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An answer to the "why are all the black people voting for Obama" question

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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 08:45 PM
Original message
An answer to the "why are all the black people voting for Obama" question
Edited on Wed May-07-08 09:15 PM by EffieBlack
This question continually comes up - in some instances, it is being raised as a genuine question, in others, it is being used to divide and diminish voters.

I address this response to those who ask the question in good faith. If you intend to engage in race-baiting and divisive rhetoric, this is not for you.

First, it is an error to automatically assume that because blacks are voting for Obama in significantly different percentages than whites, it is the black vote that should be questioned. It is just as valid to inquire why white voters are only voting for him in the 40 percent range.

Second, the very strong support for Obama in the black community does have a racial component to it, but not the component that many people are assuming. One of the primary reasons that Obama is getting a large black vote is that, far from being biased toward him because he is black, black voters are not biased against him because he is black. In other words, black voters are much more likely to view him with an open mind and not through all manner of color prisms that most blacks are filtered through when being judged by whites. Black voters are looking at him objectively, color-blindly - the way that it is assumed that white voters view white candidates.

For example, as I have repeatedly noted, white Democratic presidential candidates have gotten 99% of the white primary vote where black candidates were also running, yet this demographic has rarely been accused of "monolithic bloc-voting." They are just assumed to be casting a racially-neutral vote when they vote overwhelmingly for candidates of their own race.

On the other hand, white voters are viewing Obama less objectively and are setting up various "hurdles" of acceptability that he must clear before they will feel comfortable trusting him with their vote - hurdles that they do not set up for white candidates. This is not necessarily racist or bigoted or even wrong. It is simply that white voters are not as familiar with blacks and, in many cases, aren't sure about Obama, since they may not have been exposed to many African American politicians in this context. The fact that Obama's support among whites is growing, not lessening, shows that the more white voters learn about him, the more comfortable they become with him and the more likely they are to vote for him. That is the very essence of social growth.

Conversely, black voters are very used to white candidates - and white folks in general. This is and always has been a common fact of life in America since many whites can go through their entire lives without having any meaningful interactions with or significant exposure to blacks; most blacks, on the other hand, cannot go through a day without being exposed to, indeed immersed in, white culture. So we are very comfortable voting for white candidates - since that's pretty much all we've had to choose from. But we are JUST as at ease voting for black candidates, if we believe they are qualified. And we're very discerning and savvy and don't throw away our precious and hard-won votes on candidates just because they share our skin color.

So, when black voters line up to vote for Obama, we are not voting race, we're voting our interests, just like every other sophisticated voting demographic. But it's been easier for us to assess whether or not he is a good candidate because we were not hung up on superficialities like his skin color. We already know people like him. While to many white Americans, Obama seems to be a very unusual black person - an anomaly - most black folk know plenty of men and women just like him - smart, highly-educated, accomplished, and, yes, articulate. (You don't hear black folk walking around marveling, "He's so ARTICULATE!" We're more likely to say, "Of COURSE the brother's articulate. You think Harvard's giving out law degrees to Boo Boo the Fool?") He reminds us of our brothers and sons and husbands and uncles and cousins and teachers and mentors and neighbors and friends. But these men are often invisible to the larger white society, whose perspectives of black men are all-too-often shaped by the cramped and distorted images they see on television.

So, while the black support for Obama has a racial context, it is not racist. Black voters are not voting for him because he is black. We are just better able, because of our own experiences, to look at him objectively DESPITE his race. His race doesn't blind us to his qualities. We don't have to see past his race to get to who he is. He never had to TRANSCEND his race in order for us to connect with him. In fact, among black voters, Obama is working on a level playing field.

One of the beauties of this primary season is that voters are being exposed to something new and are demonstrating that they are indeed ready to consider an African American (and a woman) with an open mind. The fact that it may take some longer than others to get to that point is not a problem - people learn and reach their comfort levels at different paces.

This is why I resisted so strongly when people insisted that "America isn't ready for a black president." I know that people aren't ready until they get ready. And they get ready by learning and growing through interaction, contact and exposure. This campaign has enabled the voters to do that and, for that reason, it has been a beautiful thing to see.
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. An excellent post. K&R.
Thanks, EB! :loveya:
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
130. I second that motion - Positively EXCELLENT. K&R too.
Wonderfully written EffieBlack - thanks so much for putting into words how I, and all my non-black friends feel when we made our choice for Barack Obama. :bounce:
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. Excellent OP!
Thank you for posting this, it was sorely needed, imo, and I hope many will read and recommend.

Recommended.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. Where does this little factoid come from, Iowa?
"For example, as I have repeatedly noted, white Democratic presidential candidates have gotten 99% of the white primary vote where black candidates were also running, yet this demographic has rarely been accused of "monolithic bloc-voting." They are just assumed to be casting a racially-neutral vote when they vote overwhelmingly for candidates of their own race."
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Look at the 2004 Democratic primary results
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
52. What about"88, what about 2008? What is this 99% number? Is it some sort of
device used for illustrative purposes, or is it a real number?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
44. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #44
51. Deleted message
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. please don't call me fuckhead
i don't go by my first name. :rofl:
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Can't answer the question? Didn't think you would even try.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. okay you're not a dumbass
Edited on Wed May-07-08 11:54 PM by CreekDog
but you have no sense of humor.

and since you stated what blacks *do*, then I only need to come up with one example to prove you are wrong and I did, Carol Moseley Braun.

you see, you argued that this is WHAT THEY DO, you didn't say SOMETIMES WITH THE RIGHT CANDIDATE IN THE RIGHT YEAR (which wouldn't make it racism by the way).

so too bad for you.
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 05:34 AM
Response to Reply #3
73. heh, couldn't resist, huh?
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #73
141. Couldn't resist calling out outright lies, is that what you mean?
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #141
190. outright lies, according to you.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #190
193. Show me where this is the truth with links, guesses or exagerrations.
"For example, as I have repeatedly noted, white Democratic presidential candidates have gotten 99% of the white primary vote where black candidates were also running, yet this demographic has rarely been accused of "monolithic bloc-voting." They are just assumed to be casting a racially-neutral vote when they vote overwhelmingly for candidates of their own race."
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #193
196. I'm trying to figure out what you have a problem with about this statement.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #196
201. white candidates have gotten 99% of the white primary vote where black candidates were also running
"white Democratic presidential candidates have gotten 99% of the white primary vote where black candidates were also running.."

That is false, and people are trying to defend it by attacking me.
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Connonym Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
83. have you ever even BEEN to Iowa?
Talk about stereotyping. I'm from Iowa, my family still lives in Iowa, you don't know jack shit about Iowans and your stereotyping Iowans only makes you look like an asshole.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #83
144. Do you have a clue what you are talking about? I am questioning the paragraph from the OP,
Edited on Thu May-08-08 11:52 AM by 2rth2pwr
you do see the quote marks, don't you? Do you believe the statement is any way reflective of real numbers?

I brought up Iowa because it was obvious that white people voted for the black candidate, completely invalidating the claims of the OP.

Before you go around calling people names, maybe you could figure out what the hell is going on around you.

No one has yet to answer truthfully, just willing to respond irrationally.

Why is that?
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Connonym Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #144
199. yes I know what I'm talking about, do you?
Are you familiar with the Iowa population demographic or are you assuming that everyone in Iowa is a white farmer? Your comment about Iowa seems to indicate that you buy into that assumption. I'm really tired of seeing all over on DU that Iowa is irrelevant, that Iowans are hicks, racists and all manner of other insults. Iowa is not a firmly red state, W won by a very small majority and Iowa has a Democratic governor. The people of Iowa are smarter than you give us credit for, more diverse than you give us credit for and I'm tired of Iowa being the butt of jokes. I will concede to you that my ire isn't directed solely at your comment but is an accumulation of frustration about all the Iowa bashing I've witnessed on DU since the primaries started. Perhaps I misinterpreted your comment but to me it seemed to imply that Iowa is the one place where 99% of the vote was for a white candidate. I apologize if I misunderstood the point you were trying to make but please understand my point of view, which is that Iowa is unfairly maligned and, admittedly, I'm overly sensitive to this.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #199
202. No, I used Iowa because that is where Obama won, so to the OP, I was showing that it is
ridiculous to say that in Dem primaries where there is a black candidate, the white candidate gets 99% of the vote.

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Connonym Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #202
203. My apologies for misinterpreting your post
thank you for clarifying what you meant and I apologize for getting all testy with you.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #203
205. no problemo.
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Kittycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. This post makes entirely too much sense for GDP
Excellent insight. Thank you for sharing.
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frickaline Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. While this may be true of some, to make a generic, blanket statement about why a group voted the
Edited on Wed May-07-08 08:59 PM by frickaline
way that they did is pretty presumptuous. Maybe someone else just thought it might be cool to have a black president? Or maybe someone thought, "oooo snappy dresser!", or, "hey now there's a name I can spell!" I mean you have no idea what goes on in some people's head.

