Dean Warned on Lax security in Vermont

[bhunt70]

Presidential hopeful Howard Dean (news - web sites), who accuses President Bush (news - web sites) of being weak on homeland security, was warned repeatedly as Vermont governor about security lapses at his state's nuclear power plant and was told the state was ill-prepared for a disaster at its most attractive terrorist target.

The warnings, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press, began in 1991 when a group of students were brought into a secure area of the Vermont Yankee nuclear plant without proper screening. On at least two occasions, a gun or mock terrorists passed undetected into the plant during security tests.


During Dean's final year in office in 2002, an audit concluded that despite a decade of repeated warnings of poor safety at Vermont Yankee, Dean's administration was poorly prepared for a nuclear disaster.

"The lack of funding and overarching coordination at the state level directly impacts the ability of the state, local and power plant planners to be adequately prepared for a real emergency at Vermont Yankee," state Auditor Elizabeth M. Ready wrote in a study issued five months after the Sept. 11 attacks.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&e=4&u=/ap/20040103/ap_on_el_pr/dean_terror

It does go on to say that Dean fixed a number of things wrong, but didn't fully fund the process.


edit-format

[MarkTwain]

1. One of the Worst Comments....

... is the following :

Security was so lax at Vermont Yankee that in August 2001, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission staged a drill in which three mock terrorists gained access to the plant. The agency gave Vermont Yankee the worst security rating among the nation's 103 reactors.

Moreover, this was after years of a Dean Administration and the last year in which he was in office.

It will be very interesting to see what the "good" Doctor and his campaign have to say about this. And then refine about that declaration. And then restate about the refinement.

Yet but another travel case added to the baggage which Doctor Dean brings to this campaign and which will be used, with delight, by Karl and the Cabal to ensure fifty more years of control of the Republic through the SCOTUS appointments which The Idiot will make during any second terms ensured by the nomination of The Physician from The Vermont Yankee.

[Dookus]

3. agreed.

This is one of the most substantial, specific attacks against Dean they'll use. Vermont having the worst security rating in the country is something we'll be hearing for a long time.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

60. the only glee

you can find in that post is what you're putting there yourself. I made a simple factual statement..

Of course I'm not a subscriber to GOPTeamLeader... I'm a hardcore liberal democrat. Insinuating otherwise is simply childish.

[TLM]

76. No they won't...do you seriously think that Bush wants to open that can?

And attack Dean for his state not being ready for terrorist attack... when Bush is the one who has not funded the programs for first responders AND Gov Bush in texas was the one who lies about the Sierra Blanca site safety and as a result the nuclear waste storage and security issues were prolonged?

That would open the door for Dean to lay into Bush on real domestic security needs.

[eileen_d]

112. Of course the GOP will attack Dean on this!

I may not think Bush has any credibility on national security, but Bush and his cronies think they own the issue and are going to act accordingly. If you think Bush is *scared* of bringing this issue up with Dean... there is no fitting end to that sentence. I'm stumped.

I'm not saying Dean can't credibly fight back on the issue, using some of the points you suggested, because I'm sure he can. But this article is going to be waved around like an American flag in the face of every Democrat in 2004. It's not my fault, but please do not deny this simple fact.

[Dookus]

113. Since the article

discusses lapses between 1991 and August of 2001, can you explain how Dean will make the case that the Governor of Texas was responsible for funding safety programs at a Vermont power plant?

[farmbo]

2. "The NRC has primary responsibility for safety at Vermont Yankee"

This is what the article actually states. Safety at Vermont Yankee is an NRC (Nuclear Regulatory Comm.) problem...and Vermont Yankee received the low safety rating in August 2001...under the administration of...hummm...let's see...could it be...

Bush!?

This is the latest David Gram Dean bashing story out of Vermont. The poor guy must have felt himself snubbed at a cocktail party and is now obsessed with portraying Dean as the Spawn of Satan. That way, the AP will actually run his third rate stories.

[Dookus]

4. Sorry...

but saying "It's not my problem" is not going to help Dean very much in this issue. Also, Bush had been President for 7 months before the report was issued, and Dean had been Governor for a decade.

Yes, the NRC had PRIMARY responsibility. It doesn't absolve state officials.

[Brian_Expat]

8. Well, you know, Vermont was such a TEMPTING target

:eyes:

In the following month, New York City and the Pentagon, two much more tempting and well-guarded targets, were attacked under the stewardship of the Bush administration.

Now the Bushies are arguing that Dean was "weak on security" prior to the 9/11 attacks when Bush's own security was insufficient.

So which is it, Bushies and Democrats who are using Karl Rove lines to tear down Dean -- did the world "change" on 9/11 as Bush claims, or was inadequate security that hit the whole country only a problem when it was in Vermont at a federally-regulated facility?

I find it extremely pathetic that Democrats are quoting Republican talking points to boost their own candidate.

[Dookus]

10. And....

I find it extremely pathetic that a story from the Associated Press is rejected as a "Republican talking point".

And yes.... ANY nuclear facility is a tempting target. To have the worst security record out of 103 plants *IS* something that will be brought up during the campaign.

Any thinking person should be able to see that.

[Brian_Expat]

12. It's a Republican talking point

None of the nuclear facilities in ANY state were "well guarded" prior to 9/11 and YOU KNOW THAT. So do the Republicans. That won't stop you (or them) from talking up that point to the utmost in the pursuit of power.

[Dookus]

15. again...

calling an AP story a republican talking point is ostrich-like behavior. The story reports that after 10 years as Governor, and plenty of warnings, this plant had the WORST security record out of 103 American plants.

Dismiss that fact at your own peril. It will not go away, no matter how much you wish it to.

[Brian_Expat]

21. The story reports Republican talking points

The plant's security was a federal concern, primarily.

As the anti-Dean people keep reminding us, the state of Vermont is tiny. Yet at the same time, it's supposed to be able to come up with as many full-time people to defend against a threat as Massachusetts or Pennsylvania, states with 10 and 20 times as many people, respectively, because the federal government isn't doing its job defending the plants?

Why aren't you guys hitting BUSH for the lapses in security that led to actual human casualties at the PENTAGON and the WTC, despite "repeated warnings" from the Clinton administration, CIA and intelligence agencies all around the world?

I know why. It's because the security of the VT Yankee station is not your real concern. You're more concerned about repeating GOP talking points to bring down Dean. Very sad.

[Dookus]

28. You should understand

that repetition doesn't make something true.

It's an AP news story. What republican talking point have I expressed? NONE! ZERO!

You should knock it off, because it's just insulting.

I'm not attacking here. I'm pointing out that this story will NOT go away in a day or two, no matter how much you want it to.

And changing the subject to 9/11 doesn't change a damned thing.

[Brian_Expat]

34. You're attacking Dean. . .

. . . for "lax" security at a federally-guarded facility in Vermont prior to 9/11, but not attacking Bush for actual successful attacks on federally-guarded higher-security facilities on 9/11.

changing the subject to 9/11

No, that's precisely what YOU are doing -- tying this to the 9/11 thing that Bush wants to run on, along with the GOP-coined language about "homeland security."

[Dookus]

37. try to calm down

and read what I'm writing.

[Brian_Expat]

41. Oh, I'm reading it

It's why I'm holding my nose. :evilgrin:

[Dookus]

42. Then you're not

comprehending.

I am not bashing Dean. I'm talking merely about how this story will affect him. Saying "it wasn't my problem" is NOT going to be an adequate defense. Stop attacking the messenger.

[Brian_Expat]

46. Poor messenger. . .

Just throwing up a FOX News Alert to inform us. . . :cry:

[Dookus]

52. sigh...

first, you don't need to be so insulting. I am NOT against Dean.

Second, I didn't mention Fox or anybody else. I've referred to nothing but the AP article posted here. YOU can call it a republican talking point, but it simply isn't.

Third... well I'm not allowed to say it.

[bearfartinthewoods]

72. vermont is too small to protect it's nuke plants.

you might want to rethink that, as a talking point.

[TLM]

79. Most states are too small to protect their nuke plants...

that is why the NRC is a federal level commission.

[bearfartinthewoods]

69. I find it extremely pathetic that some dems cannot understand

that a candidate's vulnerability to talking points should be a primary consideration in choosing a candidate.

[TLM]

78. I find it extremely pathetic that some dems cannot understand

why it is incredibly dishonest to attack Dean one day for doing things like supporting the securing of nuclear waste in Yucca Mt. then to turn around the next day and attack Dean for not doing enough to secure Vermont’s nuclear waste from attacks.


Did Dean control the NRC budget?


