Why are you Obama supporters behaving as if Hillary is the enemy? You're aiming at the wrong guy..

[chimpymustgo]

It should be McCain, but then again, you've been wearing those rose-colored glasses for too long, and you can't figure out who is who. That's why Obama is so confused that he thinks he's won the nomination.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. you mean, we should aim at BIll?

Naw, I suspect SHE is in control, and this damage is all her fault.

[Avalux]

2. You're right, it is McCain. That's why no more debates.

Obama is now focusing on McCain and the GE along with the DNC. Any further debates would give the perception Hillary is still a viable candidate, which she isn't. Obama will be the nominee and there's no point in engaging in Hillary's destructive games.

I agree with you, time to move on to McCain and for Hillary to fully support Obama.

[chimpymustgo]

4. No, we're still in the primary season. Until it's over, HRC and BHO should debate and answer the

voters' questions.

[Avalux]

6. You know it's not about answering the voters' questions, lol.

Hillary is broke and needs free air time; she wants people to think she still has a chance and she doesn't. Do the math, it's over.

[nichomachus]

36. That's what Obama wants to do

meet the voters and answer their questions -- not go through one more phony "debate."

Hillary could just debate herself, if she wants. She could make a statement. Then, they could play a video of her making the exact opposite statement. Another statement, another self-contradiction. That could be a mini-series.

[democracy1st]

44. there you go with that rightwing crap again

[CakeGrrl]

60. What questions do you think are still left after 22 debates,

Never mind the questions that Obama answers at his Town Halls (if you happen to watch any)?

[susankh4]

3. They simply do not get it.

Politics is rough on some people.... esp. those who believe the world is "fair."

[ccharles000]

5. I think there are many Obama supporters who are respectful of Hillary.

[Arkansas Granny]

7. I haven't seen very many of those around here lately.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

13. her tactics tend to turn people off

[JoFerret]

34. Obama's turn me off.

big time.

[existentialist]

8. like me

I support Obama.

I still respect Hillary.

But her campaign tactics are certainly putting some major strains and qualifications on that respect.

And those tactics are not helping her, or Democrats in general. Quite the contrary.

[Evergreen Emerald]

9. which campaign tactics are those?

Are you also offended by Obama's campaign tactics?

[existentialist]

27. Well, for starters

There was what has been characterized as "a campaign strategy that insults 40 states." There is a basis in fact for that characterization, and it goes back to what has long been the Clinton strategy of focusing only on what have generally been considered safe Democratic states, and just a few others that are right on th margin, and are thought to be winnable with just a little extra effort. This did win two campaigns for Bill Clinton, but it has hurt the Democratic Party generally, certainly since 1994 when we lost both houses of Congress.

I live in one of those 40 states--one which has despite Clintonian neglect, managed to elect a Democrats to a significant part of our paltry Congressional representation. Presently one Senator out of two, and one Congresswoman out of one, are Democrats. Working to elect Democrats over the years despite mostly neglect from Clintonian politicians has rubbed some of us the wrong way for years.

Obama went to these states, treated us as if we were important after all, and has won in states like mine, and will presumably win in my state too when we get around to voting on June 3--I'll be voting for him, so will most of the Democrats that I've talked to, and I'll be very surprised if he does not carry South Dakota with more than 60% of the vote, and 65% would not surprise me--he may even get 70%, as he has in some states.


Second, for all their denials, the Clintons have "played the race card." They have accused Obama of this, but my analysis of the evidence indicates that it is the Clintons that are guilty on this point. I see Hillary Clinton's argument of "electability" itself as a thinly veiled argument that whites won't vote for blacks, and, indeed, the way she is campaigning may persuade some not to vote for blacks. Contrary to Clintonian assertions, I do not find a choice of Obama over Hillary Clinton to be a misogynist choice. As with any group that suffers discrimination, getting past discrimination includes allowing each individual member of the group to succeed, or fail, on their own merits, and the recitation of the choice of Obama as a choice over Hillary Clinton as a misogynist choice is simply not true. Under some circumstances--i.e. if despite all she does receive the Democratic nomination, then I am still willing to support her, and will support her as against John McCain. Obama is a truly exceptional candidate--probably not only once in a generation candidate, but a once in a life time candidate. If Hillary Clinton takes a personal affront because someone else is better qualified than she is--then that itself is indicative of a character flaw in Hillary Clinton.



