Hillary Clinton made it very clear, very early on, that she had distain for traditional women.

[Ninga]

Hillary Rodham Clinton started the firestorm, with her own words....some 16 years ago!!!

Hillary Clinton let it be known that she wasn't going to stay home and bake cookies like some little woman who'd "stand by her man like Tammy Wynette."


Why would an educated women, a college professor, an attorney, and the First Lady of Arkansas, take on her own gender with such inflamatory distain????????


Why would any of YOU think the GOP would willingly give up attacking Hillary's arrogance???? Hillary continued to fan the flames with her secretive, closed door health care meetings.

Hillary's history has contributed to the firestorm.


You get what you give.

The atmospher of this primary campgain is not taking place in a vacumn.

You get what you give.

[Bolo Boffin]

1. Bullshit.

Hillary Clinton made her disdain for patronizing men known. The statement was badly worded, and it's been twisted around against her.

I can't believe the right-wing bullshit trash that's getting posted here at DU.

[journalist3072]

2. The Obama cultists here on DU have no shame. eom

[Window]

33. Sen. Obama supporters have nothing to be ashamed about. However, Hillary cultists everywhere

should be ashamed of her and the lousy mismanagement of her campaign, not to mention all those damned lies she keeps telling.

[PoliticalAmazon]

84. Unfortunately, that comment fits a disgusting Hillary pattern....

...Of elitist disdain for people who she believes she is better than.

She also has a disgusting pattern of insulting and discounting any vote that won't support her.

If the "cookie baking" comment was one isolated instance of such a comment, then one could view it as a "misspeaking."

However, as Ian Fleming once said:

"Once is an accident.
Twice is a coincidence.
Three times is enemy action."

With her attitude towards those who she believes is less than her, and those who didn't vote for her, we cannot let that twisted and mood-labile politician have the power of the U.S. presidency.

[boston bean]

3. they got nothing better to do at this point. nt

[cali]

7. bwahahaha. says the hillydroid with a permanent, massive case

of disabling cognitive dissonance.

kisses,

:rofl:

[boston bean]

48. my stalker is back in full force! nt

[Forkboy]

76. Your stalker is right.

[boston bean]

78. is that you? did you change your socks? nt

[Forkboy]

80. Unlike the endless parade of Hillary sockpuppets I'm just me.

And cali is still right.

[MH1]

12. That right-wing bullshit trash will get played 24/7

if somehow Clinton were to become the nominee.

Along with Monica-gate, travel-gate, Rose Law Firm records, Bill's suspected dalliances since leaving the WH (doesn't matter if it never happened, remember), Saul Alinsky and the thesis that's blocked from the public, various other unreleased records, Peter Paul, Vince Foster, Norman Hsu, foreign donors .....

[Bolo Boffin]

62. That doesn't matter.

I don't see why I have to look at it being advocated here at DU. If this were a general politics board with Repukes and Democrats battling out, I'd expect to see junk like this.

But here? Senator Clinton could end up the nominee. This stuff is over the line.

[dansolo]

88. Then why haven't you complained when Hillary herself advocates the same thing against Obama?

Hillary's campaign's defense of her most recent attacks have been that the Republicans will use the same attacks against Obama in the general election. Why is it over the line when people use it against Hillary, but apparently it is perfectly all right when that line of reasoning is used against Obama?

[Ninga]

20. Not true.

[Ninga]

21. Not true.

[LaurenG]

59. Whatever.

I see you don't like it when your candidates words are twisted, join the club and then admonish those fellow Clinton supporters to stop doing the same thing to Obama.

I don't care what Senator Clinton says about women, she has never spoken for me anyway so it's no big deal if she doesn't want to bake cookies or if she was showing her disdain. The statement is meaningless to me, sort of like monster being a sexist term, it's just not true.

[Bolo Boffin]

60. I'm an Obama supporter. Voted and caucused for him here in Texas.

I would prefer he not get "supported" with bullshit like this.

[LaurenG]

61. I stand corrected, I agree with you.

It's obvious that I thought you were supporting senator Clinton. My apologies.