"The lack of preparedness was blamed in the 2002 audit on inadequate funds. "Vermont receives the least amount of funding for its Radiological Emergency Response Plan, in total dollars, of any New England state that hosts a nuclear power plant," the audit disclosed. "

[bearfartinthewoods]

94. did i attack dean on yucca mountain?

i remember saying he supported shipping NH nuke waste there to someone who felt the area was not happy with bush. i think that was one of the first dean uh-ohs that was ever posted at DU. but i hardly think that's an attack?

oh...yeah..i forgot, we're discussing dean and the rules are different for dean. (note: not a reference DU rules here. speaking about the rules of politics and common sense.)

i'll tell ya one thing...the list of issues that we had in our sack to use against bush keeps getting smaller and smaller and smaller if dean is the nominee.

and i DON"T think "i'm really mad at bush" is going to be enough for our candidate to win.

[farmbo]

11. Sorry back...

Its a matter of federal pre-emption. Federal Govt Service employees provide the security.

http://www.nrc.gov/what-we-do/safeguards.html

Spin it if you must...but do not leave Bush off the hook.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

19. And that's patently untrue

and is probably against the rules here.

I support Clark because I believe he's much more to the left than Dean. I believe DEAN agrees with Bush much more than Clark does.

You don't have to agree. I don't expect you to. But you don't do your cause or your candidate any good by presenting your conjecture about other people's motives as fact.

You couldn't be more wrong on this issue.

[Brian_Expat]

23. I don't think it's untrue at all

And you'd be outraged if security breach concerns prior to 9/11 leaked abotu NATO facilities in Europe were attributed to Wesley Clark. Plain and simple.

This is not a legit concern on security -- it's an effort to tar Dean for the benefit of another candidate. Using Republican talking points on "homeland security" -- a GOP-invented term.

[Dookus]

29. OK...

have it your way. This story will fade away tomorrow, never to be heard from again.

:eyes:

[Brian_Expat]

32. "This story will fade away"

If only the Clark campaign seized on real stories about Bush the way they seize on talked-up stories about Dean.

[Dookus]

35. Your knee-jerk

reaction seems to be blinding you to what I'm typing. Forget the Clark icon next to my name. It has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm saying.

The Clark campaign didn't make up this story. The Clark campaign, as far as I know, hasn't said diddly about this story.

I'm posting on my own - I am NOT the Clark campaign.

If you calm down and read what I'm saying, my point is that THIS is an issue that WILL be seized upon as the campaign goes forward, and it's not particularly flattering to Dean. You don't have to like it, but attacking ME or Clark for the story is just ridiculous.

[Brian_Expat]

40. "Knee jerk"

Knee-jerk is quoting every negative story on some other candidate, without investigating the background of the source (like the Republican "auditor"), or recognizing the fact that this story has been a GOP talking point on "GOPTeamLeader.com" for weeks before the AP story.

Further, knee-jerk is insisting that every negative story out there represents a "death blow" for one's opposing candidate, whilst every unflattering story on his own candidate is "no big deal." If the Dean campaign seized on every story about Clark that is as unflattering, you'd be screaming for high heaven (and multiple post deletions).

If your sole fear is running a candidate the Republicans will smear or say something negative about, you'd better pick someone other than Clark (or Dean, or anyone else). The Republicans will smear every Democrat the same way, and for every "story" like this one (where a Republican "auditor" smears a Democratic candidate), there will be one used against your candidate too.

[dodgerartful]

135. Clark to the left?

what? Did I miss something?

[Dookus]

137. I'd explain it, but I see you posted

a goodbye thread in the lounge so you won't be around for the reply. Good luck!

[Dookus]

17. wait...

If you want to push this back on a President, it won't be Bush. He was in office for 7 months when this report came out. The security concerns went back YEARS.

I'm not leaving anybody off the hook. I'm not even particularly exercised about the article itself. I'm pointing out that this strikes me as a big issue that we'll be hearing a lot more about throughout the campaign. You're free to disagree, but I really don't think this is going away tomorrow.

[farmbo]

57. Students on a field trip visiting a secure area is not a "Big Issue"

Three planes slamming into buildings on 9/11 is a Big Issue.

This story is artificially spun to embarrass Dean even though security was and is managed at Vermont Yankee by Government Service employees.

[Duder]

13. Does it absolve almost half the nation's plants?

'The goal of the NRC’s Operational Safeguards Response Evaluation (OSRE) over the past few years has been to assess the ability of nuclear plant security to repel armed terrorists. But at 47% of the plants tested, mock intruders were able to reach vital targets inside the plant and simulate destruction of enough equipment TO CAUSE A REACTOR MELTDOWN with a potentially devastating release of radiation.'

http://www.ncwarn.org/media/past%20nc%20warn%20nr/nr-05-09-01securityfails.htm

[blm]

5. Does that axplain why the fire fighters in Vermont were angry with Dean?

Dean snubbed them and refused to lift a finger for the legislation they needed and never would meet with them even after 9-11 because of his petty feelings against them. THAT is NOT putting the nation's security first.

And THAT is why the Fire Fighters Union will never work for Dean during the general election.

[TLM]

82. LOL!!! Like the little engine that couldn't

but just keeps chugging along with one baseless desperate attack after another trying so hard to slow Dean down.


DEAN HATES FIREFIGHTERS!


What's next... Dean caught at a kitten stomping party?

[blm]

88. I didn't say Dean hates fire fighters. But, they do have bad blood

between them based on legislation that Dean would not help them with and the fact that Dean refused to meet with them even after 9-11 to coordinate for security measures.

[MarkTwain]

6. Follow the money...

"The lack of funding and overarching coordination at the state level directly impacts the ability of the state, local and power plant planners to be adequately prepared for a real emergency at Vermont Yankee," state Auditor Elizabeth M. Ready wrote in a study issued five months after the Sept. 11 attacks."


Further, relatitve to any Dean candidacy and potential charges of hypocrisy :

"The documents contrast with Dean's position as a presidential candidate who has portrayed himself as more concerned about nuclear security than Bush.

"Our most important challenge will be to address the most dangerous threat of all: catastrophic terrorism using weapons of mass destruction," Dean said in his speech in Los Angeles last month. "Here, where the stakes are highest, the current administration has, remarkably, done the least."

- SNIP -

Environmental groups sent Dean repeated letters about the plant's security and safety. During a 1998 federal security test, mock terrorists sneaked a fake gun past security and six times scaled, undetected, the plant's security perimeter fence.

- SNIP -

Ready's audit in 2002 questioned why, with so many warnings about safety, Dean's administration had significantly fewer people committed to nuclear emergency planning than neighboring states.


Not a Pretty Picture. Except to those wearing those Rose Colored Glasses they pulled out of their trunk of memories.

[TLM]

Wow nice snips...

Dean's campaign said Saturday it ultimately was the NRC's responsibility to ensure security at the plant, but that he badgered Vermont Yankee's operators and the NRC to make improvements during the 1990s. It noted the NRC's safety budget was cut in the 1990s.



snip

Carson acknowledged there were weaknesses before 2002 in Vermont's nuclear preparedness, and Dean moved quickly afterward to place state troopers and National Guardsman at the plant, distribute radiation pills to civilians, demand a federal no-fly zone over the plant to prevent an aerial attack, and increase emergency preparedness funding.



snip

State Auditor Ready, a Democrat and Dean backer, agreed things improved after her critical 2002 report and that security tests this year showed Vermont Yankee was safer. "Once Governor Dean got that report there was swift and thorough action," she said.


snip

The lack of preparedness was blamed in the 2002 audit on inadequate funds. "Vermont receives the least amount of funding for its Radiological Emergency Response Plan, in total dollars, of any New England state that hosts a nuclear power plant," the audit disclosed.

[oasis]

20. That particular item rated "Fox news alert" status a few minutes ago.

The news anchor added her editorial comments on how Dean has been critical of Bushes failing to secure the homeland.

Many of the Fox crowd will not vote Dem anyway, but they are sure to be fed these anti-Dean tidbits which they will share with co-workers the next day.

[Brian_Expat]

43. But but but. . .

. . . it's not a GOP talking point! It's just a story! What are you Deanies all afraid of anyway? :eyes:

Next, look for stories on why Wes Clark was "unprepared for terror strikes" against NATO facilities in Europe. Of course, when those stories are quoted later, if any Dean people post them "innocuously" and say "these stories won't go away," they'll get slammed.

The politics of this campaign are SOOOOO frickin' predictable.

[KaraokeKarlton]

7. Dean is the one who warned Bush

Gotta love how these "journalists" (and I'm using that term loosely) like to get their facts backwards.

Check out these pre-election rhetoric links:

http://rutlandherald.com/hdean/34868

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0922-02.htm

[MarkTwain]

9. Yeppers... Gotta' Looove those...

... journalists, for whom the best that their Goggle search can produce are two articles which do not, at all, specifically answer the items, questions, or issues posed in the original material.

The first citation is relative to "no fly zones." Sort of like being for vanilla ice cream. Dean wrote a letter.

The second citation is one in which, again, the "good" doctor is acknowledged as having concerns, shared with with Representative Markey, specific to threats to Nuclear Plants. Again, the "good" Doctor wrote a letter.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming:

"The lack of funding and overarching coordination at the state level directly impacts the ability of the state, local and power plant planners to be adequately prepared for a real emergency at Vermont Yankee," state Auditor Elizabeth M. Ready wrote in a study issued five months after the Sept. 11 attacks."