Third, her scare tactics upset me. That 3:00 am stinks. And for that matter, I would much prefer to Barack Obama answering that call than Hillary Clinton. His thinking is more flexible, and despite Hillary Clinton's (true) claim of having more international experience, he is better tuned to international reality. He was right about Iraq long before Hillary Clinton, and his statement of Pakistan as being the most dangerous country in the world back in December--just before Benizar Bhutto was assassinated, again indicates that his has a better grasp of international realities than does Hillary Clinton.


Fourth, his appeals to hope play a lot better to my mind than Clinton's cynical dismissal of them.


Fifth, what I truly find astonishing, refreshing and promising about Barrack Obama is the extent to which he has been able to speak the truth about what is happening in America, and get away with it. When he stated that most of political rhetoric does not address the important issues, and that every one in politics knows it, he was telling the truth. Even when he inartfully categorized working class whites as "bitter", and clinging to guns and religion, he was telling the truth--and Hillary attacked him for it.


Do I find some of Obama's campaign tactics offensive? Occasionally I do. But when I find particular tactics in Obama's campaign offensive, they are the exception. Unfortunately, I find offensive tactics in the Clinton campaign to be the general rule, and not becoming any less so.

[Evergreen Emerald]

28. You and I see things differently.

So you are suggesting that the democratic strategy since 1994 until Dean, was all Hillary Clinton’s fault? And then you are suggesting that Obama changed all that! Did he also invent water?

Second: “race card.” You and I disagree. The facts show, if you are willing to do some checking on the recent history, that Obama had to do something to take away the momentum that Clinton had…and frankly it was planned all along for Obama to use the race card for SC and now again for NC. Clyburn comes out again, after SC…gee what a coincidence. Obama admitted that he was sending e-mails to the press suggesting “Racism!” And it was all made up out of whole cloth—just like most of the attacks on Clinton. “Fairy Tale” was taken out of context, just like the MLK statement Hillary Clinton made. To suggest that Obama’s lack of experience is thinely veiled racism is laughable. Akin to Elitist = uppity. Looking for racism when it is not there—yet refusing to acknowledge sexism when it is explicit is double standard hypocricy.

Obama was the first to question Clinton’s “electiability” and suggested that “his” supporters will not vote for her. Is that a thinely veiled race card?

Not once had I have heard Clinton assert that a vote for Obama = misyogny. That is another straw man. To deny that sexism exists is one thing, but to make the leap to support her or you hate women—is something Clinton has never said.

More distortions and twists from those looking so desparately for reasons to HATE.

You suggest that her “tactics” scare you? 3AM. This is a political contest. I do not see you acknowledging that Obama’s lies in his flyers or surrogates calling Clinton all sorts of names (lying and distorting). What gives? Why the double standard?

Iraq: He has supported the war since it mattered: when he was in the Senate and could do something. He sat silent, doing nothing but voting for more war. He has nothing different than Clinton with regard to the war.

You suggest he has a better grasp of international issues: THAT makes me laugh. Pakistan has been in chaos for decades and he actually accused Clinton of being responsible for Bhutto’s death. He showed RIGHT THEN his lack of historical facts. Besides his lack of knowledge of the issues, that comes out in every debate, he has a lack of courage. He avoids votes on important issues, waiting in the wings, lying about why he missed the votes, so he can later claim any stance that is popular at the moment. And if the popularity changes, he is ready for that too. Just like Iraq—one speech, then hid that speech, agreed with Kerry and the President, voted for war, and then changed again when running for office.