[Bolo Boffin]

63. No problem.

I think Obama would be the better president for a variety of reasons, but America would be damned lucky to have Hillary Clinton as President.

[roguevalley]

74. I remember that. Tammy Wynette really kicked her ass on that. :)

Her whole demeanor was so disgusted with being a regular first lady. It dripped. Go check the film. Nothing is being twisted. Maybe you weren't old enough to remember but I do. :)

[Carolina]

4. totally agree K&R!

[cali]

5. nonsense.

She refused to be pushed into a certain role. let it go.

[Ninga]

24. No one was insisting she be anything. She chose her own words. You get what you give.

[Solly Mack]

6. WTF does "traditional women" mean?

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

41. Now THAT's the question.

:toast:

[hisownpetard]

45. I think she meant "typical white women."

[MonteLukast]

8. Sometimes...

... I come off like I have disdain for traditional women, too.

But then I realized my disdain really lay with women who willingly turn away from their part in solving the problems of the world.

It's not the lifestyle of a stay-at-home-mom that makes you non-progressive. It's a cocooning attitude... a "my kids first, my safety first and screw the rest" attitude.

Even the reviled Dr. Laura took up a new martial art and wrote a book while "being her kid's mom".

Wasn't Cindy Sheehan a "traditional" housewife before she became an anti-war activist?

The sad part is that women who turn away from the world really do believe they must to preserve or strengthen their relationships and families. They embrace religions that treat them like dirt because they sincerely believe it will make them happier and socially stronger.

[hisownpetard]

9. Another example of Hillary Double-Speak! This is the Hillary who's not going to stay home and

bake cookies" fame, right?

The same Hillary who, last week, said to Obama, "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen,"
and then added, "And I, of course, am very comfortable in the kitchen."

Guess you're comfortable, as long as you're not baking cookies.

[cyndensco]

15. Did she really say she is very comfortable in the kitchen?

How hypocritical.

[hisownpetard]

18. Yeah, can you believe it?

And welcome to DU!:hi:

[cyndensco]

27. I'd like to say I can't believe it...

But nothing she says or does amazes me anymore. THAT is a classic!!!!
:hi:

[Sparkly]

39. You missed the whole point.

She was being attacked for having a career of her own. She wasn't dissing cookies, baking of cookies, etc., and turned it into something of a joke by serving cookies to reporters, publishing a cookie recipe, etc. In other words, yeah she's comfortable in the kitchen, and also in having a career. The idea that this was some big insult to women who don't pursue career was manufactured by political opponents.

[hisownpetard]

82. What YOU missed is this: she wasn't being attacked for what she said but for the way she said it.

And, yes, she was condescending to those women who do not choose a career path but choose to stay
home, raising their children.

This was not manufactured by her opponents but put out there by the tone and demeanor she exhibited.

[PoliticalAmazon]

85. She said it with disdain, clearly meaning "cookie-baking" homemakers are beneath her. n/t

[hisownpetard]

86. Yup.

:hi:

[livetohike]

10. She may not have baked cookies but those words

sure were prophetic about "standing by her man".

[BlueIdaho]

11. If you don't remember what a huge deal this was

You don't remember the '90's.

[cornermouse]

13. If Michelle Obama makes $6,000 a month in a hospital

I'm estimating she's probably mid-level to low upper level management. These are positions where they require a lot of hours, extra work, pressure, and stress. Bottom line, Michelle isn't baking many cookies either. The old adage "glass houses" comes to mind because this is something that could come back to haunt you.

[Ninga]

19. Hillary supporters have expressed a great deal of anger regarding why SOME perceive

Hillary in a negative way.

My OP is to give historical context, and to start a dialog about why SOME people have a very strong dislike for Sen. Clinton.

There was a "first time" from Hillary. She wasn't sitting in an office minding her own business and people started attacking her.....she was the fuel for her own firestorm.


You get what you give.

And if you give shit, then don't be surprised if you get it back.

