If Obama is somehow to blame for the past words and deeds of people like Wright and Ayers etc...

[TLM]

Then isn't hillary to blame for the words and actions of Bill?

After all Bill is part of her campaign.... and her co-president. She hasn't rejected or disavowed his words or deeds. In fact she defended them

So when the RW slime machine hits he with lewinski, jones, willy, and ask her how she can ask women to support her when she openly supports an admitted sexual harasser and an accused sexual abuser and rapist. Will her followers all call her chicken or say get out of the kitchen if you can't take the heat? Or will they change their tune and say that such slime and guilt by association has no place in a campaign?

I mean if Hill wants to make an issue of things that took place when obama was 8 years old.... why not apply the same standards to Hill and Bill and things that happened when they were both adults?

Even assuming jones and willy and all the others were lies made up by Scaife... we know Lewinsky happened.

How do feminist hillary supporters, reconcile this clear act of sexual harassment by an employer to an employee perpetrated by Bill? I hear them whining on DU about the evil rampant sexism in this campaign... yet Hillary has openly supported Bill and continues to have him as a top level figure in her campaign.

Why do feminist give her a pass on this...

[MethuenProgressive]

1. Please stop posting RW crap on DU.

[DerekJ]

3. ...

[mattclearing]

43. It just boggles the mind, doesn't it? n/t

[MercutioATC]

4. In light of the Clinton supporters' accusations here at DU, it's a valid question.

Let he who is without sin...

[pocoloco]

LOL

Bill left a bad taste in a lot of Dem's mouths, including Monica's!

[yourguide]

10. You mean RW crap like this?

Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

Obama Camp caught lying about Pastor Wright - again.
Topic started by MethuenProgressive on Apr-26-08 09:36 PM (64 replies)

The Obama Magic 8 Ball to attend all future debates?
Topic started by MethuenProgressive on Apr-18-08 06:02 PM (68 replies)

Desperate Obama seeks non-PA voters to help bail him out in PA
Topic started by MethuenProgressive on Apr-17-08 01:11 PM (22 replies)

Obama's condescending sneer of small town PA learned at Pastor Wright's knee.
Topic started by MethuenProgressive on Apr-12-08 03:33 PM (88 replies)

Hillary rebuts Obama's personal attacks, Obama plants in crowd embarass Obama.
Topic started by MethuenProgressive on Apr-14-08 04:47 PM (62 replies)

When confronted with dangerous and aggressive Republicans will Nominee BHO cry "racism"?
Topic started by MethuenProgressive on Apr-08-08 06:30 PM (117 replies)

Yes, Obama apologized for Swiftboating the Clintons, but only after being caught.
Topic started by MethuenProgressive on Apr-02-08 03:48 PM (166 replies)

Obama changes tactic: Now starts lying about McCain instead of Clinton
Topic started by MethuenProgressive on Apr-03-08 12:53 PM (155 replies)

[TLM]

20. Exactly... they can dish it out..... but they can't take it. n/t

[yourguide]

26. Yup, suddenly methuen goes missing...

shocker :sarcasm:

[Name removed]

42. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Forkboy]

45. LOL....that's gonna leave a mark.

MP is among the biggest offenders on DU, and the hypocrisy on display is laughable.

[panader0]

11. I think this is respose to right wing crap

[TLM]

15. If you can't take the heat... follow Hill's advice and get out of the kitchen.

She's been defending her attacks on Obama saying that's what the right wing will do... and Obama has taken the high road.


I'm not taking the high road.... I'm applying Hillary's slime standard to her.

[guyanakoolaid]

36. Yep. You want to put the "this is what the Republicans will use strategy" on the table, well then...

<insert google result of "hillary clinton controversy" here>

It's a dangerous door to open, they know that Obama is too much of a gentleman to walk through it. Yet they continue pushing Wright to superdelegates while the other side of the mouth is calling Obama a race-baiter. They attack him while accusing him of attacking, throwing the kitchen sink at him while pointing at their bruises.

I really hope for their sake they realize the damage they are doing to their reputations and end it soon.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cliffordu]

61. Aw, come on, don't take it so hard...

[anonymous171]

2. Feminists that support HRC, only give her a pass because they really want a woman in the WH

They don't even care that she's a war hawk. They just want a woman. Nothing wrong with that, just sayin' :shrug:

Of course, they don't mind insulting Michelle Obama.

[JI7]

6. personally i see Obama as a feminist

a man who recognizes the strengths of women and doesn't think it's all about the bs tough boy act of men who are really cowards like Bush.

[cbayer]

8. C'mon Anon. That's just not true.

Most feminists that support Clinton do so because they see her as the best candidate. The fact that she is a woman is lagniappe. This holds true for most AA's who support Obama, IMO.

She is not a war hawk. Her foreign policy is so similar to Obama that you can't see any light between them.

