It's amazing what passes for BRILLIANCE these days.

[boston bean]

A man promoting genetic brain differences between the races? He was not implying cultural differences. He spoke of the left brain and the right brain.

I thought that was something that was debunked/proven false with science eons ago. It is not a belief that I can see progressives embracing.

edit for sp

[CBGLuthier]

1. Who asked you to embrace HIS beliefs

Nice Try though.

Loves me the smell of desperation in the morning. It smells like....


VICTORY

[chimpymustgo]

23. What thinking person would embrace Rev. Wright's hogwash about racial learning differences.

That's beyond racist. It's just plain stupid and ignorant.

What a buffoon.

[rucky]

2. I saw that talking point last night, too.

from some dimwitted republican strategist who felt the need to tell us she has a masters degree before commenting. And I'll have to agree - it IS amazing what passes for brilliance these days.

[cali]

3. I reject that concept completely.

I still admire a great deal about Wright.

[Political Heretic]

5. At no point did he say it was genetic.

Difference can be culturally constructed, and there was nothing in his remarks - including right brained / left brained that implied genetics over cultural construction.

[cali]

7. Sorry, I still reject that kind of generalization

and when you start using terms like learning via the right side of the brain v learning via the left side of the brain, you are dipping into the genetic even if that's not what you meant to do. There is no scientific evidence that I'm aware of that backs up right brain/left brain differences via culture or genetics in different ethnic groups. In any case, the truth is that children are individuals and learn in different ways despite cultural differences. And there are so many other factors- TV, nutrition, etc.

[boston bean]

8. I agree wholeheartedly with you on this cali. It might be a first or second, but

you are correct.

[cali]

9. ack. that's.... strange.

but oh what the hell.

:hi:

[boston bean]

10. As an olive branch

I am sure, outiside our presidential candiate preference, we could probably find agreement on many things.

[Political Heretic]

14. I doubt you even watched the speech.

Because what you're saying seems to indicate that you haven't.

[boston bean]

20. PH, I listened to it twice, believe what you want. nt

[Political Heretic]

29. Hoookay.

[graycem]

55. But

my psych book that I'm learning from sites research theories that imply people DO learn differently across different cultures. Contrast for a second Asians with American children. The cultural influence is there because their culture places a higher value on education. Another theory that applies, is the Expectation Theory which basically says children who are given signs that they are expected to do badly in academics, do badly and vice versa. I don't know how anyone can discard that theory, or that racism (even subconscious) might have a role in this theory, and so that it might have a greater impact on african-american children.

[Brundle_Fly]

80. yeah PH that stumped me too...

right and left brain are both viable and well proven... It is even possible to learn to use the other side through proper educational application.

If it is debunked someplace I would look for some articles about the viability of intelligent design as well... ie: don't sputter crap if you really have no idea.

If you think kids being taught how to learn properly is racist, you really need to reconsider your own ability to learn a damned thing, because you come off as completely uninformed and arrogant, and Anti Education, and Anti MultiCulture, and Anti Intelligent.

[Political Heretic]

4. You didn't watch it.

guaranteed.

[boston bean]

6. WRONG, I watched it twice. just to be sure what I thought I heard was really what I heard. nt

[Political Heretic]

16. Right.

[Swamp Rat]

11. Did you listen to the FUX Noise version of the speech?

You apparently have it backwards.

[scheming daemons]

12. Wright was making it clear that it was CULTURAL, not genetic.... but you heard

what you wanted to hear.


He was speaking anthropologically.... Irish aren't GENETICALLY different than Russians... but they LEARN differently because of CULTURAL differences.


Same is true for African-American communities vs. European-American communities.


YOU thought you heard something that you didn't.



But you're either being willfully ignorant.... or you have a low IQ. One is sinister, one is sad.


Both are traits of Republican voters.

[boston bean]

15. May I suggest you heard it wrong, when someone discussed left brain and right brain

they are making a genetic correlation. But you can believe what you want and defend that bullshit that is believed by racists.

[Political Heretic]

28. No, there's nothing about having a right or left brain preference that can't be culturally created

Cultures are real things. Just because not every individual fits or adapts to cultural norms doesn't change the fact that identifying cultural norms is still possible. European cultural norms are different than African cultural norms. Western cultural norms are different from Eastern cultural norms.

Eastern culture for example, has a very different way of looking at information and learning than western culture. Which is not to say that there's no human being living within an eastern culture that doesn't look at information and learning in ways more commonly associated with western culture. But the generalization is still appropriate. It's a common pattern; it doesn't have to be a universal one.

