a lesson for Obama supporters

[wrando]

BO began his run trying to distance his candidacy from race. Now Hillary makes a statement of fact as Bill Clinton did after NC and you are listening to some in the msm scream racism.

make no mistake, this kind of talk coming from the msm and his supporters has done more to make BO the black candidate than anything the Clintons could possibly say

many white people who were looking beyond race are now saying "wait a minute, they're talking about me"

http://dailyhowler.com/

bill from ct

[AllentownJake]

1. It's called a dog whistle

and Bill Clinton and Hillary know what they are doing.

[BlooInBloo]

54. And OP knows it. It's just support of dogwhistle racism.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

84. and the GOP are loving it

[DerekJ]

2. If you've a problem supporting the "Black" candidate, get off the DP.

[wrando]

12. are you someone I should listen to?

if so why?

did I remark on my feelings about a black candidate?

do you even have any black friends?

bill from ct

[NashVegas]

14. There Are No Racists In Canada

Never have been.

[Lerkfish]

52. are you?

I have black friends.

[cliffordu]

69. DING DING DING We have a winner!!! That's right.

[VotesForWomen]

72. i have no problem supporting *a* black candidate; i do have a problem supporting *the* black candida

candidate; i.e. a candidate who only represents the interests of AA's. if O want to win in a multi-cultural country, he's going to have to be the *american* candidate.

[merh]

76. he is the *american* candidate

it has been hillary's campaign and the MSM that have focused on his race, not Obama.

[NOLALady]

77. What are the interests of AA's?

How are they different from the interests of other Americans?:shrug:

[shadowknows69]

85. I suspected as much, you're afraid Obama might actually give blacks equal rights

Unlike the comfortable illusion that has gone on since sanctioned slavery ended.

[Political Heretic]

3. Many statements of fact can still be racially motivated or race baiting.

Bill Clinton had to overlook the most obvious and contemporary example of a candidate who won SC and didn't win the nomination in order to give the black one as an example - John Edwards.

Still, I partially agree with you about the msm.

[MonkeyFunk]

6. But Jesse Jackson won it twice

and wasn't born there, like John Edwards was. Jackson was the better comparison.

And since there are two possible comparisons that you think are equal, wouldn't purposely picking the white one also have a racial component? Why should he HAVE to pick the white one?

[nell2323]

8. Jesse Jackson was born in SC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Jackson

[hokies4ever]

40. BOOYAH!

Way to nail her ass on that one! :rofl:

[cali]

9. bzzzt. wrong. Jackson was born there

and Bill dear was simply trying to frame Obama as a fringe minority candidate. And Bill himself won there twice. I'm sure you'll find another excuse as to why Jackson was the better comparison. NOT.

[Doityourself]

19. Wrong. Jackson was born in SC...

[MonkeyFunk]

91. You're absolutely right

my mistake. For some reason I thought he was born in Georgia. Don't know why.

Anyway, it doesn't detract greatly from my point. Why would Edwards be a better example to use than Jackson? And why should he specifically choose the white guy?

[hokies4ever]

42. LOL monkeyfunk

You just called out for your pro-Hillary stupidity. Sorry that you had to be embarrassed in such a public forum. :rofl:

[MonkeyFunk]

92. No, I'm not embarrassed

I made an error, admitted it, and the error doesn't detract from the actual point I was making.

Why don't you guys respond to my point? Why should clinton have used Edwards as an example? Why is it a BETTER example? Just cuz he's white? Explain how that decision doesn't rely on race.

[TahitiNut]

53. Wow.

A veritable layer cake of ignorance and falsehoods. Pitiful.

[rodeodance]

58. only in small-minded brains infected with hate.

[emilyg]

65. Plenty of those around.

[VotesForWomen]

73. that's very true. you have to look at context and history, and i think it's disgraceful how quickly

so many O supporters have turned on the clintons, who have a pretty darn good history on racial issues, and accused them of being racists or race-baiters. it's embarrassing, and it will be the end of Obama in the GE.

[Raineyb]

83. Actually, it's not the first time the Clintons have done this

The Sista Souljah incident comes to mind. And Bill Clinton had no problem executing a black man to show his "tough on crime" cred. Tough on crime of course tends to be code for "tough on those criminals" by which they mean black and brown criminals.

This isn't a matter of turning so quickly on the Clintons it's more a matter of that straw that broke the camel's back.

Regards

[Skidmore]

4. bill, I spent all of my life trying to do right by my fellows of all colors.

It is impossible to turn a blind eye to this type of politicking and call it for the base and craven filth it is. The party the Clintons are portraying us as is not a party I recognize. We do NOT insult our brothers and sisters or make it permissible for those who would harm them or insult them or take rights away to operate with impunity. I stand for civil rights and I hope that, as a fellow Democrat, you do to. Not actively engaging in racism does not make it alright to use the racist tendencies of others for gain as individuals or in the context of a political party or contest. The day when the majority of Dems stand up and embrace this filth is the day I leave the party.

[wrando]

15. respectfully

How many times in the course of this campaign, for that matter in the course of a day have the cable shows CNN, etc. informed us of these demographic patterns?

she was quoting the AP not freerepublic, that's where you should direct your anger.

bill from ct

[Hepburn]

30. How many times has the media stated....

..."hard working white Americans" as opposed to what? Lazy black Americans? What exactly did you think Hillary was saying in comparison? Notice the HARD WORKING was applied ONLY to whites and NOT blacks. The media did not spin one dang thing ~~ Hillary was quoted exactly as she spewed out this crap. They were quoting HER ~~ she was NOT quoting them.

IMO what Hillary said is probably the ugliest example of racism since George Wallance ran and opened his ugly bigotted yap. I will say this for Wallace, however: At least he was up front about where he stood and did not try to make himself out to be something other than the racist POS that he was.

JMHO

[wrando]

44. context

she IS talking about the demographics of white voters

she can hardly make a case that she's getting the black vote when 90+% are for Obama

a racial fact that isn't worthy of debate

bill from ct

[Hepburn]

82. Since when is "hard working" a demographic?

:eyes:

[dcindian]

5. Hillary pokes America in the eye America blinks and you blame them for blinking.

Classic right wing politics. Rush makes a living claiming reverse racism.

[wrando]

17. hard road

you people are in for a hard road if you are going to be this thin skinned

racism exists, just not under every rock

bill from ct

[dcindian]

26. LOL ya now its under every rock.

No sorry it is your candidate that in her utter defeat uttered the pathetic words of racial divide in order to win a few more votes. She has a reason for what she said and any reason for saying that must be construed as intent.

Perhaps you would like to explain what she intended to accomplish with her statement?

[wrando]

41. her motives for speaking the truth?

I'm not a mind reader, but I think she was making her case for electability

bill from ct

[Catherina]

68. What is that truth? That Whites work hard while the rest of us sit on our porches

eating watermelon and plucking banjos all day?

Even if you fail, to my immense sadness, to take offense at the racism in her statement, you can't ignore this fact:

Obama's relationship with white voters is no where near as bad as Clinton's deteriorating relationship with black voters. But Clinton wants to make this conversation exclusively about the working class white vote, because it hides her glaring weaknesses among other segments of the party.

It's really not just about white people. I know that's really hard for some people to accept, but it's true.

http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2008/05/clintons-race-baiting-continues.html

[dogday]

78. It should be about all people and I know that is hard for some to accept

but it's true.... It should be about all of us, but this excessive breakdown of race has caused BOTH SIDES to lose perspective....

[wrando]

79. what ever floats your boat

I like to sit around and pluck my guitars
like watermelon too

she already has lost the black vote

she was making HER case not Obama's

blacks vote for Obama, that's a fact

is that racial?

you better believe it

bill from ct

[ClayZ]

64. pluck it .....OUT!

[Doug.Goodall]

7. Obama will be the Democratic nominee, accept it, get over it

Hillary has lost. Hillary is hurting the Democratic Party and you appear to be helping her.

We need to work together to put Obama in the White House and stop fighting Hillary's lost battle.

[wrando]

20. Hillary has probably lost

As for working with Obama's supporters, that may prove difficult

I choose who I work with, I have my entire life

bill from ct

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ampad]

50. Naw that is not it

Hearing the truth just pisses you off. See I can do the roll eye thingie as well :eyes: BTW, sheep go baaaaaaaaa

[barack the house]

10. Well the world is watching, seen Hillary go racial and wondering is america with her or

against her. Especially after Katrina.

[wrando]

46. maybe your world

the world at large could care less, because your framing of the issue is not true, and most people can see that

bill from ct

[emilyg]

67. Not in my world.

[melody]

11. I love the smell of spam troll roasting in the air

It smells like .... well, like horseshit really.

[NashVegas]

16. Posting a Link to the Daily Howler Is a Spam Troll?

What is it when people link to a Hillary-trashing post on Drudge?

[melody]

34. No, it is when you're one of the middle-of-the-night contingent

You all login at the same hour and you all go away at the same time.

Incidentally, Hillary trashed herself. Six months ago, she was one of my heroes. Now I can't bear to hear her speak on TV.
And I supported Edwards.

[cali]

13. Heil Wrando!

that's all I wanted to say.

[wrando]

23. I'll have to report you

You and your little crying cohorts reported me for just that yesterday and I received a warning.

Is that the Obama way?

bill from ct

[mmonk]

18. Distancing oneself from dividing people into categories and stressing

a unity campaign is different from distancing oneself from race.

[Buzz Clik]

22. Yesterday it was blame the media. Today it's "it ain't racist if it's true."

Horseshit.

[wrando]

24. truth doesn't matter?

then you all should be screaming at CNN,MSNBC,ABC etc.

they talk about this every day

truth is a stubborn thing, you can call it names, but it doesn't change

bill from ct

[rucky]

27. What's NOT true is the assumption that white, working-class Hillary voters...

won't support Obama in the GE.

I have two words for you: AFL/CIO

[AllentownJake]

28. Don't waste your time

Any Hillary supporter that supports blatant race baiting by their candidate, her husband, or their surrogates are one of those who was fine with the democratic party as long as the whites were in charge and the blacks new their place. It's a character flaw no arguing or logic will cure.

[rucky]

32. I know, I know...

Barry the Muslim Jew with the Crazy-ass Preacher.

[Maribelle]

33. What is wrong with referring to exit polling information that is broadcast all over the country?

And why is it necessary to distort commenting on exit polling information into a tirade against the Clintons?

This is not a question of the Clintons making up stuff about white, working-class Hillary voters not supporting Obama - - it is stating what the exit polling information states.

I am not fond of exit polls at all, and wish they could be done away with. In the meantime, all political parties are intensely using them, along with all major news outlets.

[rucky]

35. context

So why is this exit poll information so important to Hillary's race? if not the assumption that these people will not vote for Obama in the general? if not the threat that the Dems will lose a base of support if Hillary is not the nominee?

then why else bring it up, if not - once again - to conflate primary results with projected General Election voting behavior?

[dcindian]

36. It is all about intent.

You would have to try very hard to explain what Hillary is trying to do with her statements. Who she is trying to sway or what her message is without running into race.

[wrando]

38. you speak rationally

what are you doing here?

bill from ct

[muriel_volestrangler]

75. No exit polling uses the words "hard working" for a demographic

that was Clinton's alone. The nereat you could get to that would be a division between "of working age" and "retired" - and the retired age group are some of Hillary's most reliable supporters. But they were presumably 'hard working' before they retired, so that doesn't really matter.

[wrando]

80. black vote not in the equation

she wasn't talking about the black vote, she and everyone knows that is gone

90% voting along racial lines, that's a far more radical, racial divide than the white vote

let's talk about that, or is that politically incorrect?

bill from ct

[Maribelle]

89. But if Hillary said those remaining from 'the Greatest Generation' support me over Obama

according to the polls she would also be correct. Of course the polls do not use the words 'the Greatest Generation'.


One cannot deny that in the category of income - - - most of those under say $50,000 are extremely hard working Americans struggling to make ends meet. Just as one cannot deny that in the category of age - - - many are from 'the Greatest Generation'.

[muriel_volestrangler]

90. But she didn't talk about the age of voters

so that is rather hypothetical. But there is a way of matching 'the greatest generation' to an age demographic which shows up in exit polls. No-one asked "are you hard working?"

As far as income goes, there's no easy way to say those earning under $50,000 are more or less hard-working than those earning over that. And they're basically even in those categories anyway - CNN exit poll figures from Indiana:

Vote by Income          Clinton Obama
	 	 	 	 	 	 	 
Less Than $50,000 (46%)   50%    50%
	 	 	 	 	 	 	 
$50,000 or More   (54%)   51%    49%

from North Carolina:

Vote by Income          Clinton Obama No Preference
	 	 	 	 	 	 
Less Than $50,000 (48%)   37%    60%      2%
	 	 	 	 	 	 
$50,000 or More   (52%)   45%    54%      1%

ie a statistical dead heat in Indiana, and in North Carolina, the lower-paid went slightly more for Obama, relatively.

[wrando]

37. I agree

I know, because given the choices I will vote for Obama and so will many other, but to deny that there are too many people still in this country, that will not vote for a black man is not being realistic.

there are also probably more that are sitting on the fence, unsure, those are the people you will alienate with this tone, the others are lost already

let it go, it's not helping

that's my point, that's the point of the Howler piece that I linked to

bill from ct

[rucky]

43. Yes, the fence-sitters don't like to be pigeonholed...

and that works both ways, as it has been and can be interpreted that the Clintons assume the worst of them.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Buzz Clik]

31. "They said it first!" My children learned that isn't a legitimate excuse when they were 4 years old

And context is everything. Objectively analyzing exit polls is one thing. Campaigning on racial divides is disgusting.

[madrchsod]

29. i can make up my own mind about what i hear and read

and i could care less what the daily howlwer has to say.

democrats are going to have to accept the fact we are going to have a black man as our candidate for president.

if they can`t accept the fact then they need to get out of the way, there`s to much work to be done to worry about them

[wrando]

39. ignorance is bliss

bill from ct

[SoonerPride]

49. Then you must be in heaven

you are now banisehd into the ether forever.

plonk

[madrchsod]

51. ignorance is bliss?

[tpsbmam]

47. Ummmmm, I have the power to hear and think for myself....

I don't rely on the MSM to tell me what to think. And it's not just the MSM, FYI.

Have you been paying attention -- Barack gave a little speech back in March. I think people get that he's a man of color. Multiple colors, as a matter of fact. Add to that the fact that the MSM have been playing the race game all along -- ever watched their color count during primary result nights? This ain't new and I, for one, think it's a mistake to ignore it when a candidate and the MSM play the race card.

[wrando]

48. please explain

I understand some of where you're coming from and I think I agree, but I've been saying all along that msm is more to blame than the candidates.

If you're saying the msm doesn't effect your thinking that's fine, but you must agree that the press is powerful and persuasive to the masses.

bill from

[tpsbmam]

55. The MSM is absolutely powerful and does influence the masses....

which is what makes their coverage (or lack thereof) of most important issues so insidious. But they've made race an issue since the start. Will Americans elect a black president? White voters vs. black voters in the exit polls ad infinitum to the point that Chris Matthews finally said the other night (paraphrasing)...."Oh, come on....do we have to do this again? I hate this." Is Barack black enough? Rev. Wright when they barely mention Haggee & Parsley? Ferraro -- how long did that one play out in the media? Helping to push the meme that working-class white voters won't vote for a black candidate. And on and on.

I do think he MSM is to blame and I think that HRC is to blame for some of this. Not all, but some.

In the OP you said,

make no mistake, this kind of talk coming from the msm and his supporters has done more to make BO the black candidate than anything the Clintons could possibly say

And I disagree with you. His candidacy HAS been made about race by the MSM (see above) and especially lately by Hillary Clinton. I think some of it was bound to happen but it's been emphasized by her campaign (again, particularly lately). His supporters for the most part didn't make this about race, Clinton and the MSM did. Could I say that none of her supporters have made it about race? Of course not. But this has lately become a booming meme from the Clinton camp and not just from some of her supporters, but from the candidate herself. And, as usual, the MSM is for the most part repeating memes without a modicum of intelligence or integrity.

Lastly, it's not just the MSM who have reacted vocally and negatively to Sen. Clinton's latest statement re: white hard-working Americans. I point you to a few Clinton supporters and undeclared supers who've done the same: Joe Conason, Muriel Offerman (NC super), Debra Kozikowsi (as far as I know still an undecided MA super), Charlie Rangel (super & Clinton supporter), etc.

No, Obama supporters' outrage at Clinton's race-baiting did not highlight race in this election. Supporters are doing what should be second-nature to Democrats -- calling people out when they DO make race an issue in this election.

[Seabiscuit]

59. Cite one quote from Hillary or Bill Clinton that is "racist" and not merely demographic.

I've challenged other BO supporters with this question many times before on DU and not one of them was able to come up with a single quotation that any rational person could label as "racist".

Hillary and Bill are not the ones making race an issue. BO, his supporters, Wright, and the MSM are the ones doing that.

Until you and other BO supporters can do that (and unless you're utterly irrational you know you can't), none of you have any business falsely claiming either Hillary or Bill are either "racist" or "playing the race card".