"Ready's audit in 2002 questioned why, with so many warnings about safety, Dean's administration had significantly fewer people committed to nuclear emergency planning than neighboring states."

[Brian_Expat]

16. heh

Ready's audit in 2002 questioned why, with so many warnings about safety, Dean's administration had significantly fewer people committed to nuclear emergency planning than neighboring states.

Because Ms. Ready, a Republican, was preparing for an attack on the likely Democratic nominee.

One of the big issues in the Bush administration's "arsenal on terror" is that local governments are supposed to pick up for its lapses on security and inadequate funding for terror. How Vermont, a state with 600,000 people and a smaller budget for EVERYTHING, is supposed to have as many resources available as Massachusetts (which has almost 10 times as many people and a much larger budget) is lost on people.

Of course, the "anybody but Dean" people will hit hard on "lapses in security" in Vermont prior to 9/11, while ignoring Bush's lapses before 9/11 that allowed attacks on the Pentagon and WTC because they're more opposed to Dean policies than to Bush ones.

[Dookus]

22. the notion

that a nuclear power plant in Vermont somehow should have less security than one in Massachussetts fails on its face.

Personally, I'd prefer to shut them all down, but if we're going to have them, we need to make them secure.

[Brian_Expat]

24. The argument

That Vermont can afford to contribute the same level of resources as MA to a single thing should fall flat on its face. ESPECIALLY considering that security at all nuke plants is a federal responsibility, NOT a state one (except to pick up where the feds dropped the ball).

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Brian_Expat]

48. What are the budgets of New Hampshire and Massachusetts?

Do a little investigating and get back to us.

[MarkTwain]

53. I don't do someone else's....

...homework for them.

Nice try though.

Is your candidate going to use THAT as his argument when he has gone so far out on the limb - legitimately, btw - criticizing the current administration? Pretty Lame.

HE was governor. It was HIS people for whom he was responsible. He should have found the money, plain and simple, and not just blame the Federal Government.

Isn't that the same level of responsibility and leadership that we are all crying about vis-a-vis Resident McHappyCrack and his Cabal, huh?

Interesting that you deftly ignored Point Two, isn't it ?

Thanks for playing.

[sandnsea]

68. NH 1 plant, VT 1 plant

What difference does it make what their budgets are? The difference in number of staff is astounding. Vermont Yankee was owned by the State, it was Howard's responsibility to ensure appropriate staff and security.

[TLM]

90. Try reading the whole article...

The lack of preparedness was blamed in the 2002 audit on inadequate funds. "Vermont receives the least amount of funding for its Radiological Emergency Response Plan, in total dollars, of any New England state that hosts a nuclear power plant," the audit disclosed.

Vermont has less people than the other states, because Vermont gets way less money than they do... hrmmm less money means less resources, imagine that.

Sounds like time for a FOX news alert to bash Dean.

[TLM]

89. Actually Ready is a Dem and Dean supporter... just read what else she said

"State Auditor Ready, a Democrat and Dean backer, agreed things improved after her critical 2002 report and that security tests this year showed Vermont Yankee was safer. "Once Governor Dean got that report there was swift and thorough action," she said. "


Those attacking Dean were careful not to quote that part.

[Duder]

106. Elizabeth Ready...

is also an anti-nuclear activist.

[bhunt70]

155. Brian, maybe you should actually read the article.

You wrote" Because Ms. Ready, a Republican, was preparing for an attack on the likely Democratic nominee"

The article says...

"State Auditor Ready, a Democrat and Dean backer, agreed things improved after her critical 2002 report and that security tests this year showed Vermont Yankee was safer. "Once Governor Dean got that report there was swift and thorough action," she said."


good job champ.

[KaraokeKarlton]

18. Seeing as I actually LIVE in Vermont

I would think I'd know a bit more about this issue than some silly journalist who most likely wants to see someone else be president.

[Brian_Expat]

30. The smears get desperate don't they?

First the idea that the VT civil unions campaign was neat, orderly and court-administered -- absurd to anyone who lives there or was involved in the campaign.

Now the idea that federally-protected nuke plants are solely the responsibility of a small state, and that Dean should take lumps on that pre-9/11 vulnerability when successful attacks were executed on much better-protected facilities under the Bush administration.

So Dean is fully-blamed by the Republican talking points, but Bush gets off scott-free and is able to campaign despite the lapses in security in his own admin, and the "Democrats" spreading the Republican talking point don't call out Bush on his lapses at all.

Curiouser and curiouser. . .

[MarkTwain]

49. Brian, Please Try and Understand this....

.... just because there are many of us that elect to challenge the "good" Doctor - whom we believe is going to bring this party and the Republic, for the next fifty years, down in flames - does NOT ( I repeat, NOT ) mean that we either don't like him, wouldn't love to have him as a viable candidate (in about those same fifty years, btw)....

.. or, that we support DimSon.

By continuing to make that concurrent assumption not only proves either the paucity or lack of a counter-argument but, quite frankly, makes the one doing so look and sound just plain silly.

[TLM]

91. Proping up Fox news alerts and slectivly quoting AP pieces

to atack the dem front runner...certianly begs the question.

[KaraokeKarlton]

54. What I find hilarious is this...

One of the main reasons Dean supported the sale of Vermont Yankee was because of safety concerns. The plant wasn't safe enough and the "lax security" problem was the direct result of the fact that Nuclear Plants should be run by those who have the most experience operating them and addressing these kinds of problems. I find it both ironic and ludicrous that the same people who pitched a fit over the sale that happened in part to address the security issues are now criticizing Dean for the very security issues he fought to address through the sale of Vermont Yankee.

Some people just aren't happy unless they are bitchin'.

:eyes:

[bearfartinthewoods]

75. that makes no sense whatsoever.

ohy brother..................

[TLM]

92. Makes a lot of sense....

Selling the Yankee to an experienced energy company that had better resources than the state for securing the facility makes perfect sense. Especially when the NRC and the federal money for plant security and management are being cut.

Also Dean was working to secure Vermont's waste at a secure federal site... which is something else he's been attacked for by the same folks attacking him over this.

Looks to me like some folks will attack Dean out both side of their mouth on both sides of an issue, because they care more about attacking Dean than they do about the issues over which they are attacking him.

[bearfartinthewoods]

98. my reply was to #18 which claimed geography automatically = knowledge

[bhunt70]

156. ok.

"State Auditor Ready, a Democrat and Dean backer, agreed things improved after her critical 2002 report and that security tests this year showed Vermont Yankee was safer. "Once Governor Dean got that report there was swift and thorough action," she said."

[madfloridian]

26. Let's keep this kicked to show the desperation.

I am so tired of these threads.

A Kick for Dean
:kick:

[Brian_Expat]

31. "Dean only wrote a letter"

Joining the hundreds of other people warning the Bush administration about dangers -- who were ignored. And now Bush's incompetence is Dean's fault, but they won't call Bush on his incompetence at all.

Makes you wonder why, doesn't it?

[madfloridian]

33. Yep, and it is used against Dean in a Dem forum..Go figure!!

So sad what is happening to our party.

[Brian_Expat]

36. Some people on this forum

Spend more time attacking fellow Democrats on security than they spend attacking Bush.

Thank goodness Howard Dean is on the offensive against Bush -- the only Dem to go on full frontal attack against the Bush admin on the web (outside a campaign web site). I think his strategy is to ignore the sniping also-rans, and it may just turn out to be an effective strategy.

I do think it's sad that other campaigns have to stoop this low, and quote and promote articles that are Republican talking points for the campaign. :(

Note: Edited to change reference to specific campaign written in heat-of-the-moment outrage at this smear against Dean and Vermont.

[eileen_d]

115. So far you've been attacking more Democrats

than anyone in this thread.

It's called SHOOTING THE MESSENGER. It doesn't work.

[wyldwolf]

25. Dean: it ultimately was the federal government's responsibility

The buck stops... where?

The NRC has primary responsibility for safety at Vermont Yankee. But Vermont laws required an active state role by creating a panel to review security and performance ...

...Dean's campaign said Saturday it ultimately was the federal government's responsibility to ensure security at the plant...

Nah! Like medical malpractice, gun control, a civil unions, it is a STATE issue!

[madfloridian]

39. Show some evidence of that statement, please.

I thought that was what the Nuclear Regulatory agency or commission was supposed to do.

[wyldwolf]

50. Why not read the story that is linked in the first post?

The statement is in it.

[sandnsea]

56. Federal Agencies only approve

Looks like to me.

"The facility's emergency response plan must be discussed and agreed upon by the organization operating the power plant, by local and county emergency response officials, and by state emergency management officials. The plan is then reviewed by the NRC for adequate on-site preparedness, and by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), for adequate offsite preparedness."


http://www.nrc.gov/what-we-do/regulatory/emer-resp/emergency.html

[TLM]

95. Yeah the Nuclear REGULATORY Commission just reviews stuff...

they don't regulate anything.