Most Clinton supporters would never dream of insulting Michelle Obama.

You have just taken a bunch of unsubstantiated talking points and jammed them into a response.

My observation is that you are better than this. If you are referring to a small group of DU posters, then say so.

This OP is flamebait and is entirely based on RW garbage. I would hope that you would refrain from jumping on.

[anonymous171]

16. Alright, I'll agree with you on that one.

But I can't really take it when certain HRC supporters who say that "Women need to stick together" decide that it's OK to attack Obama's spouse. But yeah, my post was a bit...much.

[cbayer]

22. See, I knew it!

What I have noticed is that it takes very little to bring out the best in you. You should ask yourself, what would Obama do? I know you admire him, as you should. When you sound like him, it is admirable. I even seen you take some unpopular positions.

There are people here who are baiting us. Let's not let them win.

:toast:

[TLM]

24. WHat RW garbage? Lewinsky is RW garbage?

It shows unarguably how Bill treats those under his employ. It happened, he admitted it, it is a fact.


And hill actively sought the support of Scaife, the man who funded the search for this garbage.

So why is it somehow unfair to attack Hill in the same style she's been attacking Obama?

[Butch350]

29. C'mon Anon. That's just not true.

1. She voted for the war with GB.
2. She'd nuke Iran.

Yep - if I needed to vote for someone who'd bring people together - OMG Hillary is the first to come to mind.

You can do Hillary a favor by sending her some money - she needs to pay her stock piling bills.

If she can't manage a good campaign fight - how can she manage the country?

The clintons are all smoke and mirrors.

[TLM]

18. Exactly... i see so called feminists screaming about Obama saying sweetie...

Yet Bill sexually harassing his subordinate employee is perfectly fine.

Bill lying about sexually harassing his subordinate employee is also perfectly fine.


I've seen posts on DU accusing the most mundane things or comments of being the hight of sexism... and page after page about the evils of sexual harassment in the workplace and hostile environments etc.

Yet f-ing your intern's mouth while you pound a cigar into her vag, is perfectly acceptable workplace behavior and they are happy to have Bill campaigning for Hillary.

[Skittles]

5. you could not me more right wing if you tried

THEY'RE BOTH BEING SWIFT-BOATED - stop sounding like a FUCKING FREEPER

[Exilednight]

9. I'll put down my hammer when Hillary puts down hers. n/t

[Skittles]

13. LOL

:rofl: you poor thang

[Exilednight]

17. Skittles, stop acting like a rainbow of flavors. You might be the most colorful, but your not......

the brightest.

[TLM]

19. Wow looks like Hillary followers can't take the heat....

Just a hint of her own slime slung back her and they freak out.


Maybe they should follow her instructions and get out of the kitchen?

[JI7]

7. the Clintons are friends with Scaife now

i don't think she really cared about what he did with other women.

[Hansel]

12. You can pick your pastor, but you can't pick your husb...Oh wait, nevermind. nt

[Usrename]

37. lol

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Yossariant]

14. Excellent post! Obama should make that argument to the voters.

:rofl:

Hard to believe he didn't think of it himself!

:rofl:

[TLM]

30. No he shouldn't.... he is taking the high road and he should stay on that road....

I however have no such requirement and can attack hill with the same low road style she uses on Obama.

[2rth2pwr]

21. Why don't you ask her? She will answer any question directed to her.

You can ask the moderators at the next debate to bring it up. What's the big deal?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

23. Yeah, she answered the hell out of this question:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGeQ6dxGMFA

:eyes:

[2rth2pwr]

27. And then people can make up their own minds. Obama is playing prevent defense.

That's no way to win. No way to earn a nomination.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

31. Did you forget this?

[Tellurian]

49. Tweety, an Obama supporter, calling him Fred Astaire for dancing around all the tough issues..

and strangely calling Hillary a "fighter".. which is SOOOO apropos!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

25. basically Wright and Ayers had nothing to do with Obama's candidacy

Nobody speaks of hillary's brothers for instance

[QC]

28. It used to be that one had to go to Free Republic

to keep up with the latest doings of Bill Clinton's Wayward Pecker.

Now we can get all the Clenis chat we can stand right here at DU.

Is this that change we've been hearing about?

[TLM]

32. Funny how just a small taste of the same style Hill uses to attack Obama, being used on her....

and her followers cry foul and scream that the attacks are right wing slime and have no place on DU.... then they go post 10 pages on how Obama is somehow responsible for the Weather Underground blowing shit up when he was 8 years old.

Or the new meme.... he has the wrong kind of hair.

[QC]

33. I'm not one of Hillary's supporters, just a loyal DUer tired of seeing

people striving mightily to make this place into Free Republic.

If you want my opinion of the candidates, they are both timid corporate centrists who would sooner jump into the volcano than offend a monied interest. Only a fool would think that either one of them is progressive or that this campaign has even started to get rough yet.

