Another slant from me, a born-again Christian Dem's perspective:

[Indiana_Dem]

I should probably really wait until tomorrow when I'm less tired to post this but it's burning my tongue to share it. Sorry if someone has already thought about it.

This whole religious controversy is actually a good thing in 2 ways:

#1 This definitely defines Obama as a Christian and not a Muslim terrorist.

#2 Ask yourselves what was one of the main factors that helped Bush win in the 2nd term? Correct. The Christian right. Who is feeling left out of the fray on the Republican side right now? The Christian right. Which side is really speaking up and getting a lot of coverage concerning Christianity right now? A Democratic candidate and his pastor who is saying "a change is gonna come!" and "the only thing I'm running for is Jeeesuss!". Then I hear Obama say to a crowd in NC "I try and follow the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"...and "I am my brother's keeper". These are all very powerful words to the Christians and especially evangelistic Christians. They know this is biblical and is speaking truth to their world view.

Whether it's intentional or not. I DO believe this will pull some honest Christians to the Obama side. I am not joking. I think it's a draw for evangelistic Christian votes. I don't know how else they would listen except for something like this to be heard and to happen.

There's a verse in the bible that says something like "What is meant for evil, God turns into good according to His will." This isn't word for word but it's close. I look at this whole situation in this way and it is my hope. I am calm with what is happening no matter how the media spins it. A lot of conservatives don't even like or trust the MSM anyway, either. I'm not seeing the MSM affect my door-to-door experiences, either. And, remember, Indiana is a very red Christian fundamentalist-type of state anyway. I think most people that live here around me would be happier and more relieved just to be aware that he is Christian rather than a Muslim terrorist, too! lol

I may be taking all this wrong and it does make me mad the way the MSM is spinning it but I believe this will not be as affective for those that were planning "evil" for the Obama campaign as they thought it would be. I truly have faith that this isn't going to have much of an effect except that some Christians in future elections may be joining the Obama side. Those that don't like Obama will continue not liking him, and those that have supported him will continue supporting him.

Just my 2 cents. Thanks.
From an Indiana Obama supporter/volunteer.

[PurityOfEssence]

1. Just more aggressive intrusiveness from religion

Sorry if you're not the proselytizing type, but for those of us who don't care for religion and REALLY don't like it in the public sphere, this is yet another nightmare. As leftists use religion more to counter the reactionaries' use of it, the overwhelming effect is this: it is omnipresent and soon to be presumed NECESSARY for life itself. It's invasive. It's pushy. It's dangerous and has unintended consequences like this.

Many people may huff and hold their heads high and say that if something like this causes a lost election then that's fine, but to me, it's just another evocation of privilege and certainty, and it messes up our world.

We need to win this election, and we've backed ourselves into a corner with two terrible candidates. Now we have to somehow extricate ourselves from another fine mess brought to us by religion. This wasn't a political or secular disaster, this was one from theocratic activism that has escalated into a pissy and vengeful little tantrum by a guy whose ego knows few bounds. I guess he's held center stage for so long that he simply can't STAND anyone taking him to task.

At least a fair number of people here get the point, but that's small comfort. This all rubs off on us, and that's not a good thing.

[Indiana_Dem]

3. I understand what you're saying and I agree with you but I'm just

trying to convey some good things that can come out of this over all the negatives. Unfortunately, this is what is happening. It's truly a sad way to come about having to get votes in the political arena. I don't know any other way the campaign could wriggle out of this one.

[PurityOfEssence]

13. Believe me, I feel for you

It must be hard to see a hero in such a predicament. It must also be hard to see anything go a bit awry under the aegis of one's religion; I guarantee you I cringe and feel small when other non-religious types go on a nasty atheistic spew against a believer.

This is a huge mess. When David Gergen says that Wright's display was "narcissistic almost beyond belief" and one of the worst displays in 40 years, that says something. Gergen is one of only two conservative pundits who've got much of any soul and a good mix of honesty and perception (the other being Kevin Phillips) and he was more animated and harsh with his assessment than I've ever seen him in thirty some-odd years of watching.