I knew the attacks on Dean would be getting more desperate after his record breaking 4th quarter fund raising, but i had no idea folks would sink to such levels as this.

To quote Jon Stewart... "it's like they think we're retarded."

[TLM]

93. More selective quoting to attack Dean...

Dean's campaign said Saturday it ultimately was the NRC's responsibility to ensure security at the plant, but that he badgered Vermont Yankee's operators and the NRC to make improvements during the 1990s. It noted the NRC's safety budget was cut in the 1990s.


"After September 11, Governor Dean decided the buck stops here in terms of security and personally ran this effort, creating a Cabinet-level agency," spokesman Jay Carson said.


Carson acknowledged there were weaknesses before 2002 in Vermont's nuclear preparedness, and Dean moved quickly afterward to place state troopers and National Guardsman at the plant, distribute radiation pills to civilians, demand a federal no-fly zone over the plant to prevent an aerial attack, and increase emergency preparedness funding.

[Oreegone]

27. Will they stop at nothing

I guess we are finally done with Clintons dick...now how Dean voted for the war (i actually heard this from a DK supporter) and failed to protect the maple syrup industry from nuclear attack.

[madfloridian]

44. No, it is planned.

Go to the Clark blogs and search. Every attack you see here is there first. All the organizations like Ex-Deaniacs for Clark are there. StopDean is there.

It is a shame. I do NOT see those types of organizations being pushed on the Dean Blogs. I hope I don't.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

63. There you go! There go the put downs and the condescension.

It is good you do that, it reminds us what happens when someone tries to break out of the DLC mold.

It keeps us on our toes.

[Dookus]

66. knock off

the feigned martyrdom. If you can't read this thread and see the mockery and condescension being thrown at US, then you're being willfully blind.

[TLM]

97. What was that about "pious self-righteousness"

someone was saying to rationalize endless baseless talking point attacks on Dean from Clark, Kerry, and Bush supporters?

[Dookus]

108. *shrug*

I dunno. Did I say that? Doesn't sound like me.

[janx]

87. No...there are talking points and references and links to DU

on the Clark blog--specifically relating to Dean.

I saw this today.

[janx]

84. I have to second this, unfortunately.

I looked at the Clark blog.

You're right.

Edit: Why doesn't the campaign do anything to discourage this? Is there tacit approval? Do the campaign folks not communicate with the everyday bloggers?

[TexasPatriot]

45. yeah, i saw this

but there's no point bringing stuff like this here. After months of silly press-driven issues with Dean (just like Kerry and his expensive haircut) - the Dean supporters are so jaded the idea that this one is a real crusher wont connect.

Imagine, for a moment, this happened to a different candidate. Their supporters would be mortified - but look at how this story affects Dean Supporters - it's a very different reaction.

[madfloridian]

47. Is that another kool-aid drinker post?

I just love those.

[TexasPatriot]

59. no its not

i've seen rational arguments made, and many Dean supporters listen, consider them, and answer them succinctly. Even on the silly issues like 'why vermont is the only farm state' crap. it's an absurd issue to see everyone get bent out of shape over...

this is just a smell test issue. this one is going to stink and it's going to have legs. i'm sure you wish it werent true (i'd sure wish it werent true if i were a Dean supporter). but if you look at the frothing that's going on upstream in this thread you'll see what i mean re: why bother bringing it in here.

If the hard core Dean supporters were going to leave Dean, I get the feeling they'd have done it by now. This forum has become a place for the polarized factions more than anything. Every so often that's not true... and thats why its worth coming back.

[madfloridian]

62. "This is just a "smell" test?" So you guys plan to expand it?

SNIP.."this is just a smell test issue. this one is going to stink and it's going to have legs. i'm sure you wish it werent true (i'd sure wish it werent true if i were a Dean supporter). but if you look at the frothing that's going on upstream in this thread you'll see what i mean re: why bother bringing it in here.

MY take on your statement:

GO FOR IT.

Just go for it.

I just filled out my survey from the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. I included a note in it about the organized attacks on our own candidates. I told them my donations would start again when the attacks against our own stopped.

I told them where to look on the blogs, and I reminded them how dangerous it is to destroy your own.

*Especially when the one being destroyed is the one speaking the truth about this horrible war.

The primaries are not the end of this. Whatever happens, something big has started here. You may talk polarized all you want, just go ahead. Originally we did NOT do the polarizing, but we will fight back.

[Dookus]

64. uh oh...

we've been reported to the Purity Police! REGROUP! REGROUP!

[madfloridian]

65. Purity police? Purity police? New one. Good one.

That is very endearing. Thank you.

[Dookus]

67. well...

luckily, endearing you to me isn't my goal.

[FubarFly]

71. Good Idea,

Nice to see one of those here on occasion.

And by regroup, I hope you mean getting all of your facts straight before declaring 'doom and gloom' upon another Democrat. One article by an author with a obvious bias does not translate into a story with "legs." The possibility is there, but to claim it's inevitablity before getting the complete story is, to put it mildly, suspicious- in a friendly Democratic partisanship kind of way.

[Dookus]

73. lol...

first, I found it infinitely silly that somebody would proudly boast that s/he had written to the democratic congressional compaign committee to complain about the "organized attacks" here.

Nothing organized about it, at least from my perspective. I'm not anti-Dean. Not in the slightest.

I have pointed out that *I BELIEVE* this story will stick around. You're free to disagree, and you can be as suspicious or paranoid as you want.

I think this story is a lot bigger than the other inane attacks that have shown up here recently. If you search for all my posts, you'll also see I've never engaged in any of them.

[FubarFly]

74. I know, that's why I bothered to respond.

I am still assaying the information in this story. But I can tell you Dean's defense will work as follows:

First they will find the necessary information to insulate Dean, and discredit the charges. And secondly, they will turn this in to an opportunity to counterattack b*sh and his obvious and blatant weaknesses on homeland security.

I love stories like this, because it gives us an opening to go on the offensive.

[TLM]

103. Exactly... Dean will turn it right back on Bush...

for not providing the fund needed for domestic security.

47% of plants failed this test too, and they were far better fuded with federal money and NRC action than the Yankee.

[Dookus]

110. again...

please explain to me how the Governor of Texas is responsible for funding Vermont's nuclear power safety plans.

If this is the argument Dean will use the debate with Bush, he'll be laughed out of the auditorium.

[bearfartinthewoods]

126. had any bush budget been passed at that point?

just asking because i don't think clinton wants to hear more criticisms from dean .

[Dookus]

130. sigh...

I asked three times, hours ago and haven't gotten an answer as to how the Governor of Texas is responsible for funding failures at a Vermont power plant, and how Dean plans to make a persuasive argument for this.

[Kayla]

160. It's not like it's about a bake sale; this is serious!

Presidential hopeful Howard Dean, who accuses President Bush of being weak on homeland security, was warned repeatedly as Vermont governor about security lapses at his state's nuclear power plant and was told that the state was ill-prepared for a disaster at its most attractive terrorist target.

snip

Security was so lax at Vermont Yankee that in August 2001, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission staged a drill in which three mock terrorists gained access to the plant. The agency gave Vermont Yankee the worst security rating among the nation's 103 reactors.

snip

Dean's campaign said Saturday it ultimately was the NRC's responsibility to ensure security at the plant, but that he badgered Vermont Yankee's operators and the NRC to make improvements during the 1990s. It noted the NRC's safety budget was cut in the 1990s.

snip

Environmental groups sent Dean repeated letters about the plant's security and safety. During a 1998 federal security test, mock terrorists sneaked a fake gun past security and six times scaled, undetected, the plant's security perimeter fence.



http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/politics/article/0,1406,KNS_356_2550936,00.html

[madfloridian]

102. No, I did not *write* to them. They sent a survey. I made notes.

I did not give names of any place, but I made it clear that it was with the blanket permission of the party that the attacks were going on. I hope others who get the survey will do the same. It is time we stopped letting them bow down to the GOP.

Now, if you find that laughable, that is all right with me. We donated to the group frequently, and they send surveys along.

We are very upset with the way the party itself is encouraging the infighting. You should be as well..

I have a right to do this, to fill out a survey. Do you question that right? Am I to conclude that you are now making fun of me because I expressed my feelings to them?

Is that what you guy are saying? You may use any issues against Dean that you want. You should NOT make fun of his supporters. Repeat, you should NOT make fun of Dean's supporters.

[Dookus]

117. I will

give your warning all the consideration it deserves.

[Name removed]

123. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

124. This should be alerted on.

.

[bearfartinthewoods]

127. easy on em, dookus. their 'grouphug' thread got locked

you know the thread some dean supporters always feel the need to start whenever dean blows it so they can all agree that:
i'm ok
we're ok
dean's ok
everyone who doesn't love dean is poop

and other lofty discourse.