The same thing is true with african culture, and african-american culture. Pretending like african american culture is no different from euro-american culture is just silly. And that includes how cultures pass and process information. Some cultures, such as cultures with rich oral and story traditions, learn using a subject-oriented framework as their most common cultural way. Others, learn using an object-oriented framework and a more analytical information-processing means as their way of learning. Withing cultural norms, there are of course always individuals who deviate from the general pattern. But that doesn't mean there aren't general patterns.

Its the same with saying something like women in american society tend to be more able to easily express their emotions than men in american society. Some moron could claim that is because of genetic / intrinsic differences between sexes. In fact some still do. But it is equally possible to conclude that those tendencies are because of our social environment and our western construction of gender and gender roles.

It the same thing. There's nothing about it that necessarily implies that it is "genetic." And Wright certainly didn't say that. You have to already have made up your mind about him, have a confirmation bias where you want him to be a bastard so you can hold it over Obama, and thus interpret everything though that lens. He didn't say it, and nothing in the context implied it - in fact it implied just the opposite.

So try again.

[boston bean]

32. No sir, when you say the brain is different, you are making a biologic inference.

He was not discussing culture, he was speaking to direct differences he believes exist in the races due to genetics (right brain and left brain). Cultural difference have nothing to do with the physical composition of the brain.

[Political Heretic]

42. lol, what is your degree in, exactly?

Because mine are sociology social work and philosophy - that means study and certification in psychology, social theory, human development, human behavior and social environment, AND field work - not to mention cultural studies coming from the philosophy degree.

What do you do?

I am telling you, in my expert opinion - that a tendency to be more right-brained or left-brained can be culturally influenced. This is such a basic obvious truism, that is actually stunning to me that you can't get this through your head.

[boston bean]

46. My degree is in the common sense arena, which you are obviously lacking. nt

You're degrees obviously did nothing for you.

[Political Heretic]

49. Yay! Resort to name-calling when you don't have a leg to stand on.

I'm sorry that I actually KNOW what I'm talking about and you don't, but your name calling doesn't change that.

[boston bean]

67. Hey listen book smarty pants, you are the one who claims to be smarter than someone else

because you have a couple of degrees.

There happen to be many idiots out there with multiple degrees who couldn't find their way out of a paper bag.

[Political Heretic]

82. Well argued.

:eyes:

[graycem]

56. FIRST of all

There is NO such animal as right/left brain, we all use our brains FOR all of our actions, both hemispheres, except for the simplest of tasks. This man was not implying that. He was implying cultural. Just like when I say, I'm more creative because I'm "right" brained. He doesn't mean it in the literal sense. Stop trying to find something to be offended by.

[terrell9584]

54. Black American culture is a compendium of two influences

The first influence, traditions carried over from Africa. The second influence, white Southern culture. I'll get attacked for saying it, but think about it.

The food that is referred to in black culture as "Soul Food", also the primary food that makes up the diet of a white Southerner, whites refer to it as "home cooking", but it consists of the same things. A lot of stuff that is deeply fried, collard greens, an insistence on seasoning etc etc.

Now this does not hold true for the immediate Gulf region, which is more Catholic in origin, or the major old line ports, which were more Episcopal (or another way of saying, just like Catholics) in origin. But, in most of the rest of the South, white worshippers worship in Evangelical churches with a high emphasis on the prophetic. The same applies to the so called "black church"

Many of the traditions that are considered central to "black culture" were also central to Southern white culture, especially the poor ones who made up the sharecropper class, the white trash if you will.

The father of country music, Hank Williams, used to have jam sessions with a black blues musician in Montgomery in the 1930s, and early country and rockabilly were greatly influenced by the Delta and New Orleans blues, and the same applies to the Southern rock movement of the 1970s, which used influences from every spectrum of Southern music, both black and white.

The prejudices that were expressed against blacks in the Northern cities, who brought with them a culture that had been partially melded by the South were met with the same hostility by Northerners as the southern whites that left during the Depression looking for work. The same stereotyping and everything else.

The reason that the races have always been pitted against each other in the South is because if they weren't, black Southerners and white Southerners, if they looked at it would realize that they had a common enemy, and as such, would work together against the common enemy. The reason that race was pushed in the South was so that white Southerners wouldn't band together with their natural brothers, black Southerners, even as the cycle of farm tenancy brought more and more southern whites into sharecropping, a cycle that was only stopped by the industrialization of World War II. The rural South didn't just have a Depression in the 1930s, if anything, it had been suffering a Depression for 80 years, that's what WWII ended. The endless vicious cycle of downward spiral that had resulted in each Southern generation having an overall lower standard of living than the prior one.