Perhaps this post reflects why YOU voted for Obama, but to make this assumption of the entire black community seems kind of like Rev Wright speaking for the whole black church. ;)


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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I don't think anyone is assuming that I am referring to entire black community
Well - maybe one person is. ;-) But I think everyone else completely understands my point.
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frickaline Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I guess it must have been when you said:
"why are >>>>all<<< the black people voting for Obama"

hehehe ... afraid that misled me a bit
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. That's why I put that in quotes
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Voltaire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #9
94. I applaud your post
and you speak for me as a member of the Black Community. I could have not have expressed that any better. Good for YOU!

Black people DO see and interact with black people like Barack every single day. But if all you see is black men on the news committing crime, with no counterbalance since the Cosby Show isn't on anymore, then of course he is a strange and new thing to Whites.

But its always black people that have the bias problem. Or so they say.
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jonestonesusa Donating Member (630 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #6
114. Why don't you try addressing the arguments
instead of attacking the poster?

Thanks for taking the time to write a great post - it's clear that the conversation to familiarize all Americans with black political behavior and culture is badly needed - even in 2008. I really appreciate Obama being willing to help generate that conversation nationally. I support his policies as well as his activist response to the problems of economic stratification, non-participation in politics by many people in the U.S., and other challenges that will require us all to put bigotry and sexism away if we're going to succeed.

And here on GDP, there's also not nearly enough conversation from all sides about his policies, though a few posters consistently point to his policy positions.

As an African American voter and educator, I agree 100%. Your post certainly speaks to me and for my own view of this primary race.
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JustAnotherGen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. Excellent points Effie!
:toast: But as a bi-racial person? Who strongly supported Edwards? I DO view him as a bi-racial person . . . And I find that VERY appealing. I think like me? Being well educated, affluent (though I don't share the poverty background) -

I can relate to him in a way that I THOUGHT I related to Clinton and can't for one minute relate to that artifact McSame.

He had to win me over on policy and perspective - but once he made that 'bitter' comment - he had me. He let me know that he doesn't care who you are, he gets WHY someone who feels "left out" would say, "Well at least I'll have this or that with this Republican candidate." Meanwhile, other candidates stick their head in the sand (I'm directing this at McSame - NOT Clinton) and say, "It's not bad. And if it is - I'll appoint a conservative judge so you can keep your guns so all will be okay."

Proud gun owner. And I know damn well Barack Obama isn't going to get in office and overturn Amendment 2. For that matter, neither will Hillary Clinton.

The other thing, and this has been watching the Blatant Secret Service attachment . . . this guy is tough. I can't remember seeing the SS stand out so blatantly (last night post his speech was a perfect example). No matter the death threat, the vitriol that let's face it - the guy is getting far worse than what those folks down in Jena go -

He's sticking it out. He's not going away. Time for the fringe elements to admit their beat. And truth be told - I'm JUST as proud of Hillary Clinton for sticking it out.

At the end of the day - we had two tough as nails candidates who don't 'look' they way candidates have EVER looked before at the final two.

Who else is proud to be a Democrat because of these two? :pals:
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
8. Sometimes people just vote what they know with no undertones or
bad feelings... I have no idea what is important to them, but I believe they vote what they know...
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GetTheRightVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
10. HRC gets the white older working class people
and she gets most of the women due to gender.
Give me a break !!!!
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. Great post Effie. Rec'd n/t
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
14. I find it annoying when they show exit polls on CNN
and it's "White female", "White male", and "Black" vote

I mean really, are Black voters androgynous or something? Why not divide it up into "Black female" and "Black male" if they're gonna show those ridiculous stats?
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. That's one of my great pet peeves, as well
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JustAnotherGen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:06 PM
Original message
Excellent point
And I can't remember another election where this was emphasized so much . . .
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MindMatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:29 PM
Original message
Me too
And somewhere along the way, that particular narrative changed. A couple of months ago, the media was trying to create a false dichotomy, portraying "the black woman" as being torn between her "womanness" which drew her to Hillary and her "blackness" which drew her to Obama. I'm neither black nor a woman, but I think that sounded pretty offensive. It says that said "black woman" don't have no sense and can only go with these primitive reptilian stimuli.

What a load of crap that is. The black people I know are, on average, far more tuned into the political scene than the average white person. And in the end, "black woman" didn't largely side with Hillary. But that didn't have anything to do with chromosomes or estrogen. It might have had a bit to do with the frequent race-baiting that Hillary and Bill kept tossing into the mix.

Rather than deal with that, the media simply changed the narrative, to "OK so Obama can carry the blacks, but how is he going to do with whites?"

Of course that one is nonsense too because Obama is carrying a huge majority of well educated whites. It has nothing to do with skin pigments. It has to do with his appeal to reason rather than a constant reference to boogeymen and 3:00 phone calls.

OK, I'll admit Obama doesn't stand much of a chance with white racists. We;ll just have to live with that one.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
37. You are so right - I forgot about that!
The msm crawled all around South Carolina shoving their mics in black women's faces asking, "Are you voting race or gender?"

Funny - they didn't ask white men that question.

And then they completely dropped it.
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retread Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #14
71. It reminds me of the days when public restrooms were labeled-- "men"," women", and
"colored".

When CNN does it, I don't find it annoying. I find it revealing!
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crankychatter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
16. Perfect Post - I don't think we're worth educating BUT it's a necessary evil - n/t
thanks
:-)
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. :-)
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. I Still Haven't Seen Any Consistent Criticism of the Black Vote For Obama
Edited on Wed May-07-08 09:10 PM by Crisco
Although many have noted it, few, if any, ever had a problem with the vote.

What I have a problem with, as do many others, is the fact that everyone is down with Obama getting the black vote while women who vote for Hillary Clinton are portrayed negatively as "voting with their vaginas." We have been subjected to a constant stream of "I'd love to vote for a woman, just not THAT woman," we have been subjected to 2-20 threads a week where some purported "Feminist" says it's wrong wrong WRONG to vote for Hillary Clinton.

The majority of sincere Clinton supporters have never called it racism that black Americans could vote for Obama in such huge numbers without harassment.

My resentment is reserved for the white, allegedly progressive men who refused female Democrats who leaned towards Clinton the same respect.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. I think it's a matter of perspective
You may not be as sensitive to the criticisms/dismissals of the black vote for Obama while the same approach to Clinton's female voters may not be as obvious to me because of what hits closer to home for each of us. But we don't need to play "my resentment is more valid than yours." The attitude problems we each see are very widespread.

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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. Well, I Gotta Ask You, Then
You have made several threads this season about racist attacks from the Clintons. In what % of these threads would you say you were accused of whining? In about what % of other peoples' accusations of race-baiting charges against the Clintons, about what % would you estimate there were responses where the OP was accused of whining?
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. I knew it was only a matter of time before YOU showed up with your b.s.
You are so predictable . . .
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. And So Are You, My Friend
So are you ....
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #32
66. Clintons using the GOP playbook
Richard Mellon Scaife
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. One of the problems we have is we have broken everything down
to what is white, and what is black, and what is male, and what is female...

The simple solution is to look at everyone as a perspective voter for our candidate in the GE...

I think that would be the best way to bring us together instead of group us into one of the afore mentioned groups....
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #17
62. If you don't know anything about 70s feminism, here's a big clue for you
Being feminist and being antiwar were one and the same thing back then. To many 70s feminists, IWR, Kyl-Lieberman and "obliterating" Iran were absolutely unacceptable in any candidate, period.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #62
107. If You Knew Anything About Feminism, Period
You'd know it's about making your own decisions and not being shoved around by patriarchal forces.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #107
184. My decision is to not support a patriarchal warmonger who wants to obliterate Iran
--or even thinks that threatening such is acceptable public discourse.
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Willo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
18. K&R Effie! n/t
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
20. k&r
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
21. Beautifully done, Sister.
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my2sense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
22. Excellent breakdown K & R
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
24. All of my Black neighbors voted for Hillary in the California primary
A total of five, retired military and their spouses, now they support Obama. They really didn't know much
about him back then, or Edwards, but they knew Hillary. Now they totally support his candidacy whole heartedly.

They said that Hillary went too negative and didn't like the pandering.

