If You Believe There Is A God, Do You Believe He/She Would Love or Bless

[Uncle Joe]

Slavery against African Americans, Genocide or taking the land of the Native Americans, Jim Crow and Lynchings, Internment of Japanese Americans while their sons, brothers, fathers and uncles fought and died for the United States in Europe becoming the highest decorated unit in the war, the experimentation of allowing African Americans do have syphilis in Tuskegee, not allowing blacks and whites to eat in the same restaurant or drink from the same fountains because blacks were viewed as inferior.


Scroll down for my answer if you wish.
















Personally I believe if there is a God/Goddess he or she blesses or loves some things and hates or damns others, however no nation is given a blank check as to it's behavior. While some may have a problem with the term God Damn America, and growing up I had a problem with the term God Damn period. However today I've come to the conclusion the term God Bless America is divisive in it self as it separates us from the rest of humanity. If you believe God created Earth, it only goes to follow that we should ask God to bless Earth, lest God come to view us as selfish and uncaring of our brothers and sisters not fortunate enough to be of this nation.

Having said all that I don't believe any pastor or person should keep quiet about it just because the truth hurts and media castigation. Somebody wiser than me once said "The truth shall set you free" and I believe the Reverend Wright has done his fair share of breaking our emotional and mental chains.

[Forkboy]

1. That stuff would piss her off.

;)

[midnight]

15. I second that....

[blm]

2. This atheist believes the God I was TOLD to believe in WOULD DAMN THOSE ACTIONS.

.

[harun]

3. The media thinks they are the ones people should be listening

to for all their thought instructions. They can't stand to think preachers actually talk about the world around them and injustice in it.

Mainstream corporate media is fascist. Anything that doesn't tow their line is against them and must be destroyed.

Got a bit of news for them, people aint drinking the kool-aid no more.

[ananda]

4. I'm wondering what people's gods really are.

Sometimes I think it's the tv, and for
many "god" could be cable news or talkhate
radio.

By that I mean, they worship what they sit
in front of as an "altar" and listen to as
though a "preacher." And these days, there's
not much difference between church and tv,
or between preacher and tv talking heads.

[MonkeyFunk]

5. If the God of the Bible were real

he sure did a piss-poor job of condemning slavery in his holy book.

10 major rules to live by, and keeping the sabbath day is more important than not enslaving your fellow man?

[Uncle Joe]

8. Then what would Jesus do, wasn't he the redeemer? n/t

[MonkeyFunk]

11. Jesus didn't condemn slavery either

:shrug:

[Uncle Joe]

13. Jesus taught to love one another as your self, including your enemies,

if you love someone as yourself, logic dictates that is a stance against slavery. I believe had Jesus come out openly condemning slavery, he would've been crucified long before he was.

[MonkeyFunk]

18. Really?

You think condemning slavery was too politically dangerous for Jesus?

[Uncle Joe]

23. I contend he did condemn it as the times allowed.

Jesus had many messages or teachings to pass on, and just as mustard seed grows in to a plant takes time so did his teachings.

[MonkeyFunk]

24. well I think he didn't do a very good job of it

Look, the Bible not only fails to condemn slavery, but explicitly allows it. There's no getting around that.

[Uncle Joe]

26. I contend Jesus set the basis for the elimination of slavery with his teachings, if

you believe in evolution, rarely does fundamental change happen overnight and apparently from the Bible even God evolved. Keep in mind this was 1900+ years before there was a telegraph, much less Internet.

[patrice]

6. There are polls on the subject that show most Americans think they are going to heaven,

because "Jesus saves" all anyone needs to do is believe, get baptized, and say "in Jesus's name" and you can live in an Eternal Cupcake Land.

Americans don't believe in Damnation anymore. That's why we can kill INNOCENT children on the other side of the Earth and call it Patriotism and that's why people are mad at Rev. Wright.

[Uncle Joe]

12. If Americans don't believe in damnation anymore,

they have nothing to fear from Wright's comments.

[patrice]

19. Interesting point.

If not afraid, would they be angry, because he disrupts their holiness?

[Uncle Joe]

25. Yes, I believe so, but

it's a nationalistic holiness, not a religious one.

[patrice]

36. Yes, and the whole notion of heaven and/or damnation has been translated

into elsewhere elsewhen, even though, as far as I know in Catholic dogma (the one I'm most familiar with as a "retired" Catholic) the matter of where, exactly, heaven/hell are is not defined. We are told our actions have consequence to whatever it is that our souls are and those consequences can be the experience of something called heaven or something called hell.