[rainbow4321]

34. Oh, we've only seen the tip of HRC's iceberg

I just picked a few out of the list...the ones we have heard little about:


http://prorev.com/2008/01/so-you-want-to-talk-about-obamas-pals.html


JOSE CARBRERA
Hillary Rodham Clinton's Senate campaign returned $22,000 in "soft money" to a businesswoman linked to a Democratic campaign contribution from a drug smuggler in Havana. The donation by Vivian Mannerud Verble was the largest single contribution received by Clinton's soft-money committee. Verble, whose company runs charter flights between Cuba and Miami, also served as the fund-raising intermediary between Jorge Cabrera and the Democratic National Committee in 1995, according to congressional investigators. The probers reportedly learned that Cabrera cut a $20,000 check to the DNC from a bank account in which he also kept profits from his lucrative cocaine trade. The DNC eventually returned the money, while Cabrera pleaded guilty to importing 6,000 pounds of cocaine into the United States. He is serving a 19-year federal prison sentence in Florida . . . Although Verble was never charged with any criminal wrongdoing, she was at the center of one of the most embarrassing fund-raising scandals in the Clinton administration.


VINA GUPTA

The frontrunner for the Democrats in the 2008 presidential election, Hillary Clinton, has been hit by a legal dispute in which one of her fundraisers is accused of trying to "ingratiate" himself with powerful friends at the expense of his company. The row has revived accusations of the influence peddling and favors for donors that marred Bill Clinton's presidency in the 1990s. For years the Clintons flew on Vinod Gupta's corporate plane, introduced him to world leaders - including Tony Blair - and received donations for their political campaigns and charitable foundations. They relaxed at his holiday home in Hawaii - next door to Pierce Brosnan, the former James Bond star - and jetted to Acapulco, the Mexican resort, while Gupta once spent the night as a favored guest in the Lincoln bedroom at the White House. . . The lawsuit, by company shareholders, accuses Gupta of squandering millions of dollars on his high-profile friends, including $900,000 worth of travel on the Clintons. - Times, UK



ABDUL REHMAN JINNAH

A Pakistani immigrant is wanted by federal authorities on charges he channeled $30,000 in illegal contributions to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's presidential war chest. The FBI is hunting Los Angeles businessman Abdul Rehman Jinnah, who vanished soon after his grand-jury indictment for violating federal election laws last May. Clinton's camp has denied any knowledge of Jinnah's scheme, which is also alleged to have funneled more than $50,000 in illegal donations to the political action committees of Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.), the Los Angeles Times reported yesterday.



KEITH RANIERE


A purported pyramid-scheme operator . . . has reinvented himself as the head of an upstate group accused of being a "cult" - and his devotees have pumped thousands into Hillary Rodham Clinton's presidential run. Executives and top associates of the Albany-based NXIVM group - along with their family members - donated $29,900 to Clinton's presidential campaign, according to federal records. On March 14 and April 13, records show, more than a dozen contributions poured into Clinton's coffers from NXIVM, an executive and group-awareness training organization led by Brooklyn-born Keith Raniere, 47. . .In his previous incarnation, the Svengali-like Raniere ran a $30 million multilevel marketing business that imploded after federal agencies and regulators in 23 states alleged it was an illegal pyramid scheme

[DemBones DemBones]

35. Obama's iceberg is a lot bigger because nobody in the MSM has

bothered to check him out. It's astounding. Hillary has been under attack for more than 24 years, first in Arkansas, then in D.C., but the media have rolled over like little puppies for Obama.

In the last debate, the moderators actually asked him some questions that he couldn't weasel out of instead of just
feeding him softball questions -- and all the Obama world wanted to burn down ABC News.

[FlaGranny]

38. Tell me DemBones

why don't you wear a flag pin? Don't you love America?

[EFerrari]

40. Oooh, yeah. They asked him about TIE PINS. They asked if a Marine

WAS PATRIOTIC. Questions CRUCIAL to the wellbeing of the nation.

lol

[stillcool]

41. Those were "American People"

that pushed back against ABC.

[stillcool]

39. Looks like Hillary is responsbile for..

a lot more than that. Reverend Wright is a pastor. Bill Clinton is her husband, and the source of her experience. She should defend what the members of her own prayer group have had to say, they being Public Figures,.. but we know that's not going to happen.

Clinton's prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or "the Family"), a network of sex-segregated cells of political, business, and military leaders dedicated to "spiritual war" on behalf of Christ, many of them recruited at the Fellowship's only public event, the annual National Prayer Breakfast. (Aside from the breakfast, the group has "made a fetish of being invisible," former Republican Senator William Armstrong has said.) The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God's plan.