They don't even know about Bill's South Carolina statement and I didn't tell them either.

good post EffieBlack
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liberalcanuck Donating Member (339 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #24
105. This is a great point. Clinton was getting a greater share of the black
Edited on Thu May-08-08 08:46 AM by liberalcanuck
vote in the earlier stages of the primary. Then Clinton realized, "Holy shit, these people aren't just handing me the nomination. I could actually lose this thing!" and shifted her tactics by going negative. Being an African-American, I can say for me that moment was when Bill Clinton was so dismissive of Obama's win in South Carolina with the infamous "Jesse Jackson won South Carolina in '84 and '88. Jackson ran a good campaign. And Obama ran a good campaign here" comment. There's no doubt in my mind that this was said intentionally - and I was appalled because I so deeply admired the Clintons. The race-baiting galvanized the black electorate which had the intended reaction of galvanizing the so-called "white blue-collar" voter. And let's face it, their strategy was very effective or else Obama would have sewn this thing up a long time ago. They almost succeeded in narrowly defining him as the "black candidate".


With that said though I'm still optimistic that we can get the party unified. Let's get back to the gains we made in a state like Wisconsin:

"But in a brief, sharp-edged campaign in Wisconsin, Obama also made inroads among women and blue-collar voters, who have more typically backed Clinton.

He won more than half of all voters without a college degree - about 60% of the Democratic electorate. He won more than half of those with family incomes under $50,000. He dominated among white men - 63% to 34%. He won union households by 9 percentage points. And he battled Clinton to a draw among women.

All of these groups were components of an overwhelmingly white electorate (87%) with a grim view of the economy. It also was an electorate hungry for change, an impulse that exit polls showed decisively favored Obama."

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=719960

That's something to be hopeful about.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #105
146. Being X military their #1 concern was on Defense
and Obama's experience that was spun on the TV. They watch TV and don't really use the internet
to get their news.


Democrats 100%, like I said, their later decision to support Obama was made by negative campaign and pandering
and not on Race and with further exposure to Obama's ideas. The gas tax holiday was a joke to us since we pay over $4.00 for gas here.
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BklnDem75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #24
160. That was exactly my stance...
I was honestly on the fence because I did not know enough about Obama. Still under the impression that Hillary was gonna take the nomination. The Clintons were well respected, especially around my old neighborhood in Harlem, where Bill has an office up there. Then Obama came in like a tidal wave and caught everyone off guard. The more we learned, the more we liked. I'm pretty positive it was a toss up between Obama and Clinton in my community. Then came the kitchen sink with Wright and Farrakhan. Two well respected black men being used as hammers to batter Obama. I'm honestly surprised people are surprised about Obama's black majority. As if there'd be no consequence to her actions.
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
25. Great post, Effie. And I think a lot of people have forgotten that in the
beginning, a lot of blacks were saying they wouldn't vote for Obama, because they didn't know him well, which goes to the point that you are making (I believe) that black people aren't voting for Obama JUST BECAUSE he's black (and why so many whites and other races are voting FOR him). They like what they see and hear and know about him.

If the "voting for him only because he's black" meme were true, then it would also hold that Al Sharpton should have been in the serious running for President.

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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. You're right
It's been interesting to hear some of the arguments about this:

Them: The only explanation for 90% support by blacks is that blacks are voting for him because he's black.

Me: But blacks have traditionally voted in large percentages for white candidates against black candidates. For example, only 20% of blacks voted for Al Sharpton in 2004.

Them: Well of course. That's because he wasn't qualified (or viable).

Me: So you're saying that black voters didn't vote for Sharpton because he wasn't qualified, but they're voting for Obama because he's black? If they were voting for candidates based on race, wouldn't they have voted for Sharpton whether or not he was qualified?

Them: That was then. This is now.

Me: Never mind . . .
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. That's the kind of "illogical logic" that makes my head spin.
And sometimes, "Never mind...." is the best response.

:)

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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #34
50. ". . . and the wisdom to know the difference . . ."
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #50
63. Can't help it--I always think "and the wisdom--
--to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they PISSED ME OFF!!!"
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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #28
67. yes...it's looney.
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
27. I think Whoopi's explanation was more accurate.
You are jumping to conclusions and making wild assumptions about people you have never met and in all probability never will.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Oh, snap - you busted me
Edited on Wed May-07-08 09:30 PM by EffieBlack
Here I thought I had everyone fooled into thinking that I have met or will meet every single black person in America. But you're much too smart for me.
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Would you like a picture of my wedding party?
Edited on Wed May-07-08 09:40 PM by cornermouse
There was more than one minority in it.

I'd tell you the reasons I don't like Obama (coincidentally it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with lack of experience, lack of actual policies and the strange idea that "hope" trumps everything for everyone) but I'm tired of saying it and you don't want to hear it anyway.

Oh and by the way, Whoopi's explanation in case you missed it was because people look at Obama running for president and feel that they have arrived. I think I also remember her saying something to the effect that if he gets the White House they will have a feeling of ownership in the government because he is black like them.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. What does the racial makeup of your wedding party have to do with this discussion?
And your assumption that I'm not interested in hearing your views about Obama is wrong. Unlike some, I have no problem hearing and even learning from views that differ from mine. What I'm not interested in is petty sniping about issues that are far too deep and important to lend themselves to the kind of shallow and ignorant blathering that all-too-often passes for "analysis."
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. You're accusing people of being racist.
I'm just told you you're wrong.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. You obviously did not read my post before you mischaracterized it
"This is not necessarily racist or bigoted or even wrong. It is simply that white voters are not as familiar with blacks and, in many cases, aren't sure about Obama, since they may not have been exposed to many African American politicians in this context."

I in no way accused anyone of being racist - in fact, I said just the opposite. If you had actually read my post, you would not have claimed I did otherwise - unless you know better and decided to lie about it anyway.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #33
61. What in the world??
Would you like a picture of my wedding party?

What in God's name does that have to do with ANYTHING??
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #33
121. Wow, please be a cliche why don't you.
"Some of my best friends are (insert ethnicity here)."
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #27
75. Her post was excellent and very understanding. Very positive.
It doesn't accuse anyone of racism, just makes a very astute observation.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #27
92. Is it possible you did a skim-and-post rather than...
a solid read of the OP followed by a thoughtful response?
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NJSecularist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
35. ...
First, it is an error to automatically assume that because blacks are voting for Obama in significantly different percentages than whites, it is the black vote that should be questioned. It is just as valid to inquire why white voters are only voting for him in the 40 percent range.


Whites are not voting around 90% for Hillary, consistently, contest after contest. It is apples and oranges. Whites are not even close to being a block voting group in this primary as compared to blacks.

On the other hand, white voters are viewing Obama less objectively and are setting up various "hurdles" of acceptability that he must clear before they will feel comfortable trusting him with their vote - hurdles that they do not set up for white candidates.

False. He needs to meet the same hurdles as every other candidate. Where do you get this kind of stuff?

So, when black voters line up to vote for Obama, we are not voting race, we're voting our interests, just like every other sophisticated voting demographic. But it's been easier for us to assess whether or not he is a good candidate because we were not hung up on superficialities like his skin color.

So 90% of blacks are giving their votes to another black person and it has nothing to do with skin color?

What if 90% of whites were supporting a white candidate when a black candidate was in the race? Would that have nothing to do with skin color?

Black voters are not voting for him because he is black.

So 90% of black voters are voting for him based on his inherent qualities and experiences? So why didn't they vote for Edwards? Edwards got 3% of the white vote in South Carolina. To say that black voters are not voting for Obama because he is black is quite disingenious. The racial lines were already beginning to form before South Carolina.

In fact, among black voters, Obama is working on a level playing field.

What level playing field? Getting 90% of the black vote is a level playing field?
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #35
64. You'd best send these wise observations to President Sharpton, ASAP! n/t
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 05:35 AM
Response to Reply #35
74. Let President Jesse Jackson know about this.
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jonestonesusa Donating Member (630 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #35
117. Let's cut to the chase...
Were you comfortable with 90% of black votes going to Democrats at the top of the ticket in the GE for Gore, Kerry, etc.?

Are you aware of how much black support the Clintons have always had? Were you comfortable with that?

Why, then, is it so unfair for black voters to support Obama in these numbers?

You've ignored several of the posts of black voters here that help to clarify why they switched from H-Clinton to Obama, in a national trend. I have never personally been a Bill Clinton fan - always seemed too conservative, opportunistic, and fake to me, although I do think he did a good job on the fiscal side and championed thoughtful under the radar legislation such as family leave, good diplomatic work in the Mideast, Ireland, etc. My mom, though, who grew up Arkansas, in a town named after the KKK founder, BTW (Forrest City, AK), was always a big Clinton fan. She even made excuses for the Lewinsky situation (she was unconvinced when I asked her if she would regard my behavior the same way if I did that with a student at work!). At this point, though, after both Clintons' intentional slights and plays to Dixiecrat bigotry against the first viable black candidate for president, she no longer supports either Clinton. And in terms of her breadth of reading, experience, critical thinking, and surviving to raise four kids living in poverty in the racist, segregated America of the 60s and before, I would put her wisdom against anyone's.