Hope: whatever. He does speak well. But, has nothing to offer. Hope needs action. He is unwilling to act.

Speaks the truth: I just am amazed at how “truthiness” has become the standard. His truth depends on the audience. Bitter, clinging to guns and religion, I find a false statement. A condescending statement not unlike the statement he made about those of us who have been fighting for years for civil rights—those of us he brushed aside. He has been caught in so many lies that go unexamined. How much $ he received from Rezko. How to define lobbyist. His relationship with Rezko. His tax returns.

And of course the worst thing he has done—and it is the worst thing I have ever seen in politics (not unlike what Bush did to McCain) was to use race to divide the democratic party. When he accused Clinton of “Racism!” shouting it from the rooftops in a designed attack to win SC, he lost me. I could never support someone as dishonest and capable of doing that most heinous thing—calling her a racist. He lost my support forever.

You and I see things completely differently. I am not one to follow the mob mentality or to nod in lemming like-fashion at what the media tells me. I research and watch and read.

[Zhade]

55. You see different from REALITY, and you're one to talk about honesty!

TUZLA.

[AquarianRealm62]

41. Most excellent post. Thanks for sharing.

[Zhade]

54. You must not have seen the Tuzla video if you still respect her.

NT!

[bowens43]

10. At this point she is the enemy. She is working for McCain and 2012.

[splat]

16. You are the problem if you believe that lie and repeat it

She is, always has been and is still a longtime Democrat running hard to win now. Obama is the newcomer more likely to be positioning himself for a later run. He is, after all, only 46.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

22. "...positioning himself for a later run." ???

If by later you mean the GE, I agree.

[cyndensco]

49. LOL- must be the GE

You know, he IS only 46 - he should wait his turn...Perhaps 8 years under her and bill's tutelage??
:sarcasm:

[JoFerret]

33. Utter nonsense

.

[carolinayellowdog]

11. "You people"+blame=stereotyping and scapegoating

Obama supporters are individuals

[chimpymustgo]

12. Actually, I used the wording from an Obama supporter's thread, just changed the names.

HawkeyeX (1000+ posts) Sun Apr-27-08 02:50 AM
Original message

Why are you Hillary supporters behaving as if Obama is the enemy? You're aiming at the wrong guy..

Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 02:50 AM by HawkeyeX
It should be McCain, but then again, you've been wearing those rose-colored glasses for too long, you can't figure out who is who. That's why Hillary is so confused that she thinks she's the leading candidate.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5702802

[JoFerret]

57. Amusing

Tsk you people!

[cali]

14. Why do YOU act as if Obama is the enemy?

sheesh. Pathetic.

[ampad]

29. I know right

I know you are but what am I? poor Hillary! geesh what a joke.

[Window]

15. Actually, 'you Hillary supporters'

need remind Hillary that it's McCain, not Sen. Obama who should be treated as 'the enemy.'

[MannyGoldstein]

17. So who should The Clintons attack?

Should they stop attacking Obama and praising McCain?

[cyndensco]

50. Yes, the clintons should stop praising mccain..

[cali]

18. YOU just spread the lying smear that Obama;'s campaign played a rap song

calling women bitches as he entered his victory celebration in IA. Not a word of truth to it which you fucking well know. Disgusting shit. Shove lies and smears like that. How fucking dare you post this when you peddle smears and lies like candy?

[chimpymustgo]

21. Calm down. You are really out of control this morning. Feeling desperate?

I just copied that part of the OP about the song that I found offensive. Get a grip, girl.

[cali]

30. lol. you repeated a lying smear, sweetie.

and no, sorry I'm not feeling desperate. It's just hypocrisy on the level you take it to is infuriating to me. Actually, it occurs to me it's not hypocrisy, but CD. You are clueless.

[mmonk]

19. Simple: Race baiting and pretending Obama is linked to terrorism.

When she mentioned Farrakhan and Hamas in the last debate, she became dead to me. That is your problem. What are you going to about us now?

