The Greatest Similarity Between McGovern & Dean Is:

[David Zephyr]

To All those who attack Dean by saying he will be another McGovern, let me tell you the ONLY similarity I see (and I know for I worked for McGovern's campaign in upstate New York in 1972) is this one:

Both McGovern and Dean endured relentless attacks from the corporate compromisers within the Democratic Party and both were betrayed by conservative Democrats.

We should have been so lucky all those years ago to have had a man like George McGovern as our President, but let me tell you all one glaring difference between these two men...

Howard Dean is a fighter and will not sit idly by. He will give as good as he gets and then some.

Of all the candidates, he is the one who will not flinch when assaulted by the GOP.

And, fellow Democrats...he will make you proud of yourselves again!

[kodi]

1. they got the same looking teeth

truth.

[brainshrub]

2. 1) They were both mammals.

2) They were both white
3) Both were men.
4) Both breathed oxygen.
5) Both loved their mothers.
6) Both looked snazzy in a necktie.

OMG! So many similaries! Dean can't win!!!

[DuctapeFatwa]

5. Great Sleuthing, brainshrub!

Separated at birth, those two.

and I never suspected...

[DancingBear]

3. They'll both win the same number of states?

Don't leave yourself so open next time... :)

[Torrey Pines]

4. McGovern was a war hero,

Dean is a fighter.

[mouse7]

6. Lets' see...

white males, American citizens...

Yep... Dean is obviously another McGovern.

[AndyHammond1970]

7. the establishment.....

and their minions that exist in both parties are showing their hand.
It's not that his positions that are radical; it his methodology of getting elected. They totally fear that a grass-roots funded President that is elected without the special interest money that dominates Washington. They Fear someone over whom their control would be severely limited.


AS for Me, every time i see Lieberman or Kerry snarl at him, it makes me know that he is the better choice.

Come Nov of 2004 I'll be ABB but for now Dean is it.


AH

[David Zephyr]

9. Nice!

It is the establishment indeed, AndyHammond1970!

[Clarkie4Dean]

8. the greatest similarity is…

the placement of the letter e in their last names.

;)

[David Zephyr]

11. Welcome to the DU!

:hi:

[newyawker99]

37. Hi Clarkie4Dean!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[saltpoint]

10. Between McGovern & Dean --

--I would say the greatest similarity would be that both men should be credited with inspiring people who might not otherwise be drawn to participate in the democratic process.

I need Bob Dylan here -- and his quote in Rolling Stone years back:

"The highest purpose ... is to inspire. What more can you do? What more can you do for anybody but inspire them?"

Hey, America -- if you had it to do over again, would you still vote for Richard M. Nixon?

[David Zephyr]

13. And Welcome to the DU, Too!

:hi:

[saltpoint]

16. --

-- Thank you, David Zephyr. Much appreciated.

[DemBones DemBones]

12. Very dedicated supporters. n/t

[David Zephyr]

14. Almost as Dedicated as Those of Kucinich!

Dennis rocks! :hi:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

15. Their detractors.

[KittyWampus]

17. I Hope You're Not Trying To Imply Dean Is NOT A Corporate Compromiser

You must have NO idea what his record as Governor is like.

[David Zephyr]

18. They Haven't Been Funding His Campaign.

And I think he knows this very well.

[Scott Lee]

21. List his big corporate donors, please.

[Gman]

19. I worked in the McGovern campaign too

and while we were all so absolutely sure McGovern was the right candidate at the right time, and we were so sure McGovern would win in November regardless of what the polls said, we were dead wrong.

[Kal Belgarion]

20. Whereas...

Deanies are certain that Dean will win in November *because* of what the polls say. ;)

[slinkerwink]

22. exactly---Dean comes off as a fighter, not as a pussy like McGovern

[no name no slogan]

23. McGovern wasn't a pussy

He was done in by a number of factors, but he was NOT a pussy in that sense of the word.

The McGovern campaign started to go wrong after the Eagleton debacle. First, McGovern, campaigning as an agent of change, selected Eagleton, the poster boy for political hack, as his VP. After word escaped that Eagleton had some mental issues in the past, he dumped him for Sargent Shriver (Maria's dad-- Ahnuld's father-in-law). This move changed a lot of people's attitudes about George-- from being an idealist to being just another political creature who'd do anything to win.