So you can go on questioning the legitimacy of black voter choices if you want to, and you probably will. But it's bunk, and it's especially shameful coming from someone on a Democrat site. Black people have earned their votes in this country, no matter who they support. We all wouldn't have had to deal with Bush if white voters were as discerning as black voters, who rejected him in huge numbers.

Grieve over Clinton if you want to, but stop questioning the honest votes of African Americans in the Democratic party. There's another major political party that specializes in that - although even McCain and Huckabee spoke out against Wright-bashing. Not so for the Clintons - any possible advantage no matter how short term, take advantage.

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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #117
142. Truer words were never spoken
"We all wouldn't have had to deal with Bush if white voters were as discerning as black voters, who rejected him in huge numbers."

Black American voters = The Canary in the Coalmine, if people are willing to listen

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ExPatLeftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #35
123. So what is your point?
Doesn't each individual have the right to vote based on whatever criteria they deem necessary?

I must that I am bewildered that some supporters of Clinton are complaining about the "block" black vote. When we speak in percentages, we sometimes forget that each individual included in that percent has gone through the process of selecting the candidate that best suits them, as is their right.

How is this not "fair"? Do you advocate doing something about this? What is the point, exactly?
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #35
125. It has been for every Democrat that has gotten that same %.
WTF are talking about?
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
36. AWESOME POST!!!!! You said it PERFECTLY!!!!!
:thumbsup:

K&R
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mystieus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
38. You forget Hillary was getting 70% of the black vote before South Carolina. Do you know what happen?
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. No. Tell us.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #38
78. Two things happened at the same time...
Bill Clinton tipped a sacred cow in an attempt to put Obama in his place, and Obama simply became a viable alternative.
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Jane Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
42. Great post.
When you say "His race doesn't blind us to his qualities. We don't have to see past his race to get to who he is," it reminds me of what hit me the other day, although you say it more eloquently.

What suddenly hit me was that Black voters can see his qualities because most of them aren't afraid of a black man!


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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. Exactly!
Edited on Wed May-07-08 10:14 PM by EffieBlack
"Black men are scary. Barack Obama is a black man. Therefore, Barack Obama MUST be a scary black man."
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
43. that was a cool breeze after a hot summer`s afternoon...
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. Sweet
thank you.
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JBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
45. I loved this OP. Well done.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
48. Great OP.
Thanks.
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TragedyandHope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
54. K & R "If you could walk a mile in my shoes."
:kick:
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
57. Here's the breakdown of Obama states won and percentage of "white voters"
Here's the list where Obama won and the white (and non-Latino) percentages:


Iowa 92.60%
South Carolina 66.10%
Alabama 70.30%
Alaska 67.60%
Colorado 74.50%
Connecticut 77.50%
Delaware 72.50%
Georgia 62.60%
Idaho 88.00%
Illinois 67.80%
Kansas 83.10%
Minnesota 88.20%
Missouri 83.80%
North Dakota 91.70%
North Carolina 70.20%
Utah 85.30%
Louisiana 62.50%
Nebraska 87.30%
Washington 78.90%
Maine 96.50%
Washington 78.90%
D.C. 27.80%
Maryland 62.10%
Virginia 70.20%
Hawaii 22.90%
Wisconsin 87.30%
Vermont 96.20%
U.S. Virgin Islands --
Democrats Abroad ==
Wyoming 88.90%
Mississippi 60.70%


http://www.swivel.com/data_sets/spreadsheet/1002654
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mcollier Donating Member (887 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #57
79. Thanks for the stats
The truth is Barack Obama is getting the majority of votes from those who are white. Why then is there only the questioning of the motives of the black voters? This fallacy is a mainstream media programming tactic of misinformation.

Obama represents what we believe should be the standard for a politician, not perfect but honest, sincere, highly intelligent, able to lead effectively, having empathy for all people, professional, having excellent communication skills, and level headed.

People see this qualities in Barack Obama. We should demand and vote for politicians who display genuinely these qualities.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #79
82. It's also very strange that those who are trying impute racist motives in the large black Obama vote
insist that any analysis of their claim be conducted in a vacuum - they only want to look at 2008 and ignore and reject any comparison with previous years because a broader analysis destroys their argument.

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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
58. Exactly...
Edited on Thu May-08-08 12:03 AM by goclark
We should not have to explain this to Progressive Democrats but I suppose some people have slipped in from another Board.

Thanks for your post. From now on , I'll just say "See Effie's Post"


:hi:
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
59. This is by far the best post I have read here in some time and I believe you are absolute correct in
your assessment. Thank you very much for your insight. I know what you are saying is true, but I could never find the words to express it. Spot on.
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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #59
68. ditto.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
60. Effie, you are a beautiful writier...
And we're very discerning and savvy and don't throw away our precious and hard-won votes on candidates just because they share our skin color.

Marion Barry disproves your point to an extent, no?? It certainly doesn't thoroughly disprove your point, but I think we have to accept that some black people do vote for someone because they share their skin. As it has become glaringly obvious in this election that some white people are doing the same.

While to many white Americans, Obama seems to be a very unusual black person - an anomaly - most black folk know plenty of men and women just like him - smart, highly-educated, accomplished, and, yes, articulate.

All I have to say to that is... PREACH girl!
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #60
84. Marion Barry does NOT disprove the point
Black voters supported Barry not because he was black (his opponents were, in fact, black), but because they felt that he truly fought for them as mayor, despite his personal problems.

Black voters did the same for Bill Clinton, as did many white voters, who were never accused of supporting Bill Clinton through his difficulties because he shared their skin color.

Thanks for the kind words!
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #84
187. Effie, I love your brain
And I love your logic and your well-reasoned posts, but to say that every black person who voted for Marion Barry in 1994 did it because they knew he would fight for them simply may not be true.

I would bet my favorite shoes that there were large numbers of blacks in D.C. who voted for Barry just because they were PISSED at the government's attempts to bring a black man down. And I'm not saying it's wrong or right, I'm just saying it is what it is. And to be honest, I think it's damn understandable in light of our country's history.

Black voters did the same for Bill Clinton, as did many white voters, who were never accused of supporting Bill Clinton through his difficulties because he shared their skin color.

No argument from me there. You're right on the money. I really wish you that you would consider posting more often. Is there any way that you can get one of those DU Journal deals???
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #187
189. I'm certainly not saying that EVERY person voted for this reason
We are all talking in generalities when we discuss various voting demographics - certainly, there are exceptions, but I am talking about how most people approached that race, according to all of the evidence.
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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
65. Kick for Sanity!
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 01:41 AM
Response to Original message
69. Thank you. Yours is a very valuable perspective. n/t
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ecdab Donating Member (834 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 04:29 AM
Response to Original message
70. K & R
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 05:34 AM
Response to Original message
72. Very nice post. Well done and recommended.
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livingmadness Donating Member (347 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 05:51 AM
Response to Original message
76. I wonder what would happen if Obama had a fundraiser
Edited on Thu May-08-08 06:42 AM by livingmadness
for 'Celebrating Generations of African Americans'?? Would that be an issue? Kind of like the 'Celebrating Generations of Women' fundraiser for Clinton tonight.

Great post Effie, loved it!
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npincus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 06:01 AM
Response to Original message
77. I htink the Clintons alienated black voters on their own
Edited on Thu May-08-08 06:01 AM by npincus
at the start of the race, I recall polling showing the black vote fairly divided. it wasn't until race entered the conversation, with a divisive Hillary CLinton remark (about how civil rights legislation came about b y Lyndon Johnson, not MLK), Bill Clinton cpmparing Obama to Jesse Jackson, and other slights, that the black voter moved to Obama en masse. I think the flight from the CLintons had more to do with thier actions, than some inevitable embrace of a black candidate. It should be remembered that way.

This is a very exciting moment in our history...

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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 06:16 AM
Response to Original message
80. Excellent! nt
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 06:16 AM
Response to Original message
81. I was please to see the diversity at my daughter's degree ceremony
she just received her Master's in Art Therapy from Drexel, where they also graduated the Doctoratal candidates for Physical Therapy. I was so pleased to see the bright, shiny young faces: every color of the rainbow. All articulate hard working young people (yes now I feel old, some were only in their mid-20s!!)

This is America.
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DemVet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
85. Oh, so Geraldine Ferraro was correct then.
Some people ARE voting for BO just because he's black. It's that simple.

