If there is ANY question that Hillary's tactics have been worse than the rethugs...

[yourguide]

From this morning's MTP: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24338217/page/7/

*Alex Castellanos is a prominent rethug strategist.


MR. RUSSERT: Alex Castellanos, the Republican strategist, was on TV the other night and said this: "Clinton's running the ads Republicans would love to be running so--now, so we don't have to because Hillary Clinton is doing it. Yes, it could--would be hard for a Republican to run an ad with Osama bin Laden in it. Not so much now because Hillary has already done it against Obama.

"It would be difficult for a Republican to run an ad questioning does Barack Obama have the strength of character to lead the country. Well, not so much now because Hillary has already done it."

Is that a Republican sort of protecting his flank, getting ready for a rollout, or has Hillary Clinton's attacks on Obama paved the way for McCain if Obama becomes the nominee?

MS. MITCHELL: She's written the playbook for John McCain. They've done all the opposition research. I think that Obama has also had some self-inflicted wounds, notably in San Francisco, the bitter comment, which just didn't play right, and I--you know, obviously I don't think he's handled Jeremiah Wright, we can talk about that. I don't think he anticipated the impact of that and the way it would be perceived out of context or in context. But Hillary Clinton has laid out a road map for the Republicans, and that is one of the Obama arguments. The Obama supporters are arguing that she is destroying him, even if he is the nominee, and he is the presumptive nominee and the front-runner, certainly.

[Jade Fox]

1. Blah, blah, blah.......

[yourguide]

2. When you have a republican strategist saying...

we couldnt have run an ad with Osama Bin Laden, but now we can because HRC has paved the road I think it's quite clear who is running a below the belt campaign.

[KoKo]

28. It's typical Repug Campaign Op disinformation. Don't be mislead by it because

whatever ads Hillary Campaign has run will be NOTHING compared to what Repugs will run against Obama. Already Faux news is boasting this a.m. that they are "following Reverend Wright" around the country and are ready to "break in" when there's upcoming news about him.

You ain't seen nuthin' yet. It's what Repugs do...they are Junk Yard Dogs.

[cliffordu]

9. I'm glad you can quote your girl so well.

[Jade Fox]

14. I'm an Obama supporter.

Sorry to disappoint you.

[cliffordu]

15. Sorry - I misunderstood your post.

:hi:

[Jade Fox]

21. You probably did understand it.....

I'm tired of these posts that insist Hilary is the devil incarnate.

[yourguide]

23. So you think featuring Osama Bin Laden in

a campaign ad against a fellow dem is ok?

blah blah blah yourself.

[Jade Fox]

27. You specifically said she's worse than the Republicans....

I'd say that ad makes Clinton on par with them. It's your hysteria that makes her "worse".

[yourguide]

31. Considering the fact that the rethugs said

they would be hard pressed to run that ad and HRC did, I think it's clear who is at least as bad if not worse.

There's no hysteria here, I'm not calling on the board for everyone to crash the HRC web site, call the media, or call the DNC. Just reminding people what's what.

[Jade Fox]

32. You choose Republicans to....

validate your stance? Interesting.

[yourguide]

34. Oh stop...

Many here have that stance...it's ignored when dems say it, it's ignored when analysts say it, and now when even the beneficiary of these shady tactics also say the same thing there is still something wrong with saying it.

It's worse that a republican doing it. HRC and Obama are on the same team. You dont tear down your team mate, you can be competitive without below the belt punches.

[Rageneau]

44. How the hell can you say what you say and yet add that photo to your every post.

You are doing the very same thing you are complaining that Hillary is doing when you include an insulting photograph of her with every post. Same thing for the Obamanians who throw libels and slanders such as 'liar, two-faced, dishonest, and all the rest at her. You get back what you put out.

Obama supporters right here on this board are at least 20 times mores vicious and nasty and divisive to the Party with the things they post here -- the false accusations and dirty innuendoes they bring to DU at least ten times every hour -- than ANYTHING the Hillary Campaign has ever said.

