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Familiarity breeds contempt: Obama's image is unraveling at a terrifying pace (down 24% in 10 months

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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:25 AM
Original message
Familiarity breeds contempt: Obama's image is unraveling at a terrifying pace (down 24% in 10 months
This is why I never bought the Obama hype. If the election were held in February or March I would have supported Obama because he was the stronger candidate then. However, as those of us who know political history know, the "new" candidate is always much stronger at the beginning when he is unknown. Then folks learn they have a wart here, a wart there. Gradually that candidate becomes less popular. Candidates who once had broad, if vague, appeal no longer become destined landslide winners (see Dukakis, Bush 2000, and Kerry) but suddenly find themselves fading fast. Is this because something is wrong with them? Of course not. There simply is not enough information upon which to dislike a politician when they first arrive on the scene. This is especially true for a presidential candidate with no record (Obama) or no national profile before running for president (Bush, Dukakis). Here is the fucking bottom line: It is a fairy tale to believe that Obama circa April 2008 will be stronger than Obama circa November 2008. The trend says it all.

Obama's favorables

Current: 53/40
4/16/08: 57/36
3/5/08: 61/28
7/07: 56/19
5/06: 34/10

Let's compare that to two much better known candidates.

Clinton's favorables

Current: 47/49
4/16/08: 49/47
3/5/08: 56/40
7/07: 55/38
5/06: 51/45

McSame's favorables

Current: 51/41
4/16/08: 52/42
3/5/08: 55/35

http://www.newsweek.com/id/134254

All three have been declining as they get more scrutiny, more vetting, and get attacked more. Still notice the relative stability. Clinton's unfavorable rating now is only 4% higher than it was two years ago. McSame's is only 6% higher. Obama's is a whopping 21% higher than it was just one year ago and 30% higher than two years ago. Obama has fucking lost a net 8% in one week. One week. The rethug machine has not even fully went after him yet, although they are cranking up and sending some salvos out now. During the same week Clinton lost 4%. McSame lost 1% in favorability but he also lost 1% in unfavorability.

2004 for historical context

Let's look at 2004 and to get a reliable gauge use Newsweek's polling. I will use the poll taken closest to this time in 2004 (4/8-4/9) and then compare that to the last Newsweek poll.

April 2004: Kerry 50%, Bush 43%
October (week before the election): Bush 51%, Kerry 45%

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/bush_vs_kerry_hth.html

Here is another revealing tidbit from 2004 from Pew that shows how the definition of "new" candidates changes as they get vetted as well as attacked. Look at what happened in just three months.



While Kerry was perceived almost completely favorably in February that dramatically changed after the rethug machine went after him.

Compare that to the relative stability for the incumbent.



Graph of 2004 polling



Notice that sharp decline for Kerry in April? That is when the RNC began running ads against him that featured the now famous "I voted for it before I voted against it" quote. ("god damn America" could be Obama's "I voted for it" killer sound bite. Obama didn't say it but notice the ad references Obama sitting in the pews for 20 years? Do you think they reached and pulled the 20 years in the pews line out of their behind? Hell no. They surely did focus groups and that was probably the thing that disturbed folks the most about Obama and his relationship with Wright.).

The graph is well-timed. The beginning of March was when Kerry clinched the nomination. He started out tied with Bush in the polls, 44.5 to 44.5. He lost by 3. He ran against an incumbent, though. Elections with incumbents are always referendums on the incumbent. The final margin reflected an increase for Bush not so much a decline for Kerry. What is important for us is to note the ups and downs. As noted previously, the first sharp decline for Kerry came when the RNC began running negative ads against him. He then recovered and reached his zenith in July and August. What happened in July? He got a bounce from the positive publicity he got from choosing a VP and then from the Democratic convention. He then tanked in the middle of August. Does anyone remember what our friends who were are going to build a post-partisan utopia with did then? Yes. That is when the infamous swiftboating happened. Kerry went from 48%--the highest he would ever poll (he wound up with 48% but that is when undecideds were forced to choose. He never reached 48% in polling with undecideds except for in July and August)--and a narrow two point lead over Bush to 42-43% and trailing Bush by 7%. He then made a final push as Bush's popularly fell again.