Actually, I don't have a problem with black people voting for BO just because he's black. I think it's entirely a natural thing.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #85
89. You totally missed the point of my post
Edited on Thu May-08-08 07:03 AM by EffieBlack
And that's NOT what Ferraro said.

She didn't say that "some people" were voting for Obama because he was black. She said that Obama was "lucky" to be black because if he were a white man or a woman, he would not be doing as well. Which is pure bullshit.

It's very interesting that we were told for months that Obama COULDN'T win because he was black. And then, when he started winning, we're now being told that he's winning BECAUSE he's black.

Some people seem to have great difficulty accepting that a black man is beating white people on what they thought was THEIR turf, playing by THEIR rules, attracting what they thought were THEIR voters. It must be some hocus-pocus. It must be some unfair advantage that he has - an advantage that is unavailable to them (his blackness). Otherwise, how to explain that he is WINNING without admitting or even recognizing that he's just better at it than they are?

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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #89
93. Astounding how many times...
IGNORED responded to your OP and totally misunderstood it. ;)
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jonestonesusa Donating Member (630 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #85
118. Yes, the "lucky" remark was the worst of it,
Edited on Thu May-08-08 10:10 AM by jonestonesusa
being a conditional statement, not a statement of fact, and playing into the calculated campaign to de-legitimize Obama's candidacy, and put in motion a talking point that continues.

Also, Ferraro is a politician, not a political scientist. Why not look at exit polling or, god forbid, read a book or article about black political behavior if you want to understand better how cultural identity influences African American voting?

You can start with Dr. Melissa Harris-Lacewell at Princeton:

http://www.melissaharrislacewell.com/

After that, take a casual look at the Black Commentator:

http://www.blackcommentator.com/

There are provocative and interesting pieces on Obama at both sites, both for and against Obama.
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #85
172. Geraldine Ferraro hasn't been correct in 40 years
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
86. I doubt Colin Powell would garner 90% of African American votes
The African American population votes smart in every election cycle....with their interests. They know what side of the bread is buttered.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #86
91. Right.
Edited on Thu May-08-08 07:14 AM by EffieBlack
It's very interesting and very telling that 90% black support is just fine and dandy when that support is directed toward a white candidate, but is suddenly racist and ignorant when directed toward a black candidate.

I think much of it boils down to abject fear that blacks and other minorities are in a position to direct their political power in a way that could fundamentally change the white power structure. People aren't worried that Obama might not win because of his strong black support - they're worried that he WILL win with it. Talk about a "game-changer."
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rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #86
115. Neither would Condi Rice
I doubt she'd even win African American women.
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Connonym Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 06:48 AM
Response to Original message
87. If "America isn't ready for a black president."
then I'm ready to turn in my passport and change my nationality. If I really believed that the vast majority of Americans were that ass backwards I'd be too ashamed to call myself an American. I believe we're better than that. I believe most of us are willing to let go of ridiculous prejudices about race and gender. Sure there are always going to be neanderthals who won't get it but I refuse to believe that anything even close to the majority of us feels that way. And omg I'm from Iowa where everyone is white and a bigot (which is a bullshit stereotype).

We're absolutely ready for a Black or Hispanic or Female or whatever president. I think maybe we're still a little bit too close to 911 to be ready for a Muslim president but eventually we'll be there too.

Maybe I'm living in a dream world but I feel like anyone who claims that "we're not ready" is selling short the intelligence of the nation at large.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #87
90. I agree
And the fact that so many people of all races are voting for Obama show that the "America's not ready" argument is falling apart.
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Revlon10 Donating Member (139 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #87
102. If "America isn't ready for a black president."
Thank you, you said it best, thats exactly how I feel, if the majority of Americans are not ready, than I need to live somewhere else till we are, Americans are not stupid, people who vote for Obama are proof, I am on DU all day any time a get a break I'm on, ( it's my crack), I don't post much just read. and I love reading what you guys post and respond. it gives me faith. it's a good balance against the TV news, most are smart and can see through the BS of the TV news. I believe that Americans are ready for the Best President that can lift up our once great country, and it should not matter what his or her race is nor religion, sex , or pins that they wear.
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
88. Wonderful post Effie
Perceptive and true.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 07:13 AM
Response to Original message
95. Personally I wouldn't blame any African American for voting for Obama just because he's black
Injustce has ruled for too long in this country, it's your time. Embrace it and applaud it.
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petepillow Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #95
98. Well put.
Besides, even if he wasn't black, he's one of the most effective advocators of racial healing America's had in God knows how long. It's win-win.
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
96. What I can't figure out is why Obama is labeled as black..
I mean, I know where all the old stereotyping comes from, etc.
But, I also have lived in Hawaii.
And San Francisco,

My term would be multi-racial.
bi-racial?
'Course, it up to him to identify what he wants to be called.
( Hopefully, Mr. President, soon)

The guy could be a Martian for all I care..he's smart, articulate, has a ton of charisma, a much broader perspective than most of the "either-or" politicians in our history.

We do have a quaint American custom of trying to put folks in neatly
labeled boxes.

I have very close women friends who shoot me the death ray glare because I won't support Hillary...they think I am being a traitor to my gender and to our '70's history.

Been there, done that, moving on, life's too short. let's get some humanity going here.

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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #96
99. Of course you're right.
I refer to Obama in the way most of our society unfortunately sees him. I wager about half the electorate probably don't even know he's multi-racial. Hell, everyone is multi-cultured in this country. There shouldn't be any disparagement of people of color at all anymore, but in many ways we're(homo sapiens)still a savage and stupid species and things different from our clique still scare us.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #96
100. In this America, for all intents and purposes, he's black
Don't look at me - I didn't make the rules.

Interestingly, most black Americans are bi- or multi-racial. Very, very, very few of us are pure black - we are full of white blood. But that was never enough for us to go around calling ourselves "white" or "bi-racial." If we had a drop of black blood, we were black. Period.

My grandmother was as white-looking as she could be - the result of more than one slave master in her heritage. Didn't matter. She was black (or "colored") and, as such, subjected to all of the inferior treatment accorded to black people, despite her advanced education and intellect.

In fact, Barack Obama probably has more black blood than most African Americans, given that he is one-half African, something that most black Americans cannot claim. Our African blood has been so diluted and intermingled with other races that it really is hard for us to tell what our actual racial background is. But it never mattered before because in THIS America, we have black blood and brown skin, so we are black, no questions asked.

So I find it amusing when some of the very people who are responsible for the continuation of the racial divide and are the most eager to classify, identify and define us by our "blackness" (you are NOT in this category, by the way) are now insisting, "Obama's not REALLY black, you know. He's BI-RACIAL." I call bullshit on them and tell them, "Not so fast, buddy. YOU made the rules. And according to YOUR rules, Obama is a black man - not 'bi-racial,' not 'multi-racial,' not 'post-racial,' not 'half-white' - black. So now that it looks like he could reach heights you never thought one of us would reach, don't go all multi-cultural on us and try to pretend that he's not REALLY black. By YOUR rules, that's exactly what he is."
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liberalcanuck Donating Member (339 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #100
110. I agreed with you on all your posts up until the very last paragraph.
You're amused by those who "classify, identify and define" and then in the next sentence do the same thing by categorizing "them". And can you give me an example of someone who has defined or categorized black people and then later on claimed Obama is bi-racial?

Just sayin...
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #100
149. Well, by MY 'rules,' he can call himself whatever he wants.
If there's one thing I've learned, it's that it's NOT up to me to impose ANY 'identity' on anther person. Part of basic RESPECT for another human being is in such a basic thing as "identity." It's my duty, as a human being, to wish for every other human being what I'd wish for myself ... and that's to be as perfect a "me" as I can be. We are each unique and possessed of inalienable INDIVIDUAL rights and liberties. The toxicity of racism and sexism and other -isms is the assignation of some group boundary around such rights and liberties. It's reprehensible.

Here's wishing and supporting YOUR right to be the most perfect 'YOU' that you can find, God willing. :toast:


In another thread the movie "Guess Who's Coming To Dinner" was referenced. I quoted what I felt was, by far, the most poignant line in that movie: "You think of yourself as a black man. I think of myself as a man." No matter how many times I watch, I still get the tears and goosebumps at that point I got when I first saw it - the most emblematic idea in the phase change of that time. The freedom to see ourselves as we see fit - ALL of us.

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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #100
206. The way I see it
Obama is as black as other black Americans, or

other black Americans are as multi racial as Obama.

