I hope I'm Wrong -- But I think Wright may have just given it to McCain

[Armstead]

Rev. Wright just gave the GOP the biggest gift they could have asked for.

While the economy is in freefall, corporations continue to consolidate power, the war in Iraq rages on....The good Rev. is helping to marginalize the Democrats best chance for taking the White House. He is exacerbating the divisions that we all are trying to overcome, and reducing the chances of electing the FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT.

And if Hillary becomes the nominee, this will still add to the memes the GOP will be capitalizing on.

Do we need to honestly deal with the ongoing issue of race? Sure constantly. But there's a time and a place for everything.

Race is connected to class. But class transcends race. The real stakes at this point in history is whether there will continue to be a Middle Class, and whether the poor have opportunities to rise to the Middle Class. Inproving the status of the Lower and Middle Classes is also a key ingredient for racial advancement.

Wright may be smart. He may even be right on many core issues. But he is a distraction and handing the GOP the type of wedge issue that neither Obama or Clinton or the USA needs at this point.

As I said in the Headline...I sure as hell hope I'm wrong on this. But Wright is not doing us any favors at this point.

[John Q. Citizen]

1. You are wrong. It's a net positive for Obama. Look at todays tracking polls and

you can see ti's helping.

In fact, it's been instrumental in educating the distracted public that Obama isn't a Muslim.

[Armstead]

2. I hope your are right....But polls operate on a delayed basis

[livingmadness]

92. Super-delegates don't

And Obama has 3 to 1 over Clinton in the past 24 hours. Stop fretting. Turn off the TV. Phone bank, Donate. You'll feel better :)

[oasis]

10. "Obama isn't a muslim" but his spritual leader embraces Louis Farrakhan. A jump from the

frying pan into the fire.;-)

[cliffordu]

43. Pastorbating in public, I see....

[oasis]

58. How about addressing the OP's topic for once? Are you that limited?

[John Q. Citizen]

73. The 15 volunteers who showed up at our little tiny town in the Bitterrrot Valley

on the first warm weekend in a month weren't worried about a thing. They were more interested in electing Obama.

Most were women, and most were 45 or older. 5 were at least in their 60's.

The nearest college is 30 miles away.

Small town Americans coming together for what we believe in.

It's so awesome to be a volunteer in this campaign.

Good luck with your candidate.Are you having as much fun as we are?

[oasis]

75. I'm glad you're having fun. At least you'll have those memories.(eom)

[Tellurian]

52. After Wright announced today he wants to be Obama's Vice President..

From the frying pan to the fire to a cinder..will be all that remains of Obama's campaign..

The OP conveniently dismisses and omits Sen Clinton is the ONLY viable alternative as the Dem Nominee. Senator Clinton as our presidential candidate running against McCain will be the only Dem winning the White House since her husband's election!

[John Q. Citizen]

71. Yep, it will all be over on Feb. 5th. I've seen your analysis be so spot on this election

that I'm sure you are, once again, right. (yeah, right)

But for now I hitting my garden and then I'm heading out to the Obama office and doing some work there.

Do you know if Hillary has any offices open in MT yet? I heard she was getting one or two, but I haven't heard any more about it. Usually stuff like that makes the local news.

We have a ton of local organizations for Obama though out the state(as well as the 5 official Obama campaign offices that have been running for a few weeks now)and the volunteers are pouring in. Our local all volunteer effort was donated an office space by a local trucking firm, and now we are looking for a second space to add because we have too many volunteers for that space. They only have twelve phones.

I took a 60 year old woman out canvassing on Sat. It was her first time at the doors for any candidate, ever. She was great. Very personable and motivated.

Neighbor to neighbor.

Good luck with your candidate. You are going to need it.

[Tellurian]

81. My analysis is always spot on.. Rev Wright's VP slip did surprise me though..

I had no idea Rev Wright intended to make the jump into politics as Obama's VP.

Good Luck with your garden!

[SOS]

78. "the only Dem winning the White House"

Without OH, NH, PA, FL and MI?

Will bookmark my prediction for possible review in November 2008:

Electoral votes

McCain 356
Clinton 182

[Beregond2]

85. He didn't

"embrace" Farrakhan. Why are you lying? He admitted that Farrakhan has achieved a lot of good in the black community. That is hardly the same thing.

[rusty_parts2001]

31. My two cents worth:

Most people will never know the full context of Wright's remarks (whether on Moyers' show, the NAACP confab, or the Nat'l Press Club). I think a lot of it will just pass from the scene. The political junkies can dote on his every word, parse it, cheer it or condemn it, but I think the vast majority of folks will be oblivious to it. Obama will stand or fall on his own merits, his perceived electability, and whether Hillary can rise from the near dead to capitalize on voter anxiousness over the economy.

[Armstead]

55. if there's justice in the world, that's what will happen

[AlinPA]

62. Yes, most people don't follow this stuff like we do; however, the broadcast media

will work very, very hard to try to twist this and to discredit Obama somehow. Why would CNN run the speech to the NAACP 3 (three) times last night? It's more than just ratings. They did it for entertainment value, not for enlightenment. Most 'Murcans are too stupid to understand his message and they only think they understand his gestures. My ignorant brother said something like "I'm tired of Obama pushing that preacher" and there are lot just like him.

The broadcast media are trying to say something here. I look for "discussion" with "experts" on this 24/7 on all cable "News" and repeated continuously on network "News".

[Doityourself]

3. Don't go into panice mode.

[GoneOffShore]

5. I'll be paniced as nicely as I can.

[Doityourself]

12. lol

[Armstead]

7. I'm too old for panic mode -- As a Baby Boomer been through too much for that

But as a Baby Boomer I've also seen how the meaningless fucked-up things can put and keep the wrong people in power.

[Doityourself]

14. Fair enough. But it is going to be alright.

[Armstead]

18. I hope you're right -- I will happily eat crow if I'm proven wrong

[Doityourself]

30. No crow. You can share my wine though.

[Armstead]

53. I'll take your wine over my whine if I'm wrong

:)

[Doityourself]

56. he he..good one! and done too.

[EFerrari]

4. That will only be true if Democrats respond with fear and not with

democratic values.

[azmouse]

6. It's still more than 6 months til the election.

The Dems haven't had the chance to start firing back at McBush because Obama has had to continue to deal with the train wreck that is the HRC campaign.

[cliffordu]

8. People aren't as stupid as you might think or hope.

This will NOT hurt Obama.

Shill for Hillary another way, please.

[Armstead]

11. 8 years of Bush -- And he was relected in the middle of it

'nuff said

[MonkeyFunk]

47. It's already hurt him

http://www.newsweek.com/id/134389

41% say they have a less favorable impression of Obama because of his association with Wright.

[cliffordu]

57. almost 90% of those think he's the Antichrist. So??

[MonkeyFunk]

66. making up stupid facts

doesn't change the fact that 41% have a less favorable opinion of Obama because of Wright, while only 6% have a more favorable impression.

You're just whistling past the graveyard if you think Wright isn't hurting Obama.

[brentspeak]

64. Armstead's an Obama supporter

[panAmerican]

74. I certainly hope they're not that stupid.

Why is every fundie preacher tolerated while a man who speaks the truth is demonized? I disagree with some of what he said, but for the most part he has had the temerity to call a spade a spade.

[Vinca]

9. I watched the speech to the press club and thought Rev. Wright

did very well for himself. He's a well read man with background for his beliefs and there's no reason for him to go hide under the bed just because the MSM decided to trash him with a 20 second tape of inflammatory sound bytes. Sometimes, lately, I feel as if the great divide in this country is between the open minded and the stupid. If you can't listen to what Rev. Wright says, try to understand it from his viewpoint and then draw a conclusion, you're probably a television talking head looking for a "gotcha" moment.

[Armstead]

16. There's no point to hand the advantage to stupidity

And even smart people can be stupid, when it comes top the unconscious image that becomes associated with candidates.

[Vinca]

22. It's a shame our country has dumbed down to the extent

politicians have to pander to the stupid. But, you're right, it's true. Last Saturday I overheard a conversation about 9/11 and a guy was talking about the Iraqi ragheads who flew the planes into the buildings because they hate us for our freedoms. (I swear . . . I'm not making it up.)

[cali]

67. our country has been this dumb politically for a long time

nothing new.

[SOS]

80. An old Adlai Stevenson comment

Reporter: You'll win the vote of every single intelligent American.
Stevenson: Unfortunately I need 50% to win.

[EFerrari]

36. The attitude is also partly a result of DLC political theory.

Instead of embracing our coalition and seeking to expand it as we once did, for much too long the DLC has been angling for only enough votes to win. And we all know how well that's worked out for Democrats.

[anonymous171]

13. I don't think this is hurting him, but it's not going to help him either.

[dchill]

15. "But class transcends race."

Don't worry - McCain has no class. Now, Obama - HE has class. :shrug:

[katandmoon]

17. This is payback time for Obama kicking him to the curb

There is no other way to spin it.

[Armstead]

21. If that's the case, Obama ought to kick Wright to the curb himself

[azmouse]

24. How did Obama do that?

Please, I'm sure you have a wonderful explanation and I can hardly wait to hear it. :eyes:

[Armstead]

26. Wright could perceive it that way

At the very least, Wright is not taking Obama's interests into account

[azmouse]

29. Again, I ask 'why would Rev Wright think Obama kicked him to the curb?'

[Armstead]

37. By criticizing and distancing himself from Wright's controversial statements

Obama didn't throw Wright under the bus.

But in Wright's shoes, I can see how he might feel that way from Obama's remarks.

[azmouse]

48. But that would assume that Obama and Wright have not spoken privately.

If their relationship goes back 20 years I'm sure the Rev knew what Sen Obama was going to say and understood why.
And Obama must have known what Wright was saying. Whether he approved or not, well, I don't read minds.

[katandmoon]

86. You don't have to read minds to get what Wright is doing

All you have to do is be familiar with human nature.

[EFerrari]

34. Not at all. And Wright did a great job of defining his sphere

as the church, not the politics. He didn't offer political opinions or even preferences about this race except once, indirectly, in support of Obama.

[katandmoon]

87. Still don't get it, do you? It doesn't matter how wonderfully Wright defines ANYTHING.

If those definitions are falling on deaf ears.

Kudos for defending the man who's going to be responsible for your candidate watching Hillary Clinton take the oath of office in January 2008, though!

[otohara]

19. Ed Shultz Saying

he is magnificent - if people are listening and they aren't STUPID, all will be okay!

[Armstead]

23. Those are big "ifs"

[catcher]

20. If this country is stupid enough to elect McCain after the whats transpired

the past seven and a half years, then we deserve what we get. If our biggest issues in a crumbling economy, a costly and unpopular war, a housing crisis, exploding cost in gas, and foods, a failed heath care system, etc is a pastor then there was never any hope for this country in the first place. Beside McCain has his own crazy pastors to worry about.

[babylonsister]

25. The good rev. isn't doing a damn thing, the m$m is by

concentrating on him instead of the economy, war, etc. I hope you heard his speech last night to the NAACP; if you didn't, you should. This man explained himself, and if Americans can't deal with that, we're doomed anyway. I came away thinking we need to hear more from him, not less.
Having said that, these doom and gloom posts don't serve much purpose imo, unless I'm missing the reasoning for it.

[Armstead]

32. I heard both speeches plus the Q&A

Yes it's primarily the fault of the MSM. Obama's pastor should be a very peripheral issue. But given that fact, Wright could have handled this a whole lot better if he were interested in increasinbg the chances that the US may be electing its first Black president.

I also do think his speech is somewhat racist, to be honest. Right wingers in the past have gotten into big trouble by saying that Blacks and Whites are fundamentally different. Left-brained vs right brained? WTF is that?

The core issues we have to deal with are a lot more fundamental and multi-racial than that kind of a distraction.

[babylonsister]

45. But we are different, just as Italians are different than

Irish, Jews are different than Muslims. Their cultural influences are different, as are their musical preferences. Wright's point is that the differences don't make one group better or worse than the other. I thought his riff on music last night was striking in its simplicity and common sense. I always accuse myself of being an optimist; if the m$m would play THAT soundbite, people might 'get it'.

Wright was defending himself, his church, and his flock after all the recent attacks. I don't blame him at all, and like to think he's informed me. The m$m is spinning his appearances as a detriment; I just don't see it that way.

[Armstead]

50. These are legitimate subjects for discussion

But injecting it into a political campaign is self-defeating.

IMO, the mere fact that Obama is a likely prospect to becomne president is a much bigger racial statement than anything Wright or his opponents can say.

That should be the goal -- Wright should have been smart enough to keep this otehr stuff out of the political campaign at this point.

[kid a]

27. How many more doom and gloom "OH NO" post are you going to make?

Just wondering.
I think we got your point last night.

[Armstead]

33. Probably until I use up my allotment of three per 24 hours...

[nsd]

28. My hope is that this separates Obama from Wright in the public mind.

It's clear that they're not on the same team. If Wright were Obama's friend, he wouldn't have interjected himself into the campaign in this way. I kind of wonder if Wright is actively trying to sabotage Obama, as if to confirm his own view of America. At best Wright just doesn't care what happens in this election. That might be an opening for Obama to walk away from this guy.

[Armstead]

35. I agree -- I originally admired Obama's loyalty.

But since Wright doesn't appear to give a shit about Obama, then Obama ought to throw him under the proverbial bus.

[EFerrari]

Yuo're seriously misreading what just happened. Obama will be fine.