This was John fucking Kerry. John Vietnam movement Kerry. John I was elected to the senate two decades ago Kerry. John did you hear I was a war hero Kerry. Barack Obama is someone no one knew four years ago and no one paid attention to outside the doting MSM and political class until the end of 2006. Obama is the must vulnerable to being attacked of any nominee, if he wins, perhaps ever (usually you must achieve something to reach the national prominence running for president necessities). He certainly is more vulnerable than any candidate in the past half century. The reason is no one knows who he is. He can be defined far more easily in the negative than past candidates who had some record, some image. Even the governors who ran, while unknown outside of their states, had a record they could point to as something that would give folks concrete ideas of what they believe. What is Obama going to point to? I speech with no substance in 2004 and a speech in 2002 that no two people can recall the same way and there is no record of?



http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=213



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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks to your lies and Hillary's. It's all about the Clintons. Who cares about anyone else.
Now I know why they are so hated.

You are helping me to hate them too.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Go to bed.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #2
65. Best.Response.Ever.
:spray:

Love it. :thumbsup:
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Obamites must blame the Clintons when it rains
This is what happens to every "new" candidate as they get better known. Can any Obamite name the last candidate running against a non-incumbent who emerged stronger at the end of the election year than he began it? This is what happens to presidential candidates in campaigns. Only those who believe in fairy tales thought Obama would be immune from this. Did you think he would be coronated without elections being held and any resistance?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
36. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
86. hi, baghdad bobbykins.
I don't blame hillypoo or hilldroid assholes. I will point out for the terminally stupid, that his favorables are still better than hers, little genius.

Now go to freeperville or stormfront where you'll be with your ilk.
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:33 AM
Original message
Just more ad hominem attacks by the Obamaflock.
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 12:34 AM by NJSecularist
Why can't they ever address the subject matter?
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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
15. For the same reason Obama can't
It was easier for him to call Hillary "Annie Oakley" than address the real issue which was he can't close the deal with working class voters.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
26. Many of them act like programmed robots
The only humans who behave this way are those who are members of ____...
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #26
40. LIAR
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #40
91. Obama fans use that meme when they have nothing else to offer. Sad.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
41. You seem familiar...like somebody else I know
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
52. So which HRC fan are you really?
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 12:59 AM by hnmnf
Piehole? P2BA?
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #52
62. P2BA?
I liked P2BA but you can't compare the quality of NJSecularist's posting to that of P2BA. Piehole, from what I can glean, has no desire to return to DU. Besides, he has been banned.
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SwampG8r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
63. ill address it
its a pack of lies from the queen liar herself
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
3. Clinton's unfavorables are still higher!
And nobody knew anything about Obama two years ago; of course his unfavorables were low and now higher. Familiarity breeds contempt. Hillary doesn't need increased familiarity to breed contempt, apparently.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. The post zoomed straight past you
Look at the tend line. Who will have higher unfavorables in November?
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Hillary's unfavorables have stayed the same for years.
Obama's are rising by the day, and the Rethug machine hasn't even started with him yet. Where will his unfavorables be in October?
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Probably whoever wins the nomination will have higher unfavorables.
This because there won't be anybody polling for the other candidate's unfavorables anymore (hello). You are trying to get people to look at these trends out of the context of things like the fact that people didn't know much about Obama.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Hillary's unfavorables have been about the same for a long time
The question is whether Obama will surpass 49%. Do you believe his unfavorables will freeze in their current state? You do realize what is coming to a campaign near you if he wins the nomination, right?
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #14
43. LIAR
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #14
45. What, exactly, is "coming to" Obama that hasn't already been brought up?
We've been through the following bullshit non-issues:

1. Rezko
2. Wright
3. Ayers
4. Hamas
5. Farrakhan
6. Voting "present" 100 or so times in office (out of 15,000 votes cast)

None of which stuck to him during the primary process. In fact, he came ahead in the pledged delegate count, money, and polls quite nicely despite all these "scandals".

Despite all these things which were supposed to bring him down, Obama survived.

What could be brought up in the general election that hasn't been mentioned already?
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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #45
84. Do some research
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
20. not Hillary, she will be back home nursing her wounds then
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #5
42. LIAR
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virtualobserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
6. your data proves that Hillary is damaging the nominee and that her high unfavorables make her...
unelectible. so what's your point?
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Hillary's unfavorables have stayed the same since she started running.
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 12:37 AM by NJSecularist
Her public image is stable. Everybody knows who she is. She'll be the same person in November as she is now who will win Ohio and Pennsylvania in the general election. Meanwhile, Obama hasn't even been vetted yet by the Rethugs and his unfavorablity ratings are already tanking. It's a bad sign for us in the general election. He'll be lucky to win New Jersey at the pace his unfavorability rankings are tanking.
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virtualobserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. get back with me when his unfavorables are higher than hers
then you and Hillary can pat yourselves on the back for a job well done.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. They completely ignore the trend
Her unfavorables are 4 points higher than two years ago. Obama is already tanking before the real attacks have come.
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virtualobserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. after he defeats hillary, he will turn his full energy on McCain
he's been going easy on Hillary
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. That cuts both ways. Guess who is more vulnerable to attacks?
Candidate A: Has been a senator for two decades, ran for president nearly a decade ago, played a big role in the 2004 election