There's an ongoing theme among many of the Obama faithful that's a recurring theme among each cycle's "new flavor of the year" politicians: things are different now and the old rules just don't matter. They do. Ask Dean. Ask Clark. Ask Hart. A worse delusion of the faithful Obama fans is that every seeming disaster is actually a blessing in disguise. Well, if this one is, it's mighty well disguised, that's all I can say.

I saw a clip of Hillary Clinton being asked to respond and she was very troubled by it all. We've strayed into the murky netherworld of race and religion, and we're liable to trip over the bones of our forebears with a step in any direction. More fun with religion. Great.

All I can say is hang with it and maybe read Rudyard Kipling's "If", this has taken on a life of its own.

What a mess.

[RaleighNCDUer]

26. You do recognize, of course, that Gergen WANTS this to hurt

Obama because he WANTS Hillary to get the nomination.

That hardly makes his an unbiased opinion.

[Ron Green]

4. Religion is no more invasive or pushy than the capitalist marketplace, and just as much a part

of society. The key is to have a proper balance among business, government and spiritual organizations.

I disagree that we have two terrible candidates. I believe we have one mediocre candidate and one strong, potentially great one.

[gaspee]

21. agree 100% (NT)

[Sensitivity]

2. Unfortunately, "White Christianity" and "Black Christianity" seem to be 2 different things

White "Christians" can't see truth through the smoke of prejudice.

[Indiana_Dem]

5. That is probably true in some churches but in my experiences,

there had always been a mixture of races within the church. I dropped organized religion (like Obama's mother) in 1990 and haven't been back since but in my experiences there was no problem with race within the churches.

[crankychatter]

7. the Church of Christ is predominately White AND....

The social gospel IS the gospel of mainstream Christendom

the Ecumenical movement on the heels of the fundamentalist revival of the early seventies secured cross denominational communication and solidarity on social issues...

institutionalized the phenomenon really...

not so far apart... really truly

well now, if you mean by "white" christianity, the first methodist church in THIS TINY KANSAS TOWN... you might be right

or pretty much any of the "our way or the highway" exclusive "say the magic words and you will live forever" churches... yeah

but they're all republicans anyway so, "what the fuck"

mho

[sampsonblk]

37. Pastor Wright correctly alluded to that yesterday

When I say I am christian, its not the same as when James Dobson says he is christian. We are not talking about the same thing at all.

[crankychatter]

6. nobody that's for obama will change their minds over this

and i don't believe any voter we need is going to be dissuaded by this

if he gets enough time to campaign for the general... he'll undo any disadvantages this creates

it's gonna be ok

you like soul music?

take a peace break

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6nW_XP61kY

[Indiana_Dem]

9. It says it's a private video?? Yeah, I love all music! nt

[crankychatter]

22. oh I thought she had it up already...

guess it was just sent to me personally

sorry

she must be fine tuning the slide show part

[TahitiNut]

8. Never underestimate the "stuck-on-stupid" gene pool ... Democrats even more than Independents

From the poll taken on March 27 ...





http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=1277

It's quite obviously the "Hillary demographic" that shows the greatest concentration of the s-o-s cohort. Older up to 1.5 times the younger, 'centrist' 2.5 times the liberals, HS grads 3 times the college grads, women more than men, rural twice as much as urban, white more than black.

Stooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooopid!!!!!!!!

[Aloha Spirit]

11. We need more Liberal Democratic College-Educated suburban western protestant young black male voters

stat.

[TahitiNut]

14. I'm down with that.

:thumbsup:

[Indiana_Dem]

12. Well, I don't fit the mold I guess. I'm a

40ish, female, white, college educated, rural mid-westerner who knows Obama isn't a Muslim! lol

[Aloha Spirit]

15. Thought exercise--what would those polls look like if the Internet DIDNT exist?

[JeffR]

10. Good for you for posting this.

And thank you.