[TexasPatriot]

118. what i mean by a 'smell test'

is the old 'my shit doesnt stink' problem

too many times i see supporters of one candidate or another sit in here and proclaim for all the world that something that would be terrible in another candidate's resume is just fine in their own. That's a 'smell test'. I've raised the issue before in other posts - why it suddenly evokes such anger i'm not sure.

i'm sorry you feel your candidate has been a victim - but I dont really see it, and certainly dont see it in this case. You can read what you want into my post - and i'm sure you'll do the same here - but all i was trying to point out was that i found it unlikely that the hardcore dean supporters would find this, or near anything at this point, so offensive as to not rally to the candidate. I didnt imply there was kool-aid involved, you did, and my take was rather that you'd actually spent quite a long time trying to defend the candidate on all sorts of minor silliness that, in all honesty, wasn't serious. There have been a few campaign issues that I, personally, think are problematic for a Dean GE campaign. This is probably another one. Whether Vermont is a farm state is not.

[lurk_no_more]

119. You really did that?

I just filled out my survey from the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. I included a note in it about the organized attacks on our own candidates. I told them my donations would start again when the attacks against our own stopped.

I told them where to look on the blogs, and I reminded them how dangerous it is to destroy your own.



That is really pathetic, I have a 4 year old that doesn't run to momma when her brother picks on her.

*Especially when the one being destroyed is the one speaking the truth about this horrible war.

You forgot "the only candidate" in your claim to speaking the truth about this horrible war.

I cannot believe a grown person would admit to doing something like this.



” JAFO”

[madfloridian]

120. They wanted more money, they sent out a poll.

I filled out the poll. I made suggestions. One was to look around the internet and see how campaigns can not only be helped but be destroyed as well.

I am concerned about where our country is heading. I was not just for Dean in the beginning. Neither was my husband, and our children and grandchild were not either. We are keeping our options open, but we are afraid that some of the candidates may not take us in the right direction now. There is nothing wrong with thinking about the candidates objectively.

I am proud that I spoke out on this issue. I think the party may be totally unaware of the destructiveness of bloggers out to get others.

I am sorry you think it childish. Perhaps that is why our country got into this jam we are in now. People afraid to speak out.

Thanks for your polite words.

[madfloridian]

121. To repeat, they need to be aware of the destructive nature of the internet

as well as the benefits. I want to make that clear. I feel that this is a new thing. These internet campaigns have the potential to be very dangerous as well as helpful

They are so anonymous in nature, and people take advantage of that.

I know there is nothing they can do about it, and I see that as the next thrust at me. There is nothing they can do, but they need to be aware.

Our country is in a lot of trouble. You may call me childish names, and you may compare me to your child. Go right ahead.

[bearfartinthewoods]

129. you are assuming "grown"?

[bearfartinthewoods]

116. never forget...for every person that posts, there may be 100 lurkers

who haven't made up their minds. they have every right to hear this stuff so they know what they'll be up against with dean as the nominee. they get to decide if they want to spend the next ten months...... always wondering "what's next".

after all, they certainly get a full menu of 'dean walks on water' posts to even it out...

[TLM]

99. Well tex, since 47% of plants in the US failed this same test

it would be a good bet that at least one is located in the state of another of the candidates... and that it is also a state with MORE federal money for security than Vermont.

Does Mass have a plant... how about Connecticut?

[Dookus]

111. yes...

but only ONE was the worst. The one we're discussing.

[WillyT]

55. Big, Giant, Mushroom Cloud, POOP !!!

:hurts::nuke::hurts::nuke::hurts:

[nomaco-10]

61. It's started.... KKKarl

decided it was time to start the blitz krieg against Dean since he is the clear front runner and his "oh please let the nominee be Dean" reverse psychology campaign didn't work. Dean supporters dig in and man your battle stations, this is only the beginning. Also watch your flank because a general with friends in high places will be sneaking up on your "right".

[w4rma]

70. Bush didn't handle security at this nuclear very well and he wanted

Bush didn't handle security at this nuclear very well (the federal government provided security for this plant) and he wanted Gov. Dean to raise state taxes on the folks in Vermont to do it in order to pay for his huge federal tax cuts for the super wealthy.

It was like that all over the country (47% of the plants failed this test).

Maybe Bush should have funded the security at the plant, instead of redirecting resources towards federal tax cuts for the super wealthy and allowing 9.11 to happen?

[Dookus]

104. the article

talks about security issues dating from 1991 to August, 2001.

Can you explain to me how the Governor of Texas is responsible for funding security operations at a Vermont power plant?

[TLM]

77. What is most telling is what you didn;t quote...

As usual with most attacks on Dean, simply reading the full context at the link proved the attacks to be spun and unfounded.


The NRC has primary responsibility for safety at Vermont Yankee. But Vermont laws required an active state role by creating a panel to review security and performance and requiring plant operators to set aside money for the state to use in the event of a nuclear disaster.

Dean's campaign said Saturday it ultimately was the NRC's responsibility to ensure security at the plant, but that he badgered Vermont Yankee's operators and the NRC to make improvements during the 1990s. It noted the NRC's safety budget was cut in the 1990s.

"After September 11, Governor Dean decided the buck stops here in terms of security and personally ran this effort, creating a Cabinet-level agency," spokesman Jay Carson said.

Carson acknowledged there were weaknesses before 2002 in Vermont's nuclear preparedness, and Dean moved quickly afterward to place state troopers and National Guardsman at the plant, distribute radiation pills to civilians, demand a federal no-fly zone over the plant to prevent an aerial attack, and increase emergency preparedness funding.

[sandnsea]

80. It's not right anyway

I don't know who wrote this article. It's the responsibility of the plant, whether private or public, and state and local government agencies to come up with a security plan. The NRC approves them, they don't create them. Vermont Yankee was even more of a State responsibility because it wasn't sold to Entergy until 2002 or so. This plant was mostly Howard Dean's responsibility.

"The facility's emergency response plan must be discussed and agreed upon by the organization operating the power plant, by local and county emergency response officials, and by state emergency management officials. The plan is then reviewed by the NRC for adequate on-site preparedness, and by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), for adequate offsite preparedness."


http://www.nrc.gov/what-we-do/regulatory/emer-resp/emergency.html

[TLM]

105. LOL!!! Yes the state is responsable for creating the plan...

The NRC sets the guidelines and is responsable for the federal end of implimentation and funding the state plan after they approve it.


"I don't know who wrote this article."

THen try reading the by-line.

By JOHN SOLOMON and DAVID GRAM, Associated Press Writers


The NRC has primary responsibility for safety at Vermont Yankee. But Vermont laws required an active state role by creating a panel to review security and performance and requiring plant operators to set aside money for the state to use in the event of a nuclear disaster.

Dean's campaign said Saturday it ultimately was the NRC's responsibility to ensure security at the plant, but that he badgered Vermont Yankee's operators and the NRC to make improvements during the 1990s. It noted the NRC's safety budget was cut in the 1990s.

snip

Carson acknowledged there were weaknesses before 2002 in Vermont's nuclear preparedness, and Dean moved quickly afterward to place state troopers and National Guardsman at the plant, distribute radiation pills to civilians, demand a federal no-fly zone over the plant to prevent an aerial attack, and increase emergency preparedness funding.

snip

State Auditor Ready, a Democrat and Dean backer, agreed things improved after her critical 2002 report and that security tests this year showed Vermont Yankee was safer. "Once Governor Dean got that report there was swift and thorough action," she said.




Next?

[sandnsea]

114. Don't think so

This is some friendly advice which has absolutely nothing to do with Howard Dean. NEVER believe what's written in a news article or report or on TV or whatever. Go to the direct agency or original source whenever possible.

Most nuclear plants are privately owned by corporations. THEY are responsible for most of the costs of running those plants. THEY are responsible for working with city, county, and state agencies in implementing security plans. The Federal Govt. ONLY provides guidelines and then approves the final plan. Up until 9/11, I doubt they got very much security monies as these are commercial operations. Vermont's nuclear plant WAS NOT a commercial operation until 2002 when Dean sold it to Entergy. Vermont was responsible for that plant much more so than other states with privately owned, commercial plants.

http://govtsecurity.securitysolutions.com/ar/security_backyard_threats/index.htm

[Nicholas_J]

141. There was another sales agreement being arranged

And Entergy put in a bid very late in the game.

The people who wanted the deal to go though for Entergy/Koch Industries to get the bid were the people who contributed to Dean presidential campaign. The Entergy deal was not any better than the deal being made by the Pennsylvania company that was about to buy the company. The only differnce was contributions made to Deans P.A.C.

This is why the Conservation Law Foundation sued to get a record of Deans contacts with Vermont Yankee and Entergy and who he spoke to...

