It is an embarrassment to Democratic Underground and the Democratic Party as a whole.

[TheWraith]

You know what I'm talking about. The citing of right-wing "news" sources like Fox and NewsMax, trying to use their fiction to attack other Democrats. The repeating of myths and talking points right out of the mouth of the RNC. Smears, lies, and half-truths to make Karl Rove grin.

This kind of behavior is an embarrassment to Democratic Underground, and those who engage in it should be ashamed of themselves. Either they're behaving in a completely and shamelessly amoral way, or their views are so malleable that they can actually make themselves believe these things.

It's one thing to argue vehemently on issues of policy, or even style, or honesty. That's fine. Disagree to your heart's content. Fight, yell, insult each other. But don't bring out propaganda and treat it like it's fact, because that makes you a hypocrite.

We all know that if it were Republicans using these tactics, they would be universally condemned here. So don't anybody pretend that these made-up smears about "patriotism" and "toughness" we've railed against for years are now suddenly valid issues. Or that rumors and whisper campaigns are the same thing as facts. Or that people who were respected yesterday are targets for slime today because they disagree with you.

Because if you do, then you've sold out one of the biggest things that's supposed to make us different from them, which is being grounded in the real world, not in a fantasy made of spin and myth.

[NanceGreggs]

1. K & R - well said! n/t

[TheWraith]

10. Thank you kindly. That means quite a bit coming from you. nt

[QC]

2. I agree. It used to be that posting crap from Krauthammer, Drudge, Newsmax,

Wingnut Daily, Brooks, Noonan, etc. would get a person bounced out of here. Now it's a constant occurrence.

Kicked and recommended!

[redqueen]

3. But... it's "just politics"!

:sarcasm:

K&R

[calmblueocean]

4. Democrats should be defending other Democrats and saving their attacks for McCain

Each time a Democrat tries to take down Hillary or Obama, it just helps McCain. Might as well write him a check.

[rniel]

5. DU has become a lot more like

Freerepublic seems to me.

[file83]

27. I wouldn't go so far as to say that. Afterall, we're not morans!!!!!1

I'm series!! We're not!!

[Skittles]

45. THIS IS HUGH !!!

YOU ARE TOO!!! :7

[comradebillyboy]

53. there is no shortage of morans at DU

nt

[NashVegas]

6. Unfortunately, Most of the Lefty Media

Has been co-opted by the left wing of the Capitalist party. This leaves many on the left with nowhere to go but Fox to find criticism of the left wing of Capitalist party.

Thank goodness for Corrente Wire!

[TheWraith]

19. Are you for real?

Because I could only imagine your words being a joke of some kind, implying that Fox would offer anything but Republican propaganda, and yet you seem to be lacking a sarcasm smiley.

[NashVegas]

20. Hint: GE Pays Keith Olbermann's Salary

While Phil Donohue had the highest ratings among their pre-war talk shows and got canned.

Please consider the implications.

[muryan]

50. Yea and we know Keith never speaks out against

corporations? :sarcasm:

Get a grip, just because his salary comes from GE (one of the better corps in my opinion) doesn't mean he's compromised by it

[roseBudd]

7. If not for a preference for a certaincandidate DUers would be embracing Reverend Wright

[FrenchieCat]

9. Yep.

It's all about any means to the end.

:puke:

[redqueen]

11. That's the impression I have as well.

Sad times.

[Texas Hill Country]

39. i would never and will never embrace that man ever. i find much of his worldview reprehensible.

[roseBudd]

55. The genocide of Native Americans & slaves? Bombing other countries?

[CakeGrrl]

8. Somwhere, Karl Rove is sitting back laughing his ass off

at a bunch of Democrats chasing each others' tails.

[haymakeragain]

Rove's not sitting back, he's on the phone

with the Clinton camp. The parallels are just too glaring. Look at the Hillarians, right on message. It's like an '04 redux.

[KAZ]

12. Coming out of self-imposed exile to K&R this.

[SeattleGirl]

13. Hear! Hear!

I get so disgusted when I see posts using blatantly right-wing sites to support whatever point the poster is trying to make.

Seems that not long ago, stuff like that was jumped on by pretty much everyone who read a post using those sites.

People need to knock it the fuck off, and go back to using sites that don't get most of their talking points from Karl Rove's ass.

[jwirr]

14. Yes, I refuse to watch them and I don't care to read them either. So

I ignore posts that have them on.

[Zodiak]

15. There was another thread about this a couple of weeks ago

It got locked because the mods feel that right-wing sources are okay as long as it is germane to the discussion.

Here is the relevant quote (I do NOT agree with how it is being used now):

Members are permitted to link to highly partisan conservative websites, provided that they are doing so in the proper context.

So it is technically not against the rules, but then again using right-wing sources to try to cut down the presumptive nominee of the Democratic primary is really stretching this rule. I mean reallllly stretching.

I cannot stand the DLC, but I do not need to link to right-wing sources to put arguments together. After all, I attack them from the left.

[cui bono]

54. And yet there are left wing websites that are not permitted. And then there's the 9/11 Dungeon.

Sheesh. What craziness.

[AlinPA]

16. Yes, this year there has been a large increase in posts about what some slob

on Fox "News" said. Now, I think a significant percentage of the posters here watch Fox "News" regularily. I've always seen Fox "News" as a propaganda channel.

[JuniperLea]

17. Add all blogs to that and I'm in

Just because someone pays for a website it's no sign they have half a brain or half an inkling as to what is going on in politics today. DU is full of opinion, and that's enough for me. I don't need bloggers with their opinions masquerading as truth, and have DUers citing their blogs as a source is double dumb.