[cornermouse]

26. No. Hillary was out there being her own person.

She was probably the best First Lady we have ever had in that she didn't "know her place", didn't spend her time planning lavish presidential dinner parties, spending money in exclusive designer shops, and running the domestic side of the White House, and she reflected real life for a lot of working women. For some reason, I think that's really important.

edit: forgot about Rosalynn Carter. She was good too.

[Ninga]

Yes, the good things Hillary did and stood for are real. But quite different and apart

from how she is perceived as a personality.

[cornermouse]

38. I would think your deeds and actions are a public exhibition

or expression of your private personality. Perception is interpretation of actions.

Example: I can't help how others perceive me. I can only be me and keep going.

[Ninga]

49. That's fair. However, in my opinion in the case of Hillary, her words played as big

a role, if not bigger, in how she was perceived.

[Ninga]

31. Yes, the good things Hillary did and stood for are real. But quite different and apart

from how she is perceived as a personality.

[hisownpetard]

22. I bet you're wrong.

[cornermouse]

28. I doubt it.

[hisownpetard]

29. The Obamas are a very close family. In the midst of his presidential campaign, Obama made sure

to fly home on Oct.31st so he and Michelle could take their kids...trick-or-treating!
Can you imagine two more devoted parents than that?
It made me love them all the more.

So, yeah, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Michelle made cookies for the kids some Sunday afternoon.

And isn't this a ridiculous conversation to be having?

Wanna talk about who voted for the war in Iraq, or for the Kyl-Lieberman amendment?

[cornermouse]

35. OP started this thread. I replied. You looked in and replied as well.

Pretty much says it all. Wikipedia bio.

In 1996, Obama served as the Associate Dean of Student Services at the University of Chicago, where she developed the University's Community Service Center. In 2002, she began working for the University of Chicago Hospitals, first as executive director for community affairs and, beginning May, 2005, as Vice President for Community and External Affairs. She still holds the position, though is working part time in order to devote more time to being a mother.

Addition: We have spent the last 8 years with a First Lady that no one in their right mind would look up to or want to hold up as an example for her daughters. Hillary and Rosalynn were good examples of different personal qualities. I see no good reason to attack Hillary for being a feminist.

[hisownpetard]

37. Your quoted paragraph about Michelle Obama totally supports my point.

She's working part-time, to spend more time with her children.

And as to your last sentence, about Hillary being a feminist?
BWAHHHAAAHHAAA!!!!!!
Good one!

Thanks. I needed that!:toast:

[cornermouse]

42. One little problem.

I wasn't going to say this, but most hospitals aren't going to let people go part-time because they want to spend more time with their children. They just aren't like that. But setting that aside, she's campaigning not child caring.

I should add I think Michelle has a lot of potential as a First Lady if she steps up and takes charge.

[spooky3]

53. She made $275000 per year - quite a bit more than $6K/mo.

[cornermouse]

57. You're right.

[Ninga]

14. GOOD GRIEF, PEOPLE !

Attitudes are conveyed by words. The spot light of the world was on her when she used those words.

And her behavior that followed those words re-enforced the early impressions many people had of her.


You know the rest of the story. Which most recently, had a chapter titled "Bosnia, and how I survived sniper fire."

Give me a break.

[saltpoint]

16. That comment she made did not do her much good.

She was castigated in the press for it generally and ripped to shreds in the VILLAGE VOICE particularly -- an excellent article, by the way.

When I think of the true feminists, Mrs. Clinton's name does not fly to the forefront.

[chill_wind]

17. Apparantly, a lot of the older blue collar white women of Ohio and Western Pa

clinging to their rolling pins and their Tammy Wynette CD's forgot all about this elitist chapter of her resume.

[suston96]

23. "Distain"? I have "distain" for women who traditionally believe that they are inferior to men...

...and that they must at all times be subservient to the men in their lives.



Now that's what "distain" - looking down on women - looks like......