According to the "rules" there's no difference.
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jakem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
97. besides, Boo Boo the Fool has had his 8 years. enough.
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
101. not neolithic-some vote on colour
just like uneducated whites trend toward clinton and some of them surely do that based on colour
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1trackmindGOP Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #101
108. Correct..Education is the cure to bias
I think we all know that both sides have under educated votes that do vote along race lines...I think the person posting was speaking about the view point of the educated and culturally rich voters view points. One thing I love about Obama is his emphasis on investing heavily in education...that investment will return great dividends in removing racism and biased views in both communities.
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grrr050 Donating Member (86 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
103. Your explanation is.........
Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #103
127. .
:rofl:

Your prose is eloquent.
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1trackmindGOP Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
104. I love the post...very well stated
And as a white man, I agree with your assessment on our side, Most of us do not mind voting for a qualified black man...our primary concern is making sure the candidate is not race biased or agenda oriented (President for all people....not just black people). I think Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson come to mind when whites think on politicians...they are viewed as agenda oriented and divisive...perhaps they have been useful for the black community, however, they invoke distrust in our community and would never vote someone like them into office. I think that is about as truthful as it gets...for the record...I am a strong supporter of Obama, I judge him by his character and like the man I see...some of my race are much more reluctant than myself in judging him without color bias, some can't be won over...I see that as mostly the old generation and that mentality is dying out with their generation, the new generations coming up offer much more promise of race and gender neutrality and I am very proud of our progress. By the way "Yes we can"

Peace
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GardeningGal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
106. I'm not -
black, but I'm voting Obama.
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guidod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
109. You nailed it!! K&R
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lakeguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
111. african americans tend to vote 90%
democratic. i don't see why it's an issue.

oh yeah, the corporate media says it's an issue. and the clintons.
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
112. K&R.
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katerinasmommy Donating Member (189 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
113. Wellll.....
I'm a fanatic white Obama supporter, but, I DO think some Blacks vote for him just because he's black just as some Hillary supporters vote for her because she's white or because she's a woman. It's silly to pretend that's not happening. Black folk are no wiser or unwise than white folk. What I love about Barack Obama is that he seems to GET THAT. I have a theory of life that applies to any group of humans on the face of the earth that you can name, and I admit I stole it from Steven King to a degree.

Ten percent of any group are saints
Ten percent are assholes
the other eighty percent are just regular folks like you and me that are sometimes clueless
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
116. Blacks aren't voting for Obama, or against Hillary, out of fear and hatred...
while there are many whites who have, or will, vote against him, and for Hillary, for those reasons.

Hillary isn't the victim of "reverse racism", she's lost the black vote because she rejected them in favor of an appeal to the thinly veiled "white working class", "blue collar workers", code words that Blacks are all too familiar with having endured Nixon, Reagan, and the rest of the "respectable" racists that don't say "nigger".

The Clintons' posturing as "friends" of the Africa American community, that they have done much to "help" them, is reminiscent to the patronizing and paternalistic role of the "good master" during slavery.

After 300 years of oppression black people have developed a fine ear for racism disguised as "traditional American values" or, "helping the middle class", or "Blue collar workers", or "real Americans".

Blacks aren't looking for a "good master" to help them, they're voting for someone to represent them.

K&R for a great post.


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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #116
143. it's a shame cuz during his terms clinton was a friend to black people seemingly
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
119. k&r
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Politicalboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
120. But whites like Hillary better
http://www.jabberwonk.com/flinker.cfm?cliid=14wqiu

This going too far. She should drop out now.
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
122. i disagree with your view that somehow the Black voters are somehow magically
able to look thru colorless lenses and the white folk see him as a black man first, man second.

you just called white people racist.


Look, here is the deal...

These two people have essentially all the same ideas and proposals. Virtually identical.

So we are essentially left with positives for each candidate...

1. Clinton has a legacy, a grit and pragmatism that many people loved and want back.

2. Obama has a youth, energy and optimism that many people love.


and guess what? the white vote is essentially split right down the middle... suggesting that half the white vote likes option one above, and the other half is attracted to #2... perfectly understandable, and expected really.


The black vote on the other hand is NOT split. 92% vote for Obama! There is CLEARLY a racial component. It it racism? maybe. Is it identity politics? more likely... Obama reflects an idealized version of themselves. But make no mistake, it is BECAUSE he is black.


It would be a different story if Obama was clearly head and shoulders better than Clinton... but he is not. They are virtually the same.

anyway, that is my .02


flame away, call me a racist, whatever you like... i dont even care anymore.

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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #122
136. I don't know you well enough to call you a racist, but I do know you blatantly mischaracterized
my comments, for example, by claiming that I called white people racist, which I specifically said I WAS NOT doing.

But given how disconnected so many of your other comments were to the points I made, perhaps you just failed to understand what I was saying.

It happens.
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muryan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #122
151. Your definition of racism is very strange
If white people notice Obama as a black man first and a man second, thats not racism. If they think they are better than him because they are white, it is racism.
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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #122
161. Identical except for the IWR vote.
For me, that places him head and shoulders above HRC.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #161
167. you DO know that he didn't vote on the IWR
Don't you?

He wasn't in the Senate then.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #122
177. Huh?
The black vote on the other hand is NOT split. 92% vote for Obama! There is CLEARLY a racial component. It it racism? maybe. Is it identity politics? more likely... Obama reflects an idealized version of themselves. But make no mistake, it is BECAUSE he is black.

You really feel qualified telling a black person why black people are doing something?? And as for your "Obama represents an idealized version" of black people... I'm going to try very hard to let that slide....
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
124. This is one of the best posts about 'race' I've ever seen at DU
Thank you Effie.

I had one thing, anecdotal, to add. I was talking to my closest co-worker yesterday, who is a black man about my age (I'm 48). I asked him, for the first time, who he was supporting for President. He tends to like Republicans sometimes as much as he likes Democrats, and for him, likability is very important. He really liked Huckabee because he's from the south himself, though he acknowledged that Huckabee was essentially a nut.

Anyway, your points about people learning to understand candidates when they aren't familiar with them may apply *somewhat* between Obama and US blacks as a whole; my co-worker said that for a lot of people he knew (and I assume this meant other blacks), Obama at first wasn't "black enough" because of his unusual background--growing up in Hawaii, and not having the long US ancestry (on the black side of the family) that nearly all black Americans have (i.e., he's only second-generation 'black'). Some people may have wondered if he'd had the same kind of life experiences with *being* black that they had had. And yet I think it's clear from what you've written that people have gotten past that, after hearing him.

He told me something else that I had never heard: that Obama's being a member of Pastor Wright's church was essentially a requirement for political success in Chicago. He said it's one of two big congregations in Chicago that basically provide black politicians (and other famous people, such as Oprah Winfrey) a kind of community base that is an absolute requirement as a launching pad for a public or political career. What this signifies, if anything, I don't know, but I found it interesting--not something that's ever been said in the MSM.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
126. Sure there's some other reason that 90% of black people are voting Obama.
we just haven't figured out what it is yet.
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #126
134. magic glasses that white folk dont have apparently...
Edited on Thu May-08-08 11:31 AM by Texas Hill Country
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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #126
159. Have you figured
why 90% of the black vote went to Kerry, Gore and Clinton?
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #159
175. Nobody black on the ballot?
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #175
186. If that was the case
... then why was Sharpton such an IMMEDIATE wash-up in the 2004 election?
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #175
191. That is true . . . but let's compare apples with apples
In the 2004 primary, there were two blacks on the ballot. Still, 80% of black voters voted for the white candidates who were running.

In 2000, there was a black candidate in the Republican primary. His support among blacks was so small it was almost imperceptible.

In 1992, there was a black candidate in the Democratic primary. He got very little black support.

Obviously, black voters do not have a history of voting in large numbers for black candidates. So why are people assuming that the fact that Obama is getting a large percentage of the black vote means that blacks are voting for him because he's black, something they have not demonstrated a propensity to do in the past.
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DWilliamsamh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #126
188. I will only speak for myself.....
I am a black man over forty who wanted Edwards to be the nominee VERY badly. I was totally disappointed when he dropped out at what I thought was an almost obscenely early juncture. That left me with an open mind toward the remaining candidates and if anything I leaned toward HRC, if for no other reason than her association with the big dog, and her obvious strength in the face of adversity.

But three things happened:

1) Obama started talking and that interested me enough to go find out who he was and what he had done. I was very impressed with his accomplishments and thinking.

2) Hillary ran started rambling on about all her past experience in the White House. Somehow her husband's accomplishments and record qualified her for the Presidency. In my mind it was akin to hearing Robin Givens' say she was qualified to be heavy weight champion of the world because of how tough Mike Tyson had been when he was the champ. It just didn't wash. And then I looked into her senate record (her only legislative record). Ugghhh....