The person who questioned Deans actions in this deal was Mark Sinclair, who was also one of Deans own appointees to the Vermont Environmental Board, who with 3 other people were not reappointed by Dean after they began questioning the influence that major pollutors and energy deals Dean made that were not favorable to the State of Vermont, or the environment:

CLF seeks details of Dean administration’s talks with utilities
March 11, 2002

(from the State section)
By SUSAN SMALLHEER Southern Vermont Bureau

MONTPELIER — The Conservation Law Foundation will file a freedom of information request with the Dean administration today to find out how many contacts it has had with Vermont utility executives over the pending sale of the Vermont Yankee nuclear power plant.

Mark Sinclair, senior attorney with the environmental group, said Monday that recent news reports about the financial contributions made by Vermont utility executives or board members to Gov. Howard Dean’s presidential campaign political action committee were “too much of a coincidence.”

Sinclair said the new offer from Entergy Nuclear of Jackson, Miss., last week wasn’t substantially better than the original bid, and doesn’t really address the serious concerns raised by the state earlier this winter about local control and other economic issues.

“The department didn’t get anything,” he said.

Sinclair compared it to the negotiations with Vice President Dick Cheney by energy companies that are now subject to an investigation by the General Accounting Office...


Sinclair said he had credible information from a source who said that the utilities were putting pressure on Dean to get the sale approved, but he admitted he had no absolute evidence that that was the case.

http://rutlandherald.nybor.com/Archive/Articles/Article/43924



Also other environmentalist in Vermont do not paint a prett picture of Deans envtronmental record, except for the Champion land deal, and even in this case, Vermont Ski Resort owners, who also heavily donated to Deans campigns, may have benefited in this case...

Perspective on Dean from a Vermont Sierra Club Activist

Although he developed a fairly strong record on land conservation, in spite of failing to support some key land programs, he made himself a dismal record on other environmental issues. He strongly supported everything the utilities and ski areas ever asked him to
do. He supported mega-purchase from Hydro Quebec, refusing to even consider any alternative or the adverse impacts on our state’s economy. (Both he and the utilities spent the next decade complaining about the high prices and trying to get out of the contracts, as though they were someone else’s evil doings.) During a major battle over stormwater/sprawl legislation, he claimed that water from those polluted streams was clean enough to drink. I wouldn’t want this guy as my doctor, thank you.

http://www.thomasleavitt.org/personal/blog/index.php?p=311&c=1


As noted, Dean made the Hydro Quebec deal, that has ended up costing the citizens of Vermont a fortune (much like the situation in California, in which Grey Davis and the state was trapped into paying extremely high prices for electiocity, only in this case, Dean went into the deal willingly). Guess who was a contributor to Deans campaign, and Guess who ran "Republicans for Dean" during his 2000 election. William Gilbert, who was:



Dean, Cheney And Energy Secrecy



Dean's Vermont re-election campaign received only small contributions from energy executives, but a political action committee created as he prepared to run for president collected $19,000, or nearly a fifth of its first $110,000, from donors tied to Vermont's electric utilities.

One co-chairman of Dean's task force, William Gilbert, was a Republican lawyer who had done work for state utilities. At the time, Gilbert also served on the board of Vermont Gas Systems, a subsidiary of Hydro Quebec

Many state legislators, including Dean's fellow Democrats, were angered that the task force met secretly...

Elizabeth Bankowski, a Democrat who co-chaired the task force with Gilbert, told the legislature that the secrecy requirement "was decided in advance by the governor's office and the governor's lawyer."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/26/politics/main590311.shtml?cmp=EM8705


Dean decided in advance that this task force be bound by secrecy, as noted above, and it was not something that was requested by the task force members before hand.

Dean's statements that his task force did not resemble the Cheney Task force as his was bi-partisan, does not hold up to close scrutiny, as the majority of the members of the board were the same Republicans who formed the core membership of the "Republicans for Dean" organization set up by Gilbert.


Finally, just to keep the record straight about what a number of Democrats thought about Deans realtions with the energy companies:

Dean raises money from energy sources

February 27, 2002

One donor who gave Dean’s PAC the maximum amount allowed — $5,000 — said he did so because he and his wife “agree with many of the things the fund is talking about — fiscal conservatism, education, health care.”

That donor is Robert Young of Proctor, who also is a top official at two utility companies that have had a lot of important business before state government during Dean’s nearly 11 years in office. Young is chief executive at Central Vermont Public Service Corp. and chairman of Vermont Yankee Nuclear Power Corp...

A list of the Governor’s Council of Economic Advisers includes Green Mountain Power Corp.’s chairman, two company board members and a vice president, all of whom made donations to the Fund For A Healthy America. It also includes two longtime utility lobbyists.

Over the years, the governor has sided with the utilities on many of the most pressing issues, including the push for deregulation of the electric industry, and later backing away from that as a goal. Among other major decisions:

— After years of pushing for the companies to absorb the excess costs of their expensive contract with Hydro-Quebec, Dean’s Department of Public Service agreed to let ratepayers be billed for more than 90 percent of what those excess costs are expected to be in the coming years. The extra costs will be in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

http://timesargus.nybor.com/Legislature/Story/43125.html




If this were the only case in which Dean made decisions regarding legislation or regulations, one could beleive that it was simply a co-incidence, but several other incidences in which Dean made decisions which seemed to be too conveniently based on campign contributions or other pressures from corporate executives have been found in the public record:

MARCELLA LANDELL, et al., Plaintiffs, NEIL RANDALL, et al., Plaintiffs, and VERMONT REPUBLICAN STATE COMMITTEE, Plaintiff v. WILLIAM H. SORRELL, et al., Defendants, and VERMONT PUBLIC INTEREST RESEARCH GROUP, et al., Defendant-Intervenors
Docket No. 2:99-cv-146
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF VERMONT
August 10, 2000, Decided
August 10, 2000, Filed...

...

Reports also described allegations that Governor Dean vetoed a pharmacy bill after collecting $ 6,000 in campaign contributions from drug companies...

Editorial, Democratic process relies on reform, Burlington Free Press, October 6, 1997.

Bryan Pfeiffer, Dean Angry About Pharmacy Veto Criticism, News Story, Rutland Herald, June 16, 1994.

http://www.brookingsinstitution.org/dybdocroot/gs/cf/headlines/cases/LandellvSorrell.DOC

Also, there were allegations of Dean changing his stance on a bill requiring milk that came from cows given Bovine Growth hormone to provide consumer information, licensure for the use of BGH, which was supported by Dean until he had a private meeting with Monsanto execurtives:

Monsanto's Intimidation Tactics Continue

Headline: Monsanto Unit Challenges Vt. Cow Hormone Licensing Bil Wire Service: DJ (Dow Jones)

Date: Wed, Jan 14, 1998

MONTPELIER, Vt. (AP)--Monsanto Co.'s (MTC) Protiva unit said it will stop selling the artificial bovine hormone recombinant Bovine Somatrotropin, or rBST, in Vermont if a bill requiring that it be licensed passes the Legislature.

In a Jan. 7 letter to members of the Vermont dairy industry and to Gov. Howard Dean and Agriculture Commissioner Leon Graves, Protiva said forcing licensure would "severely disrupt previously private business activity; and it would do so in the absence of any legitimate state interest sufficient to justify the intrusion into your privacy."



http://www.organicconsumers.org/rBGH/MonIntim.html




The bill in question calls for any supplier of rBST who sells or distributes the artificial hormone to be licensed by the agriculture commissioner. Suppliers would be required to maintain records of purchasers' names and other information.

And the licensing provision establishes a method of verifying producers' claims that they did not use rBST in the making of milk or dairy products offered for sale in Vermont.
Rep. Jenny Nelson, D-Ryegate, a member of the conference committee that approved the measure was cited as sayin with that provision, the state can keep track of who is using rBST and who is not. There is no licensing fee.

Dean said he would veto the bill because of the licensing provision, which he opposes not because of Monsanto's threat but because he knows farmers are against it.

The bill also seeks to authorize a voluntary labelling program so consumers can select dairy products made without the use of rBST.

http://131.104.232.9/fsnet/1998/1-1998/fs-01-14-98-02.txt



Deans behavior in favor of those corporations who contributed to his campaign, and in particular, his presidential campaign are every bit as suspect as the Cheney/Ken Lay Energy Task force. Give the other incidents in which Dean has been seen to favor corporations and veto legislation which corporations wanted vetoed. particularly when money recently changed hands, makes it just as suspect as the relations between the White House and the Energy industry. When one considered that Deans campaign costs in his Gubernatorial campaigns ran around 350,000 dollars, the seemingly small amounts donated by Proctor and other Vermont Energy executives become a larger portion of the total campaign fund. Considering Deans ownership of Vermont Yankee shares, one should look even more closely at Deans behavior in this matter.


And considering that this is what we are allowed to know of what is in Deans sealed records (he refused to let the CLF have access to his contact records with Entergy and Vermont Yankee at the time he made his decisions about the change of the sale), one must wonder what lies below the tip of this iceberg.

[Leilani]

83. I have a question

& I'm not flaming anyone...

If Vermont did not have the resources to deal with security at the plant, And if it was a federal responsibility, Did Dean try to get help from Clinton, a Dem in the WH from 1992-2000?

