Why I Voted For Hillary

[jmowreader]

I thought I'd never be able to vote in the primaries this year. Since the last election, I moved to a different precinct and work in another county so I figured I couldn't update my election record and...without an up-to-date election record you can't vote in this state. Good news! Thanks to the miracle of One-Stop Early Voting, where they've got a terminal that links to the Board of Elections' computer, I updated my records and voted last night.

For Hillary.

Here's why.

I've given this some serious thought. As the primary campaign stands, we've got two candidates, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, who are essentially tied. They're about equally popular--most of the polls that you guys are so breathless about screaming "America Just LOVES Obama!!!!11!!1!1! SERIES!!!11!!1!" are within MOE. I'm sorry, kids, but I don't get real excited about a poll that shows the "victor" ahead by a point. And you shouldn't either. Neither candidate can take the thing without superdelegates. If both candidates stay in the race until Denver, as things right now look like they will, we're looking at the first brokered convention since Chicago in 1968. At that point, all bets are off.

I've also been told that Obama does best in (1) caucus states and (2) extremely red states. Obama's performance in Idaho is no indication of his potential across America since the Repugs could take Idaho

Now let's look at the issues. They're not all that far apart. Both candidates are plugging their version of Romneycare, which as we know is just SOOOOOOOOOOOOO successful and SOOOOOOOOOOOOO wonderful. I'm going to discount their stands on the war for one simple reason: Bush was going to invade Iraq, Congress be damned. The reality on the war is that no matter who the Democrats put in office in November, it's going to take ten years to fix what we broke and withdraw. We BOMBED THEIR COUNTRY FLAT; it's our responsibility to stand it back up under a government of THEIR choosing. Either of our candidates will do that.

I used one simple criteria for choosing my candidate: Can said candidate beat John McCain in November? I know Hillary can. You defeat Republicans with a three-pronged strategy: simple phrases ("It's the economy, stupid!") repeated endlessly, going negative on them before they can go negative on you, and counterattacking fast and hard. This strategy put her husband in the White House twice--once against a sitting president the Democrats thought was completely unbeatable after Desert Storm--so we know it works. Obama is too nice a guy. He's been all about this "audacity of hope" thing; I say it's more like the audacity of a one-term senator who took office by beating God's Gift to the Democratic Party. Obama beat Alan Keyes to win his office. I have a block of cheese in my refrigerator that could beat Alan Keyes. Hillary? She beat Rick Lazio, who although odious is actually electable. (He was a sitting Congressman from New York State.)

I also like Hillary's personal strength. A lot of us would fold if someone called us a "bad person." Hillary's been called everything from a cheat to a liar to a mass murderer, and she only gets tougher with every gibe. They dug through her underwear drawer looking for Rose Law Firm billing records, for God's sake. Hillary won't buckle when the Pukes start swiftboating her.

Religion also played a factor in my decision. I know he's not a Muslim. But if he's not a fundamentalist Christian now, I think there's a definite danger of him becoming one--in part to deflect the idea he might be a Muslim. There's already an end-timer in office; we don't need to elect one who's a Democrat.

So that's it...unless Obama is our candidate for the general, I'm backing Hillary.

[Texas Hill Country]

1. good enough. i agree especially with the strength part... she is one strong lady

[Botany]

2. WTF are you talking about?

<Religion also played a factor in my decision. I know he's not a Muslim.
But if he's not a fundamentalist Christian now, I think there's a definite
danger of him becoming one--in part to deflect the idea he might be a
Muslim. There's already an end-timer in office; we don't need to elect
one who's a Democrat.>

[Kittycat]

3. It's all about the crack.

How much they can take, to make their delusional thoughts seem realistic.

[jmowreader]

5. Here's exactly what the fuck I'm talking about

I have watched fundamentalists run for public office before. They all do it the same way--disguise the fact they're fundies, get their core supporters to attack anyone who even slightly questions the candidate, and throw around money like there's no tomorrow.

You know, exactly the things Obama is doing.

Go to http://www.tucc.org and read everything there. Looks pretty fucking fundamentalist to me...and all the shit in there about Trinity's "non-negotiable commitment to Africa" isn't going to play real well in Peoria either.

[RaleighNCDUer]

7. You obviously don't know what fundamentalism is -

or you DO know, and want to hide it.