3) Hillary and her campaign surrogates started an all out appeal to all the code worded "blue collar workers," and marginalizing Obama as basically just another black guy who speaks well. And last but not least having the temerity to actively talk about him being "lucky" to be black because it was the only reason he was doing so well... that was a flat out appeal to the "reverse racism" crowd. She lost me.

In short Hillary is losing because of Hillary. My vote was hers to lose, and she did. MOST other black people I know feel the same way. Not all. So to me the OP was dead on target.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
128. Brilliantly put! And let's not forget that Clinton had the majority of AA votes early on.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #128
133. That's Because They Hadn't Yet Realized Obama's True Viability.
As soon as it became clear that he was viable and a phenom, they ran to him in droves. That had nothing to do with what Hillary did or didn't do. It had to do with them finally having someone to get really excited about, and then following suit with their support. It really is that cut and dried, and I find the most laughable assertion on here that Hillary 'lost' the black vote because she did this or did that. It's ludicrous.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #133
135. Unless you have numbers to back that up, it's speculation
and nothing more.

I think it's much more likely that some based their switch on his viability, some on the actions of those connected to her campaign, and others on who knows what.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #135
137. It's All Speculation From All Of Us. DUH.
But some of our speculations have far more a foundation of intellect and objectivity than others. My point stands.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #137
139. Your point stands? Cause you have more intellect and objectivity?
Yeah, you really told me.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #139
145. Congratulations On Finally Getting Something Right.
:toast:
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #133
174. But that describes me, and I'm white

I supported Biden, but I assumed Hillary would get the nomination until the first time I sat and listened to Barack Obama.

Call it "just words" if you want, but Ronald Reagan didn't win on his ability to spell out a clear program for anything.

The president doesn't sit alone all day making the country's decisions. If there is one thing that the president can and should do, it is to inspire.

As the general goes on, even those people who now think "I wouldn't vote for an African American" are going to have to see McCrazy and Obama on a pretty regular basis - and their spouses.

I want to see the "family values" crowd, and the "regular guy like me crowd" just try to get behind John and Cruella McCain.

Obama's got "the vision thing", and I'm not prepared to believe that the majority of this country has racial blinders so opaque that it's not going to be clear - even to a lot of folks who, today, would say "America's not ready."



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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
129. Wonderful post. Just wonderful. K and r
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
131. Sounds Good. I Mean, It Has No Real Bearing In Reality, But It Sounds Good.
Nice try and all, but it's a bit laughable in premise. Basically, you're saying that if white people didn't have aversions to other races and were able to be 100% objective in their assessment of Obama, they'd be voting for him by over a 90% margin.

Sorry, but that's insane.
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JDwho Donating Member (339 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
132. Love the context and maturity of this post, Effie.
Personally, I live in an area that is predominantly African American. As an American Indian/Caucasian, I am not one of those who have little contact with the black community. I feel you have spoken for those I know and hold dear with style and a level of reason I haven't seen here on DU to often, lately. Thank You.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
138. Exactly...
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chemenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
140. Because black people are smarter than white people!
(by the way, I'm white so you can't accuse me of flamebaiting. :P Nyah, Nyah, Nyah, Nyah, Nyaaaaah, Nyah!)
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
147. Effie, your race analyses are always right on target.
Edited on Thu May-08-08 12:02 PM by intheflow
As a white woman who's been working very hard for ten years to fully understand and transcend my own white privilege, I'm dismayed by how surprised I continue to be by common sense statements like "far from being biased toward him because he is black, black voters are not biased against him because he is black."

I also loved the Boo Boo the Fool statement. I work for an overwhelmingly black organization, of the three black people who run this place, one has a Masters and two have Ph.D.s. In fact, 80% of the people I interact with on a regular basis all over the country in this job are highly educated black people; I may know more blacks with advanced degrees than whites at this point. I makes my head hurt when I hear white people marvel at Obama's intelligence. Unfortunately, that demographic includes my parents and in-laws. :(

Thanks for another thoughtful post. :patriot:

*Edited b/c my typing is atrocious.
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DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
148. Hey, "America Isn't Ready": READY OR NOT, HERE WE COME.
"America isn't ready for a black president" - my ass.
"America isn't ready for a woman president" - my ass.

Etc.

:kick::kick:
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casus belli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
150. Great post, as usual Effie :)
Thanks for the fresh perspective. You made some points I hadn't considered before.
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ItNerd4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
152. This post leaves me completely baffled. 75% of it makes no sense to me.
1) You state that "white Democratic presidential candidates have gotten 99% of the white primary vote where black candidates were also running".
When Jesse Jackson ran, I can understand this. But this has no basis in fact for Obama. When Obama got elected in Illinois, he had a nice percentage of whites voting for him.

2) You state that "On the other hand, white voters are viewing Obama less objectively and are setting up various "hurdles" of acceptability that he must clear before they will feel comfortable trusting him with their vote - hurdles that they do not set up for white candidates. This is not necessarily racist or bigoted or even wrong. It is simply that white voters are not as familiar with blacks and, in many cases, aren't sure about Obama, since they may not have been exposed to many African American politicians in this context. The fact that Obama's support among whites is growing, not lessening, shows that the more white voters learn about him, the more comfortable they become with him and the more likely they are to vote for him. That is the very essence of social growth.".
Please, this is for some white people. Many of us who are Democrats are way beyond this and don't care about race, color, or sex. I do agree society is growing.

3) You state "So, while the black support for Obama has a racial context, it is not racist. Black voters are not voting for him because he is black. We are just better able, because of our own experiences, to look at him objectively DESPITE his race.".
This to me is just downright insulting to Hillary supporters (I support Obama) you're saying they aren't objective.

4) You state "One of the beauties of this primary season is that voters are being exposed to something new and are demonstrating that they are indeed ready to consider an African American (and a woman) with an open mind. The fact that it may take some longer than others to get to that point is not a problem - people learn and reach their comfort levels at different paces.

This is why I resisted so strongly when people insisted that "America isn't ready for a black president." I know that people aren't ready until they get ready. And they get ready by learning and growing through interaction, contact and exposure. This campaign has enabled the voters to do that and, for that reason, it has been a beautiful thing to see."

I agree with "4)" completely.

My perspective: I have seen many black candidates in local elections (Chicago) get 90% of the black vote where the white candidate only gets 60% of the white vote (similar to current presidential election). I always attributed black support for the black candidate as a support for the suffrage blacks have had to endure and I would say that some white votes were racist in nature. But it sounds like you said that the only reason whites aren't voting for him his because they can't look at him objectively. This I completely disagree with.

Would love to spend more time discussing, but have to get back to work. Look forward to other peoples comments.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #152
153. Perhaps most of it is not making sense to you because you didn't read it properly
For example:

1) You state that "white Democratic presidential candidates have gotten 99% of the white primary vote where black candidates were also running".
When Jesse Jackson ran, I can understand this. But this has no basis in fact for Obama. When Obama got elected in Illinois, he had a nice percentage of whites voting for him.


I specifically referred to "white Democratic presidential candidates" running in primaries. Obama's election to the Senate is irrelevant to this discussion.

3) You state "So, while the black support for Obama has a racial context, it is not racist. Black voters are not voting for him because he is black. We are just better able, because of our own experiences, to look at him objectively DESPITE his race.".
This to me is just downright insulting to Hillary supporters (I support Obama) you're saying they aren't objective.


I'm sorry if this insults you, but it should not. But if you don't believe that black voters are generally better able, because of their experience, to be objective about a black candidate, then we just disagree. But the fact that many white voters may be less objective about black candidates (which is demonstrated consistently, even through today - and seems to be the basis for much of Hillary Clinton's argument for staying in the race) does not mean that all white voters who support Hillary are being unfair or are basing their decision on race or being racist as you seem to suggest that I said. You're reading way too much into my observation.

My post does not address state and local races. I only spoke about presidential races. I believe that voters of all races are much more objective about local and state races because they are more familiar with the candidates running - they are closer to them, spend more time with them, etc. The higher up you go, however, the more difficult it is for black candidates to get enough white support to win elections - this is one of the primary reasons that we have had so few elected black governors (2) and elected black senators (3) in our history.

But I definitely agree that we're seeing lots of growth and that's a good thing.

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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #152
168. Regarding Jesse Jackson and the White Vote
Edited on Thu May-08-08 03:51 PM by Crisco
Stats here:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DEFD9173AF930A25755C0A96E948260

Mr. Jackson won about 2.1 million white votes this year, compared with 650,000 in 1984. In 1988, Mr. Jackson got 12 percent of the white votes cast; in 1984, he took 5 percent of the white vote.

