"Give us Barrabas!", cried the multitude.

[scarletwoman]

I'm under no illusions. I've assumed all along that Clinton would be the Dem nominee, it simply wasn't going to be allowed to not happen.

I never wanted either Clinton or Obama to be the nominee. In my dreams I wanted Kucinich. In my daylight world I wanted Edwards.

On the other hand, I was much more disturbed by Clinton than by Obama. I've been trying for years to get DUers to wake up about the Clintons. I honestly cound not BELIEVE that people would start flocking to HRC even before all the other candidates announced.

I mean, if you're really a progressive, why the HELL would you go anywhere NEAR a DLCer?! It defies logic, to me.

At the same time, I never had a kind word for Obama, either -- lest anyone think I'm not an equal opportunity cynic. I only recently came around to expressing some mild support for him -- simply by virtue of Obama not being Clinton.

But I've felt in my gut for two years now that it's going to be Clinton. I think it needs to be. Because people are FINALLY, FINALLY going to have to wake the fuck up to just what is really going on around them. Because anyone who is still so deluded as to think that the New World Order folks like good pals Bill Clinton and Poppy Bush give a shit about YOU, except to keep you docile and obedient, is someone who needs to be so utterly betrayed that they can finally get it.

So just wait, all you good liberals crying "Give us Hillary!", just wait. When those bombs start dropping on Iran, please tell me how "progressive" your choice was.

sw

[Joe the Revelator]

1. Don't let the media fool you, Hillary still has next to no chance of becoming the nominee

Math, the SDs and logic all prove this.

[harun]

59. They have been trying to sell her inevitability for three years and

she will NOT BE THE nominee. People aren't drinking the kool-aid anymore.

Hillary is DLC. DLC is anti-populist, pro-corpo fascism. Hillary is as close you can get to being a neo-conservative without writing a book about it. How anyone on this board thinks she is a good idea is just crazy to me. I respect your ability to freely choose but look at the facts people.

[smalll]

2. LOL So you're pretty much saying Obama IS the Messiah. /nt

[scarletwoman]

7. Nope. I'm saying that people willingly champion thieves. (nt)

[Tesha]

54. Yeah, but they're thieves you could sit down and have a Boilermaker with... (NT)

[aquart]

55. What did Hillary steal, dear?

Since you're so hoping to see her crucified.

[scarletwoman]

71. Do you understand the difference between metaphor and literalism?

No, maybe not.

[Alexander]

83. Shillbots failed remedial math AND reading comprehension.

[cliffordu]

14. Oh I dunno.....

From the attic came an unearthly howl. The whole scene had an eerie, surreal quality, like when you're on vacation in another city and Jeopardy comes on at 7:00 p.m. instead of 7:30.

[ruby slippers]

3. Sacrlet...someone who thinks just like me....!!!!!

Makes you just want to stay home, huh? Finally, though, someone who knows the secrets behind those Clintons. NWO, you betcha!

Thanks for being out there. I don't feel so all alone now.....

[scarletwoman]

31. I'm glad you don't feel alone. Thank you for your kind words. (nt)

[gateley]

4. I like what you have to say, scarletwoman. nt

[Radical Activist]

5. And yet Edwards was the DLC leader in the Senate

while Obama has a solidly progressive career record. I'm always a little confused about why so much of the white liberal net roots went with Edwards over a more progressive credible candidate.

[Armstead]

10. Edwards wasn;t a DLC leader....I don't think he was even in the DLC

In any case, he did change after he left the Senate.

[Ashy Larry]

17. Not an official member of the DLC.

But he was a founding member of the New Democrat Coalition in the Senate which is a DLC affiliate.

Though U.S. Senators have always played a key role in the DLC and the New Democrat movement, we're pleased to see that nine senators have taken the formal step of organizing a New Democrat Coalition to work with the existing 64-member NDC in the House. The founding members of the Senate NDC include: Joe Lieberman (CT), Evan Bayh (IN), Mary Laundrieu (LA), John Edwards (NC), John Breaux (LA), Chuck Robb (VA), Blanche Lambert Lincoln (AR), Bob Kerrey (NE) and Bob Graham (FL).

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=426&kaid=103&subid=111

[scarletwoman]

12. Pfft.

I'm not posting about numbers of angels dancing on the head of a pin.

[The Traveler]

16. Because we think he came to a realization

We have reasons to believe that to be the case. Others have reason to doubt it. At this point, it is impossible to say for sure who is right and who is wrong. As things stand, Obama is (for me) the best choice available today. But his policy formulations are not particularly exciting to me. His foreign policy and national security advisors are sort of meh. Still ... Obama seems to be starting out from a philosophically distinct position. He suggests a restoration of the relationship between government and the governed in a manner we have not seen suggested in many a year. His policies are at least acceptable as a starting point that, if he is successful in establishing the movement he intends to spark, may well evolve into more progressive plans.

My views on Obama have shifted somewhat as I studied the man and observed his conduct under pressure. Frankly, I am more hopeful of our prospects given his leadership than I was a short time ago.

[TahitiNut]

45. Ditto. Well said.

It's rather amazing to find a couple of rational posts among all the feces-flinging flying monkeys.

[Armstead]

6. I know what you mean about the Clintons -- Support for them defies logic

I'm more supportive of Obama than you, and I do think he can still pull it off.

But I agree that it boggles the mind that people support her as a "friend of the working class." Anyone who is liberal -- much less progressive -- is in cognative dissonance to believe that the Clintons are the populists Hillary currently pretends to be.

The couple who ushered in the very economic crap that Hillary now decries publicly....Does anyone with half a brain think that Hillary wouldn't be championing NAFTA if it weren't politically expedient to criticize it?

Does anyone really connect the dots between Bill Clinton's favoring of corporate mergers and the shuttered factories and lowered wages?

My God the Clintons were right in the thick of creating the very problems she now claims to be the solution for.

[scarletwoman]

41. Well, it's been obvious for decades that liberals will go to great lengths to avoid

acknowledging that there is a wholly bipartisan Ruling Class over which they hold no influence whatsoever.

Thanks for your post!

:hi:
sw

[MonkeyFunk]

8. you guys

are more and more insane with each passing day.

[scarletwoman]

13. Don't be ridiculous. I've ALWAYS been insane.

:P

[MonkeyFunk]

44. Nah

you've always been charmingly eccentric.

But really... using messianic mantras? Isn't that a bit much?

[scarletwoman]

73. "Charmingly eccentric" -- thank you, that's sweet.

:D

I'm using metaphor, nothing more. The metaphor is this: group think produces the phenomena of people eagerly demanding something that in reality will do them no good.

That very same phenomena is a big factor in how bush* ended up in the White House instead of Al Gore.

Please understand, I see this principle at work in BOTH camps: Clinton AND Obama. I will freely admit, however, that I find Clinton utterly unsupportable. I only find Obama somewhat less so.

Peace,
sw

[Ichingcarpenter]

15. & You have become more inane over the years

having supported many of this regime's legacies in
your DLC type protests against democratic party ideals

[MonkeyFunk]

43. how a nonsensical response

you've been here a year and a half, so your judgment "over the years" is sort of dumb.

Can you name one democratic party ideal I've protested? No, you can't.

You guys think acting like a dick is a democratic party principle, but it really isn't. It's just acting like a dick.

[Ichingcarpenter]

52. Dude... you lied........ 2004 .... when you signed on

Go for it!!!!

[babylonsister]

9. Love you, friend, but we 'might' have a say in this, and it 'might' be

Obama. I refuse to give up hope. //Stamping foot belligerently\\

[scarletwoman]

18. I would be happy for you to prevail.

I've never been all that impressed by Obama, but I far prefer him over Clinton. And the one thing I DO like about Obama is all the people who have gotten politically involved because they were inspired by their Obama passion.

The smartest thing a genuine progressive movement could do would be to tap into those people and their passion and build a movement OUTSIDE of electoral politics.

Because as a 58 year old lefty, the biggest thing that has driven me to despair over the decades is witnessing how the left allows itself to be co-opted election after election, and gets so worn out maintaining their desperate denial of the cognitive dissonance driving their actions that they are rendered perennially useless and helpless until the next electoral campaign comes along.

It doesn't matter who "wins" the election. What matters is building a movement. Because without a movement, we will never have anything but thieves and knaves ruling over us.

sw

[eridani]

47. Sorry, but hoping for a movement outside of electoral politics was what leftists advocated in 1973

--just as the wingers were telling their people to go "stealth" in running for school boards, dog-catchers, sewer commissioners, anything. How THAT one working out for us these days, eh? :sarcasm:

[babylonsister]

49. It matters to me who 'wins' this, desperately. The differences to me

are stark.

And the movement is building. :hug:

[Ichingcarpenter]

11. Just give them their wings and they can fly

The Clinton's past and their connections to The Bush Crime Family
and the Ruling powers are coming out now, just not on DU, but on the entire web.

Many people are not sheep any longer after viewing the last 16 years.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. Oh, well. The politics-as-usual folks win again. K&R

"From such beginnings of governments, what could be expected, but a continual system of war and extortion?" - Thomas Paine

[scarletwoman]

21. Heh. Thanks. Glad to see you!

:loveya:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. Always good to see you too.

One of the few who understand that politics is merely a tool, usually wielded by those least inclined to do anything of benefit to anyone.

"The shepherd always tries to persuade the sheep that their interests and his own are the same." - Marie Beyle

[Cha]

20. I'm just the opposite..I've felt in my

gut since 2002 that it can't be hilary..not after the lost blood and treasure she's responsible for.

[scarletwoman]

25. I'd be quite happy for your gut to prevail.

However, I still don't think getting Obama the nomination will solve much of anything in and of itself, other than keeping Clinton out. Which is, of course, an extremely desirable result.

sw

[Cha]

29. It will be hard for him and for us..

but, look at what we're trying to change. bush, cheney, rove, libby, rice, rummy and all the slime that surrounds it.

They don't want to give up that power so the forces of evil in the form of the m$$$fm, mccain, hilary and her entourage will be there at every turn to lie, twist, and stab.

[Swamp Rat]

22. I agree with you scarletwoman, on so many points and levels.

However, I do not think Hillary can win the GE, nor should she win the nomination (for all the reasons you mentioned and a brazillion more). The GOP have all the dirt on Hillary they need to destroy her. It will be played on Clear Channel 24/7, FUX Noise, and then disseminated in every redneck church and bar from coast to coast, and all points in between. Hillary has been set up to lose, but if she were to win, the military industrial complex, oil industry, and the banks already own her, so they won't mind. The one and only reason I will vote for her in the GE is SCOTUS nominations. If McNuts gets in we are all seriously fucked, likely for the rest of our lives.

So, for this 40,000th post I say farewell for a while. I need a break from DU, as I have a lot of academic work to do. :hi: :hug: :loveya:








:D

[ruby slippers]

24. will miss you swamp....hurry back.....and good luck on the schoolwork

[EFerrari]

26. Go forth and prosper, Swampy.

:hug:

[scarletwoman]

30. À bientôt, Swampy! I am deeply honored, dear friend!

Wishing you all happiness and prosperity and academic success!

:loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya: :loveya:

:hug:
Au Revoir!
:hi:
Love,
sw

[ekwhite]

36. Vaya con dios, mi amigo

I have enjoyed your posts and your wonderful Photoshops. May you do well in your academic work, and come back real soon, y'heah?

[Ichingcarpenter]

42. På gensyn

Læse skrap mig bekendt og komme ind dem akademiker papirer.

Jeg er altså glad jer kom igen hvor jer gjorde hen til lod jeres geni.

Held og lykke oven på jeres studier.

[TahitiNut]

46. #40,000 from one of my very favorite people on DU. Congrats, cousin!

:pals: :loveya:

[Kurovski]

61. Study good now, Swamp.

We'll see you soon. Happy 40,000! You know I :loveya:

[JTFrog]

62. 40,000 of the best DU's ever produced. n/t

[Adelante]

72. Congratulations and enjoy your break

:hi:

[Gore1FL]

23. Thank You

You pretty much summarized 80-90% of my position as well.

[scarletwoman]

32. You're quite welcome. And your sig line totally cracks me up!

:thumbsup:

[EFerrari]

28. . . .

:hug:

[scarletwoman]

34. Heh. I get carried away every once in awhile, you know.

}(

[ElsewheresDaughter]

33. Obama is or was DLC

[scarletwoman]

35. Oh noes!!!11!!!! I never heard that before!!!11!!!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

37. I remember something about his being on the DLC "new democrats to watch" list

[scarletwoman]

38. Thank you for kicking my thread!

If I thought it was worth the effort, I'd pull together the links that tell the full story. But I don't think it is.

[ruby slippers]

39. a lot of us already know that full story....and it ain't a pretty one

KICK again....hopefully, more will at least read your synopsis

[scarletwoman]

40. What cracks me up is partisans rushing in to dis Obama. As if I give a shit.

Thanks for the kick!

[TahitiNut]

48. No, he wasn't. He was feted and seduced but he refused and asked that his name be removed from ...

... their roster. It speaks to their eagerness to claim support beyond what exists. I.E. they lie.

[babylonsister]

50. Thanks. The DLC never entered into it. Props to him and you.

:pals:

[babylonsister]

51. Wow. You think that? How lame can you get. Google that and get

back to me. If you don't, you are just spewing shit like the m$m. You are no better.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FlyingSquirrel]

53. What exactly are you saying?

[scarletwoman]

75. I'm saying that people have a propensity for fervently demanding that which does them no good.

It's a metaphor.

sw

[Jawja]

57. The same thing happened with George W. Bush.

For two years, we knew that George W. Bush was going to be the Republican nominee. We just didn't realize at the time that he was going to eventually be President NO MATTER WHAT or HOW.

I fear the same thing here. It's going to be CLINTON regardless because the money people (oil and defense) can't risk an Obama Presidency if they can't get a McCain Presidency.

[scarletwoman]

74. Thank you. I appreciate that you understood what I meant. (nt)

[Kurovski]

58. K&R.

On every count, we are of like mind. :hi: At least in this OP! :-)

[scarletwoman]

76. Thank you, dear friend.

If I'm not mistaken, I think there's been another time or two when we were also of like mind. But I'm old, and my memory isn't always reliable...

:loveya:
sw

[cornermouse]

60. The bombs are going to drop long before Hillary or Obama get there.

Bush/Cheney are the ones who will be doing the bombing.

[scarletwoman]

78. She's still a U.S. Senator, right? Let's see how hard she fights against it, okay?

Same goes for Obama, by the way.

I think it's a good bet that neither of them will work as hard at stopping bush & cheney from bombing Iran as they will work on getting elected.

sw

[cornermouse]

84. I'm quite frustrated with Congress.

[The Night Owl]

63. The Clintons are part of the New World Order? LOL! A lot of good it did them when...

...Republicans tried to remove Bill Clinton from power for lying about sex.

[madrchsod]

64. you underestimate the power a mother figure has over the people

do the american people want an angry black man or a loving mother to soothe their worried minds? i think they want their mother to help them through the storm

[cornermouse]

65. Obama's too busy reaching out to the republicans

to be angry.

[chill_wind]

66. Kicking. n/t

[IndianaGreen]

67. You know, in reality Barrabas was a Jewish patriot opposed to Roman Occupation

There is no historical evidence to support the allegation in the Gospels that the Romans had any sort of practice commuting prisoners convicted of capital crimes on the eve of Passover, or any other major Jewish holiday. The Barrabas account in the Christian Bible is a fictional account used by the authors to shift responsibility for the execution of Jesus from the Romans to the Jews. This was the beginning of the blood libel that culminated in the Holocaust.

Back on point, you have to admit that a lot of of Democrats and other progressives now realize how the Clintons really are, and much harm they did to this country and to the Democratic Party.

[scarletwoman]

82. Thanks for posting that! I never figured that story for anything other than a piece of revisionism

designed by the powerful for their own purposes.

And your last point is also well taken. There have thankfully been more eyes opened over the last few years than there used to be.

Nice to see you still around, old-timer.

:hi:
sw

[ClericJohnPreston]

68. You lost all credibility

the moment you went BIBLE on us. BARRABAS for gosh sakes. The only time I have to hear that claptrap is around Easter or Christmas, when the horrible Anthony Quinn picture is trotted out for it's annual screening.

You also identify yourself as a NON-REALITY fool with the homage to "The New World Order".

Cue spooky music.

Get real. There is nothing biblical about politics. Get a life or join a nunnery or priesthood.

[scarletwoman]

70. It's a metaphor, dear Cleric, for the human propensity to mob up and demand

that which does them no good.

As someone who is old enough to have actually received a Classical education before such a thing went out of fashion, I find my metaphors where I please; whether in the Bible, Shakespeare, Milton, Virgil, Homer or Dante, etc. These works are all part of our shared Western literary heritage.

As for my reference to the New World Order; perhaps you are too young to remember -- or else weren't paying attention -- to Poppy Bush's repeated usage of this phrase while he was in office.

And perhaps you are also unfamiliar with the PNAC -- the Project for the New American Century -- which lays out quite clearly the intent of the hyper-imperialists of our ruling class to establish an enduring U.S. global hegemony.

The invasion and occupation of Iraq was nothing more than one of the initial phases in the implementation of this "Project".

I find it extraordinarily rude for a complete stranger to demand that I "get a life". Not to mention the fact that I assume most nunneries would be generally none too eager to give refuge to an atheist.

Have a nice day.
sw

[TragedyandHope]

69. 8 Years of Bush was the wake up call

The MSM is going crazy trying (and failing) to pretend that no heard it. America did hear it and we're finally taking a step towards getting our country back.

A Clinton Presidency wouldn't wake people up, it would just push them back to the Rethugs.

[dflprincess]

I agree with everything you said except

I don't know any good liberals who are supporting Clinton. Some have gone over to Obama and are really supporting him, most are like you and I, sort of supporting because he isn't Clinton (I also hold out the faint hope that maybe he'll surpise me and turn out to be a wonderful president.)

I've said many time that one of the great ironies of this election is that, in a year when a woman or a Black man could be elected president, the candidate that appealed to a lot of us on the left (after Kucinich) was the southern white man. Thirty years ago would you have believed that?

[dflprincess]

77. I agree with everything you said except

I don't know any good liberals who are supporting Clinton. Some have gone over to Obama and are really supporting him, most are like you and I, sort of supporting because he isn't Clinton (I also hold out the faint hope that maybe he'll surpise me and turn out to be a wonderful president.)

I've said many time that one of the great ironies of this election is that, in a year when a woman or a Black man could be elected president, the candidate that appealed to a lot of us on the left (after Kucinich) was the southern white man. Thirty years ago would you have believed that?

[scarletwoman]

81. Thanks for the post! Actually, I was using the term "good liberal" ironically.

Like you, I hold out a faint hope of being pleasantly surprised by Obama, should he get in the White House -- but mostly, you'll have to pry my cynicsm out of my cold, dead hands.

I really appreciate your point about Edwards, too. Perhaps an even more painful irony is the fact that since Kennedy, all of our Democratic presidents HAVE been southern white men!

Why oh why did it have to be THIS election where it didn't work?

Thanks again,
sw
:hi:

[stevenleser]

79. Great imagery. Hillary=Barrabas the criminal, Obama=Christ

In comparison, I would say that is right on.

[scarletwoman]

80. Actually, that was not at all what I wanted or intended to say. Obama is Barrabas, too.

The meaning of my metaphor is that people will fervently demand the shallow and easy, and that which actually has no benefit for them.

sw

[vegetabletasty]

85. How can Hillary possibly win the nomination?

Her deficit in delegates is too large.

[KoKo]

86. Did you miss today's BIG STORY...Former Clinton Ops involved in Voter Suppression

in NC and other states? NC Attorney General is investigating?

I don't see how any Progressive could vote for her after that news. I'd vote for a Ham Sandwich before I'd vote for her...and I was undecided...and am voting here in NC. Obama gets two votes from this house. I'd crawl bleeding to vote for him after finding out that Clinton Ops were suppressing black female voters.

[Lilith Velkor]

87. There is no "progressive" choice left

With John Edwards out, liberals don't even get lip service.

All we have left now is Obamamania and Clinton Derangement Syndrome, topped with a great big heap of bullshit identity politics, with a side order of more bullshit. This triggers my contrarian streak.

Speaking of which: she's not going to bomb Iran. We can't afford it. She may be corrupt as all get out but she's neither stupid nor insane.

I am under no illusion that a Hillary Presidency would not suck, but the one bright side would be Inauguration Day, watching Republicans lose their shit, maybe even seeing footage of Rush Limbaugh literally screaming himself into a fatal stroke as he realizes he helped her win unitary executive powers.

With Obama, we get another goddamn cult of personality, the same corporate boot on our necks...and not even the cold, cold comfort of revenge.