[Bluebear]

25. The only 'distain' I saw about that remark came from the RW noise machine,

[undeterred]

30. "Dis tain" id off da tracks.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

32. Here, Have A Seat. You Must Be Dizzy From All That Spinning.

[Sparkly]

34. You really mangled the quotes.

The actual quotes, IN CONTEXT, made perfect sense and did not show "disdain for traditional women" (whatever "traditional women" are anyway!). That was a matter of right-wing spin.

[Barack_America]

36. The gaffe that began "Hillary Hatred". n/t

[AnotherMother4Peace]

40. I heard this same right wing talking point on Faux news. n/t

[hisownpetard]

83. Why are you listening to FAUX News?

[AnotherMother4Peace]

89. Keep your friends close, your enemies closer - Faux always has the latest radical right wing tp's

Thanks for asking.

[Ninga]

43. Believe what you wish. See what you want to see. You get what you give.

Disdain or not, she delivered those words with such vitriol, that it was like a slap in the face.

[Jade Fox]

55. "Such vitriol it was like a slap in the face"......

You are simply playing the victim here. Next you'll claim the comment was directed at you specifically!!

[Ninga]

66. Where were you in 1992? Tell me about your experience with how many women heard her remarks.

[Jade Fox]

69. In 1992 it was a media event designed to rile up....

people like you.

The main reason people even heard that remark is because the media jumped on it and made it a big deal.

Frankly, if traditional women are so fragile that a remark like Clinton's can devastate them, they need help no politician can give.

[Ninga]

75. Where were YOU in 1992? What real life, office, neighborhood, women talk experience did

YOU have.

Don't take me to school with your analysis on what the media did..... this is not about me, about you or about fragile women.

It is about the words and an attitude of a person who has managed to fuel the fires of anger with words, deeds and attitudes, consistently.


I defended both Clintons until 1998. I think that of all people in this entire world, both of them have gotten more benefit of the doubt, and have abused the good will of supporters like me, and I will no longer stand by and not replay the history that has brought us to this discussion.

[Armstead]

44. Not to mention how elitist it is to attack a country music legend like Tammy Wynette

Hilllary Clinton has been as responsible as anyone for the elitist image of the Democratic Party over the years.

Her current morphing into some kind of lower-middle class populist is just another reinvention that will come back to bite her if she happens to win the nomination.

[cbayer]

46. Taken totally out of context and not even correctly quoted.

The quote: "You know, I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies and had teas, but what I decided to do was to fulfill my profession, which I entered before my husband was in public life." She was talking about how women can choose home or career. She was challenging the traditional role for wives of elected leaders. It was a recognition of women and not disdain.

Feel free to push the RW spin on this very, very old issue. You don't scare her, I assure you.

[Ninga]

58. She "fulfilled" her profession. She didn't say she made a choice.

She didn't say she choose career over home. You either understand the difference or don't chose to understand.



She made an off handed, capricious comment, that was not needed to explain her choice. She implied that staying home was a social event....cookies and tea...


It was her "slam" that people heard....the rest of what she had to say was lost in the noise that followed.

[bridgit]

47. Tammy Wynette was pyschically abused in her relationship. Are you saying 'traditional women' must...

accept such treatment? If so I disagree. Further, she was referencing American pop/country iconography. Extrapolating, you seem to be suggesting HRC is *not* proud to be a coal miner's daughter. I am shocked, shocked I tell you! That you haven't yet tied her to being a racist for being too white & nerdy.

[Ninga]

50. The year was 1992. She said what she said. I do not suggest anything, other than

many right-wing women were offended.

I for one, was a person who found myself defending and explaining what Hillary said and what she meant.

I spent many years defending Hillary.

I gave up in 1998.

[bridgit]

56. You've gone 180, right-wing women are offended at the drop of a hat it would seem...

someone else's hat preferably I am sure. A recitation of a RW talking point from 1992 will imo not make the medicine go down so as to suggest.

[Ninga]

64. For goodness sake, I didn't like what she said, but being a strong Democrat, I found

reasons to defend her.

The RW talking points were fueled by Hillary. She gave them fodder for the mill, and they ran with it....