Wright did a good job -- he just walked out of the election. He said he was a pastor, would not comment on the behavior of politicians. Did not say that God wanted Obama to be president. Remember?

So, he did two things. He defended himself and his church AND took himself out of the arena of presidential politics. If the Obama campaign are as good as I think they are, they'll handle this just fine.

[Armstead]

44. I hope you're right

I want to see Obama sail past this, consign it to its rightful place on the margins, convince the voters that it's a manufactured issue and then actually give a knockout blow to racism by becoming the First Black President of the US.

[EFerrari]

49. I know. And after 8 horrible years, who can blame any of us

for being anxious to take back the White House -- especially when our media is toxic as hell.

But, in reality, racism isn't extinguished from the top down, but from the bottom up. I'm sure Obama knows this. And a man of his intellect knew the job was dangerous.

He'll be fine.

[Swamp Rat]

38. I believe you are wrong.

If Hillary gets the nomination, I doubt she will survive the rw, M$M-generated scandals.

[Armstead]

40. I hope so

[MoJoWorkin]

39. Get a grip. This is precisely what they want us to think.

The Corporate powers are doing their best to derail Obama. If it weren't Wright, it would be something else that they manufactured.

Lets just hope that THIS time, enough people are fed up with it, as they are feeling the pinch of $4 a gallon gas, grocery prices skyrocketing , a tanking economy,perpetual war, millions squandered, etc., and are seeing the media whores for what they are.

If not, it is America's loss.

[Armstead]

41. I've got a grip -- I will be ecstatic if my instincts about it are wrong

Just seen it happen too many times to too many good politicians

[PurityOfEssence]

42. It was like Lewis Black reciting Dr. Seuss for naughty toddlers on a time out

One fish, two fish, red fish and ah'm tellin' ya it's a bluuuuue fish!!!

I'm talking about last night's speech in Detroit.

Regardless of the fact that much of what he said was inciteful and undeniable, it was arrogant and angry. To those of us who can't stand religion the very ambience of it was like nails on a chalkboard. The fire and brimstone preacher voice here is coupled with the demand for complete acquiesence and submission, and many of us contrarians rebel at such hauteur.

Amid the wisdom, he provided plenty of sound bites, and the worst of the bunch was this, where he effectively sneers at the way certain white people worship. Not only is this deeply disrespectful, it's just plain stupid to intimate that others just go through the motions.

Follow the link below and go to Part 3 at approximately 9:08. This is a clip that could do irreparable damage.

(normal voice) "You love somebody?" (now with mock-boring white voice) "Oh how I love Jesus because he first loved me." (now with derisive natural voice) "No, no, no, no, no. If ya feel it..." (makes physical motion of aligning his body) "I come from a religious tradition where we shout in the sanctuary and march on the picket line. I come from a religious tradition where we give god the glory and give the devil the blues. The black religious tradition is different; we do it a different way..."

http://www.hiphopmusic.com/2008/04/rev_wright_naacp_spe...

[RichardRay]

83. That's your hang up, not everyone's

You state that the content was "...inciteful and undeniable...", but then note that the issue us your rebellion at the "hauter" in his rhetoric.

I'm not a Christian, my spiritual practice is about as far from the black church tradition as you can get (30 years a practicing Buddhist). I found nothing particularly redolent of "...nails on a chalkboard..." in what he said, it was just good old fashioned preachin'. I also live in a VERY red state with some pretty conservative folks (Wyoming). This morning at the local breakfast place several staunch, church going conservatives were shaking their heads in admiration. They'd been ambushed into seeing/hearing the speech by CNN, but they were clear that "the man can preach"! Remember, in a lot of people's minds that's a good thing.

I say that you're projecting pretty seriously.

[kentuck]

46. I think NC will tell us a lot about how much damage has been done..

if any?

I hope you are wrong, also. But, this large country is not of the same ideas as DU. When the good Reverend mentions Louis Farrakhan as a friend, or as "not an enemy", many people automatically turn him off. He has lost all credibility. Unfortunately, we cannot let the churches, black or white, determine who should be the next President of the US...

[SoonerPride]

51. You're wrong.

Thanks though for your concern.

[Buzz Clik]

54. Well, that's two anti-Wright threads from you today. One more and you can take a rest.

[Armstead]

59. Sorry -- My posting instinct takes over when I'm pissed off

And Rev. Wright pissed me off.

[Buzz Clik]

60. Yeah, we got it. But, what the hell. Put up another thread on the same subject.

Three's a charm, right?