I believe these things are true, though I no longer see them in a superstitious way. I see it very concretely now, an organic whole that changes character depending upon what our actions are.

[Uncle Joe]

50. That's about the way I feel, Patrice

viewing all of humanity and for that matter the Earth it self as an organic whole and everything on this physical plane is recycled ever dividing in to altered forms.

The closest observable analogy I can come to on a micro level would be a developing fetus.

[patrice]

55. And everything about you, every second of your life, everything you did,

everything you didn't do, every conscious act, every unconscious event, it ALL adds up to configure that moment when "you" become it again.

Nothing is really small and nothing is really big, though we pretend that things are all of the time.

[Bucky]

7. God hates loaded questions

[depakid]

9. I don't know- the Old Testament God wasn't very nice...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. Any self respecting deity would be indifferent to the doings of a minor self destructive

species busily eating it's way out of existence.

We're only important because we're fond of telling ourselves that we are.

[Uncle Joe]

27. My own hypothesis from crude observation of shape and function of our natural surroundings on a

micro and macro level lead me to believe we're the equivalent of a developing fetus.

[Blarch]

14. I voted yes.

If you read the bible you will see god DOES bless these actions. For gods sake, he ordered the death of infants and innocent children.

He is a brutal god. The bible tells us this much.

[Uncle Joe]

21. In the Old Testament he also sent the flood and later was said to have regretted it

and that he would never wipe all humankind out again.

I agree with the brutality part, but I believe as humankind evolved so did it's God or vice versa and that's what Jesus was all about.

[Solon]

33. He only promised that he wouldn't flood the world again, not that he wouldn't wipe out humanity...

again. Granted, we are talking about folklore based on ancient Sumerian legends, but the God of the Bible didn't regret The Flood, just promised to do the same thing in a different way next time.

[Uncle Joe]

35. Yes other than the end of times,

as there must an end to all things I suppose, but why make the promise of not flooding if there was no regret?

[Solon]

39. I don't pretend to know the mind of an ancient Canaanite God...

But I don't remember an expression of regret in the Bible itself. Granted, assuming such a God did communicate to humans thousands of years ago about a flood, the Bible itself would be hearsay and inaccurate, not to mention edited heavily.

[Uncle Joe]

43. I've always thought the Bible was edited heavily.

I believe it was the Apocrypha that was dropped all together.

[Solon]

53. Its much more involved than that, the Bible wasn't intended to be a book anyways...

Of course, there was a Christian Council on this, back in I think 315 C.E. or thereabouts, and they dropped some books, added others, etc.

But even before that, the Bible is, and always will be, a collection of stories from various different tribes and city states from the Middle East, from Persian, Egyptian, Akkadian, Sumerian, Babylonian, and Canaanite sources from many different time periods as well. Most of these started as oral stories that were eventually written down, and if you have every played "telephone" as a kid, you know how messages can be messed up when you rely on memory and recall alone, rather than the written word.

The Old Testament of the Bible actually is quite interesting to study the development of Israelite beliefs regarding deity, and the transitioning from polytheism to monotheism. Certain books of the Bible, such as Genesis, make polytheistic references, especially in the original Hebrew. Not to mention the other references to Gods and Goddesses, at least one of which was given a place in the Temple of Solomon, Asherah, consort of Yahweh, Queen of Heaven, had an altar in the Temple. She was quite popular at the time.

Indeed, God himself wasn't always one figure, but actually at least 3, the first was the leader of the Canaanite Pantheon, his name was El, another was the mysterious God of Abraham, and the third was a thunder God of the Levites who lived in a Mountain in the Desert, most likely Mount Sinai. Every tribe of Israel, during the Exodus, had a banner that represented their own Gods, for none of them worshiped the same one. Its confusing, contradictory, but remember, the Bible is based on oral stories that were passed on from generation to generation, and those stories changed as the Israelites evolved from polytheistic to monotheistic faith. Indeed, most of these stories weren't written down until well after Monotheism was established, so it was in the best interests of the priests to suppress the polytheistic past that was present in the stories they were writing down. The editing process started early on.

[Speck Tater]

16. If you believe that a programmer designed a video game

do you think the programmer loves Mario, and hates the monsters that kill Mario?