Another factor was that near the end of the primary process, his campaign became infected with the political hacks he had campaigned against on the primary trail. Many of his early supporters (young and idealogical as they were) saw this as "selling out" to the Democratic bigwigs. Needless to say, they lost a lot of enthusiasm going toward the general election with somebody who seemed to have turned into "just another politician".

And you certainly can't forget the Nixon Factor. Nixon's Campaign to Re-Elect the President (CREEP) was shaking down regular big-money Democratic contributors (like George Steinbrenner, for instance), and threatening them unless they didn't.

If you haven't read it, read "Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail 1972" by Hunter S. Thompson. Thompson followed the McGovern campaign from its longshot beginnings in December 1971 until the bitter defeat in 1972. He gives an insight into a political campaign unlike any other you'll probably find.

[KoKo]

29. Nice post on this. Good background on what happened to McGovern

to go along with David's original post. Thanks. I remember the campaign also. And, that's pretty much what hurt McGovern and I hope Dean will not make the same mistakes. I don't think he will because his style if very different, and his money is from the grassroots. McGovern had to depend on the "machine." As they all have had to in the past. The machine and the Corporate givers.

[QC]

36. McG. was a WWII bomber pilot--flew 35 missions over Europe.

Not bad for a "pussy."

[Zomby Woof]

39. What are they teaching you in school these days???

McGovern??? A pussy???? :wtf:

I know that lots of Dean supporters love denigrating the CURRENT field of Democratic candidates these days, but must you soil the great Democrats of the past??

Is this how the frontrunner mentality manifests itself??

If Dean gets the nod, and loses to Bush in a landslide, will that make Dean a pussy too? Or will there be yet another DoubleDean standard in the works?

I have read some questionable posts by you, but after the Rulergirl stunt, and now the denigration of McGovern's name, there is no more question in my mind that ________________________________________!

[Raya]

24. None. Except for likely result of GE against Bush

[JaneQPublic]

25. McGovern ran a a rather inept campaign, and Dean...

...no, wait, Dean is running one of the most effective campaigns in recent history, so that's not a similarity.

McGovern had trouble raising money and Dean... nope, that's not a similarity, either.

McGovern called for the immediate withdrawal from Vietnam, and Dean is NOT calling for immediate withdrawal from Iraq.

McGovern favored abolishing capital punishment and Dean doesn't.

McGovern failed to get the support of big labor, and Dean has done quite well with labor.

McGovern failed to get endorsements from many party regulars, and Dean is raking them in.

McGovern supported the decriminalizing of marijuana, and Dean doesn't.

McGovern favored banning the sale of handguns, and Dean got "A" ratings from the NRA.

McGovern supported amnesty for draft evaders and a guaranteed minimum income for all Americans, and Dean doesn't support anything like that.

So, I guess there really aren't that many similarities, if any.

[bitchkitty]

34. Just one thing -

McGovern supported the decriminalizing of marijuana, and Dean doesn't.

He doesn't support or not support it (does that make sense?). He respects the ability of each states' citizens to decide for themselves on matters like these. I love this man.

I'm very active in the medical marijuana movement, I am a card holder and a part of Oregon Green Free, a network of patients and caregivers who help each other.

[John_H]

26. The margin they'll lose by

[SCB]

27. They were/are each the Democratic candidate that the

Repubs most wanted to run against

[Leilani]

28. They both led idealistic dreamers

over a cliff to oblivion.

[w4rma]

35. I'm a pragmatist, thank you. (n/t)

[cryofan]

30. But McGovern was a True Liberal, and Dean is a Conservative?!

McGovern was a strong and true liberal. In sharp contrast to that, Dean is a Conservative multimillionaire born and bred to Park Avenue luxury. And what kind of liberal talks like Dean did when he was the governor of Vermont? When he was VT Gov, Dean verbally slammed the Left like a redheaded stepchild every chance he got. Of course, now that Dean is trying to get the primary votes of Liberals, oh, well, he talks like he is channeling McGovern's ghost! Butter wouldn't melt in his mouth....