Candidate B: unknown nationally until a little more than a year ago
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virtualobserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #28
37. the attacks will always be there, ..........Obama is doing just fine
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #37
57. Your unfavorable rating going from 19% to 40% in 10 months is not "doing just fine"
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 12:59 AM by jackson_dem
Obama has a glass jaw. Each time he gets attacked his poll numbers drop. Hillary should go negative as hell on him in Indiana given this. In contrast, when Obama has gone negative on her it hasn't moved the needle since the primaries began. People's minds are made up about her so his attacks don't convert anyone.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #57
59. LIAR
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virtualobserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #57
61. 40 is fine for a national politician. 19 meant that no-one had heard of him
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #61
78. 40% in April when you are gaining 12% in 6 weeks is not fine
You can see where the trajectory is going and we don't know where it will stop.
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #57
75. Why don't you skip on down to response #32, ace?
And read what an intelligent DUer has to say in rebuttal?

Or do you prefer just blowing smoke?

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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #28
48. LIAR
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #16
44. LIAR
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SwampG8r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #16
66. the real attacks?
so hillary is just being a good sparring partner?
if there was anything to use against him SHE would have used it on the day after super tuesday
keep hanging on to your dreams
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #6
17. bingo! And speaking of familiarity and contempt...
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 01:30 AM by Triana
...jackson_dem, how many seconds do you allow between your Obama-bashing posts? How many a day do you post?

You don't support him. Fine. But your posts are only serving to make YOU and Hillary look WORSE.

Furthermore, they are making it MUCH LESS LIKELY and MORE DIFFICULT for people to vote for HER if she manages to tweak the rules enough to become the nominee. YOU ARE NOT HELPING HER.

YOU are doing the same idiotic thing to her that SHE is doing to herself. Maybe you should go to work in her campaign (IF you're not already). You'd fit right in.

HERE:



NOW. Aim it at your foot and shoot. Go on. DO it! Because it's what you're doing here anyway. You ain't helping nobody, least of all yourself or HER.
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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. How is posting facts bashing Obama?
Are you advocating violence. If not, remove the rifle NOW!
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #21
34. They are in denial. Just like cult members they don't want to hear things that conflict with beliefs
Obama is headed for a gigantic iceberg and they are averting their eyes and hoping it doesn't exist. They won't be able to do this on November 4 if he is the nominee. The kicker? If he loses they will blame it on Clinton and racism. They won't be able to see the real reasons for his loss which many of us sounded the alarm about.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #34
50. LIAR
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #34
72. Ah, that old "cult" meme again.
That's my favorite! :eyes: When all else fails, and the last firewall door closes, just resort to the "cult" insult, I suppose.

Obama is leading by every possible metric, Hillary bled ten points in her last firewall, Pennsylvania, she's completely broke and hawking her website as an ATM, she's desperately demanding a 22nd "debate," but Obama supporters are "in denial" and are "cult members." It's fucking laughable.

I was going to give you a big "screw off" for that alone, but instead, I'll reserve it for this:

"They won't be able to do this on November 4... If he loses, they will blame it on Clinton and racism... They won't be able to see the real reasons for his loss."

They? They!?? And who will you be voting for on November 4th?

Screw off. At least you've indicated that you're leaving the site once Obama's the official nominee. Miss you already.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #21
77. You need to look up the definition of fact...
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 01:33 AM by Triana
...and the definition of propaganda. You seem to have the two confused.

SO DOES HILLARY, not surprisingly. I see why you support her. Birds of a feather. Pfft!
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #77
82. Fact: Obama's unfavorables have increased from 28% to 40% in less than 2 months
Fact: they were only 19% last summer.
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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #77
85. No you do
idiot!
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. Resorting to violent imagery, and telling people to shoot Hillary?
WTF?!
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GarbagemanLB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
7. and yet Hillary has still lost the nomination...
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
9. Hillary is as done for as the Phoenix Suns
All your bloviating will not change this.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. That will be your consolation on November 4?
The netroots is driven more by Clinton hate than a desire to win the general election.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. Exactly. n/t
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. Obama will kick McCain's ass, no worries.
Your 'concern' is wholly bound to your attachment to Hillary.