Did he yry to get help from Vernont's Congressional delegation in DC?

Wasn't Bill Richardson Sec of Energy, which oversees nuclear power, & was he called for assistance?

The fact that it is a federal responsibility, does not absolve Dean from final responsibility to fix the problem or get the problem fixed by the Feds.

I do not know enough about Dean's tenure as gov, & I would like info.

Let's try to discuss issues without insults.

Thanks!

[hellhathnofury]

86. The article answers the question...

"In 1992, the NRC provided information to Dean about "declining performances at Vermont Yankee in three important areas: plant security, engineering/technical support and safety assessment/quality verification," documents show."

Dean responded by writing the head of the plant that the problems could "have an impact on the health and safety of the people of Vermont" and "it is my expectation that you will do all in your power to correct this declining trend." It was one of several such letters he wrote."

Dean did what all executives do, he delegated. In essence, he gave the plant head the authority to lobby whoever he deemed necessery.

[TLM]

107. There's also this part...

Dean's campaign said Saturday it ultimately was the NRC's responsibility to ensure security at the plant, but that he badgered Vermont Yankee's operators and the NRC to make improvements during the 1990s. It noted the NRC's safety budget was cut in the 1990s.

"After September 11, Governor Dean decided the buck stops here in terms of security and personally ran this effort, creating a Cabinet-level agency," spokesman Jay Carson said.

Carson acknowledged there were weaknesses before 2002 in Vermont's nuclear preparedness, and Dean moved quickly afterward to place state troopers and National Guardsman at the plant, distribute radiation pills to civilians, demand a federal no-fly zone over the plant to prevent an aerial attack, and increase emergency preparedness funding.

[askew]

85. Thanks for providing some actual facts.

Thanks for providing some actual facts about who's responsible for security and what steps Dean took, once he realized NRC wasn't going to be able to fully protect the plant. So, basically there is no story here.

[KittyWampus]

96. Fact- The NRC Is NOT Responsible For Fully Protecting The Plant

It is the responsiblity of the Plant's owners. It was Vermont State's responsibility while the plant was state owned.

The problems at the Plant were brought to Dean's attention, apparently. Nothing was done. Staff was underfunded.

When plant was bought by the Koch Brothers (after Dean's actions helped them buy plant below market value) were there any strings attached regarding upgrading Safety Violations?

[sandnsea]

100. The records are sealed

So I guess we don't know. :shrug:

[bhunt70]

158. I didn't quote it because there is a 4 paragraph max.

I took the first four and provided the link for people to read on their own. Im not an editor.

[hellhathnofury]

81. The joys of opposition research. I wonder where the records came from?

This story has no legs. It was primarily a NRC responsibility. When it came to the forefront Dean moved quickly and effectively, something the incumbent has yet to do.

[KittyWampus]

101. Ah, The "R" in NRC Is For Regulatory

They make the regulations (or not) and enforce them (or not).

They are NOT responsible for fixing problems. That is the responsiblity of the owner.

And the owner for quite a few years was Vermont State. And the Executive Office of Vermont (Dean) was aware of the problems.
Not only didn't his Office address them... they underfunded and underfunded the staff who would oversee Safety.

By the way, here in NY, since the Stock Exchange hasn't been cleaned up by the Federal Government... our Attorney General, Eliot Spitzer, is stepping in where the Feds won't go.

So griping about Federal involvement doesn't really wash when something is a problem endangering one's state's citizens.

[hellhathnofury]

122. And the money was coming from where?

Cut education or healthcare? If he'd done that he'd be under fire for that now.

This is so obviously either a Rove job or another campaign.

"The warnings, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press." Now where do you think they got those from?

The truth which the article makes very apparent is that Dean was not ignorant of the problem and he did take some steps. When it became a major priority after 9-11 Dean responded immediately with more than appropriate steps.

You can try to make this have legs all you want, it won't change the fact that there was no great negligence or wrong doing. School children not being padded down makes a security breach? Give me a break.

[Duder]

109. The NRC's a joke, imo

It's a National problem -

http://www.nci.org/01NCI/12/react-prot.htm

[kerry-is-my-prez]

125. Yikes - Capital Gang. It was rated the worst nuclear plant in the country"

Kate O'Bearne. Pointed out how that it was totally hyprocritical for him to criticize Bush on National Security.

Was not pretty....

[LiberalBushFan]

128. that's gonna be some effective ammo for the Repukes

should Dean get the nod.
We're talking nuclear bomb ammo, like the kind Saddam was supposed to have.
We's in trouble.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

131. LOL

[KaraokeKarlton]

132. Vermont Yankee, it's security, sale and criticism of Howard Dean

(Since the thread I started was locked, I'm going to post this here.)

Okay, let's take a very close look at this. Not too long ago, Dean was being criticized on this site for supporting the sale of Vermont Yankee. In the minds of some he was the devil incarnate for having any kind of contact with the company that bought Vermont Yankee.

Part of the reason Dean supported the sale is because the state couldn't manage Vermont Yankee. There were security issues that the state just didn't have the resources to deal with, no matter how badly the state wanted to be able to deal with them. That was the reality, period.

So, like a good, responsible, concerned and common-sense kinda guy, Dean wanted to sell Vermont Yankee to people who DID have the ability and resources to run it properly, address the safety concerns and protect Vermonters from potential disaster should a problem arise.

Now it seems Dean is being attacked for being "lax on security" of Vermont Yankee. This, to me, is downright ridiculous. The whole reason he wanted to sell Vermont Yankee is because he wanted to deal with the very security issue he's now being attacked about.

I'm sorry folks, but you can't criticize Dean for supporting the sale of Vermont Yankee to make it safer and then turn around and claim he wasn't doing enough to make it safer. Kindly make up your minds exactly which thing you want to criticize and then direct your criticism in the proper direction.

If you oppose the sale of Vermont Yankee, then you have no business complaining about the facility haveing safety issues and need to blame Bush for not providing adequate funding to protect the reactors from potential terror attacks.

If you want to complain about the safety issues, you need to take it up with those in Vermont who fought and held up the sale of Vermont Yankee that resulted in the safety lapses being prolonged.

[Dookus]

133. I never attacked him on that...

although I do have questions about "progressive" politicans who are so gung-ho for energy deregulation. But that's a different discussion.

The issue in this thread is why, over the course of 10 years, Vermont Yankee racked up the WORST security record of any nuclear power plant in the US.

It's been asserted here repeatedly that it's Bush's fault. But I don't see how that can be. Bush was Governor of Texas for the majority of that time, and I just don't understand how he was responsible for security at a state-owned nuclear power plant halfway across the country.

[KaraokeKarlton]

134. This issue doesn't warrant criticism at all

Deregulation...Dean favored giving it a try back before anyone else had tried it yet. Back then it sounded pretty good for the people. When he saw what happened in California he very quickly changed his mind. He's been opposed to deregulation for a long time now. Hindsight is 20/20 and you can't seriously fault the guy for wanting to save people money. That was why he favored trying it. Now he knows that's not what happens. A moot criticism.

Why did Vermont Yankee have the worst security record over that time? Simple...those running it didn't have the resources to make it more secure. That's why Dean wanted to sell it so that someone could take over the thing who did have the resources. Being that everything in Vermont becomes a big political argument and battle, it took awhile to actually sell Vermont Yankee. Much progress has been made and there's been vast improvements. The sale of Vermont Yankee and the security are all tied together. Dean was trying to resolve the problem and throughout the process there were people trying to sabotage and stymie his efforts.

Well, right now it IS Bush's fault, because he's not funding homeland security as he should be because he gave those irresponsible tax cuts. Prior to 9/11 no one realized how vulnerable we really were. So yes, right now it is Bush's fault. Over the previous decade, no it wasn't Bush's fault, but it wasn't Dean's fault either. Hell, I don't even think it's anyone's fault to be perfectly honest with you. It was just a case of a Nuclear Power Plant that was too broke to be as secure as it wanted to be and should have been. A best possible solution was found and in typical Vermont fashion, the state had to argue and fight over it extensively before coming to the conclusion that the state had ought to go with that solution because it was in their best interest.

This is hardly something warranting criticism of Dean.

[SEAburb]

136. "didn't have the resources" excuses me, but that won't fly

If your trying to say the state of VT couldn't fund a security force and system, I'm not buying that. That is a budget priority problem.

And if your blaming the new owner, then why did the state sell the plant to someone who couldn't afford to properly secure the plant.

The money was there, but corners were cut to save money to max profits.

[KaraokeKarlton]

139. Actually, I'm not blaming anyone

Have you ever been to Vermont? Do you know anything at all about life here, issues here or the people? I dare say you don't.

First of all, we do have the Vermont National Guard, and I suppose they could probably help out after 9/11 if they weren't over in Iraq thanks to Bush and Democrats like John Kerry and Dick Gephardt. But I digress...

