Rev. Hagee believes in "The Rapture"?

[patrice]

Doesn't that make him a Blasphemer?

[leftofcool]

1. Isn't the rapture part of Christian beliefs?

Like "being caught up in the clouds to meet Jesus" and not having to face the 7 woes, or something like that.

[smiley_glad_hands]

3. It varies.

I believe Catholics call it armageddon. Its just a propaganda tool used for control. The evangelicals seem to be the most radical about it, probably because they want you to believe its around the corner.

[DevonRex]

5. Not the same thing. nt

[WinkyDink]

8. "Armageddon" is in the King James Bible, so IF it's "Catholic", it is also most decidedly Protestant

[patrice]

7. It is not, per se, in The Bible. It's an extrapolation on Revelations.

Popularized by these folks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture

My main point is that when someone/ANYONE claims to know "God"'s mind, that's Blasphemy.

So McCheney hangs around with End Timers.

[Bill McBlueState]

22. some Christians

But it's mainly confined to certain American Protestant sects. Worldwide, the fraction of Christians who believe the Rapture will occur is probably pretty small. It was invented only in the 19th century.

(edited to fix the dating)

[TechBear_Seattle]

2. Part of (some) Protestant doctrine for almost 200 years

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture

[Jamastiene]

4. No.

Anyone who knows anything about Christianity knows that most Christians believe in the Rapture.

[Avalux]

6. But the rapture is not in the bible. It was made up somewhere along the way.

That would make him a blasphemer in the true sense of the word.

There are worse things to call him anyway - his eagerness to bring about armageddon scares the crap outta me. And the fact that his 'church' is about 5 miles up the road.

[joeybee12]

9. Very true...and Catholics don't believe in the Rapture, nor, I believe,

most mainstream Protestant denominations.

[Avalux]

11. You are correct that Catholics do not believe in the rapture.

Nor do they believe what's written in the bible word for word. Revelations is paid little attention to alos as there is much controversy surrounding its legitimacy. Most of my Catholic teachings centered around the time Jesus was alive; the stories used as teaching tools for every day life.

[joeybee12]

13. Yup, raised a Catholic also...I'll give the church props on evolution and

on their non-literal interpretation of the Bible...there's such a thing as context, as in taking into account the time, place and audience for which it was written.

[patrice]

15. Catholics believe The Bible is true. In regards to "word for word", we are cautioned

to avoid any assumption of perfect knowledge.

Also, at least in my generation, the education that we received was heavy in the Humanities and at least Latin, if not some foreign language too, so those with the inclination, came to recognize words for what they are: hypotheses that ONLY orient us toward a Reality, but that are NOT the Reality itself. So to take ANY word and relate to ANY other word in an absolute and unchanging way claims a knowledge of ultimate truth that IS Blasphemy.

[patrice]

18. So tell me why they are not Blasphemers, please, really I'm curious how this works.

:hi:

[juno jones]

21. Most vehemently not

The Millerite heresy (what we now call 'rapture') was developed in 1848, by a guy named Miller (of course) who told his followers the world would end, etcetc, at a particular time. Of course it didn't, so he kept extending the date. The 'heresy' caught on so now SOME (generally fundamentalist churches who don't really seem to care about the bible or scholarship) protestant churches believe in a eventual 'rapture' that frankly is not a part of traditional christian tenets.

I was raised Christian and I never heard of the rapture until I was in my teens and dealing with fundies.

[Bill McBlueState]

23. isn't it ironic

that the so-called "fundamentalist" churches seem to have so little regard for the actual contents of the bible?

[juno jones]

25. Yep.

As I said to the poster below, the much of the bible is metaphor. To interpret it literally is to make a most *ahem* fundamental mistake. The protestants fought so long to have the bible in the hands of the common man, but once they got it, they threw the baby out with the bathwater and, for the most part, lost the esoteric meanings.

edit:typing is not my friend.

[rox63]

26. Not true

I was brought up Catholic, and didn't hear about the rapture until much later. I have friends who are Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans and UCC, and none of them believe in the rapture. It's mostly the fundies who believe in the rapture. And most Christians are not fundies.

[DevonRex]

10. Not at all. It comes from the New Testament. When it talks about

3 women working and in the blink of an eye 1 is gone and 2 remain. That's when Christians are taken to heaven the first time. Then there's a period when those remaining on earth have another chance to accept Christ.

Then there's the second coming of Jesus. Big battle, yada yada yada. And then all the Christians still on earth are raised to heaven.

Very condensed version. I left out all the stuff about the antichrist, Armageddon, the tribulation, Satan being cast into hell, Satan coming back again, Satan being cast into hell for the final time.

You know, when you type it all out like this, it sounds a wee bit, um... Nevermind.