WWII helped put an end to this and helped to set Jim Crow on the death knoll. Unfortunately, white Southerners and black Southerners still fail largely to recognize their commonalities and band together for a common cause. That remains the tragedy of Southern life.

[Tesha]

73. Thank you! (NT)

[Political Heretic]

81. Thank you. Much more eloquent than I.

[Cassandra]

50. Perhaps you should read, The Alphabet Versus the Goddess

http://www.amazon.com/Alphabet-Versus-Goddess-Conflict-Between/dp/0140196013/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209388348&sr=8-15

which discusses the way the brain functions depending on whether it gets information by visual cues and oral traditions or by reading. The book concentrates on male/female but, regardless of whether you agree with his premise or not, it is a look at the cultural effects of different ways of learning on the dominance of one side of the brain or the other.
Rev. Wright didn't invent the thought that different cultures produce different ways of learning.

[cali]

39. Wait a minute, the Irish learn differently from the Russians?

anything to support that claim. Yes, culture is a factor in learning styles, but how much? How much of a factor is watching TV 6 hours a day? How much of a factor is nutrition?

[sakura]

65. Poverty is the biggest factor...

...specifically generational poverty. When you compare student performance data in apples to apples fashion-- controlling for all variables so that the only thing varying is income, students do equally well, regardless of their ethnicity.

[terrell9584]

58. There's no such thing as a monolithic white American culture

Or, to put it another way, a white person in Little Rock has more in common with a black person in South Central Los Angeles than they do with a white person in Des Moines. Northern white culture and Southern white culture have nothing in common other than the skin color of the people who practice it, but Southern white culture and American black culture in general have many commonalities, but no one dares to talk about that.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Yossariant]

17. Obviously, further explanation from Rev. Wright is in order. He should do more

primetime tv to describe this in greater depth for those who might misunderstand.

[Forkboy]

18. Don't blame Wright for your own ignorance.

[Yossariant]

22. Some of us learn differently and need more desription than others.

It is racist to call me ignorant.

Different does not mean deficient.

God damn America.

[Forkboy]

26. The defense rests.

[Swamp Rat]

44. LOL!

:D

[Yossariant]

52. WOW! Obviously, like so many, you don't believe Rev. Wright.

:cry:

[boston bean]

24. You sir are the ignorant one if you can't see that what he said is racist.

He is implying that childrens brains are different due to genetics.

It is an argument used by racists throughout the history of our country. But if you want to ignorantly believe in it, then go for it.

[Forkboy]

27. Actually I don't buy into it.

Nor do I buy into the spin some want to put on it.

[Political Heretic]

33. He's not implying anything of the sort. Just because you keep lying about it doesn't change that.

At no point, anywhere did he say anything about genetics. Everything he spoke about was cultural differences.

He even said that the study showed that cultural factors such as a tendency to emphasis oral history and other modes of communication contribute to the cultural development of a more right-brained approach to learning. Subject-oriented rather than object oriented. It's not fucking rocket science. All you have to do with listen without already having your mind made up.

[boston bean]

36. He was speaking of differences in the brain. what part do you not get. nt

[Political Heretic]

37. Differences of the brain don't have to be GENETIC JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

YOUR ENVIRONMENT CAN AFFECT HOW YOU PROCESS INFORMATION.