Vermont is a small state with virtually no crime. We don't have a surplus of police officers, for the record. It's not simply a matter of "funding". The whole issue is far more complex that someone simply seeking something to criticize Dean on could ever understand.

Nice to hear that you are an authority on Vermont budgetary matters. I'll make sure to send a letter to Jim Douglas straight away and recommend he endorse you for state Treasurer since you apparently have all the answers.

:eyes:

[Dookus]

142. Karaoke...

I understand that you're exercised because you feel Dean is being attacked. The point that *I* (at least) am trying to make is that this is NOT going away as a simple slur, like "I'm the only candidate from a farm state". This is bigger.

The facts seem to indicate that a Vermont-owned power plant, over the course of TEN YEARS (and PRIOR to 9/11) was the WORST in the country in terms of security. This is NOT George W. Bush's fault - he was Governor of Texas for the vast majority of that time.

ANY state, large or small, that operates a nuclear power plant absolutely MUST do so safely, and if they can't afford to do it safely, then the plant should be decommissioned ASAP.

If Dean couldn't find the resources to keep this plant safe, why was it allowed to continue operating? Saying "sorry, not enough money - gotta balance the budget" doesn't work, especially from a leader who claims he's going to be BETTER on security than Bush.

Like it or not, this is a real issue, and Dean's going to have to answer it. And if the answer is "It's George Bush's fault", that's not going to be very convincing.

[KaraokeKarlton]

145. Vermont didn't own the plant

It was owned by multiple companies, with just over 50% being co-owned by two Vermont utility companies. The owners couldn't handle the plant and knew that. They wanted to sell it. Dean supported their desire to sell Vermont Yankee because they weren't able to run the place as it should be run. And it couldn't just be "shut down" because it would leave the state without power, for crying out loud. The previous owners started the process of selling Vermont Yankee back in 1997. The sale didn't even become final until July of 2002. When the problems became apparent, Dean did what he could to address them. Then in 1997 the whole battle over whether or not to sell the Plant started. At the time of 9/11, this battle was already going on. The companies running the plant had already made it clear they couldn't manage the thing and needed to sell. Since even an issue as insignificant as your neighbor farting too loud in Vermont ends up being turned into an argument over how to handle it, you can only imagine what this particular issue was like. All the usual suspects came out in force...the anti-nuclear protestors, the enviornmentalists, Third Party candidates seeking something to grasp onto to try to further their political agenda, etc, etc. Dean made every effort to do all he could to resolve the situation based on the circumstances of the situation...which were anything but simple, cut and dry or just a matter of allocating funding here or there. Every single issue regarding Vermont Yankee became a huge battle of wills, which tends to prevent any real progress. So, now the new owners have been running Vermont Yankee since July of 2002. That's just 6 months before Dean left office. I honestly don't know what anyone expected him to accomplish with the new owners in that amount of time, especially considering the years budget had already been done. Also, the new owners took control under the Bush administration and Bush isn't doing diddly squat for homeland security outside of some surface to air missles covering his own ass and his middle east oil conquests.

So, based on this information, how about you tell me exactly what Dean was supposed to do under the circumstances he was faced with?

1)He couldn't shut the plant down.
2)The previous owners didn't/couldn't get the job done.
3)Dean did what he could to make the situation better.
4)Dean supported a solution that Vermont felt compelled to argue over for almost half his governorship.
5)Prior to 9/11 no one knew how urgent the issue of security was, in all fairness.
6)The second Dean saw the level of urgency had changed, he immediately did everything he could think of to address the new threat that had become apparent.


I'm really curious what anyone thinks he should have done differently. :shrug:

[Dookus]

138. I'm not always so bright...

so please slowly walk me through the following issues:

Was the plant owned by Vermont?

Did it in fact gain the worst security record as of 8/2001?

How is the Governor of Texas responsible for that?

How will Dean make that case in a debate?

[KaraokeKarlton]

140. Just for the record...

trying to induce an emotional reaction from me won't work, so don't bother.

No, the plant wasn't owned by the state. The plant was owned by a variety of entities. Just over half of it was owned by two utility companies who were simply not doing so well in handling it. It's a very complicated matter, but suffice to say their ability and resources to manage Vermont Yankee simply didn't cut the mustard. Anytime you have a company owned by more than one person/corporation it makes for power struggles, conflicts and difficulty in getting some things accomplished. I dare say that this kind of mulitple ownership really isn't an ideal situation for a Nuclear Power Plant.

I'm not sure if it gained the "worst security record" as of 8/2001. I'd have to look it up to find out and frankly, I don't really give a shit if it did or didn't because it's irrelevent. The whole struggle to sell the damn thing went on for 5 years, which sort of prevented much from being accomplished.

Didn't I already say that Bush wasn't responsible before he took office? Why yes, I believe I sure did. I said that right now at this very second and after 9/11 that it IS Bush's responsibility because he knows there are vulnerabilities and rather than fund homeland security properly he chose to give tax cuts.

If it comes up in a debate Dean will explain the circumstances and clear things up just like he always does when an opponent tries to turn nothing into something. And his supporters will send in another cool million to show their solidarity.

[Dookus]

143. well

it seems the mere publication of this story has induced an emotional response in you.

I'm not posting here to attack Dean. I like Dean. I will vote for Dean if he's the nominee.

But.... I would prefer stuff like this come out NOW before the primaries. The Democratic voters deserve better than a pig-in-a-poke. I know YOU think Dean can dismiss this easily, but a lot of us can't.

YOU don't give a shit if it was the worst plant in the country for security. I do. Millions of others do. I also suspect that if this was another candidate's problem, you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.

[KaraokeKarlton]

146. That's not an emotional response, it's sarcasm

The publication of this story is inane, IMO. I'm a Vermonter and Vermonters tend to dislike terse write ups about what goes on in our state when those writing them can't seem to get the story straight.

Nope, I don't care if it was the least secure in the country against a terror attack. Why? Because I never even thought about it before 9/11. The issues are being addressed as well as they can be now that we all know terrorist will use planes as missiles and are capable of such heinous acts. I'm not into getting all bent out of shape over what might have happened but didn't, especially when it never so much as crossed my mind way back then. Life's much too short to do that.

:shrug:

[Dookus]

148. terse?

it's approximately 33 paragraphs.

Maybe you didn't care, but Dean SHOULD have because he was warned repeatedly, over the course of the ten years, that there was a problem and he didn't resolve it.

Now he's claiming he's better on security than Bush.

I know you don't think that's a problem for him, but I do.

[KaraokeKarlton]

153. Apparently you aren't even reading what I write

Because you still keep missing the point that Dean did everything he could to resolve the problems. There was only so much that could be done because of the circumstances. He was dealing with a plant run by multiple companies who were arguing amongst themselves on what to do. He was dealing with the state lawmakers who were arguing amongst themselves over what should and could be done. He was dealing (at that time) with a hellacious budgetary mess and huge debt he inherited from Snelling for the first few years of his governorship. By the time Dean got the state in the black again the sale issue started and everyone and their 14th cousin thirteen times removed were arguing over that. What most people on here do not understand is that Vermont politics are unlike anything you've ever seen before. You can't wipe your ass without having a vote over whether to do so standing up or sitting down and having a lengthy debate over whether 1 or 2 ply shit tickets are the better choice for the job.

Dean's one hell of a problem solver, but he's not God.

[AP]

144. This is bad from the left and the right.

Right: Dean looks weak on national security.

Left: Dean looks like he wouldn't do anything to increase operation costs for private utility. And these are the people who liked hims so much they contributed about 20% to his initial seed fund for running fro president.

[Catherine Vincent]

147. This is a top story on my local news via the internet, yet nothing

on the CIA Leak case. It looks like the media is getting an early start for the bushies.

[Dookus]

149. I'll take a wild guess

and propose that since this story broke today, AND that it's a Saturday and probably nothing new happened in the CIA leak case, that they decided to go with this.

Would you prefer a lead story that says "Nothing happened today in the CIA operative leak-probe, what with it being Saturday and all, but here's a summary of everything's that happened to date".

[TexasPatriot]

150. i wouldnt worry

between the mars lander, britney getting married, all the football, the pete rose admission, and more deaths in iraq - this one is page 27 material. my guess is he'll hear about it in the debate though.

[Catherine Vincent]

151. But I didn't see anything on their front page when Ashcroft

recused himself from the case. What I am saying is my local news stations pick and choose what goes on their front page. Btw, I'm in Texas, that should explain how the media here reacts to certain news.

[stickdog]

152. The NRC has primary responsibility for safety at Vermont Yankee.

End of "issue."

[Killarney]

154. I know that this news was released...

... only to smear Dean and I think the pro-Dean people have explained the situation well. But, the fact remains that this news is out there now and that in an election where the number one issue is going to be homeland security... this would really hurt Dean in a GE where he is pitted against Bush. This does affects things--right or wrong. :(

[maddezmom]

157. it was on CNN's website today n/t

[Loonman]

159. Interesting

...