[tpsbmam]

60. I've tried to be nice to Hillary supporters....

and I expect you to afford me the same courtesy -- you're coming close here to me hitting "ignore."

First, I've never once called either Bill or Hillary a racist. Do I think they've both been race-baiting? Yeah, I sure do.

Is it not possible for two people to hear the same statement and have very different reactions to it? It happens all the time. Doesn't make either one of us "right" or "wrong." We have different interpretations of the same statement, as we have different emotional reactions to the same statement. So, in my experience and from MY perception, both have been race-baiting. That's not your perception, that's clear. We disagree, period.

[Seabiscuit]

62. So whenever Hillary responds to a question about demographics you think she's

"playing the race card"? Same with Bill?

What exactly does the phrase "playing the race card" mean to you? And how does it differ from "racism"?

The fact is, the MSM has framed questions to Hillary and Bill that involve Obama's "race". None of their responses have been "racist". They've merely framed their answers in terms of the demographics presented by the MSM. No once has either of them brought any of that up on their own.

If you've been around here for a while you're certainly aware of the countless BO supporters who have not only used those terms interchangeably, when daily repeating, ad nauseum, that Hillary is a "racist".

Beyond that, I'll take your post as an admission that you can't cite a single quote from Hillary or Bill that could conceivably be called "racist". Thank you.

[tpsbmam]

63. Excuse, me, please....

You've quoted things I didn't say. I never once said in my post "playing the race card," though you quoted it as if I did.

And since you appear just determined to start an argument based on a closed-minded stance you've taken and I find you rude, I'm just ending it here and putting you on ignore. Not rising to it.

[Seabiscuit]

66. Here's what you said in your first post I responded to:

"His candidacy HAS been made about race by the MSM (see above) and especially lately by Hillary Clinton. I think some of it was bound to happen but it's been emphasized by her campaign (again, particularly lately). His supporters for the most part didn't make this about race, Clinton and the MSM did. Could I say that none of her supporters have made it about race? Of course not. But this has lately become a booming meme from the Clinton camp and not just from some of her supporters, but from the candidate herself."

And from your second post: "Do I think they've both been race-baiting? Yeah, I sure do."

If that's not a hollow accusation that Hillary is "playing the race card" I don't know what is. I never once quoted you as saying the words "playing the race card". I clearly used those quotes as well as the quotes around the word "racist" because they are words and phrases commonly used around here.

Now you're just being obtuse.

If you have to put me on "ignore" because you can't deal with any of this, be my guest.

But clearly, you're engaging in the spreading of negative misconceptions about Hillary and Bill Clinton, misconceptions that have led other BO supporters to literally and repeatedly accuse Hillary and Bill of being "racist"

[wrando]

61. I agree mostly

I think way too much was made of the Clinton statements and it has stirred up some of her supporters like Conason and Rangel, from my viewpoint the two I mentioned seemed to think it more of a stupid thing to say. They aren't calling her a racist by any means.

The most incredible outrage and you mention part of it is Matthews. He dares to say this now, but that is the SOB who started all this racism talk. He despises Hillary and after New Hampshire on his ridiculous show he was looking for any reason why Hillary won. He and that equally irresponsible Gene Robinson came up with the theory that people were lying to the pollsters because of race. Matthews and Robinson, that's where it started. I talked to Randi Rhodes on air a couple of days later an she spent a lot of time on that and she agreed with me. If I'm rambling I'm sorry there are people distracting me.

bill from ct

[tpsbmam]

70. Though I don't agree that Matthews started it....

I do agree that he's been one of the most guilty.

To clarify, I don't think she's a racist and never have. I disagree with those who are calling her that (and are calling Bill that). And you're right that both Conason & Rangel pretty much said that it was a stupid thing to say and didn't go further than that. The OP was about making this about Obama being a black candidate and I do think that Conason at least addressed that and I most certainly think the MSM & Clinton campaigns have been doing this. So do I think they're racists? No. Do I think that they'll use race in ways that should be beneath them to win the election. Yes, I do. From my perspective that doesn't make them racists but it does make them pretty slimy.