[DinahMoeHum]

12. The "Rapture" is a con-job and a rip-off of the biblical Revelations.

So says Rev. Dr. Barbara Rossing in her book The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelations

http://www.amazon.com/Rapture-Exposed-Message-Hope-Revelation/dp/0813343143/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209476383&sr=1-1

And yes, it makes John Hagee and his lemmings not only blasphemers, but selfish, greedy assholes:
(snip)
Says Dr. Rossing: "The Rapture vision invites a selfish non-concern for the world. It turns salvation into a personal 401 (k) plan that saves only yourself."
(snip)

:think:

[patrice]

17. AND a BIG money maker! Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington . . .

has a suit pending against the Bush administration to release, under the Freedom of Information Act, the White House visitors' logs in the year or so before the Invasion of Iraq, which visitors' logs her BuShitler has classified as Secret - a thing that has never been done to the WH visitors' logs before. I don't know where that suit stands right now, but when Melanie Sloan announced it she said some things about CREW's interest in certain national religious leaders' activities during that time.

http://citizensforethics.org/

edited to provide link.

[populust]

14. Back in 1988…

I was a student at a protestant (Church of God) elementary school. Classes were cancelled because of this:

Edgar C. Whisenant is a Bible student who predicted the Rapture would occur in 1988, sometime between Sept. 11 and Sept. 13. He published two books about this: 88 Reasons Why the Rapture Could Be in 1988 and On Borrowed Time. Eventually, 300,000 copies of 88 Reasons were mailed free of charge to ministers across America, and 4.5 million copies were sold in bookstores and elsewhere. Whisenant was quoted as saying "Only if the Bible is in error am I wrong; and I say that to every preacher in town," and "f there were a king in this country and I could gamble with my life, I would stake my life on Rosh Hashana 88." <1>

Whisenant's predictions were taken seriously in some parts of the evangelical Christian community. As the great day approached, regular programming on the Christian Trinity Broadcast Network (TBN) was interrupted to provide special instructions on preparing for the Rapture.

The predicted Rapture did not occur.

Following this 1988 debacle, Whisenant followed up with later books with predictions for various dates in 1989, 1993, and 1994. These books did not sell in quantity. Whisenant continued to issue various Rapture predictions through 1997, but gathered little attention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_C._Whisenant

[elocs]

16. Isn't it interesting when people comment about something they know nothing about?

Guess what? Some of both Catholics and Protestants believe in the concept of the "rapture". Another guess what? Some Catholics are evangelical in nature and some are even pentecostal. Yes, the word "rapture" is not in the Bible, but people have patched together its concept. Belief in the rapture is only a few hundred years old and believing in it is not heresy and it does not make anyone a blasphemer. Like many things Christian, there is also not one single agreed upon belief concerning the rapture.

[patrice]

19. But claiming a perfect truth, such as the Rapture, is Blasphemy.

My point isn't whether anyone believes it or not, but that claiming absolutely perfect knowledge of our "spiritual" fate is the definition of Blasphemy.

[patrice]

20. P.S. People believe all kinds of things in error. Why does that not apply to the Rapture? nt

[elocs]

27. Who is it who declared the rapture to be a doctrine that is in error?

The Pope? Non-Catholics probably have hundreds of denominations who are free to believe whatever they like, and many do.

[patrice]

28. Of course they are, and so are Catholics, and all of us are free to be Wrong.

If I don't think the Pope is infallible, I don't think anyone else is either.

Again, I ask you, tell me how the claim to perfect comprehension of God, on any issue, is not Blasphemy.

Perfect knowledge of God's mind is a violation of the first commandment; it's putting our ideas about God ahead of what God actually is and worshipping our ideas rather than the real thing, which, by definition, could not possibly be contained in any human understanding. How could God be so small that we could understand him?

What we understand about matters divine are our own concepts, to worship those is to worship ourselves, i.e. Blasphemy.

Even Jesus on the cross had his doubts, so he wondered why he had been forsaken. Are you more perfect than Jesus?

[juno jones]

24. I also know the pope wasn't infallible until

the 1860's. Does that mean he's infallible now? Rapture is the result of shoddy interpretaion of the bible. It is not a few hundred years old, it dates from around 1848, publicly started by a guy named Miller (Millerite heresy). The bible speaks in metaphor, unfortunately without some knowledge of its symbolism we wind up with silly interpretations like rapture.

Yeah, its interesting people commenting without having a clue and all. In fact rapture is what happens when a whole bunch of people don't have a real clue about their religion and it's origins.

[crankychatter]

29. If you believe the end of the world is imminent and inevitable

sell your real estate, give the money to the poor and for

chrissake

STOP VOTING