CULTURAL CONTEXT CAN CONTRIBUTE TO SOMEONE BEING MORE "RIGHT BRAINED" OR "LEFT BRAINED"
CULTURAL CONTEXT CAN CONTRIBUTE TO SOMEONE BEING MORE "RIGHT BRAINED" OR "LEFT BRAINED"
CULTURAL CONTEXT CAN CONTRIBUTE TO SOMEONE BEING MORE "RIGHT BRAINED" OR "LEFT BRAINED"
CULTURAL CONTEXT CAN CONTRIBUTE TO SOMEONE BEING MORE "RIGHT BRAINED" OR "LEFT BRAINED"
CULTURAL CONTEXT CAN CONTRIBUTE TO SOMEONE BEING MORE "RIGHT BRAINED" OR "LEFT BRAINED"
CULTURAL CONTEXT CAN CONTRIBUTE TO SOMEONE BEING MORE "RIGHT BRAINED" OR "LEFT BRAINED"
CULTURAL CONTEXT CAN CONTRIBUTE TO SOMEONE BEING MORE "RIGHT BRAINED" OR "LEFT BRAINED"
CULTURAL CONTEXT CAN CONTRIBUTE TO SOMEONE BEING MORE "RIGHT BRAINED" OR "LEFT BRAINED"
CULTURAL CONTEXT CAN CONTRIBUTE TO SOMEONE BEING MORE "RIGHT BRAINED" OR "LEFT BRAINED"
CULTURAL CONTEXT CAN CONTRIBUTE TO SOMEONE BEING MORE "RIGHT BRAINED" OR "LEFT BRAINED"
CULTURAL CONTEXT CAN CONTRIBUTE TO SOMEONE BEING MORE "RIGHT BRAINED" OR "LEFT BRAINED"
CULTURAL CONTEXT CAN CONTRIBUTE TO SOMEONE BEING MORE "RIGHT BRAINED" OR "LEFT BRAINED"
CULTURAL CONTEXT CAN CONTRIBUTE TO SOMEONE BEING MORE "RIGHT BRAINED" OR "LEFT BRAINED"
CULTURAL CONTEXT CAN CONTRIBUTE TO SOMEONE BEING MORE "RIGHT BRAINED" OR "LEFT BRAINED"
CULTURAL CONTEXT CAN CONTRIBUTE TO SOMEONE BEING MORE "RIGHT BRAINED" OR "LEFT BRAINED"
CULTURAL CONTEXT CAN CONTRIBUTE TO SOMEONE BEING MORE "RIGHT BRAINED" OR "LEFT BRAINED"
CULTURAL CONTEXT CAN CONTRIBUTE TO SOMEONE BEING MORE "RIGHT BRAINED" OR "LEFT BRAINED"
CULTURAL CONTEXT CAN CONTRIBUTE TO SOMEONE BEING MORE "RIGHT BRAINED" OR "LEFT BRAINED"

[boston bean]

38. that is bull shit. your brain is made the way it is, nothing changes that.

You are either left brained or right brained it is not determined by your culture it is determined by your brains physical composition.

[Political Heretic]

48. That is simply untrue. Anyone with background in the field will tell you its untrue.

First of all, no one is "either" left or right brained. We're both. Secondly:

Newman and Newman, Development Through Life: A Psychosocial Approach, Thomson Wadsworth Publishing, 2006, page 244 on the subject of Individual Difference vs. Constructivism

Individual differences perspective suggests that differences reside within the individual as persistent, internal attributes. .. the differences are the result of biology.

The constructivist perspective suggests that...differences are a product of particular interactions that have a socially agreed-upon meaning... both views have research evidence to support them.

[Tesha]

61. You're attempting to argue with someone who is here only to stir things up.

The more you argue with them, the more you assist them
in "stirring things up". Let it go. Plenty of us under-
stand what Wright said, why he said it, and the deep
truth of what he said. That should be enough.

Tesha

[graycem]

57. You are neither...

We all use all of our brains. Talk to a neurologist. :|

[yodermon]

75. "your brain is made the way it is, nothing changes that. " 100% Categorically false.

Utterly.

Disproof by counterexample: http://www.snapnetwork.org/psych_effects/how_abuse_andneglect.htm

[scheming daemons]

78. The most uninformed, incorrect statement you've ever uttered... and that's saying something...

right or left brain dominance can be and *IS* taught.... from an early age.


The human brain is malleable.... you are saying that the way we think is GENETIC... think about that... that would mean that someone is GENETICALLY programmed to be a conservative or a liberal... to like math, music, science, or art.


That's not how it works. Numerous studies have shown this. A white child raised in a black culture will THINK differently than a white child raised in a white culture. The same is true for a black child raised in a white culture or black culture.

You think the way you do, MassDemm, because of the culture you grew up in..... not because of genetics.

[Jamastiene]

19. I have always thought eugenics was racist as hell. n/t

[boston bean]

25. It's obviously brilliant if Wright believes in it and speaks to it. nt

[Jamastiene]

69. I still trying to figure that out.

MLK, he is not. He's missing the mark. I'm sure his intentions are good, but how he goes about it leaves a lot to be desired.

[rodeodance]

31. Different forms of Eugenics keep popping up over the years

[Usrename]

77. Do you even have a clue of what you are talking about?

:wtf:

Eugenics?

