[CLINTON SUPPORTERS] - I Need Affirmation. How was PA a "Big Victory" again?

[quantass]

In all seriousness, can you please explain to me how the PA victory for Clinton was a big win for her. Wasn't Obama guaranteed to loose that state considering their openly ethnic views (similar to Ohio but without the whole NAFTA memo "wink nod" distortion -- Those sly Clintons but hats off, do what you have to do) and Clinton being raised there? The initial polls had Clinton leading by +26 points reflecting this.

Over the course of 6 weeks Obama was able to chop the sizeable lead down to a 9 point victory by Clinton (a 17 point loss in that state). In the end i believe she garnered +10 delegates leaving her behind by 156 pledged delegates. According to MSNBC's Chuck Todd (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cyQynd-5nI) with Hillary's PA "victory" she now has a bigger uphill climb requiring 80%+ of the remaining pledged delegates just to equal him.

As far as i know the democratic primaries are based upon delegates since its inception, so what am i missing? How was PA a "big victory" if she only won by 9pts. Through my eyes (i believe im looking at this very critically) having loss my lead by 17pts in my favored state to a point that my delegate gain is inconsequential seems like a huge blunder to me.

Your thoughts.

[Xenotime]

1. PA was big because the media didn't think she had a chance..

AND they were even rigging the exit polls to look like Obama had the lead.

[anonymous171]

2. She was always in the lead.

The media was making it look like Obama had a chance, even though his campaign had said he would lose.

[VolcanoJen]

3. The exit polls showed Hillary up by four points over Obama.

:shrug:

[lisa58]

10. what media do you watch?

[helderheid]

11. !

:rofl:

DUzy!!

[Exilednight]

18. I never saw a single exit poll that showed Obama in the lead. Watch less Fox and more MSNBC or CNN.

[Political Heretic]

47. Are you high?

There was not ONE SINGLE MSM source that predicted an Obama win.

[goldcanyonaz]

4. Because PA is a state we need to win in November....

What is so hard to understand about that?

[lisa58]

7. She did have the entire state machine behind her...

...if she loses the nomination, Obama will have the same machine behind him and Rendell says Obama will win PA.

[ClassWarrior]

8. So the Dems drew FIVE TIMES the number of voters as the Rape-Publicans in PA.

How could we lose it? (Barring, of course, the Tonya Harding Strategy?)

NGU.

[MercutioATC]

16. Because the Repubs already have a nominee.

There are a lot of people who would vote for McCain in the GE that stayed home for the primary because he's already their nominee.

Again, primary election results are NOT even remotely an indication of GE results.

[lisa58]

21. but, voter registration is up for the dems...

...they now have more registered voters in PA than the republicans

[MercutioATC]

28. Agreed, and that's a plus. I'm just cautioning against using vote totals

to make the argument that since more Dems voted in the primary, more Dems will vote in the GE.

[ClassWarrior]

32. Short-term memory problems? We've drawn those margins consistently...

...even when Mittens and Huckleberry were in the race.

NGU.

[MercutioATC]

36. I'll concede my point if GE voting in PA has such a wide discrepency.

I don't believe it will.

[cliffordu]

31. OMFG!!! Tonya Harding???!!!!?!?!?!

Gawd, I just LOVE this photograph...it is sooooo perfect in it's pathology.....

[anonymous171]

12. And only democrats vote in the GE, right?

Closed primaries are even less representative for GE results than open ones.

[MercutioATC]

13. Primary wins have absolutely nothing to do with the general election.

Why do Clinton supporters keep saying that "we need to win these states in November" when a Clinton or Obama win in any given state does NOT mean that they'll win that state in November and it does NOT mean that their opponent wouldn't win that state.

It's faulty logic. Why do people take it seriously?

[Yossariant]

37. Why do Obama fans NOT understand that there are states the Democrats NEED to win to take the WH?

Obama 243, McCain 269
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Obama/Maps/Apr27.html


Clinton 291, McCain 237
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Clinton/Maps/Apr27.html

[anonymous171]

38. Only democrats vote in closed primaries.

[Yossariant]

39. The general election is not a caucus.

[anonymous171]

40. Neither is it a closed primary.

[Yossariant]

41. Indeed. That's why my link shows Clinton kicking some McCain butt and Obama losing the general.

[anonymous171]

42. No and here's why

[Yossariant]

43. Yes and here's why:

GOD DAMN AMERICA!