When she is no longer in the picture, you will see things much more clearly.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #24
38. I didn't even support Clinton three months ago
The reason I switched to her are being vindicated by the data rolling in that I posted in the OP. I predicted this when I decided to choose Clinton over Obama.

No worries? Man you are in denial...Either candidate will have a tough fight. There will be no landslide against McSame with the MSM propping him up.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #38
47. I guess you will go down swinging with Lil' Hilly then
When President Obama is sworn in,
please remember that Jackoroses told you so.
ok? ;)
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #38
54. LIAR
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #18
31. Congrats
That's simply the flat-out damnedest dumbest thing I've read all day.

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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #31
39. JeffR, one of the intellectual giants at DU renders his verdict
:thumbsup:
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #39
55. Granted my response didn't address the "substance" of your post.
But that's because your post is little more than panic wrapped in sophistry and served up on a sesame seed bun with a special sauce of pretentious superiority. You keep sellin' and ain't nobody much buyin'.

I don't have intellectual pretensions, personally. If you do, then you're really embarrassing yourself, frankly. I content myself that I'm at least smart enough to recognize stupid when I see it.

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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #39
56. LIAR
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #39
58. jackson_dem, one of the Hillarite Mental Midget Crew, strikes again
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #31
53. you haven't been reading your fellow Hillarite postings then
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #18
51. LIAR
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #18
64. It's pretty sad, isn't it?
I mean, I can understand some detractors, but this hate directed at Hillary and Bill Clinton, on a supposed progressive website, is absolutely absurd. And it's consistently like this on all the big netroots sites... Daily Kos, Huffington Post, etc.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
10. recommend
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
25. He's wasn't very well known before, so of course people may discover they don't like him.
That's only normal. I don't see your point.
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
27. Nonsense. You would never have supported Obama. You have a "problem" with him.
"They surely did focus groups"

Is that how you get all your information? Focus groups? Do you sit in front of them all the time and show them your asinine, race-baiting posts? Some focus group that must be.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
29. Unfortunate. She's still on the way to becoming the first
woman to become an afterthought in a Presidential Primary.

FAIL
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KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
30. Jackson, do you honestly think Hillary will be the Nominee?? If you do.....
then you need to get ready for disappointment.

If you think the SDs will take the nominatin away from Obama who will have a 70-120 delegate lead and is raising $40 million a month and is tied or leading Hillary in most national polls then you know NOTHING about politics!
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. Jackson's proves that with every post
everyday.

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virtualobserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #33
46. clinton staff member perhaps?
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #46
68. I was paid by Hillary Clinton to defend Edwards' record and the false charges of "phony" against him
That Clenis and his wife sure are crafty! :crazy:
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virtualobserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #68
71. I just thought that after Edwards suspended his campaign, and Mark Penn's salary was revealed
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 01:13 AM by virtualobserver
....you put an application in at Hillary central command.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #30
49. Hillary has 0 to do with Obama leading to disaster
I notice Obama supporters can never think of Obama separate from Clinton. The Obama "support" is tethered to Clinton hate.

She has a 10% shot at the nomination and that is only if she wins the popular vote. Obama's cronies are already playing the race card as a strong last line of defense against the supers and it is hard to see the supers rocking the boat for a generation and risking down ticket losses just to win the 2008 presidential election.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #49
69. He's running against while being introduced onto the national stage
It has everything to do with her and how she slimes him.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #69
79. It doesn't matter. The day she exits the attacks against Obama will actually intensify
She is the only thing standing between Obama and a full throttle assault by the rethug machine right now because many of them are not sure who will be the nominee at this point. Some have concluded Obama is the presumptive nominee now, though, and have cranked up their motors. This still isn't anything like the full scale 24/7 assault to come.
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KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #49
70. If Obama support is tied to Hillary hate then why not Edwards or...
the other 7 Democratic candidates? Why did they not start leading Hillary??

LOL....I think Obama had something to do with it.

Sounds like you have Obama Hate!

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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #70
80. I meant on the netroots
Your post proves my point regarding the netroots. The netroots slightly favored Edwards. Yet when he left the race almost all of his netroots support migrated to Obama. It wasn't split even 70/30. It was nearly unanimous. DU is now 95/5 for Obama because of this. This is not a normal result and the obvious driver of this is Clinton hate.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
32. Lying with numbers is so much fun.
On that first chart you have up, you failed to include the fact that there was yet another column of Don't Know, which for Obama declined from 10% on 3/5 to 4% current, while for Hillary it dropped from 1% to 0% for the same -- IOW, people are still learning about Obama, he has higher positives and lower negatives than Hillary, and attitudes for Hillary are hardened so any shift in her numbers is coming from a solid base, while shifts in Obama's numbers are generated from the 'Don't Know'. That means, when she drops in numbers, it hurts her - if he does, there is a cushion.