[Zhade]

56. How do you feel about Obama? I'm supporting him, even with his flaws.

I value your opinion.

[Kaleva]

20. a football analogy

The Lions are in a tight game with the Packers. The author of the OP suggests that the Lions ought to ignore the Pack and instead call in plays as if they are playing the Bears who are scheduled for the following Sunday.

[joeybee12]

23. You're right...she is his opponent, and he is hers...nothing more...

...I swear, every BO supporter here must have a glass jaw...a little criticism from Hilary, some SOP, and she's Satan. They are clueless as to what politics is all about, and they are in for a big surprise come this summer.

[Bluenorthwest]

24. If I might offfer a word...

in a world where words have no more meaning. I would say John McCain and the GOP are the opponent. Hillary and Barack are rivals. They are vying for the same spot. Their policies are so indentical that the implication that they oppose one another in any way but in trying for the job is sort of laughable.
And just a note, if I was looking at campaign tactics alone, I could not vote for either. So I for one have to look beyond that crap. I refused to watch the ABC debate, I boycott ABC for being GOP. I see no media about this cycle at all anymore. Aside from DU, it all happens in the world of flesh and crud.
The ongoing Primary is very useful in many non Presidential ways. It is good for all of us. I know few share that feeling, but of course the Superdelegates could declare today and end it. They don't because this is valuable time for the Party in ways many people don't think about. People voting is good. People wanting to vote is even better.

[cbayer]

42. That was really well said.

I agree that contested elections are very good for the process. Because their platforms are so similar, I think the fears about the party being torn apart are really overblown. The outcome remains unclear, but I feel pretty confident that we will rally around our eventual candidate.

[Life Long Dem]

25. Post like this one from the OP only divide us more.

Everyone needs to settle down on the attacks. Posting articles or information that is negative are helpful, because they are fact (or believed to be) but the attacks telling us we are to blame for Obama's confusion because he thinks we told him he won the nomination is an attack and only divides us more. If your for dividing us more as a Democratic party then may I suggest you find another party.

[Jawja]

26. Because the enemy, which is the GOP,

is helping Hillary with her spin on why he HASN'T won the nomination and why she is more "electable" than he.

While Democratic Party endorsements are coming in for Obama, the Rethugs and their cronies in the Corporate Media are keeping it "alive" for Clinton.

[sendero]

31. When she started treating Obama..

.. as the enemy, even comparing him unfavorably to McCain, well she BECAME the enemy to any progressive with two brain cells to rub together.

Maybe not you though.

[Catchawave]

37. You mean McCain's experience ?

Yes, McCain has more experience. Did she compare their judgment and values, no.

Pick your battles. She is not my enemy, but people who spew media soundbytes out of context are.

[Coexist]

32. I think you switched Obama and Hillary in the OP by accident

and its woman, not guy at the end, there.

[yourguide]

35. Nope, when a fellow dem uses tactics

that would even be touch for the republicans to roll out, I think it's clear HRC is a problem.

[Gore1FL]

38. I wish Obama would concentrate on McCain

as Hillary is out of contention fr the nomination.

[cyndensco]

51. When a talking head first suggested Obama disregard hillary and go after mccain,

I thought it would be way too disrespectful. Now, though, with hillary constantly trying to move the goalposts and change the rules, she deserves being overlooked.

Go Obama

[Armstead]

39. Perhaps because Hillary keeps insulting Obama and his supporters

And please tell Hillary that McCain is the enemy, not Obama, or we naive elitist children who believe he would be the best candidate and president.

[frickaline]

40. sorry we can't hear you - too busy biting our ears to spite our face

[stillcool]

43. Confused? Not.

........What enemies do..........