[Indiana_Dem]

16. You're welcome JeffR. And it is my faith and prayers that

say:
"our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in heavenly places."

"No weapon that is formed against you shall prosper..."

"The mind of a man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps..."

I'm sure Obama knows these verses as well as Rev. Wright. So does the Christian right. Many on DU may not understand these words or even want to (that's okay with me) but I wholeheartedly believe and pray on these words for Sen. Obama. Haven't been to church since 1990 but I remember these words and do still keep my faith!

See? I can still believe these things while at the same time be pro-choice and believe in separation of church and state. There are some of us around.

Not directed at you JeffR--I was just sayin' in general to the public!

[JeffR]

18. I hear you.

I remember some of that from Sunday school myself, from way, way back. And I still can't find a fault in those passages, though I'm now an apostate. They reflect the best of the human spirit.

What you've added to the discussion here should be applauded by everyone.

[Scurrilous]

17. K & R

:thumbsup:

[barack the house]

19. Yep, that is why I said earlier Wright should keep talking I just get the feeling it is doing good.

[ginnyinWI]

24. whatever else Rev. Wright might be--

he's certainly not stupid. I can't believe he'd actually want to derail Obama's campaign. There's a "method to his madness".

[ClayZ]

20. K and R

[TragedyandHope]

23. Thanks for sharing your perspective!

:kick:

[harun]

25. 3. It shines light on the bias of the MSM to report nonsense anytime

they can over real issues. It is making the media look like fools.

Obama and Wright are much smarter than them.

[democrattotheend]

27. How much do you think it's hurting him in Indiana?

Since you are a volunteer, do you have a sense?

[Indiana_Dem]

30. So far, I don't see any impact--

I've only heard or seen of one blatant racist and 3 religious people who believe he is Muslim or the antichrist. Out of 90 door knocks by me this weekend and 31 contacts,

19 Obama supporters
9 undecided
5 Republicans who only vote Republican
2 Hillary supporter that will support Obama if he wins

And this is in rural "BFE" red Christian conservative Reoublican dominated-land! Either I'm just knocking on the right doors or it's a fluke.

[hokies4ever]

28. CNN Compassion Forum

About a month ago CNN held a Compassion Forum that Obama and Hillary appeared at. Hillary appeared to be pandering to the religious groups represented there and attacked Obama unnecessarily when she was answering questions during the first half. (Note to Hillary: have some compassion at a Compassion Forum). Obama later got a voracious standing ovation when he entered the forum. You could easily tell that he wasn't just pandering but was being truthful and honest

[Indiana_Dem]

31. that's exactly what I mean.

Honest Christians who know their passages know that Obama is walking upright and is being as truthful as he can be while being a politician.

[Solon]

33. That forum was just painful, and neither candidate should have participated in it...

really, really bad idea.

[grantcart]

29. There are a large number of Christians who feel that they are under MSM attack all of the time

Pentacostals and Evangelicals for example. They are not going to reflexively condemn Obama because they are getting the same treatment that they feel they get all of the time.

Wright specifically defended them in his NAACP speech, although I am not sure many heard it.

There are also many Christians who would not want to be judged by what their pastor says and will sympathize with Obama for it.

Most people are not going to pay much attention to it.


The most important point of your OP is that people don't vote in groups or block and many conservative and moderate Christians are going to be drawn to Obama when they see the alternatives before them, neither one are perceived (fairly or unfairly) as particularly active in their church.

[Political Heretic]

32. Well said - from someone born OK the first time. :)

[Indiana_Dem]

34. heh heh that's cute!

:rofl:

[knixphan]

35. hopefully

I hope that many white Christians will be able to respond to their spiritual kinship with our candidate, rather than their cultural kinship with some of their racist friends and family.

[Indiana_Dem]

36. believe me, I'm with ya! I have some "hope"! nt