We will lose GE

[hill_win_2008]

Yeah yeah, I'm all doom and gloom.

I think that Obama will get the nomination for our side, but he will lose to McCain. Judging by all the hatred for her, Hillary won't get the nomination, even though she is more electable than Obama and could be McCain where as Obama can't (see latest AP-Ipsos poll).

Add in this Wright controversy (which will not go away before November no matter what his supporters say). Obama can't win the GE, BUT no one seems to want Hillary to get the nomination on our side.

It will come down to the SDs and they will pick wrong. Too bad. Four more years of mess coming up!

[yardwork]

1. Thank you for your concern.

[MaineDem]

2. I disagree

The Wright thing will be over by the General.

McCain = Bush. That won't help him. We will win and it will be a great thing for the US and the world.

[thereismore]

3. Aw, man, cheep up. The SD's will pick the right candidate. Obama will beat McPain to a pulp. nt

[Tyler Durden]

9. Why do you say that?

Bush essentially TIED twice (within a statistical margin of error), and the Republicans WILL cluster around McCain, because that is what they do, and do so very well.

[Jamastiene]

16. Yes, Republicans are great at marching in LOCK STEP...

mindless drones, that they are. They won't be voting for any of our Democrats. That much is for sure. Democrats, on the other hand, have a habit of voting for either party in the general election, unfortunately. Those will be the deciding factor, Democrats who crossover.

[Tyler Durden]

29. And both campaigns have made that a certainty.

I'm tempted to change my sig line to that, and it bears repeating:

To both campaigns for destroying any chance at party unity in the 2008 election: HERE'S TO YOU...SUCKING MY DICK.

[thereismore]

48. The Dem vote is split at the moment. When we unite, McPain will be down by 20 pts. nt

[JeanGrey]

61. I think you are going to be surprised. They won't cluster

around McShame because a lot of them actually can't stand him. His immigrant stance IS REALLY hurting him amongst the righties. Trust me on this. They will stay home first. (a lot will)

[Eurobabe]

4. thanks to your candidate

you might be correct.

[Tyler Durden]

13. You know, you can say that to a supporter of EITHER candidate.

FACT: Last year at this time, the polls had "Generic Democrat" beating "Any Republican" by 13%.

Now it's a tossup, or McCain, depending on who you believe.

To both campaigns for destroying any chance at party unity in the 2008 election: HERE'S TO YOU...SUCKING MY DICK.

[hill_win_2008]

17. That's helpful n/t

[Eurobabe]

33. If Obama loses to McInsane in November, you can thank the Clintons. n/t

[Deep13]

39. Bullshit. You are delusional.

[JeanGrey]

64. No he isn't. Had she dropped out by now and supported

Obama, both her and Bill, a lot of this shit wouldn't be happening or the effect would be way down. But as know she has too much love of herself. One consulation will be the eyes that have been opened about the Clintons!

[hill_win_2008]

43. Drinking too much of your own drink there friend n/t

[JeanGrey]

65. Somebody has to tell the truth.

[VotesForWomen]

73. another whiner dem blaming their loss on somebody else. nt

[Deep13]

32. Don't blame her for your guy's inadequacies.

All she has done is run a primary campaign. If you can't see your candidates shortcomings, that is your fault for being dazzled by mediocrity. You are painting Hillary as the scape goat because you have to blame someone and you can't bear to criticize the messiah. If Hillary has the power to make Obama unelectable, then that should tell you he never had a chance against the R. propoganda machine anyway. Or do you think they will hold back?

[Tarheel_Dem]

45. At this point, I don't think most Obama supporters care who gets the

nomination as long as it's not Hillary. She should not & will not be rewarded for dragging the party through the muck. If she gets the nomination, we will lose. The grass/netroots, and the AA community cannot support this woman after all she's done. A lot of people, on both sides, have said they will work to defeat the opposing primary candidate. There will have to be some third option, if Sen. Obama is passed over by the party.

[TheWraith]

50. No, she's run a smear campaign that would make Rove proud.

If you can't see that she's deliberately tried to poison the well--and to do so from INSIDE the party, which is worse than anything the Republicans could do--then you're simply blinding yourself. Turn it around: if Hillary were the great candidate you claim, she wouldn't have to resort to race-baiting, muslim smears, lying, cheating, and negative campaigning against somebody who she claims is an unqualified lightweight... somebody who's still handily beating her without having lost his appeal to any but the hardcore Clintonites.

[StevieM]

66. Obama's campaign is hateful and vicious. He has smeared a wonderful woman and an outstanding

public official. Very un-senatorial behavior on his part.

Steve

[tridim]

5. So we should just give up because you say so?

No thanks. I'm going to fight for our nominee.