That's why he is winning.

Absolutely disingenuous.

Of course, as you like to play with numbers, you know that, because you can't manipulate numbers without knowing what they mean.

Piss off.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. ^^^^^TRUTH******
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #32
60. I love people trying to use statistics to justify their losses.
It amuses me to watch folks try, repeatedly, to take hard math and spin it.

Maybe this is why so many americans have poor math educations? They believe that spinning numbers changes things?
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #32
73. No offense, but that is pretty obvious to anyone who ever looks at poll results.
If the numbers add up to 100, the remaining don't know. I guess he was assuming you knew that.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #73
76. He was touting low unfavorables from when people didn't know Obama
and comparing them to higer ones as people did get to know him - never mind that the favorables were also moving from low to high, and were in fact higher than his unfavorables and higer than Hillary's favorables.

It's a bullshit play, and he knows it.

The numbers refuse to work for him, so he depends on spin.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
67. trend?!??? ok, so at this rate, obama will have 60% favorable and 60% unfavorable by election day??
congratulations, you've proved that not many people knew obama 2 years ago.

and your point is ....?
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #67
81. Ever look at a graph?
A graph of his trend would show both lines rising as he became nationally known. That happens to all candidates when voters learn about them. Since then the graph would show his favorable rating declining and his unfavorables rising.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #81
90. so time is all about learning about the candidate?
and it has nothing to do with shifting advertising strategies and negative campaigning and rifts within the democratic party and media coverage or anything rotten and destructive that the other candidate might be doing? it's all just getting to know the candidate?

and hillary is so well known, that no media coverage could possibly bring her down?

seeing as i get paid to interpret data where a ton of money is at stake, i would say yes, i know damn well how to read a graph. i also know damn well which data to bank your money on, and the trend you're trying to find from those numbers ain't worth a hill of beans.
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candice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
74. Never fell for such an empty suit in the first place. The media pushed Bu$h...
...and trashed Gore and Kerry. There is something about these weak resume, pumped-up ad campaign candidates--especially if they say that they claim to be "uniters, not dividers" that makes me run away fast. At first, I didn't even know this was Axelrod's rerun of the hope/change/take a chance on your own aspirations campaign that he ran for Deval Patrick.

The Democratic has never been so divided as it has when this man with father issues got in the picture.

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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #74
83. If Obama can't unite his own party how can he unite the country?
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Freedom Train Donating Member (479 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 05:44 AM
Response to Original message
87. You'll get recommendation #10 from me
This is not the time to let emotions run adrift. Only the cold hard numbers matter. What should have been a cakewalk for us has now dwindled down to a mere 50/50 chance at getting back the White House. I'm no big fan of Hillary's (although the 90's sure were good compared to this), but it is clear she is the one who is more electable with the general electorate. I'm past even caring about either candidate now, I just want whomever is the most electable, because if we don't take back the presidency we have NOTHING. When the figures say Hillary has the better shot, then that's whom I'll go with - and I'll hope the supers will feel the same way. (Unless they'd throw it to Gore in the second round, but that seems like nothing but a pipe dream now).
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mikekohr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 05:48 AM
Response to Original message
88. Senator Obama's "Favorable" Rating is 13% HIGHER than his "Negative,"

Senator Clinton's "favorable," rating is 2% LOWER than her "negative." By comparison, if his favorable is "tanking," as you say, what pejorative would you use to describe Senator Clinton's standing?


Senator Obama: -highest favorable/lowest negative = Most Favorable Candidate****
Senator McSurge: -2nd highest favorable/2nd lowest negative = 2nd most favorable candidate
Senator Clinton: -lowest favorable/highest negatives = 3rd most favorable candidate



mike kohr
-Victory in '08-

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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:07 AM
Response to Original message
89. We should stop this. A candidate's "negatives" are just the right-wing smear machine doing its work.
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 06:09 AM by Perry Logan
In my view, a candidate's "negatives" tell us nothing about the candidate. As many posters have already said, any Democratic candidate will automatically have high negatives.

In using "negatives" to bash our candidates, you are helping the Right get more mileage from its original smears. This is not brilliant tactics on our part.
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