[anonymous171]

44. Bill may be her biggest ally in the primary,

but he will be her biggest liability in the GE.

[Yossariant]

45. The voters know about Lewinsky, yet Clinton wins handily and Obama loses to McCain.

And "GOD DAMN AMERICA" has just begun.

God Damn America,
Land that I love.
Stand beside her, and guide her
Thru the night with a light from above.
From the mountains, to the prairies,
To the oceans, white with foam
God damn America, My home sweet home.

[RBInMaine]

15. You continue to cling to the fantasy that Primary = General Election. A CHILD could get the

difference. HillFOLKS say that since she won OH and PA, she'll win them in the fall. PROBLEM is that this was just the primary. John McCain also won his primary there. Does that mean HE will win ??????? Just because she won PA and OH in the PRIMARY doesn't mean Obama will fare worse there in the GENERAL ELECTION. Most D's will vote for the D in the GE whether it's Obama or Clinton.
She also won the TX primary election (though by a small margine and she LOST the caucus piece and thus LOST the overall delegate count there which HillFANS never admit). This DOES NOT mean she beat McCain in TX in the general election, nor that Obama would do worse than her in the GE. HillFANS are trying to compare apples to oranges in order to spin spin spin for Hillary SPINton.

[ClassWarrior]

5. And the margin of delegates she needs to win the nomination GREW.

NGU.

[lisa58]

6. It's a victory - don't know how big - because...

...she gets to stay in the race and keep the SD's from endorsing.

[ima_sinnic]

22. SD's were not "kept from endorsing," some endorsed Obama the very next day

.. the more Hillary opens her mouth and starts with the negative spew, the more SD's (& major funders) she bleeds.

[lisa58]

25. I agree completely...

...I just think more SD's would have endorsed if there was a smaller margin of victory. She scored a PR win with the press and I imagine some uncommitted SD's are watching and waiting.

[Yossariant]

9. He WAS the frontrunner and outspent her nearly 3 to 1 and he LOST.

You're not looking for "affirmation."

You're presenting excuses. Losers need excuses. Winners don't.

Try this excuse: Barack Obama is an empty suit who gives a great speech and the impressionable love the Obamalade.

[yourguide]

14. he was NEVER the frontrunner in PA

She was up by as much as 26%. Sorry Charlie.

[dailykoff]

17. And he's still the presumptive nominee. Clinton cannot win

barring unforeseen acts of Providence. She's simply a spoiler.

[Yossariant]

27. Obama can't win barring unforeseen acts of providence.

He's simply a spoiler.

[MercutioATC]

30. Now you're just being silly. Under what scenario could Clinton win?

...one that doesn't involve time machines or mind-control devices...

[Yossariant]

33. Is that a joke post?

Clinton can win under the precise scenario that Barack can win.

PRECISE, EXACT AND SAME SCENARIO.

[MercutioATC]

35. You're either a loon or one of these new "We think we're clever because we make sarcastic posts"

people.

Frankly, I have no use for either.

[yourguide]

48. Yes, and that scenario is she has to get 70% of the remaining votes

good luck with that!

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[Yossariant]

19. Sounds like another EXCUSE to me.

:rofl:

I didn't say he was the frontrunner IN PA.

[yourguide]

23. So what's your excuse for not wrapping this up on super tuesday?

She had a 30 point lead in the national polls leading into Iowa, she came in 3rd.

It's you guys with all of the excuses as to why she is behind.

[Yossariant]

24. So what's your excuse for "God damn America?" Are you trying to change the subject here?

Shocker!

:eyes:

[yourguide]

29. Huh?

If you had a brain in your head and watched the Moyers interview you'd see how completely out of context that was.

However let's get back to the presumptive frontrunner argument. How do you explain her massive fail on super tuesday and prior?

[dailykoff]

20. It was a PR victory, period.

It makes the question of how to end the Clinton horror show a little more unpleasant, but make no mistake, it will happen soon.

[RBInMaine]

26. She also won the TX primary (but not the caucus part). So will she beat McCain in TX?????

See how flawed the HillFAN logic is. It's just so numb.

[Yossariant]

34. Will Barack beat McCain in South Carolina?

:rofl:

[Pisces]

46. That's how Clinton wanted to spin it so that's why it's big.