------------
The Fellowship's long-term goal is "a leadership led by God—leaders of all levels of society who direct projects as they are led by the spirit." According to the Fellowship's archives, the spirit has in the past led its members in Congress to increase U.S. support for the Duvalier regime in Haiti and the Park dictatorship in South Korea. The Fellowship's God-led men have also included General Suharto of Indonesia; Honduran general and death squad organizer Gustavo Alvarez Martinez; a Deutsche Bank official disgraced by financial ties to Hitler; and dictator Siad Barre of Somalia, plus a list of other generals and dictators. Clinton, says Schenck, has become a regular visitor to Coe's Arlington, Virginia, headquarters, a former convent where Coe provides members of Congress with sex-segregated housing and spiritual guidance.

------------------------------

These days, Clinton has graduated from the political wives' group into what may be Coe's most elite cell, the weekly Senate Prayer Breakfast. Though weighted Republican, the breakfast—regularly attended by about 40 members—is a bipartisan opportunity for politicians to burnish their reputations, giving Clinton the chance to profess her faith with men such as Brownback as well as the twin terrors of Oklahoma, James Inhofe and Tom Coburn, and, until recently, former Senator George Allen (R-Va.). Democrats in the group include Arkansas Senator Mark Pryor, who told us that the separation of church and state has gone too far; Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) is also a regular.

Unlikely partnerships have become a Clinton trademark. Some are symbolic, such as her support for a ban on flag burning with Senator Bob Bennett (R-Utah) and funding for research on the dangers of video games with Brownback and Santorum. But Clinton has also joined the gop on legislation that redefines social justice issues in terms of conservative morality, such as an anti-human-trafficking law that withheld funding from groups working on the sex trade if they didn't condemn prostitution in the proper terms. With Santorum, Clinton co-sponsored the Workplace Religious Freedom Act; she didn't back off even after Republican senators such as Pennsylvania's Arlen Specter pulled their names from the bill citing concerns that the measure would protect those refusing to perform key aspects of their jobs—say, pharmacists who won't fill birth control prescriptions, or police officers who won't guard abortion clinics.
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer-3.html

[Vinca]

44. The guilt-by-association game is getting very old very fast.

Of course, it only involves Obama's associates. Hillary's past relationships get no coverage. None. It's as if they didn't happen and it's hoodwinking the voters who don't follow politics closely. They figure Barack is a monster because he associated with a guy who committed crimes when Obama was 8, but Hillary is a saint who only had the one little "marital" problem.

[Forkboy]

46. While I understand your point, sinking to their level doesn't help you.

Or more importantly, your candidate.

[psychmommy]

47. obama shouldn't do it , but we can.

they deserve it and more. maybe the shame of it all would make them walk away. but, those 2 egos just can't do it. it is sad. they are a sad mockery of their former legacy.

[Forkboy]

48. You can, but it reflects on your candidate.

And sadly, there's some weak minded people who base their vote on such things as supporter's actions.

[psychmommy]

50. tell some of your comrades that very same thing.

i am sick of that double standard. we can trash everybody else but clinton past misdeeds are off the table. i am no obama surrogate but i am a supporter. i am ready to trash the hell out of them as long as hill supporters are doing the same.

[Forkboy]

51. Yes, I'm known on DU for my staunch support of Hillary.

:rofl:

Hey, whatever excuse you need to act like those you hate....

[psychmommy]

52. no excuse necessary. sorry for the insult though.

i don't hate hill supporters i just tire of the bs day and day out. if they had to hear that crap ad nauseum like we do maybe they would stop flinging it.

[Forkboy]

55. It'll just encourage them further.

It's kind of like Israel and the Palestinians and their concept of dueling atrocities. One always uses the other as an excuse for more, and awaaaaay we go... :)

[psychmommy]

56. i just get so frustrated.

i do my best to ignore them. i understand the violence begets violence rationale- personal attacks begets more personal attacks. but, sometimes the bully needs a sock in the nose to ;leave you the heck alone. i feel bullied around here sometimes. i can't always turn the other cheek. i expect my candidate to do it though-haha speak of double standards. right now i am doing drive by "hillary is so broke jokes" to let off a little steam. i know it is immature but, it is helping me feel a little better.

[Forkboy]

57. Well, I'm not exactly the height of maturity, so I can't really complain too much.

But don't ever let yourself feel bullied by others opinions and/or tactics, online of off. And don't ever let others define you. :toast:

[psychmommy]

58. damn way to make me get positive forkboy.

now i am going to engage positively (with a couple of hillary is so broke jokes thrown in). haha. thanks for the encouragement and redirection.

[psychmommy]

60. you encouraged me yesterday and

i was able to encourage someone else. let's keep the positivity going. thanks again.

[Swamp Rat]

53. I wish I could be blamed for Rev. Wright's words.

I wish I knew the man so well. :)

[azmouse]

59. kick