But if you really want to see the REAL Howard Dean III, just take a look at Dean's own words from when he was VT governor in the 90s:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Most of the Democrats in the legislature rebelled against Dean over the budget cuts, and he ended up depending on Republican votes to pass most of his proposals. At the time, a local Vermont newspaper wrote, "The biggest items on Dean’s agenda for next year are likely to provoke more opposition from the Democrats than the Republicans. Nevertheless, Dean said he feels no particular pressure to deliver the goods to his party or to promote the Democratic agenda."15

In the mid-1990s, Dean even aligned himself with the likes of Republican Newt Gingrich on his stance on cutting Medicare. He opined at the time, "The way to balance the budget is for Congress to cut Social Security, move the retirement age to 70, cut defense, Medicare and veterans pensions, while the states cut everything else."16
....
The Rutland Herald described how one protestor, Henrietta Jordan of the Vermont Center for Independent Living, "said it would be much fairer to raise taxes on people with expensive homes and cars, children in private school and a housekeeper at home than to cut programs that helped the 66,000 Vermonters living with disabilities."17 Dean responded callously, brushing off the pleas of Vermont’s most vulnerable by saying, "This seems like sort of the last gasp of the left here."18"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The rest of this article is here:
http://www.isreview.org/issues/32/dean.shtml

[KoKo]

31. cryofan,Link to DU thread with rebuttals of your post "Dean's Deception."

Just in case any DU'ers who have questions and didn't see the rebuttals offered by Dean's fellow Vermonters who live in the same state as the author of the article.

The Dean Deception, Part II:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=16930

[cryofan]

32. don't see where you rebutted the quotes in my post above--just handwaving

You did a lot of handwaving about numbers, but what about the quotes?

[KoKo]

33. I linked your DU post and thread with rebuttals from the "Archives." Here

is a nice little piece from William Greider's article on Dean in Vermont:
http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20031215&s=greider
The man also stands his ground in a fight. When someone jabs him, he jabs back. Pundits describe this quality as dangerous, and no doubt it gets him into trouble occasionally, but what a refreshing departure from the rope-a-dope calculations of the Clinton era. This trait is what I like about him most. In my experience, it's more revealing than a politician's positions on issues. With issues, Dean is pretty much what he says: a middle-of-the-road moderate, neither left nor right, though middle in Vermont is liberal ground. As governor, he was skilled at maneuvering through contending forces, sometimes angering both sides in the process.

I first observed these qualities during Dean's second-to-last term as governor. Vermonters were inflamed--everyone was coming after him--when he and Democratic legislators enacted the infamous Act 60, a school-financing-equalization law that compelled the "gold towns" to share their property-tax revenues with poorer townships. Faced with general outrage, Dean barked back at the storm. The remark I remember reading in the Rutland Herald went something like this: "I know why people are angry at me. They've been getting away with low tax rates and well-financed schools. They're not going to be able to do that anymore."

Wow, I thought. This is a different kind of politician--no ducking the blame, no cute obfuscation. The law isn't perfect, Dean added. We will fix it later if we have to. (They did.) Vermont progressives were upset, too, because Dean had refused to consider raising income taxes to finance the schools. His logic, however, was more liberal than it appeared. Raising income taxes would put all the burden on Vermonters, many of whom are poor. Raising property taxes--with a generous homestead exemption for full-time residents--put the big hit on the out-of-state people who own so many lovely vacation homes there. Dean did not explain this to the "flatlanders," but we figured it out.

[KoKo]

38. Howard Dean gave BIG on CNN this afternoon. Even Media Whore

Bill Schneider gave him a HUGE pass in the "afters coverage" with Woodruff, Greenfield, Crowley.

Even they couldn't say that Dean didn't "hold his core support."

But, I think Edwards and Moseley-Braun WON THAT DEBATE.......no matter what the Media Whores think and how they "spin it" for their "story of the night." They were Magnificent! (My Post and Thread got locked on this, where I went into more detail....but i give them both A++ for their Performance.

This DEBATE was one of the better ones I've seen and I've seen them all.

[snyttri]

40. The lack of appeal to independent voters.