[4themind]

18. Hope they have no regrets later.

It's like you have an army marching on a city, but you have many citizens in the city that join this advancing army to sling arrows against the citizenry that they disagree with, and after they're wounded/killed, THEN they try to hold off the advance back in the city again. There may be some hard lessons to be learned from this, I sincerely hope that the arrow slingers are aware of and are capable of accepting the risk.

[dailykoff]

21. They're taking trolling to a whole new level.

Funny how Hillary brings out the haters.

[Stand and Fight]

28. Funny that you completely missed the point of the post in your partisan rush. n/t

[Scurrilous]

22. K & R

:thumbsup:

[Major Hogwash]

23. A whole lot of holes in them thar stories they be tellin' round the campfires late at night.

There we was, just me and Corporal Hillary.
I told the corporal, "save the last bullet for yourself", just in case we were overrun on the tarmac.

Then she shot me in the foot.
Then she shot herself in the foot.

When the paramedics arrived, she shot both of them in the foot.
The spare paramedics rushed in to help out, but she shot both of them in the foot, too.

That was when the radio came alive, as it squawked out amidst the silence, only briefly interrupted by all of the groans of us who had been shot in the foot already.
It was the Colonel!
He wanted whoever was doing the shooting to put down their gun and come out of the plane right now.
But, the corporal just sat there, steely eyed and mumbling to herself something about, "from my cold dead hands" and the rest of us were plenty skeered then, let me tell ya.

The next thing I knew, she got up, hobbled to the door of the transport plane, shot a reporter in the foot who was standing near the door, walked out into the bright light of the sun and screamed "I'm a man, not a horse".
'Course none of us knew what the hell she was talking about at that moment.
And that was when the big net came down and covered her up and they took her away.

As I was recuperating later in the hospital I often thought, "that could've been me".
Then I realized no, that was just the morphine drip talking.
Nah, I never would have done it that way.
I doubt I'll ever get over Macho Grande.

[kid a]

24. K & R

[kid a]

25. k

[avrdream]

26. Damn, what did I miss?

Sounds like I would agree with you, though.

[TheWraith]

32. It's no one thing, more like a pattern.

The thing that set me off in particular was somebody pulling out and presenting as fact the two-year-old RW nonsense story about Keith Olbermann supposedly having a one-night-stand with a woman and then behaving badly about it. It's a Fox con-job, but this person was using it to bash Keith because they disagreed with things he'd said about the primary.

[donheld]

29. I really wish the Administration of DU

would do more to combat this. It may be wrong to say that but it's the way I feel. This crap makes them look bad too.

[cliffordu]

30. keeeeked!!!

[Emit]

31. K&R

:thumbsup:

[Tommy_Carcetti]

33. Here's a post that IS worth recommending.

As I have. Squirrel free, my friend, squirrel free.

[harun]

34. I would love to see DU have an official black list (n/t)

[TheWraith]

36. We do, but it's highly selective.

Only lunatic fringe and conspiracy theory sources like Wayne Madsen, LittleGreenFootballs, Prison Planet, etcetera are banned.

[harun]

43. Does it actually kick in if someone is posting a link to them or

is it just a list somewhere of sites for mods to watch out for?

[walldude]

35. K&R I posted in my "asshole" thread about how DU used

to see right through the smears and lies. We used to wait on Fridays for the news dump to see what important shit they were trying to hide from us. Now? Now we grab at any little thing that might help "our" candidate no matter what it is or where it comes from. We are acting just like the Republicans, except that they attack us. If could expend this kind of energy attacking them we might actually win this election.

[santamargarita]

37. I agree! Screw the fascist media - we don't need their lies here!

-

[samsingh]

38. i hate when we quote right wing source like drudge the sludge

[jettison]

40. My pops

... is the General Freepy Freeperson. And I can assure you with 100% certainty, that he is laughing his ass off at us, along with all of his buddies in Freepersville. Every swipe we take at each other is literally a giggle point for the Repubs. They've never had it easier, and we can thank ourselves.

And you know what? I laugh along with him. Every time I hear an Obama supporter say "I won't vote for Hillary in the general" and everytime I hear a Clinton supporter say "My vote is for McCain" I laugh along with him because it's either laugh or cry. That crowd is laughable.

If you're one of those that are willing to throw away your vote, you're not a Democrat. You're just a Republican's wet dream, and a spineless cretin. I've lost all respect I may have had for you.

My dad, co-creator of a very well publicized Hillary Clinton smear campaign, having the time of his life. I've never seen him happy. To all of the assholes among us... Here's a big "Thanks!" from my dad the Freeper - you dumb bastards.

[Perry Logan]

41. The Clintophobes are walking encyclopedias of right-wing disinformation.

[NorthCarolina]

42. K&R Here here...

:applause:

[Tommy_Carcetti]

44. To paraphrase Boris Yelstin:

"Now for the first time I can tell you -- GD: P is a disaster."

[ChairmanAgnostic]

46. If I may disagree to a limited degree?

I agree with the tone and the content of your post, and applaud the fine way you put it. But, you must recognize the enemy, you must be on notice of their tactics, aims, lies, and bull. AND we have to respond, when appropriate, to the worst of their excesses.

Unless we cite to those jerks, we cannot respond. Unless we see, ID, and understand their targets, we cannot "resource" a defense against it.

It is very different thing to discuss what they say, and quote them as a source, I admit, but sometimes, that line can get blurry.

[uponit7771]

47. Someone should do a running tally of the time posting for people who source Reich wing sites

[Dr Fate]

48. The use of race-baiting code is an un welcome suprise as well.

Willie Horton style association games and racist code words used to be a tool of conservatives to rile up angry white voters- now it appears to be the pet tool of sizable portion of otherwise good DEMS- a real shame.

[Maine-ah]

49. k/r

[rhett o rick]

51. Well put. k & r nm

[valerief]

52. There are democrats and there are molecrats. I think you're talking about the latter. nt