December 10, 2007
Third Clinton Volunteer Knew Of Smear E-Mail
A third volunteer for Hillary Clinton's campaign was aware of a propaganda e-mail alleging that Barack Obama is a Muslim who plans on "destroying the U.S. from the inside out. "Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential Candidacy," the email reads. "Please forward to everyone you know. The Muslims have said they Plan on destroying the U.S. from the inside out, what better way to start than at The highest level."

Two Clinton volunteers, Linda Olson and Judy Rose, have already been asked to resign from the campaign for their roles in forwarding the e-mail. The AP reported yesterday that Olson, a volunteer coordinator in Iowa County, sent a version of the e-mail to 11 people, including Ben Young, a regional field director for Chris Dodd's campaign. Young passed it on to the AP.
http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/12/third_clinton_v.html

Kerrey Apologizes to Obama Over Remark
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=4031436
Kerrey's mention of Obama's middle name and his Muslim roots raised eyebrows because they are also used as part of a smear campaign on the Internet that falsely suggests Obama is a Muslim who wants to bring jihad to the United States.
Obama is a Christian.
The Clinton campaign has already fired two volunteer county coordinators in Iowa for forwarding hoax e-mails with the debunked claim. Last week, a national Clinton campaign co-chairman resigned for raising questions about whether Obama's teenage drug use could be used against him, so Kerrey's comments raised questions about whether the Clinton campaign might be using another high-profile surrogate to smear Obama.

Hillary: Sorry for Any Offense Campaign (Bill) Has Caused
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB65wJ6Rcfs

Bill Clinton Asks for a Second Chance
By Liz Halloran
Posted February 11, 2008
The morning after his wife, Hillary, was routed in three state contests by Sen. Barack Obama in their dead-heat battle for the Democratic nomination, former President Bill Clinton made his case for her before a packed Sunday service at one of the largest black churches in Washington, D.C.
But first he offered an apology of sorts for racially tinged comments he made about Obama and his candidacy that have triggered a backlash in the black community and among many other Democrats.

Clinton invoked his "worship of a God of second chances" in pronouncing himself glad to be at the Temple of Praise, which claims nearly 15,000 members. His invocation of second chances echoed comments he made early last week at black churches in California, where he campaigned for his wife before that state's
Super Tuesday primary, which she won.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-

2008/2008/02/11/bill-clinton-asks-for-a-second-chance.html

Source: Newsday
Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 at 12:04 pm
Barack Obama Accepts Apology From Hillary Clinton
Washington D.C. 12/15/2007 09:17 AM GMT (FINDITT)

Hillary Clinton went straight to Barack Obama with an apology following a staffer's remarks about any skeletons that may be lurking in Obama's closet, pointing out that she had accepted the staffer's resignation over the disparaging remarks. Obama accepted her at her word, according to his campaign staff, and is moving on without letting it interrupt his campaign plans.


Obama is currently leading the polls in Iowa and New Hampshire, the two early primary states often considered key to the process, according to numbers at usaelectionpolls.com, but on a national level Clinton still holds a huge lead. The most recently posted poll results show Obama with 31 percent of the
probable voters in New Hampshire backing him with 29 percent showing support for Clinton.
http://www.transworldnews.com/NewsStory.aspx?id=30629&cat=5

Clinton Camp Pushes O-Bomber Links: Ignores
Her Own Radical Ties
By: Justin Rood

ABC News - The Hillary Clinton campaign pushed to reporters today stories about Barack Obama and his ties to former members of a radical domestic terrorist group -- but did not note that as president, Clinton's husband pardoned more than a dozen convicted violent radicals, including a member of the same group
mentioned in the Obama stories."Wonder what the Republicans will do with this issue," mused Clinton spokesman Phil Singer in one e-mail to the media, containing a New York Sun article reporting a $200 contribution from William Ayers, a founding member of the 1970s group Weather Underground, to Obama in 2001.
In a separate e-mail, Singer forwarded an article from the Politico newspaper reporting on a 1995 event at a private home that brought Obama together with Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, another member of the radical group.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4330128&page=1