If the Obama people want a nice clean campaign, it is up to them to start a new one to replace the one they've been running since they falsely called the Clintons 'racists' back in Iowa. They should learn that they cannot treat Hillary with disrespect and disdain without generating the same emotions among her supporters toward Obama.

So if you want to elevate the level of this campaign, a good start would be to start treating Hillary with the respect she deserves as woman and human being, and that she has earned as a Senator and First Lady. Dump that insulting photo of her that obviously gives you so much childish pleasure to keep posting here.

Get the log out of your own eye before you clean the mote out of Hillary's

[yourguide]

52. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

I have explained multiple times why that photo is up and when it will come down.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. yawn. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[goclark]

46. To be on par is to lay down with fleas.

[eridani]

62. No, what makes it worse is that it's FAR more damaging when Dems use

--Rethug framing than when Rethugs do it.

[cliffordu]

26. I don't think she is the devil incarnate,

I DO however think she's a second stringer that wouldn't even be here if her husband hadn't been President. Further, she wouldn't have been able to curry enough favor to gain her Senate seat if it wasn't for Bill and his little friends.

She got no game. Nada.

[Jade Fox]

29. I agree with what you say here.

But when someone goes on about how Clinton is worse than the Republicans, rationality has gone out the window.

Clinton's voting record is actually fairly good (with some glaring exceptions). Her presidential bid has been a sad travesty all around, but no one is coming out of this election year looking like an angel

[TexasObserver]

38. She's Satan's spawn.

More like devil, jr. than devil incarnate.

I judge her by her words and actions, and they're not the words or actions of any Democrat to run for president - except George Wallace - the past 50 years.

[Cheap_Trick]

49. you'd be crying bloody murder

if Obama ran those repugnant ads against the queen.

[Evergreen Emerald]

3. The right wing media headed by Timmy who is known for his bias

against Clinton is a load of bull. Of course the right-wing says that. They want Obama to run against McCain. And they will do anything to take Clinton down.

[yourguide]

4. Right...

so these tactics are OK so say you... blind blind blind.

[Evergreen Emerald]

11. what? the media tactics are well known to everyone.

you just have to learn to take them for who they are: propaganda.

I would love some specifics about what Clinton is doing. Of course you won't get any.
Clinton is allowed to run her campaign including ads against obama.

I am curious: were you complaining when Obama used the right-wing ads against the healthcare plan? Because, although he used that right-wing tactic against Clinton to win--he likely destroyed the possibility of a change in our healthcare system because of his right-wing lies. Did you complain then?

Or do you only complain about campaign tactics when Clinton does it?

What a bunch of double standard hypocrisy.

[yourguide]

13. Are you nuts?

Suggestion McCain is experienced to be president and Obama isn't.

Pushing that bullshit turban photo out to the media.

Trying to connect Obama to Farrakhan and Hamas during the last debate when she knows it's bullshit.

"Shame on you Barack Obama" after sending out her own negative mailers.

Not a muslim "as far as I know".

We could go on and on and on but why bother.

When polling was done, 67% percent of voters said they felt Clinton was unfair and negative in her attacks.

[Evergreen Emerald]

39. No. Are you?

Suggestion McCain is experienced to be president and Obama isn't. Ummm...it is true. I do not see that as negative campaigning any more than Obama suggesting that the republicans did a better job than Clinton did as President.

Pushing that bullshit turban photo out to the media: it was proven that Clinton did not put it out there. But, don't let the facts get in the way af a hate fest. Further, it was a political visit and he dressed in the garb. HE is the one that visited the place.

Trying to connect Obama to Farrakhan and Hamas during the last debate when she knows it's bullshit. So, it is ok with Obama to connect Clinton with Lobbyists, "Pinjab," to send letters to the media asking why they are not airing stories on Clinton's infedility but to comment on the truth--that is off base?