The question is meaningless. If there is a God who created all of this stuff, then it is ALL here for a reason, and the whole concept of "loving" or "hating" any part of it is really kind of silly. None of it is "good" or "evil", except as seen from WITHIN the context of the game itself. Viewed from OUTSIDE the game, it's all just part of the design, and all part of what makes the game interesting, entertaining, and educational.

Can a pawn ever realize that chess is just a game? Can the pawn ever go beyond the concept that the opposing rook is "evil", or "dangerous"? But to the human player, is the rook "evil"? To even ask that question is nonsense.

The questions you ask only have meaning to those who are stuck INSIDE the game. God is, by definition, OUTSIDE the game, and the questions are meaningless. If you don't see the distinction, then you truly are stuck inside the game. I would prescribe Insight Meditation to get unstuck.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

28. I like your thinking. I don't think God interferes with day to day events.

If he did, I think we'd hear more about "real" miracles, instead of weak-sauce on toast.

And this leads me to why religion almost ends up causing more trouble then good. It distracts us too much from solving problems on our own, and realizing that it's all up to us.

The game programmer needs to look over his shoulder more often though, just to make sure he isn't getting busted for wasting time on his hobby. ;)

[JuniperLea]

32. I really hate seeing athletes pray for success before their games...

And I really hate seeing any branch of the government do that too! Ugh... stupid little humans...

[Uncle Joe]

37. Do you think God would interfere with the development of a fetus or would you?

I suppose it depends on what needed to be done or what the definition of creation is?

The people stuck inside the game you speak of are being programmed by the corporate media and if you don't talk to them, game over.

[GodlessBiker]

17. If God did bless these things, would that mean they are right? Or would we have to question ...

God's judgment?

[Uncle Joe]

30. I believe God evolves as humanity does.

Evolution simply means change, sometimes for the better and sometimes not, I believe the answer to that question is up to us.

Apparently God questioned his own judgment or at least regretted it after the Big Flood.

[barack the house]

20. If there is a god then he/she is that emotion. To be holy, to be part of whole with love."We are one

"We are one people, all f us the united states of America" Sen. Barack Obama.

[noel711]

22. The Theology of Noel711...

God, thru her gracious love, gave HumanKind one of the greatest of gifts:

Free will.

With that gift, humans have made many bad decisions....

Made some good ones too, but it's the bad ones that have damned us up...

However, there is always always the oppotunity to change things...

However, HumanKind just loves mischief, and making bad decisions,
and then using those bad decisions on other humans..

We have a long way to go... but our dear creator may get angry,
the way a loving mother does, but she never gives up on her children..

[JuniperLea]

29. I can't vote, because you missed the whole point

Sorry, I was raised in a Pentecostal, Fundamentalist, Evangelical church... the one thing it gave me was a full understanding of truth vs. dogma, and the misrepresentation of "the myth" and God.

If you believe "the myth" you know that God put us here for a reason. There was a war in heaven, Satan was cast down, and we were put here and given free will... I know, this is all very simplistically put, but please bear with me.

Then you have the "Old Testament" where there was an angry and vengeful God... followed by the "New Testament" wherein we have the peace-loving, sandal-wearing, love everyone, Jesus... a much nicer Deity, and one that hasn't been listened to any more closely than many humans like MLK, Malcolm X, JFK, etc.

Jesus taught that we should take care of our brothers and sisters, we are to love them all unconditionally. He told us to arm ourselves against those that don't follow the word and might harm us, but he never taught hate or war. He taught us that whatever we do to or for or against or with "the least" of our brothers and sisters, we do to/for/against or with Jesus.

God is not to blame for the wrongs of the world. We are. We are failing the test... if you believe "the myth" that is.

There you have it... in a nutshell.

[Uncle Joe]

34. You missed my point, I'm not blaming God

I agree Jesus' teachings have been put on the back burner or ignored altogether and as I stated in above posts I believe God evolves as humanity does.

I believe Reverend Wright's real sin was taking on our own self created nationalistic God, not the one of biblical lore.

[JuniperLea]

38. I don't think Wright took anyone on...

I think he spoke the truth. I can't blame him for wanting to make the death threats to his church and congregation stop. I can't blame him for wanting the world to see that someone cherry picked and repeated ad nauseum video that makes him appear to be a hater. I fell for it too! I'll be the first to admit that the gamers had me over a barrel for a minute there. Then I took the time to follow my own good advice, and heard the man out. I think it would have been better for Obama if he had just kept it zipped, but he isn't here to support Obama. He is here to support God's work. And he is doing that.