Either you understand that or not.

Democrats are offended too, at the drop of a hat by things GOP'ers say. Give me a break.



People want to know why Hillary draws such negative comments....it has NOTHING to do with her gender.....it has to do with her words.

[Jade Fox]

51. As opposed to Cindy McCain posting phony recipes on....

her husband's website to make herself look like more of a "traditional woman"?

When Hilary Clinton made that comment, she was just being honest. It was the media who decided she was dissing traditional women.
Thanks for continuing to side with the media against a Democratic candidate.:sarcasm:

[frickaline]

52. Perhaps this is the attitude required to break through the glass ceiling

I don't see something negative here so much as self-motivation. I don't think she should be belittling the choices of others, but I understand why she made this remark and how it provides her with the energy she needs to fight the very difficult battle she faces.

[Skidmore]

54. Sorry, but I've been fighting this urge since I first read this thread earlier today.

Distain was on the blue dress.

[joeybee12]

65. What an ignorant, ignorant post...this comment, like Al Gore inventing

the internet was taken out of context and distorted. nice to know you're on the side of right-wing scum that have been promoting this for years. You foolish, foolish person.

[Ninga]

70. Where were you in 1992? Tell me about your experience with how many women heard her remarks.

If I am speaking the truth as I know it, and so did Hillary in 1992, then you are treating me, exactly as the "hillary haters" treat her.

Your lack of understanding of the impact of her words, is not unusual.

[noel711]

67. A true feminist supports women's individual choices...

Feminism give the freedom for women to do what they need to do for their own lives.

True feminism proclaims that when we have choices, we make the best choices for ourselves
and for our families.

True feminism knows that there are many women who don't have choices, and feminism supports them also by supporting public policy that attempts to offer health care, financial aid, day care, further adult education and job opportunities to women who lack freedom of choice.

True feminism doesn't pull the proverbial rug from under women who have made choices that others may disagree with: I made some difficult choices about my education, but it worked out best for me. I was blessed enought to stay home with my daughter for the first 3 years of her life, but not every woman has that opportunity. However, I would never undermine another woman who decided to stay home with her kids.. if she had the support of a spouse.

And if another woman wants to 'stand by her man,' and bake cookies, it's her decision.

If 'standing by her man' means standing by his side even if he betrays her, like many of us women have experienced (including SEnator Clinton), that is her decision.

[Maribelle]

68. Why is it arrogant or expressing disdain to say I've never found it hard to be a woman?

[Ninga]

71. I don't know. How hard can it be to stay home and bake cookies and have tea????

Hillary took the hard job, and fulfilled her profession.

Wasn't that nice of her to tell us she could have had a social life, stayed home baked cookies and had tea???

[Ninga]

72. ...

[Ninga]

73. .......................

[Forkboy]

77. I have to be honest. The only people I've heard pushing that story back then was RWers.

It was bullshit when they pushed this meme, and it's bullshit when you push this meme.

[Ninga]

81. The question is not what I am pushing. The question was, why do people dislike Hillary.

It may have been bullshit to you in 1992, but damn it, her words started a firestorm that made it hard on the Democrats for the next years.

The Democrats LOST GOVERNORSHIPS AND SENATE SEATS AND CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS in 1996 by the boat load. Why? Because of the perception with the voters that was fueled by the GOP but both of the Clinton's fed the GOP with gas that gave them the fuel.

Why? Because of a mindless meme? Or because Hillary and her opinions and her private closed door health care attempt, were like fingernails on a blackboard...

[berni_mccoy]

79. She couldn't "JUST stay home and BAKE COOKIES" (Hillary's own words)

She does not value the stay-at-home Moms who actually have it tougher now than ever.

[mtnsnake]

87. The Goddess of Peace is more of an inspiration to women than any other figure, so enough w/the bull

It's easy to understand why so many women and girls of all ages respect her so much, with the exception of the .0000000000000000000000000000000001% of the population that frequents DU who are jealous of her.

[bigtree]

90. hoo boy

traditional women :rofl: