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To those who didnt see, I'm doing a project for my New Media and Politics class on DU and how the extended primaries are creating a bitter divide on DU and the rest of the left-wing online world. In the project I talk about the Kos strike, certain websites splitting off of this site, as well as other Clinton supporters leaving and going to different places. Dont worry, I'm actually very fair to all. So this stuff to follow is just the responses I got from 10 or so DUers, making up both Obama and Clinton Supporters. I'm posting this here only so I can link to this post in my journal for my teacher.
All names are not included so all this is completely anonymous.
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When and why did you join DU?
I joined DU in October 2005. I had written a satirical political article about Bush long before that date, and my husband (A DU lurker in those days) suggested I submit it to be published. It was - and I continued to submit articles that DU graciously added to their Home Page. I finally signed up.
2. What positive things did DU provide for you before the real bitterness started?
DU was (and still is) a great source of news from across the country, and around the world - the stuff the MSM doesn't touch.
3. What do you personally think is the reason for all the animosity on DU?
People are emotionally invested in their candidate-of-choice. While such passion can be deemed annoying and unfounded (if their COC is NOT the same as yours!), it still equates to being personally involved - and that's what politics SHOULD BE, and too often isn't.
4. What is your opinion of supporters of an opposing candidate, and who do you support for President
I have supported Barack Obama from the beginning. However, I feel no animosity towards those who support Hillary. Their logic sometimes gets me riled - but in the end, "It's business - it was never personal," as was said in "The Godfather". The REAL Democrats will rally together in the end, and past bitterness will be forgotten. There is a time to bicker, and a time to come together - and those who truly want a Democrat in the WH realize that to everything, there is a season, and a time to every purpose - and that purpose will be for Democrats to prevail in the end.
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>1. When and why did you join DU?
Found DU in 2001 or 2002. I used to read Free Republic a lot for amusement, even though it raised my blood pressure, and they kept talking about DUmmies, so I finally went and took a look. I was a lurker for a couple of years and then joined in 2004.
>2. What positive things did DU provide for you before the real
>bitterness started?
It was nice to converse with people who agreed with me, for the most part. There are a lot of forums on the web where people argue politics from a left-right, Repub-Dem perspective. DU offers a place where left of center folks can address and discuss issues in a more comprehensive and sophisticated way.
>3. What do you personally think is the reason for all the
>animosity on DU?
Identity politics. 2004 was fractious, but nothing like this, because it was a field of old white guys. Democrats have a weakness for identity politics - we are a party of interest group constituencies, held together by mutual interests. Women, blacks, hispanics, gays, white working class, native americans, youth, etc.
This was the first cycle where two "symbols" of our identity politics ended up in hand to hand combat. Black folks have a deep emotional connection to the success of Barack Obama and women have a similarly deep interest and connection to the success of Hillary Clinton. Thus, this primary season is FAR more personal than previous ones.
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>4. What is your opinion of supporters of an opposing
>candidate, and who do you support for President
I support Clinton because I think she is the better *CANDIDATE*. She is tough, resilient, strong and smart. She is also highly partisan, a quality I believe a president needs in order to be successful and effective in office. (take that American Presidency course and you will see what I mean :) )
I think Obama has run a better campaign than Hillary. I will support him fully if he is the nominee. In real life, I have no problem with his supporters. On the web, I find many of them, unfortunately, to be hostile and juvenile. They actually remind me of Republicans at times. When I focus solely on Obama, I like him, though I worry about his electability. When his supporters come on the scene, carrying their pitchforks, I become far less enthused. I think his supporters on the web have done him more harm than good.
1) I discovered DU immediately after the nomination of Bush in January of 2001 and officially joined approximately March of 2001. I joined because I had fears, unfounded or not, that things could get very bad after the way the election was stolen by the Supreme Court for George W Bush. I wanted to be part of an organized resistance to the fascism we were headed towards.
2) Some might argue that DU has always been bitter. We did not need to hear more opposing viewpoints. We intentionally banned the right-wing views. We had already heard them all, Rush, Hannity, FOX News, etc, for several years. We needed a place that was not polluted by right-wing propaganda. Many great ideas came from DU and, I'm sure, many Democratic politicians read and listened to the concerns of the activists that had started DemocraticUnderground. DU was a pioneer in fund-raising and organizing for the Democratic Party. At different times, they also flooded the offices of Barbara Boxer and Senator Robert Byrd with roses to show our appreciation for Democrats that were willing to stand up to the lies and war-mongering of this present Adminsitration.
3) The present animosity on DU is not the first time we have experienced such battles. But, it may be worse this time because of the deep loyalties to each candidate by different folks on DU. Also, the Clintons have been controversial for many years, even amongst many Democrats, and this creates a lot of animosity, in my opinion.
4) I respect the opinion of all Democratic supporters of different candidates, except if they support Republicans, which I cannot accept as rational or reasonable. The Republicans must be opposed and defeated. You may want to read my "Journal" to get a better idea of who I support and why?
5. Divisions take time to heal. In the end, intelligent people make intelligent decisions. They do what is necessary. In the end, the vast majority of all Democrats will unite behind the nominee of our Party, just as they did behind John Kerry the last time
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>1. When and why did you join DU?
March of 2004. I had lurked during the fall of 2003 and finally felt I had to add my self important opinion to the mix.
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>2. What positive things did DU provide for you before the real
>bitterness started?
Its an instant news source. You will find your views challenged and most of the time that is a good thing. Plus there are many very smart, very educated people here who bring their life experience and knowledge from a large pool of subjects.
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>3. What do you personally think is the reason for all the
>animosity on DU?
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There were always fights before say about Feb 2008. Let's face it, not everyone on the board is a nice person. But after Super Tuesday there was a huge influx of newbies and cicadas (low count posters who joined years ago) who would post nothing but flamebait and do so at great volume. They say horrible things about both our candidate and as supporter we get emotional and lash out. So more fights are started as more and more people get sucked in. The fights get uglier and uglier as more and more flamebait is posted. And that is where you get the animosity and bitterness. I've seen good people on both sides (myself included) turn into snarling beasts just from the wave of bullshit that dropped in the last couple of months. It happens, we're human beings after all. I'm hoping those of us that fought last summer in a more respectful manner will be able to pull this together to go after McCain. I think we will.
>4. What is your opinion of supporters of an opposing
>candidate, and who do you support for President
I only trust the old timers and people I see posting some thing more than flamebait. Everyone else I consider a troll pretending to support Obama. There are also plenty of trolls pretending to be Hillary supporters. It took me awhile to come to that conclusion but its where I stand now.
I support Hillary Clinton but I have no problem voting for Obama in the general election.
>1. When and why did you join DU?
* 7-25-05.
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>2. What positive things did DU provide for you before the real
>bitterness started?
* I've had an incredible journey. For the first two years I was a Clinton sycophant. I defended all their bullshit. I see myself in many here. But the IWR has always eaten at me and I knew I would NEVER reward any of the shitheads who voted yes. So, with a few notable PM apologies to those I used to pound, I re-entered the fray with a new ideology in progress. I backtracked and actually read the material I summarily rejected. And now I reject and denounce the Clintons and their triangulation and bullshit. And I see a brilliant candidate in Barack Obama. Anyway, I thought my journey was pretty cool. ;)
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>3. What do you personally think is the reason for all the
>animosity on DU?
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* Easy peasy. It has everything to do with the Clinton's sense of entitlement. Tough shit. Barack has won this fair and square. They can snivel til the cows come home and it wouldn't move me. I see some folks transiently weak-kneed thinking he should just give it to her because she is like the zombie that wouldn't die, and I say eff that. Not this time. Not this election.
1. I joined DU after the 2004 election. The first time I ever went online to discuss politics was at johnkerry.com. When that site went down, I came here.
2. DU used to be a great site to get news that wouldn't make it to the msm, and to get the truth.
3. Emotions are high. Obama and Hillary need to learn how to appeal to all Dems.
4. I think supporters of both candidates need to start opening their mind. Thom Hartmann had a great show today. He had Obama supporters call in and say how they would sell Hillary if she was the nominee; and vice versa. We all need to start doing that, everyone seems to only see the positive qualities of their candidate and the negatives of the other....especially at sites like DU.
I support Hillary over Obama, but I would have no problem voting for Obama if he was the nominee.
1. I joined DU in July of 2007. The day I switched my voter registration from Republican to Democratic. My trigger was for-profit healthcare coverage and as I was on vacation that week, I decided to research the issue. The more I read, the angrier I got. I started looking at the candidate's (both parties) plans to rectify what I believe is an immoral and broken system. Through links through links, I found DU and found out about SiCKO, which had just been released. I went to see that and it cemented in me that I had been lied to. I moved from right of right to left of left, threw my support behind John Edwards and haven't left this addicting site since.
2. DU provided me a GOLDMINE of information about the candidates and the platform planks of my newly adopted party. I was beyond livid that I had fallen for the RW talking points all these years and couldn't absorb information from here quickly enough. Every thread I opened taught me something new about the candidates, the party, the history and all that I hadn't seen (or chose to ignore) about my former party.
3. I believe the animosity is because one Democrat is tearing another apart over a power struggle. Keep in mind that I came to the Dem party (and this site) already tainted against Mrs. Clinton. I hated her back in the 90s and I hate her even more now, watching what she is willing to do to win. That said, I believe that no one here wants this thing to be as negative as it has. The more negative Mrs. Clinton has gotten, the more her supporters have dug in to stand by her -- which is only leading to the party split we are witnessing. I believe Senator Obama is going to be our nominee, and would venture to say that his supporters are growing concerned by the day that this elongated primary is doing FAR too much damage while McCain gets a pass as the "nice grandfatherly war hero". The nastier Mrs. Clinton gets, the more we have concern for our chances in the general, and when people see people PROMOTING her actions, they lash out.
Biased, but that is how I see the actions on the site. I am sure that it doesn't help that I come from the RW with all of the anti-Clinton baggage that comes with that.
I am a very recent addition to DU and joined Jan 5th 2008
It provides an opportunity to discuss in depth the current and political topics that I care about. The truth is a very very small percent of the population could answer 10% of the questions that are raised here.
I also joined because it is a very easy way to communicate. I have tried other forums and found them very difficult to navigate. There is a certain conrtontational nature of DU that you have to be prepared for and takes time to adjust to.
People are particularly invested in these two candidates. I have noticed that a number of the 'fence sitters' who tried to referee between the two sides have given up. I wonder if they will come back after the primaries?
Why are people so invested? It is because they see something in one of the candidates that expresses something fundamentally true about their own personal experience. For the Obama supporters it may be that they are in a racial minority or sympathetic to that community. It may be that they still remember the 60s and the Kennedy's and King.
For the Clinton supporters Hillary has become their MLK. Think about it there never has been a woman who has actually achieved power at the highest point in our country. They channel their personal frustrations and bitterness of discrimination into her campaign. It is their opportunity to fight back. The criticisms of her that they hear are the same criticisms they have had thrown at them so they have developed a 'tin' ear to it. They discount it because they think it has been used improperly before so it couldn't be true now - even if it clearly is.
But the real divisiveness now comes from Hillary Clinton. She had a fair chance and failed. She can continue to run but it is futile. The democraticat Party is not going to deny either the first Black candidate or the first Woman candidate the nomination after winning the pledged delegate battle.
By continuing Obama supporters see this as an attempt to sabotage and they fight back and Clinton supporters fight back to defend her. She takes increasingly un Democratic positions and her defenders respond with increasingly untenable defenses which cause increasingly caustic responses by Obama supporters.
It is now a vicious cycle that only HRC can stop. She has waited her whole life for this moment, suffering humiliation after humiliation and she will not stop until it is absolutely over.
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