Fundies hang with type - birds of a feather. Obama's church is anything BUT fundie.

Hillary OTOH is a member of the Fellowship group - a fundie group of congresscritters that includes the likes of Santorum. So who might be a secret fundie?

[rox63]

9. The UCC is the most liberal Christian denomination out there

This is the most f%&#ed-up lie I've heard yet about Obama's church.

[John Q. Citizen]

10. You might check out Hill's prayer group. It's full of fundys who think god wants them to

be president.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html

Hillary's Prayer: Hillary Clinton's Religion and Politics

For 15 years, Hillary Clinton has been part of a secretive religious group that seeks to bring Jesus back to Capitol Hill. Is she triangulating—or living her faith?

By Kathryn Joyce and Jeff Sharlet
Illustration by: Andy Friedman

September 1, 2007

[redqueen]

20. Thank you! And they've already taken credit for some of her votes...

saying it was due to their influence.

I can't believe that her association with Coe gets no traction, while this Wright stuff is blasted like bushie propoganda.

[Botany]

13. So Obama is closet fundy but is pretending not to be a fundy because ....

.... people think he is a Muslim? :rofl:



Remember the doctor gave you those nice pills to help
you think a "little better" and stuff.

[berni_mccoy]

16. You are a complete Whack-Job. Good luck with your life.

[Political Heretic]

24. You should actually try to know at least SOMETHING about what you're talking about

UCC is so opposite from fundamentalist I don't even know where to begin.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

21. It's that fundy thing, I get it. He said anti choice people answer a moral calling on FAUX

last Sunday, explaining why he's good friends with an OK legislator who supports the death penalty for women who have abortions.

:scared:

[Avalux]

4. Oh good lord!

"I know he's not a Muslim. But if he's not a fundamentalist Christian now, I think there's a definite danger of him becoming one--in part to deflect the idea he might be a Muslim."

That's one of the most ridiculous statements I've read here; difficult to take your post seriously. :rofl:

[John Q. Citizen]

6. Your analysis is expected from a Clinton supporter. I think it's weak, but hey, lots of voters

choose a candidate for similar weak reasons.

I see Obama just picked up another super delegate today. I'm sure that people who have to actually run for office don't know as much as you do about politics, about elect-ability. After all, that's why they are in office and you aren't. Because you know more about it.

On May 20th, Obama is going to win a majority of all pledged delegates. The entire leadership of the Democratic Party as well as numerous super delegates have said repeatedly that the supers, by and large, are going to vote for the candidate who win the majority of the pledged delegates. That would be Obama. Do the math, if you are capable.

Your reason for voting for Hillary, that she's been called mean names before, is as weak as the rest of your reasons.

But that's OK. After all, people vote for who they think they want to vote for. Just don't be too surprised if it turns out you voted for the loser.

What you call serious thought isn't what I call serious thought. But we all have our opinions.

[cali]

8. lol. and you think you're so rational about this?

First of all, you don't KNOW that hill can win in November. Sorry,dear that's just bombast. Secondly, the war vote fucking well does count to many of us. It shows a total lack of judgment, a willingness to advance her career over the lives of hundreds of thousands. Thirdly, Lazio wasn't electable. And last: Your "reasoning" about Obama's religion is simply pitiful. And disgusting. Congrats! You're a total hillbot, hillbot

[DemVet]

11. So what do you think of...

...Barry by voting to continue to fund the war?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

12. Hillary won't buckle?

She complained about getting debate questions first, for fuck's sake.

She changes personalities like Sybil -- frontrunner, victim, fighter -- until there's no core identity there.

She can't run a campaign worth shit, financially or message-wise, and she trips over her own lies. How do you think fake sniper fire will hold up against McCain, an actual war hero?

And I have no idea what the hell this means:

Religion also played a factor in my decision. I know he's not a Muslim. But if he's not a fundamentalist Christian now, I think there's a definite danger of him becoming one--in part to deflect the idea he might be a Muslim. There's already an end-timer in office; we don't need to elect one who's a Democrat.

[SeaLyons]

14. Excellent...

She is one tough lady. She has the guts, tenacity and intelligence to be the best President this country has ever had.

Go Hillary!!

[Botany]

15. Except for the fact she is mathematically out of the race

..... does it get dark in your world at night?