My only complaint about Rev. Wright is that he focuses on "black church" "black issues" "black this and that"... not that those things aren't important... I'm just saying, I would truly love to sit in on a sermon! I would sincerely love to hear him speak... but how would that "black congregation" take to a white woman plopping herself down to worship in "their" church? This is really a small issue... maybe. But this is the one "divisive" thing I've seen in Rev. Wright. Maybe black congregations around the world need lifted up like this, but I've always felt that God loves us all equally... and that a rising tide floats all boats.

I'll don the asbestos now...

:)

[Uncle Joe]

40. I try to put myself in his shoes,

no doubt his focus would be on black issues, that seems natural to me, as that's the majority of his environment. Having said that I also believe he sincerely cares for the nation as a whole. I believe this was foremost in his mind when she spoke after 9/11 and warned against the evils of cold revenge and hatred unleashed by war.

I have a gut feeling you or any other white person would be welcome to that church and I'll never flame you, Juniperx no asbestos needed.:)

[JuniperLea]

51. :) eom

[JerseygirlCT]

31. The actions? No, of course not. The people - all of them, whoever

they are? Yes.

[ccharles000]

41. This is a hard question for me.

I do not support slavery and i am agnostic when it come to god.When it comes to the Christian bible it does support slavery even though most Christians do not support it.Here is a website detailing how the bible supports slavery.

http://www.inu.net/skeptic/slavery.html

So if this god exists than I believe that he/she would bless these actions even though they are wrong.

[Uncle Joe]

45. Here's another way to look at it

for those fundamentalist types, slavery was a punishment for the Fall or getting kicked out of the Garden of Eden. Thorns, thistles and all manner of curse, I imagine slavery would fit the bill.

I believe that's why Jesus was sent to help humankind evolve or maybe humankind evolved and that's why Jesus was needed, I'm not sure. But the sociological evolution brought about by him eventually led to the abolition of slavery, which I agree with you was promoted in the Old Testament of the Bible.

[Skip Intro]

42. Yeah, yeah, God Damn America! Maybe you could make bumper stickers with the "O" in "God" like the

Obama sunrise (sunset?) logo.

See who buys it in November.

[Uncle Joe]

47. Bumper stickers are what got us Bush, do you remember the debate of 2000?

He was asked who is the most influential person in his life and he answered without blinking an eye, Jesus Christ.

I can't help but wonder to this day who would Jesus water torture, or bomb, or leave to drown while cutting cake and picking air guitar, what condemned prisoner having been executed would Jesus mock?

So much for bumper sticker answers.

[Skip Intro]

54. There are no bumper sticker answers, but there is poltiical reality.

Wright WILL be used by the repukes to beat Obama should he be the nom.

It would work for them.

This is a serious issue, and praising Wright, if that is what one is inclined to to, may win kudos from some corners, but will not win a general election.

That was my point.

[Seabiscuit]

44. The God I believe in, the one that created the entire universe, neither condemns nor hates.

He merely creates.

We supply all the baggage and all the crap that goes with it.

[jbnow]

46. Anyone remember that unpatriotic angry black preacher that said

America too is going to Hell

Right in public too to a whole crowd of people, not even within the confines of a church!
But he was going to do that too. He was working on a sermon titled
Why America May Go To Hellfor the the next Sunday the April day he died in 1968.

I wish I remembered his name, then we can see if any candidates are associated with him or praised him and make sure they renounce and reject him. Martin or something? Obviously a man who'd make such a statement isn't worthy of remembering.

[Uncle Joe]

48. Ironic isn't it? n/t

[AZBlue]

49. I believe God* isn't here to damn or bless actions but to let us learn from ourselves.

I don't believe in a judgemental and negative God but one who put us here to learn how to best live life. And, while I'm on the subject, I think we have a looooooooooong way to go in that education.




*in whatever form or gender that might be - I'm personally not entirely sure yet

[Uncle Joe]

52. I agree in large part,

but if we're created in God's image, I imagine emotion would be part of the package, maybe it's easier if one were to substitute the words hate or love for damn or bless.

I cutting out for the night, thanks to everyone that voted or posted.

Peace
UJ