Bill Clinton To Apologize At LA Black Churches
Once again, Bill Clinton is ready to repent.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/02/bill-clinton-to-apologize_n_84573.html
On Sunday the former president is scheduled to visit black churches in South Central Los Angeles, where he's expected to offer a mea culpa to those who "dearly loved him" when he was their president, Rep. Diane Watson (D-Calif.) says. Watson, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus who has endorsed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), tells us she'll usher the former president to more than half a dozen churches in
her district where she says he needs to "renew his relationship" with congregants who were turned off by his racially tinged comments in the days leading up to and following the South Carolina primary. (Such as when Clinton compared Sen. Barack Obama's landslide victory to Jesse Jackson's wins in 1984 and 1988.)

http://graphics.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/20080112_nevada_lawsuit.pdf
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/a-feisty-bill-

clinton-defends-nevada-lawsuit/
CLINTON ALLIES SUPPRESS THE VOTE IN NEVADA...
On Meet the Press on Sunday, Hillary Clinton said her campaign had nothing to do with a lawsuit--written about by Nation Editor Katrina vanden Heuvel--that threatens to prevent thousands of workers from voting in the Nevada caucus on Saturday.
Back in March, the Nevada Democratic Party agreed to set up caucus locations on the Vegas strip for low-income shift workers, many of them members of the state's influential Culinary Union, who commute long distances to work and wouldn't be able to get home in time to caucus. It was an uncontroversial idea until the Culinary Union endorsed Barack Obama and the Nevada State Education Association, whose top officials support Clinton, sued to shut down the caucus sites.
The Clinton camp played dumb until yesterday, when President Clinton came out in favor of the lawsuit.
Clinton's comments drew a heated response from D. Taylor, the head of Nevada's Culinary Union, on MSNBC's Hardball. "He is in support of disenfranchising thousands upon thousands of workers, not even just our members," Taylor said of Clinton. "The teachers union is just being used here. We understand that This is the Clinton campaign. They tried to disenfranchise students in Iowa. Now they're trying to
disenfranchise people here in Nevada, who are union members and people of color and women."
Rank-and-file members of Nevada's teachers union also come out against the lawsuit filed by their leadership. "We never thought our union and Senator Clinton would put politics ahead of what's right for our students, but that's exactly what they're doing," the letter stated. "As teachers, and proudmDemocrats, we hope they will drop this undemocratic lawsuit and help all Nevadans caucus, no matter which candidate they support."
The lawsuit's opponents make a persuasive point. Creating obstacles to voting is what the GOP does to Democrats, not what Democrats should be doing to other Democrats.

Clinton adviser steps down after drug use comments
Earlier Thursday, Clinton personally apologized to rival Obama for Shaheen's remarks.
Obama accepted her apology, according to David Axelrod, the top political strategist for the Obama campaign.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/13/clinton.obama/index.html

January 6, 2008, 5:18 pm
Edwards: No Conscience in Clinton Campaign
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/edwards-no-conscience-in-clinton-campaign/
By Julie Bosman
KEENE, N.H. – John Edwards angrily took on Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton at two news conferences in a row on Sunday, saying that her campaign “doesn’t seem to have a conscience.”

COMPTON, Calif. (AP) — Hillary Rodham Clinton and her campaign tried to mend ties to black voters Thursday when a key supporter apologized to her chief rival, Barack Obama, for comments that hinted at Obama's drug use as a teenager. The candidate herself, meanwhile, praised the Rev. Martin Luther King and promised to assist with the rebirth of this troubled, largely black city.

Bob Johnson, the founder of Black Entertainment Television, apologized for comments he made at a Clinton campaign rally in South Carolina on Sunday that hinted at Obama's use of drugs as a teenager.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-01-17-

johnson-apology_N.htm?csp=34

Clinton Surrogate Compares Obama Ad to Nazi March
http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080201/cm_thenation/45278988_1
Fri Feb 1, 2:23 PM ET
The Nation -- On a media conference call organized by the Hillary Clinton campaign today, Clinton surrogate Len Nichols compared an Obama health care ad to Nazis.
----------
Accusing political opponents of Nazism is an outrageous smear. Raising the specter of a Nazi march in response to a health care mailer that evokes the insurance industry is so absurd, it would be hard to take the attack seriously, were it not launched from a high profile national campaign conference call in this crucial stretch of the presidential race. And political observers know, of course, that the Clinton Campaign regularly arranges opportunities for surrogates to launch these kind of smears, which are later followed up with apologies. (See: Bob Johnson, Bill Shaheen, Bob Kerrey, and Francine Torge, to name the most recent offenders.) For his part, Nichols did not immediately return a call requesting further comment.
-------------------------
Len Nichols, Director of New America's Health Policy Program, stated, "For nearly 17 years I have worked tirelessly to reform our nation's struggling health system. Today my passion overwhelmed me. I chose an analogy that was wholly inappropriate. I am deeply sorry for any offense that my unfortunate comments may have caused.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[Triana]

45. No - SHE is aiming at the wrong guy - as we've been saying in past weeks

Why doesn't SHE aim at McSame instead of Obama? Eh?

[sueragingroz]

46. these people have no idea what a rough campaign is all about

but they are about to find out!

[Butch350]

47. Remove the icon of ACP

...and replace it with Aunt J.

[Lerkfish]

48. LOL! you mean the guy that Hillary and Bill say should be the next president?

THAT mccain guy?


you guys are funny, no really...unintentionally.

[SoCalDem]

52. First things first...

Obama has to shake off his loony stalker first..

[Zhade]

53. For my part, because solid evidence documents that she's lied to us repeatedly.

Tuzla, NAFTA, the mother who died in the hospital. I expect more out of Dems than I do repubs.

I already *know* McLame is a liar and nutjob, and I know clinton needs to accept her loss so we can get to the business of pointing his flaws out without having to dodge her bullshit too.

[Cha]

58. Oh, it's chimpymustgo...Edwards supporter who

shills for the hilarystangebomb and yes, she is the goddamn freakin' enemy.

Just because chimpymustgo says she's not means as much as hilary saying she'll never fucking lie again.

"Why Hillary’s Lies are Important"

- March 24, 2008, 9:53PM
Hillary Clinton has been caught in a series of lies and misrepresentations during the primary campaign. To some of her supporters, these lies may seem trivial and insignificant and even politics-as-usual. However, please consider the serious impact of these lies by placing them in the context of the past seven years of the Bush Administration and the legacy of expanded executive power that he leaves behind. In particular, consider the dangerous message that the Clinton campaign sends by employing similar tactics to achieve her political goals.

1. The Florida and Michigan Primaries / The Delegate Count
Hillary agreed to honor the DNC’s decision to strip Florida and Michigan of its delegates after their primaries were moved up into January in express violation of the DNC rules. She did not change her position on the validity of these primaries until she found herself unexpectedly behind in the delegate count and desperately needed to claim the delegates that she had won in these unsanctioned contests. As her chances of winning the nomination became increasingly slim in recent weeks, we have been presented with threatening and desperate lines of reasoning for why these primary results should count as is. At the same time, Clinton and her surrogates continue to propose different metrics for determining who should win the nomination even though there is and has been a clearly defined process in place for several decades.

Please think about the implications of changing election rules after the fact. We have suffered through at least one stolen presidential election and the manipulation of untold numbers of Congressional and state elections through various vote tampering and voter intimidation schemes used by the Republicans and their allies. The American people (and especially Democratic voters) have lost faith in the integrity of the election process. The Clinton strategy to continually change the rules for determining the Democratic Party nominee sets a dangerous precedent that could lead to increasingly un-Democratic elections in the future if it is allowed to succeed. If anything, we need more transparency and methods of accountability in our elections in order to repair the damage done in recent years and to restore our confidence in the Government.