[SeaLyons]

19. You need to turn the lights on in YOUR world...

[MercutioATC]

17. I disagree, but this is a great post!

See, this is what GD-P should be...a lot more expression of why you support a given candidate and a lot less trash talk.

:thumbsup:

[PassingFair]

18. If you're worrying about trafficking with fundamentalists....

you voted for the wrong candidate:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200611/green-hillary

snip>The roster of regular participants has included such notable conservative names as Brownback, Santorum, Nickles, Enzi, and Inhofe. Then, in 2001, just after the new class of senators was sworn in, another name was added to the list: Hillary Rodham Clinton.

One spring Wednesday, a few months into the term, Senator Sam Brownback’s turn came to lead the group, and he rose intending to talk about a recent cancer scare. But as he stood before his colleagues Brownback spotted Clinton, and was overcome with the impulse to change the subject of his testimony. “I came here today prepared to share about this experience in my life that has caused great suffering, the result of which has deepened my faith,” Brownback said, according to someone who watched the scene unfold. “But I’m overcome now with only one thought.” He confessed to having hated Clinton and having said derogatory things about her. Through God, he now recognized his sin. Then he turned to her and asked, “Mrs. Clinton, will you forgive me?” Clinton replied that she would, and that she appreciated the apology.

“It was an extraordinary moment,” the member told me.

This repentance fostered an unlikely relationship that has yielded political bounty. Clinton and Brownback went on to cosponsor one measure protecting refugees fleeing sexual abuse, and another to study the effects on children of violent video games and television shows. “That morning helped make our working relationship,” Brownback told me recently. “It brought me close to someone I did not ever imagine I would become close to.” Since then, Clinton has teamed up on legislation with many members of the prayer group.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

22. she is one tough lady....a strong fighter and will make an excellent Commander in Chief!

[Political Heretic]

23. New Clinto-orweliean newspeak defines "tied" as follows:

When one person has won the most state contests in a primary season.
When one person has won the most pledged delegates in a primary season.
When one person has won the most popular vote in a primary season.
When one person has raise the most money in a primary season.
When one person leads the other person 49% to 41% in national polls - outside the MOE.
When one person's favorables, "cares about me," "Honest/trustworthy" and "strong leader" indicators all trounce the other person's.

That's how we define "Tied" in the new world.

EDIT -change one to won... I don't know what's wrong with me this morning.

[sallyseven]

27. Then how come he hasn't got the nomination

all sewed up? Because he hasn't got all the numbers yet! By the way she is beating McCain according to the Boston Globe. Obama is not. He is one point behind McCain.

[Political Heretic]

28. That doesn't mean they are tied. How come she hasn't gotten the nomination all sewed up?

Because she is losing.

[jmowreader]

29. Let's look at the numbers for just a second...

As of right now, Barack Obama has a total of 1729 delegates, according to Real Clear Politics.
According to the same website, Hillary Clinton has 1594.

There's a spread of 135 delegates between them--and the primary in North Carolina on Tuesday next is worth 115 delegates, and the Indiana primary on the same day is worth 72. Together that's 187--MORE than the spread between Clinton and Obama.

If Clinton wins both primaries, this race flips from "Obama in the lead" to "Clinton in the lead." And there are a total of nine states left to go. (Of course, if THAT happens, all the Obama people on DU will start screaming about how Hillary's such a thief and how she personally went in and stuffed every single ballot box with her own little hand.)

Now you know why I say the race is basically tied: as of now, it could easily go either way. A 135-delegate deficit, when there are several hundred that can be picked up between now and Denver, isn't insurmountable.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

25. Most of your reasoning is pretty decent.

However, as to the fundamentalist Christian thing: Are you familiar with Hillary's creepy prayer cult?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5087612

Obama may be in danger of embracing fundamentalism, but it looks like Clinton already has. And a particularly disturbing brand of Calvinism that holds that God favors an elite minority and wants them to run everything. :scared:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

26. Most of your reasoning is pretty decent.

However, as to the fundamentalist Christian thing: Are you familiar with Hillary's creepy prayer cult?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5087612

Obama may be in danger of embracing fundamentalism, but it looks like Clinton already has. And a particularly disturbing brand of Calvinism that holds that God favors an elite minority and wants them to run everything. :scared: