels_can_stand_on_the_head_of_a_pin%3F

It's not really that uncommon, though I certainly don't hear it everyday.