2. The Bosnia Fabrication / Exaggerated Experience Claims
Hillary fabricated a story about a dangerous, life-risking visit to Bosnia in order to gain stature as an experienced negotiator in international conflicts and war. While this type of embellishment can seem almost comical, it represents a willingness to distort reality in order to influence the public perception. This is the same type of distortion that the Bush administration used to justify the war in Iraq, although the magnitude of the lie is certainly on a different scale. The Bush administration falsified reports, cherry-picked intelligence, used unreliable sources, and employed fear-mongering tactics to convince the American public that our safety was at risk and as such, you were either with us or with the terrorists. The lies used by President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney are impeachable offenses and should be condemned by all Americans. Sadly, the Clinton campaign seems to have shown a shocking willingness to employ the same tactics to create a more favorable reality and to rely on divide-and-conquer rhetoric to weaken opposition. Her attempts to frighten the American people by conjuring up 3 AM phone calls are bad enough, but her vote of confidence in John McCain over Barack Obama should be seen as treason against the Democratic Party.

3. NAFTA
Hillary lied about her position on NAFTA and used her lies in a calculated way to influence the Ohio primary. Recently released White House documents confirm that Hillary had been an active proponent of NAFTA prior to its passage, and she has continued to support it publicly in her speeches and memoir. However, while campaigning in Ohio, she claimed to have been privately against NAFTA during the Clinton presidency and believes that it should be rewritten to protect American jobs and workers. This type of maneuvering is reminiscent of the behind-closed-doors policy-making that the Bush administration has used during the past seven years. Specifically, Bush and Cheney have made policy decisions without providing transparency to Congress or the public, and President Bush has repeatedly ignored the rule of law by issuing signing statements and disregarding the parts of the laws that he doesn’t agree with. If we cannot trust Hillary to be truthful about her positions on critical legislative issues now, how can we trust that she will be truthful as president?

These are just three examples that illustrate the concerns we should have with a candidate who demonstrates a sense of entitlement to the nomination and is willing to lie, misrepresent, threaten, and divide in order to obtain the nomination. President Bush and the neoconservative movement have greatly harmed this country by the creation of an imperial-like presidency. This election is not just about whether a Democrat or Republican wins but if the checks and balances are restored to the three branches of government. The framers of the Constitution were in such fear of an imperial president that mechanisms for impeachment are prominently and explicitly included in the Constitution. If Hillary Clinton is willing to use lies and deceit to win the Democratic nomination, what assurances do we have that she will not continue to use them once she is president?
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/03/why-h ...

<snip>

"Her response to being caught lying to a military audience, when she invented a story about being under sniper fire in Bosnia, was to say it wasn't surprising she got some things wrong, seeing how she spoke millions of words every day. What a magnificent idea, that if you say lots of words some of them are bound to be fantastic lies. So if you listen carefully to horse-racing commentators they say things like "And it's Teddy's Boy still leading three furlongs out as they come up to the fourth last fence with Nip and Tuck two lengths behind by the way I fought a tiger once, punched it clean out and they're all safely over."


<lots more>
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/opinion/article3 ...

"It's not that lying to pad the resume, avoid Indictment or to advance her political fortune is anything new for Hillary Clinton. She famously said she was named after Sir Edmund Hillary (debunked); she told New Yorkers she was a Yankee fan when she lived in Chicago (debunked); she told rural New Yorkers that she was a "duck hunter" (debunked); she claimed that her daughter Chelsea was jogging around the World Trade Center at the time of the 9/11 attack (debunked by Chelsea herself.) And, those subpoenaed Rose Law billing records just happened to show up one day on a hallway table in the most monitored home in America!"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[NoodleyAppendage]

59. ...because HILLARY IS THE ENEMY of populist movements everywhere. Screw her. n/t

J

[Rosa Luxemburg]

61. If Hillary behaves like a bull in a china shop

and can't stick to the issues then members are going to be a little miffed.