"Shame on you Barack Obama" after sending out her own negative mailers. Come on. Obama has been doing the very same thing: suggesting that Clinton is sending out negative mailers. You are really reaching.

Not a muslim "as far as I know". Again. You have taken Clinton out of context. I saw the interview. Of course anything Clinton does is dissected and attacked. You are off base to suggest that her response was anything but appropriate.

We could go on and on and on but why bother. Exactly. Don't bother. YOur load of crap is nothing more than distortions or worse: political stuff that BOTH SIDES ARE DOING.

Oh brother.

When polling was done, 67% percent of voters said they felt Clinton was unfair and negative in her attacks.

[yourguide]

43. Good, since this is all fair game to you...

Then Vince Foster, Monica Lewinsky, and all of the other garbage/baggage on the HRC side is fair game as well. Would hate to see you whining about it when those are brought up. THAT would be hypocritical.

[Evergreen Emerald]

45. Actually, Obama attempted to get the media to re-play those stories

as well via e-mail. I think the public has had enough...but go for it. If you think the right-wing talking points are more valid than Obama's lobbyist ties or his lies about his healthcare plan have at it...

The media declined to take him up on that offer.

[ClassWarrior]

47. Link?

NGU.

[Evergreen Emerald]

48. I do not know what that means.

NGU.

Link: really? Where the hell have you been that you can post crap daily about Clinton and you don't even know what your candidate is doing? Shouldn't you be more informed before you spew shit?

[ClassWarrior]

50. Asking for a link is "spewing shit?"

:shrug:

NGU.

[Evergreen Emerald]

51. No you misunderstand

Asking for a link after posts and posts of Clinton bashing indicates a lack of knowledge about the candidate you support. When Clinton bashing, I believe one should be informed about the doings of their own candidate, or not be bashing Clinton. Hypocrisy is then too easily exposed.

[ClassWarrior]

53. I didn't bash anyone. I asked for a link.

:shrug:

NGU.

[yourguide]

55. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...

Go back and listen to the campaign conference calls at 2008central.net

You'll see which campaign has been hypocrites, changing the rules, and spreading garbage.

Lobbyist ties my ass.

[Evergreen Emerald]

57. you give yourself away as one with no credibilty.

[yourguide]

58. I just sent you to a site with ALL of the campaign conference calls

so you could hear for yourself all of the garbage.

Your genius retort? I have no credibility sending you to a site where you can her first hand the garbage your candidtates campaign is spewing.

Brilliant, no good with logic and no good with math I see.

[Evergreen Emerald]

59. I see no spot where e-mails sent to the media are posted

I do know that it has been a story on a number of occasions in the past. I cannot and do not believe that you have not seen it.

PIck and choose your outrage = no credibility.

[yourguide]

60. I sure have...including that headline on drudge

that had the HRC camp pushing the turban photo via email.

You pick and choose your facts, YOU have no credibility.

Go and listen to the campaign calls and hear for yourself before being so dismissive. Use your brain.

[KaptBunnyPants]

17. The sky is green on your planet ,isn't it?

The right wing machine is in full force behind Hillary, and she has welcomed their support. But you don't care, because you hate Obama more than you love your fellow man. And so you carry on, attacking your former friends, burning the fields to the ground as you pass and pouring salt on the barren Earth behind you.

[Skip Intro]

5. Bullshit. Obama began his campaign by questioning Hillary's character.

The hypocritical bullshit around here sometimes... :eyes:

[yourguide]

6. Timeline? Link?

I call bullshit on that.

[ClassWarrior]

7. Link?

Probably not, but hope springs eternal.

NGU.

[cliffordu]

18. I'm not even running and I question her "character"

[otohara]

25. How Dare He Question

are you kidding?

[nebula]

8. Not surprising

when you have a piece of turd running your campaign.

[cliffordu]

19. Thanks. I was trying to eat. The turd I can handle but that picture of

that tub of guts really fucked me up....