[hill_win_2008]

11. I'll fight too

Hey, I'll fight and vote for whoever our nominee is. I hope I'm wrong. Just saying that where it stands now, we will lose with Obama.

[John Q. Citizen]

34. Then quit wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood. Gloom and doom doesn't win, ever.

[tridim]

36. You've already given up and given in to the establishment.

I don't believe you at all.

[SoCalDem]

40. I simply cannot imagine ANYONE republican or dem

wanting to listen to that singsong-y droning of the increasingly lackluster McCain for 4 years.... He's lost "it"..and we ALL know it...R or D..


and as for your "gal"..I doubt that we want a scold in the White House either.. By her campaign "performance" it's obvious that she's a person who will literally DO anything to get elected.. Discretion is a greater part of valor, and she's highly challenged in that department. She's deceptive, vindictive and divisive to the nth degree.

i know she wants it so badly she can taste it..but that's NO reason for her to BE president..

[onenote]

6. the unvarnished truth: there is no guarantee that either HRC or Obama can win

and no certainty that either will lose. Anyone who thinks that they know how the GE will play out should please post information about stock prices between now and then so we can take advantage of their psychic powers.

[hokies4ever]

7. Move to Iraq then

since Hillary sounds like she wants to make it our 51st state. Anyway, how can you remove troops from Iraq while starting a war with Iran? It just doesn't make sense.

[grantcart]

8. Funny how the person that has lost 30 elections in this campaign cycle is

laughingly referred to as 'more electable'. The reality is that in the last year she has gained not a single point.

She started at 40% of the Dem party and she is at 40% now.

To be electable you actually do have to go out and recruit new voters.

[bridgit]

35. Your 40/40% mainstay point is well taken. There was once a time when Obama was thought...

to be conveyed on angel hair clouds down to where mere mortals live their day to day lives...now he's a black politician in a tailored suit. That doesn't go unnoticed either. Standing your ground/holding your own in a world where the messiahs (listen to Rev. Wright), and the founders of great/world religions are black (listen to Farrakhan) is par for the course.

Where others have shot less than par :cry:

[elocs]

10. Well, I guess we can just shut down everything here now since it's over.

Oh well, it was nice while it lasted. I love the circular firing squad here though. Plus, you get to eat what you kill.

[Colobo]

12. Obama_Win_2008

[RiverStone]

14. Why post doom and gloom?

Your right to have an OP.

Just wondering what purpose does it serve (to say the sky is falling) on DU? :shrug:

[hill_win_2008]

20. For a change?

Just wanted something besides all the hate and infighting. And, considering all that going on, it led to gloom and doom :)

[tridim]

25. Why does "doom and gloom" make you smile?

:hi:

[RiverStone]

31. The infighting will get worse...before it gets better

I promise you, it will get better. But first, we need to hit the apex of worse - that will happen just before Obama is declared the winner. Watch out for this next week, it will be a rough one.

After the storm passes....

The Dems will do so good this fall - you will post 'bloom' instead of 'doom'.:+

[rucky]

15. When we picked Obama and Hillary as our frontrunners...

we made decisions we knew were not on the path of least resistance.

We got our wish of having a minority nominee - which is cool. But now's not the time to get weak-kneed.

If we wanted to take the easy road, Biden would have had it locked up by now.

[Clark2008]

46. Well, we didn't have the cream of the crop to begin with.

:shrug:

[SoFlaJet]

18. another concerned Clintonite heard from

it's another one of the tactics we've seen on and off here for last few months at DU-the "oh it's so sad we're going to lose" too bad Hillary won't be able to save us bullcrap.

[book_worm]

19. well I guess Hillary blew it didn't she?

by taking it for granted that she was on the way to the coronation.

[LakeSamish706]

21. Unless they figure out a way to steal this election there is no way McCain wins. n/t

[jpertello]

22. HAHA! Your Freudian Slip is showing!

"she is more electable than Obama and could be McCain"

[mkultra]

23. sorry but every poll disagrees with you

Bot only do most polls have McCain being beaten by both, they also show Obama over clinton in GEs.

Plus, most of clinton's negatives are HARD negatives while Obama's are soft. That means they can be swayed.


Clinton has lost the nom and could possible lose the GE if she got it.

[hill_win_2008]

27. Read my message?

The AP-Ispos poll has Clinton over McCain 50-41 and Obama over McCain 46-44.

[mkultra]

37. maybe you should check the other polls

You will see a vast majority have had Obama above McCain with Clinton below.

[hill_win_2008]

41. And yet...

2 seconds ago, you said that "every poll" shows her losing.

Look, it will be Obama v. McCain ok? I get it by now. Just saying that I'm not comfortable with that.

[mkultra]

54. what im saying is that up to this point

Its been Obama over McCain in every poll and still is. There is always going to be poll variance and i think you should look to all the polls.

You have to consider the fact that Clinton's negative numbers are hard negatives. This means the cannot be retrieved. THAT is a recipe for disaster.

[aquarius dawning]

58. What you have been saying is wrong

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/oh/ohio_mccain_vs_obama-400.html"> McCain_vs_Obama in Ohio—McCain+2.6
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/oh/ohio_mccain_vs_clinton-399.html: ">McCain_vs_Clinton in Ohio---Hillary +5
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/fl/florida_mccain_vs_obama-418.html:"> McCain_vs_Obama in Florida—McCain +11.7
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/fl/florida_mccain_vs_clinton-417.html ">McCain_versus_Hillary in Florida--McCain +0.3
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/pa/pennsylvania_mccain_vs_obama-244.html "> Mccain_vs_Obama in Pennsylvania--Tie
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/pa/pennsylvania_mccain_vs_clinton-243.html "> McCain_vs_Clinton in Pennsylvania--Clinton +5.2

Clinton is more electable where it matters, in the swing states. Are you so new to thisgame that you don't know how important swing states are?

[aquarius dawning]

44. Not in the key battleground states. She wins the key states which he loses; hence, we all loses.

Obama people never want to talk about th battle ground states for some reason despite the decisive role that they have played in the past two elections. We lost 2000 because of Florida and we lost in 2004 because of Ohio. In 2008, we'll lose because of both of them plus Missouri and probably Pennsylvania as well. McCain is looking at a very decisive win against us.

[mkultra]

56. id be interested in seeing the poll numbers

Clinton does do better in some of last elections battle ground states but Obama does well in the south against McCain which Hillary doesn't.

Fact is that no Dem has ever won without the south and Obama has consistently done better in national polls against McCain than Clitnonb.

[aquarius dawning]

57. here are the real clear politics poll averages

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/oh/ohio_mccain_vs_obama-400.html"> McCain_vs_Obama in Ohio—McCain+2.6
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/oh/ohio_mccain_vs_clinton-399.html: ">McCain_vs_Clinton in Ohio---Hillary +5
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/fl/florida_mccain_vs_obama-418.html:"> McCain_vs_Obama in Florida—McCain +11.7
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/fl/florida_mccain_vs_clinton-417.html ">McCain_versus_Hillary in Florida--McCain +0.3
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/pa/pennsylvania_mccain_vs_obama-244.html "> Mccain_vs_Obama in Pennsylvania--Tie
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/pa/pennsylvania_mccain_vs_clinton-243.html "> McCain_vs_Clinton in Pennsylvania--Clinton +5.2


Then there's this link which has been quitepopular here at DU for the past two Presidential elections:
http://www.electoral-vote.com/

This site does a good job of illustrating the point that Obama isn't more electable than Hillary.

edit to fix links

[calmblueocean]

71. I just thought it was interesting that the poll has Obama beating McCain

.. and your post claims it as evidence that Obama can't beat McCain.

I mean, whatever, one poll proves nothing, and even a basketful of polls taken now won't be relevant in November, but it looks like you were being purposefully deceptive in your OP. Even if you weren't.

[aquarius dawning]

38. In a state by state election, the nationwide polls you refer to are irrelevant

The only polls that really matter are the ones in the swing states, specifically in Ohio and Florida IMO. The next election will come down to these two states...again. Missouri and Pennsylvania may play a roll too. The bitch for Obama is that he loses all four of these states to McCain whereas Hillary wins them against him. So, you see, in all actuality, Hillary is more electable.

Check it out, remeber this site from the last election: http://www.electoral-vote.com/

[Shoelace]

47. Electoral votes: Clinton, 291, McCain, 237: Obama, 243, McCain, 269

how soon we forget about "electoral votes" according to the population, number of electoral votes per state. I can't make this stuff up!
I've been watching this website since the 2004 elections. They also have state senator, congresspersons races and how they shape up as well.

Below is the graph showing that Clinton leads McCain 291 to 237 in electoral votes:





The link takes you to the Obama vs McCain map


http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Obama/Maps/Apr28.html

[Red Zelda]

24. Soldier-boy-war-hero-troop-guy McCain is a real man!

Can't you see? He'll fix everything.
We are so fucked.

[NorthCarolina]

26. I lost you at

the "Hillary is more electable than Obama" part. There is not one single perspective from this race that would validate that statement, in fact all the evidence clearly refutes that claim.

[Deep13]

28. Honestly, neither is all that strong.

McCain is weak too. As a result, the country will revert to its Republican default setting.

[azmouse]

30. Oh for Pete's sake!

Go stamp your big feet somewhere else.
You sound like a 3 yo who can't get their own way and is throwing a 'doom and gloom' tantrum.

WAAAAHHHHH! Only MY candidate is electable.!! WAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!

[elfin]

42. The basic question is.. do GE voters hate Hillary more than African Americans?

Or do they fear one more than another?

I thik the Hillary hatred is more potent than that toward Blacks.

Either way, we are screwed with the Rethug efficient and endless hate and slime machine.

I, too, am very pessimistic given that the MSM is playing lap dog to smears so that the fight will continue.

If Hillary claws her way to the nomination, all her new "friends" - Scaife, Fox and Murdoch will snarl into her via Bill's affairs and horrid money deals and pour money into making McBush seem palatable.

The new young voters drawn to the Dems by Obama will stay home - we lose yet again.

[Robbins]

51. History

April Is not November.Back In 2000 this time Bush was leading Gore by double digets,and In 1992
Bill Clinton was behind Bush 1.It Is stupid to say what they say now will be what they say In the fall.Hillary Is disliked the most.How In the world do people think people will beat Mccain with an
unlikable candiate.The MSM Isn't hitting Hillary,and Mccain Is getting a free ride.If Blacks have
negative feelings for the clintons what makes you think Independents will love the choice of Hillary.To beat Mccain we have to disprove the maverick Image and show how connected he Is to Bush and the Bush agenda.The CLintons have prasied Mccain over Obama.If you don't think the Right wing will use those to attack Hillary If she can take It from Obama you are delsional.Hillary supporters
always bring up Florida and Ohio.Hillary could lose Blue states Oregon,Washington State,Wisconsion,
and Michigan.The Gore States of New Mexico and Iowa,and the Kerry State New Hampshere.Florida Is not
going to be easy for any Democrat to win.Yes Hillary does better than Obama In Ohio but Obama Is still clsoe enough he can compete there,and many polls have Obama doing well In PA.Using april
poll numbers to say Obama can't win Is stupid,and she has own bad poll problems.

[TheWraith]

49. Congratulations. You're wrong about almost everything.

What you're not wrong about: Obama will get the nomination.

What you are wrong about: Hillary is NOT the more electable candidate by any possible measurement. The polls do not show her beating McCain and Obama losing, they show the opposite. Obama can and will win the general election.

Thank you for your concern trolling.

[aquarius dawning]

60. why does BO lose against McCain in all the battleground states then?

while Hillary beats him or, in the case of Florida, does 11.4 points bettert han BO.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/oh/ohio_mccain_vs_obama-400.html"> McCain_vs_Obama in Ohio—McCain+2.6
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/oh/ohio_mccain_vs_clinton-399.html: ">McCain_vs_Clinton in Ohio---Hillary +5
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/fl/florida_mccain_vs_obama-418.html:"> McCain_vs_Obama in Florida—McCain +11.7
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/fl/florida_mccain_vs_clinton-417.html ">McCain_versus_Hillary in Florida--McCain +0.3
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/pa/pennsylvania_mccain_vs_obama-244.html "> Mccain_vs_Obama in Pennsylvania--Tie
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/pa/pennsylvania_mccain_vs_clinton-243.html "> McCain_vs_Clinton in Pennsylvania--Clinton +5.2

[Forkboy]

67. Because people like you threaten not to vote for him?

:shrug:

[aquarius dawning]

70. It isn't a threat actually

and supporters of BO have said the same things. Regardless, the poster I was talking to is wrong as is anybody else claiming that BO is more electable based on polling data. That simply isn't true.

[Beregond2]

52. You sound

exactly like my brother. Apparently facts mean nothing to you, so I won't bother reciting them.

[spanone]

53. are you speaking on behalf of the republicons?

[ProSense]

55. "We" as in Hillary's camp? That's not true

because she can't lose a contest she's not in.

Obama will win.

[zulchzulu]

59. So go join a board talking about how you gravitate to losers

Obama is going to kick McSame's ass. Either help or get the hell out of the way.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

62. I rebuke this.

[fishnfla]

63. no we wont b/c she wont

[rasputin1952]

68. You are wrong...a sack of wet dogshit could beat McCain...

he has nothing. The RW pundits and crap slingers know this, that's why they can't say anything about McCain that's positive, it's all about attacking the D's.

I'm in Nebraska, and there is a deep undercurrent against McCain. In fact, NE might, just might, go Blue this election. In all seriousness, wait until the first "debate" w/McCain, he'll ramble on, babble like a fool then blow his top...it will be all over in just a few minutes.

[DearAbby]

69. Bzzzzzzzzzzz sorry wrong answer

but don't leave yet, listen what we have for parting gifts for playing our game...Don?

[VotesForWomen]

72. you may be right; dems have a way choosing the wrong nominee. nt

[Emit]

74. "Hillary ... could be McCain... "?

:rofl:

[LisaL]

75. No shit. I think all of this is going toward President McCain.