:grr:

[Tesha]

21. Ahhh! You couldn't resist turning your thoughts into a thread! Well, that's one for your day. (NT)

[rodeodance]

30. Just demean the OP instead of engaging in a discussion. Typical of so

many on this "discussion' board.

[Tesha]

34. You, and Mass Dem, and Methuen Progressive...

...and a few others have proven, over and over again,
that you're not interested in discussion. You're here
to post your quota of three hit pieces every day.

Quite honestly, the lot of you make me sick, and I will
be *VERY HAPPY* when Obama is finally accepted by the DU
leadership as the nominee and you folks can either shut
up, head out, or be tombstoned

Tesha

[rodeodance]

40. you have just proven my point--as you have leveled more insults.

[Tesha]

45. See my reply below.

But frankly, you've proven time and time again
thatyou have nothing but insults (and pretty
vacuous ones at that), so why would you expect
better in return?

And as I said, soon you'll be gone.

Tesha

[boston bean]

47. you certainly can dole out the insults. nt

[rodeodance]

53. Third time is a charm for you for personal insults. NOT.

[Tesha]

59. I am deeply, deeply concerned about any opinions you folks may have about me.

:sarcasm:

[haymakeragain]

84. I'm concerned about them paying the bills. Don't they have jobs?

Get a job ...........

[Maribelle]

63. 'make me sick'? Then why on earth would you go into a thread MassDem has started and post?

You make yourself sick, hero.

[Tesha]

66. Becasuse the shit they post should occasionally be rebutted

(or at least objected-to), and sometimes it's my turn
to do it. But as I've said, soon they'll be gone.

Tesha

[Maribelle]

70. That brown stuff you're seeing could just be the splashing from ...

the Obumma drippings. No wonder you're making yourself sick when your so oblivious to the pushback against the bullies.

[Political Heretic]

35. It's hardly worth engaging because its categorically false.

But I did anyway.

[Tesha]

41. And as I aluded, I already saw MassDemm post this stuff as a reply, and replied there

But now, ta-da, it becomes one of their quota-of-three thread
postings for the day. I really didn't feel it deserved more
work for a second reply.

Tesha

[Blue-Jay]

43. I'm sold!

Rev Wright will NOT be getting my vote.

Thank you for your service to democracy.

[goclark]

51. When eyes /ears are wide shut no learning takes place

[JoFerret]

60. Time to let it go. There is good brain science out there

it is just not race based so far as I am aware.
But you know - the man is a minister not a cognitive scientist. Time to let it all go.
Wright is not running for office.

[Texas Hill Country]

62. it was horribly racist and divisive, I was extremely offended.

[Usrename]

74. You were extremely offended? Really?

You have to be kidding, right? You must have an awful guilty conscience, or something. Or else why would you be offended?

[EffieBlack]

64. Whoosh!!!

Right over your head.

The brother was too deep for you, eh?

[madrchsod]

68. well EffieBlack....

"And there are people still in darkness,
and they just can't see the light.
If you don't say it's wrong then that says it right.
We got try to feel for each other, let our brother's know that we care.
Got to get the message, send it out loud and clear........

none of us are free.....

[Maribelle]

71. 'too deep'?

Wouldn't that be an inconvenient parapraxis?

[IndianaJones]

72. I believe he was only referring to typical white people. nt.

[unblock]

76. (a) he didn't say genetic; quite the opposite; (b) brain-sidedness is a cultural construct

(a) he referred to cultural traditions. it is entirely plausible, indeed likely, that cultural and family (i.e., non-genetic) forces encourage learning in one fashion or another.

(b) unless you're actually a geneticist or neuroscientist or whatnot, the whole "left-brain" and "right-brain" concept is just a way of conceptualizing different ways of thinking. any statement about brain-sidedness coming from a lay person, especially in this sort of context, is not intended to be a scientifically accurate description of inherent physiological differences. it's merely meant to help convey the different ways of thinking.


in scientific fact, few things the brain does is so simple as to be described as merely "left" or "right". even though some things are commonly pinpointed to certain areas of the brain, much is also dependent on other factors, such as pathways to other areas of the brain, possibly even in the other hemisphere.

you might guess a few things about my house from my address, but there is much more to my house than just that.

[smiley_glad_hands]

79. It's amazing what passes for progressivism these days. eom

[ProSense]

83. It's amazing what passes for comprehension skills these days.

"A man promoting genetic brain differences between the races?"

That is your misinterpretation of what Wright brilliantly stated.

I'd say brilliant is being able to master five languages.

Lying about encountering sniper fire in Bosnia, not brilliant.