The 1988 study did not include Oregon, where there were no exit polls. Mr. Jackson is generally reckoned to have won 35 percent of the white vote in Oregon; if these votes are added, his overall share of the white vote in the primaries rises to about 12.5 percent.


We know Shirley Chisholm took NJ in her 1970s campaign, she couldn't have done that without white voters in addition to the black voters.

Can't find any polls for Carol Moseley Braun, and whatever Sharpton's problems were with white voters, he was the cause of that by jumping onto the wrong case to make a national name for himself.
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ItNerd4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #168
170. Thanks for the info
Didn't remember the exact percentages, knew they weren't high.
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Dystopian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
154. I love this post! : ) k&r
>Black voters are looking at him objectively, color-blindly - the way that it is assumed that white voters view white candidates.<

This is something so obvious that I never gave it a thought. My first choice was Dennis, then John, and now Barack. Nothing to do with color. I would never vote for a woman just because I'm one, (middle-age, also) and she was always too far to the right for me. Her true colors came through quickly, and I looked to Barack....my candidate.

We all know that Clinton was getting most of the Black vote in the beginning. I don't understand why, though.

Thank you for an awesome post....very insightful.
Recommended.

peace~

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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #154
157. Maybe some blacks supported Clinton
over Obama because they were afraid to hope.

Personally, I supported Kucinich then Edwards. I didn't give Obama a second thought as I didn't want to take a chance with a wasted vote.
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delt664 Donating Member (139 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
155. Well done.
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Kitty Herder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
156. This is a wonderful post!!
:applause: :yourock:
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
158. Thanks Effie...for your excellent comments.
I agree with most everything you said. And I would add, that it is a sign of progress when a black man can get enough white unbiased votes to make him the nominee of the Democratic Party. I wonder where he would be if he ran as a Republican??

I think it is a great step forward for our country. But I suspect the Republicans will use his 2 years in the Senate as a lack of experience that makes him unqualified to be President of the free world? How should he respond to that charge, in your opinion?
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #158
165. Cheney and Rumsfeld had the best resumes in Washington - you think they did a better job?
Edited on Thu May-08-08 03:41 PM by TBF
We could probably add a bunch of others as well.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #158
169. It would have been progress for a woman, too
Please be sensitive. Women (more than half of the population of this country) got the right to vote fifty years AFTER AA men (approx 6% of the U.S. population) did.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #169
176. To be historically accurate
Black men's right to vote was supposedly guaranteed by the 15th Amendment in 1865, but we all know that, for most black men, this was an empty promise. It took 100 years and the Voting Rights Act for blacks to ACTUALLY have the right to vote - since a right without a remedy is a joke.

And let's not forget also that while supposedly the right of all women to vote waas protected with the 19th Amendment in 1920, only white women actually benefitted from it at the time. As soon as the Amendment was passed, white women could vote - no additional federal Act of Congress was required to enforce their right. Black women, on the other hand, were still just as disenfranchised as their men for an additional 45 years.

And, sadly, many white women were complicit in the perpetuation of the disenfranchisement and other oppression of black women (some tacitly, others actively and sometimes forcefully) and the women's movement vigorously opposed attempts to include the liberation of black women in their cause.

So, while you're calling for sensitivity, please also be mindful of this sorry history - regardless of the size of the population of those who were so viciously oppressed.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
162. I like this post.
I'm white, but I like to think my relationships with black folks have gone a bit deeper than watching "Cops." AAMOF, I won't watch Cops for reasons I'm sure you'd understand.

I feel like I'm doing Colbert's "color-blind" routine, but when I see Barack, I know I'm looking at one smart and talented dude. My caveat is: he's a politician. But there are some I really like. :) And so far, he's one of them.

Thanks for your post and your perspective.

--IMM
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #162
178. You don't see color . . .
:-)

Thanks.
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NYDem Observer Donating Member (313 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
163. As a black man, couldn't of said it better myself
Edited on Thu May-08-08 03:24 PM by NYDem Observer
Excellent post.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
164. A very intelligent and well thought out post.
Thank you for this perspective, and a very well written OP!

K&R
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tpsbmam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
166. K&R. VERY well said! n/t
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georgecolombo Donating Member (86 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
171. Terrific Post
First rate writing and reasoning.
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
173. It would be the same with a gay candidate
Gay people usually don't let sexual orientation get in the way. After all, we were raised by and with heterosexuals, so we know all about them. We aren't necessarily frightened of them. Some of us may even have thought we were, or pretended to be, straight.

It's straight people who have a problem with gay people.

If a gay or lesbian were running for office, I would judge them the same way I judge all candidates -- with the exception that, in the absence of any overriding differentiating factor, I would vote for the gay person because I think it would be someone who understands my needs and would better represent my interests. That's pretty much why we hold elections. I wouldn't automatically vote for someone just because they were gay, nor would I vote against someone just because they were straight. However, there are straight people who would vote against someone based solely on sexual orientation, just as some whites would vote against a black based on race.

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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
179. Carl Bernstein 15 years ago: Black Americans know how much the vote counts.
I will never forget hearing Carl Bernstein at the Detroit Economic Club about 15 (maybe 20) years ago. He eloquently explained just how much black Americans know how precious their vote is. It has, throughout their history, either been denied them, or saved them.

I have never forgotten that speech. This might be post of the year so far.

Enthusiastically recommended by this white guy whose grandparents came over on the boat from Scandinavia, and who - as they did - accepts American history as my history.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
180. African Americans are voting for Obama because they have a soft spot for Hawaiians.
I hope that brought a smile to you Effie because I was trying to illustrate your point which you have so effectively laid out.

Most African Americans have to live in a dual country with one foot in a country that is culturally dominated by Anglo culture and one that is dominated by Black culture. Most whites don't

That requires African Americans to become bi-lingual so to say in both cultures and that is why Blacks

quote

much more likely to view him with an open mind and not through all manner of color prisms

unquote

Whites think that there is a Black community. Yeah right. There are Blacks whose families came through slavery in the south and Blacks who have come from northern communities. There are Blacks whose families have migrated from Caribean countries. There are Blacks from Haiti and those from D Republic same island completely different experiences.

Blacks get that color vision as part of the survival skill of being culturally bilingual, just like a child with two parents who speaks different languages is bilingual.


So they saw Obama from the start as kind of an oddity. But they also saw that even if he was from Hawaii, even if he went to Columbia and even if he went to Yale Law School he earned a good hard listen. The reason I believe that Blacks were so willing to be convinced by this guy who seemed kinda white and was raised by whites in a white community? Because of Michelle.

He didn't do a Tiger Woods (and I love Tiger and am not critical) but he had choices and he made a great choice. If I have to explain it in any more detail than that then you aren't going to get it anyway.

Do you agree Effie?
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #180
181. Eyup
Edited on Thu May-08-08 06:15 PM by EffieBlack
I believe that just seeing Michele spoke volumes to many black women and told us much about him.

This may be difficult for others to understand, but black women are so used to being dismissed, marginalized, treated as less desirable than white women, that this meant a lot. We consistently get the message that the ultimate prize is a white woman and that our own beauty is second-rate.

For example, a couple of years ago, Parade Magazine actually ran the following in its Personality Parade section:

Q. Why does Tiger Woods seem to date only tall, leggy blondes?
A. Because he can.


In other words, millions of black women reading the Sunday paper were told by a major national publication: why WOULDN'T Tiger Woods run around with white blond women if he has the chance? Talk about a slap in the face. And this is not an isolated occurrence - we are daily confronted with these images and attitudes that seek to diminish our own beauty and worth in this society.

So, it was nice to see that when Barack Obama made his choice about whom hewanted to share his life with, he chose a woman who looked like us, our mothers, our sisters and our daughters.

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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #181
182. Aloha and thank you for the OP

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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #180
195. Amen
The reason I believe that Blacks were so willing to be convinced by this guy who seemed kinda white and was raised by whites in a white community? Because of Michelle.

As a hyper-educated black woman myself, like Michelle Obama and like I'm starting to think Ms. Effie may be as well, I could not agree more.

The minute that gorgeous, brown, brilliant sister came on the screen, MILLIONS of black women (and black men too) did what Terri McMillan wrote about 20 years ago. They EXHALED....
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #195
198. That is the TRUTH!
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Political Tiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
183. A VERY IMPRESSIVE POST!
Bravo!!!!
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
185. Effie, u rock! K&R
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
192. Thanks for this.
Recommended.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
194. K&R n/t
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
197. Enthusiastic K&R.
Great writing, too.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #197
200. Thanks, my friend!
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
204. Um..one time they did... (Boo-Boo the fool)


Where's your nose, Georgie?

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