[AquarianRealm62]

56. Definitely

[mmonk]

10. Good post. I would say the same. They were worried I think

there could be a blacklash if they did. They feel more comfortable now going that route.

[cbayer]

12. Well, if Alex Castellanos and Andrea Mitchell say it, it must be true.

:wtf:

[yourguide]

20. If you have a republican strategist

saying she crossed a bridge they would have had a hard time crossing, and now that she has crossed it she paved the way for them to do so, it seems to echo the sentiments of many on this board.

[cbayer]

22. If you have a republican strategist saying anything,

they are doing it to strategically help the republicans. The fact that people here in the echo chamber would allow themselves to be used by said strategist is simply stunning.

[yourguide]

24. The other way around...

we said it here before he said it on air.

The truth and fact of the matter is she is using rethug tactics on a fellow dem. Plain and simple.

[cbayer]

33. Right, it was a thought first had by some brilliant DU poster

that has been picked up by a top republican strategist.

The media, and particularly the RW media, has played this primary extraordinarily well. She is using political maneuvers to try and win a contest, just like Obama is doing. This campaign has not been particularly dirty on either side.

You tell me. How does one run against someone in a very tight race and not highlight their weaknesses? There is nothing "rethug" about that. It happens all the time when there is an inter-party race. When Obama calls Clinton out, is that rethug?

Every time she lands a punch, the pitiful cries of "Rovian" and "RW tactic" can be heard. I say bullshit. It's just politics as usual. Both of our candidates are playing hard and playing well. That's why this is not over. The hate spewed by some of their supporters is the work of the RW, IMO, and not the candidates themselves.

[yourguide]

35. Oh stop

Many here have that stance...it's dismissed by HRC supporters when dems say it, it's dismissed by HRC supporters when analysts say it, and now when even the beneficiary of these shady tactics also say the same thing there is still something wrong with saying it.

It's worse that a republican doing it. HRC and Obama are on the same team. You dont tear down your team mate, you can be competitive without below the belt punches.

Pushing turban photos out to the media to instigate fear - rovian

Attempting to link Obama to Farrakhan and Hamas at the last debate - rovian.

The list goes on and on...it's why the NY Times wrote the "Low Road to Victory", it's why 67% of voters feel that HRC has unfairly attacked Obama.

[cbayer]

36. Ok, I will stop because this will become circular very quickly.

I just want to say this. As someone who truly sees both candidates favorably, I often have a very different perspective than almost anyone else posting here. I am used to that. I see very little difference in these two campaigns. Both have been effective and both have made mistakes. It they weren't both playing the game really well, this would not be a virtual dead heat (you can disagree, but I won't argue over that point). A woman with very high negatives against a black man who had very little name recognition engaged in the most heated primary in a long, long time. Kind of inspiring.

Peace - I will agree to disagree if you will.

[yourguide]

40. Peace and love...

let's agree to disagree.

xoxoxoxoxox.

[cbayer]

41. That, my friend, made me smile!

xoxoxoxoxo back

catch you in the next thread.

[yourguide]

42. cool.

[Buzz Clik]

16. I don't care if they are worse or not; the fact that she has used similar tactics is unconscionable.

And, that was the single reason why I switched to Obama.

[QC]

30. OMG! GOP strategists never spin anything! Esp. in front of Mrs. Greenspan!

Do you honestly think that the people who gave the world Willie Horton and purple heart Band-Aids and made Max Cleland into bin Laden's mole in the Senate will have the slightest compunction about saying mean things about Obama?

We are in for the ugliest campaign in history. By August, Hillary's worst will seem like a love-nibble.

[TexasObserver]

37. Hillary is using the same tactics and memes Bush would use.

She's a DLC DINO.

[stillcool]

54. Yes she is...

and she will continue to do so. As far as her destroying Obama...so far..no good. She is going to have to get more outrageous and the boomerang will be more damaging. If she destroys Obama, she destroys herself, and she destroys the Party.

[ccharles000]

61. Hillary has played fair.

Whatever happens I will always love her.