[Armstead]

61. Yeah, yeah...Whatever.

In the future I will try and take into account whether you disapprove of the number of threads I post about something...:)

[Buzz Clik]

69. Not at all. However, rest assured that in the future as well as today ...

... I will have a distaste for one author posting two threads on the same topic when we already have nearly 100 threads on this same topic. Today.

[burythehatchet]

63. Fear sure does cloud the thought process.

[Armstead]

65. 'taint fear -- It's a matter of not liking political stupidity

[MattP]

68. He's a nutjob

I don't know how anyone can say that Wright is not sabotaging Oboma's run for the White house. Saying that he can do whatever he wants and God is going to pick the winner regardless of what he does is crazy talk.

[RamboLiberal]

70. Take a chill pill and Get a Grip

I think at least some in the media are getting some shame over what they've done. Of course others are still clueless.

I'm done worrying if Wright hurts Obama - if he does, then so be it and this country needs to grow up.

If people vote against Obama and their own self-interest based on Reverend Wright and their own prejudices - then they damn well deserve McCain.

[Armstead]

72. THEY may deserve McCain -- But the rest of us don't

Having lived through all of the crap since the 60's, I've "got a grip."

But I'm worried and pissed that the old patterns may reassert themselves yet again.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

76. Martin Luther King was inconvenient for LBJ and Humphrey.

But, not being a "good" Democrat, he kept speaking out.

[ShortnFiery]

77. It's not even *sport* that you folks of "worry" are so predictable.

:P Yes, "your concern" is noted and ... promply dismissed as BUNK. ;)

[Armstead]

84. You will have my blessing to gloat at my errors when it's all over

My "concern" is real, not trollish. But you'll have take my word on that I guess.

If it turns out that I am a worrywart who was wrong, you have my permission to take me out to the woodshed and pound some sense into me.

But on the otehr hand.....

[JoFerret]

79. He has

And I hate to say it too because it is very unfair and very potent.

[Hoof Hearted]

82. Hillary can shake it off and reframe it. Obama cannot. Hillary is our only chance to win.

Wright is 99% Obama's problem and it would be fairly easy for her to deal with by simply saying that Wright is just one guy who doesn't really represent the larger experience and tradition of faith in America, black or brown or white. She wouldn't really have to say much at all about it because she didn't sit her ass in his pew for 20 years.

[eridani]

93. Hillary uses absolutely NOTHING but Rethug frames n/t

[stevietheman]

95. Oh, is Hillary running as an independent? n/t

n/t

[nsd]

88. The one upside of this is that we might have a chance to get Wright out of the way before the fall.

Obama today said clearly that Wright does not represent him or the campaign. That was a good start. As long as Obama emphasizes that Wright's words do not reflect his own views (and are, in some cases, diametrically opposed to them) and steers clear of any future association, it'll be okay. November is a long ways away, and there will be plenty of opportunities (the convention, the debates, the fall campaign) for people to see more of Obama and for him to emphasize real issues.

[anigbrowl]

89. Man up Armstead - nobody votes for a sniveller, they vote for confidence

I have no problem with it at all. By November they'll be used to the guy and even like him.

[Armstead]

97. I'm not running for President -- My snivling is my own

And I prefer to think of it as manly honesty :)

[nichomachus]

90. If Wright is the central issue in the campaign, then idiot Americans

deserve everything they get. Screw 'em.

[TragedyandHope]

91. You are wrong. You can take that to the bank.

[stevietheman]

94. The election is two political lifetimes away. n/t

n/t

[Rosa Luxemburg]

96. Maybe McCain wants to make Wright his running mate?

[eridani]

98. Obviously. The corporate media thinks that people who talk about class--

---are "elitists". In other news, water is wet and babies, puppies and kittens are cute.

[ShortnFiery]

99. Why do I always *bristle* when I read, "I hope I'm wrong BUT? ..." OR "I'm Concerned" Posts? ...

It's always a big time TELL as we say in poker. ;)

[4themind]

100. Enough with the hand wringing please!

Think of it this way, could you have imagined, the amount of changes in the state of this campaign from January to March? And from March till now? Can you imagine how much this campaign has changed over 2 to 3 month increments?? THere's an ETERNITY until the G.E., you can recognize that things don't look as well now, but saying this stuff, THIS far out, is not only uncertain, it creates uncertainty and doubt and feeds on itself. If you want to "hope" that it's wrong, DO something to help stop it, play an active role "phone banking", make a donation. This is a democracy, the HOPEs of others can turn into VOTES, so maybe at the very least you could at least provide som constructive criticism or HOPE that your doubt doesn't spread from your post. I'll kick this back up after the election, and we can talk some more about it then. Later