It WAS a stupid thing to say and I personally think it fits a pattern in the Clinton campaign. I don't think they can continue to claim it was a gaffe when it happens over and over with the Clintons & their prominent supporters (Bill in SC, Ferraro, Hillary's MLK comment, this reported quote from an unnamed Clinton "advisor" -- In the words of that Clinton adviser: "If you have a social need, you're with Hillary. If you want Obama to be your imaginary hip black friend and you're young and you have no social needs, then he's cool"; Andrew Cuomo's "you can't shuck and jive at a press conference" crack.) There've been more, too. Some of them I thought were stretching to call it race-baiting, but I do think there's been a subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) pattern in her campaign. They understand the corporate media. They send their "gaffe" out there, it gets lots of play, and then then clarify or say they regret saying it. The damage is done and they know it.

[wrando]

74. we agree on much of important points

I remember all of the examples you listed, I would ask do any predate the New Hampshire primary? The night of the primary is when Matthews kicked into high gear the racial aspect of the campaigns.

You said you believe the Clintons would use the race issue to their advantage and I think that's obvious, but has Obama used it? I believe they use it in two ways. First as a shield that protects Obama from many attacks just by calling them racist, for example the Rezko dealings. When it was found he was involved in a shady real estate transaction the focus turned to Hillary's description of Rezko as a slumlord, thus creating a straw man. This will be back because his house purchase was shady it all depends on what the repubs can prove, and barring that they never need proof. Second his campaign is often whispering in the ears of the press, painting the Clintons as racists. The difference here is Hillary made the remark herself(stupid) Obama lets others do it for him.

It's all politics, but within the dem party racial politics is like walking the tightrope.

bill from ct

[tpsbmam]

86. Not going to disagree with both of them using race....

but I've never heard Obama say blacks won't vote for Clinton, despite the fact that African-Americans are voting for Obama in staggering numbers. I agree that there have been things that have been called racist that don't qualify IMO. Much of this has come from supporters, though some has come from the campaign. I do think there are times he could have made those claims and didn't or didn't react at all. I have no idea how much of that was due to the kind of person he is, political advice and campaign strategy -- only they can really know that. I totally agree that the "slumlord" thing was a straw man. Rezko is going to be a campaign attack, like it or not. It's a fair one, too. It's not about race, it's about the man and dealings with him. It was a smart tactical move on Obama's part, but I totally agree that one belongs to Obama.

Look, as I've said, I don't like the racist tags for the Clintons -- it's wrong. And I don't deny that some from Obama's campaign have been using that tag. But one doesn't open oneself up to that without making the kinds of statements they've made. I don't expect Obama or his campaign surrogates to take attack after attack without responding and, given the nature of what they've responded to, some of it will be about race. And some may disagree with me and see it as racist. As I've said before, what I perceive isn't necessarily the same as the next person. I'm a white woman who is over 50. If I were an African American man over 50 who'd been hearing racist remarks all my life and I'd been stopped innumerable times for driving/walking/breathing while black, I'm not sure I'd be as generous or understanding. I can't say that the people who've called them racist don't believe what they're saying -- they may well mean it and they may well have been hurt by the Clintons. When you say some of the things the Clintons have said, you open yourself up to being called racist if that's how people are now seeing you. I know I've cringed at a few things they've said about the voters and some of them made me positively irate. I worked my ass off for Bill in both of his campaigns and now he's calling me elitist and dismissing my vote and my concern for my country because I'm not a working class white. Believe me, that got a "fuck you, Bill" out of me -- I worked my ass off for my education (including working 2 jobs while I was in grad school) and I'm not going to take it from Bill Clinton or anyone else when he dismisses voters like me so arrogantly. So if I have that reaction when his arrogant dismissals include me, why might not a person of color hear their remarks as racist?

It's more than the Clinton's using race "to their advantage." My primary qualm with the Clinton campaign as it pertains to this issue is it's repeated over and over and it's divisive. I expect better. Or maybe I just want better. This "white won't vote for Obama" meme, or "hard-working" whites isn't new. For example, as they've gone around for awhile now they've been dismissing the import of states that went for Obama because there are lots of African American voters in those states. And Bill has made statements about the voters that I personally find offensive and to which I have a "fuck you" reaction -- how does this help them and how does this help the country? Varieties of the "whites won't vote for" meme have been around for a while, much of it coming from the Clinton camp (particularly of late). It wasn't as blatant as "whites won't vote for" but it was there. What does that do for our country? What does that do for race relations? This isn't just about the campaign and the Clintons winning their campaign, it's about our country. I don't want to hear ANY of the candidates (Dems in particular) up there repeating over and over that whites won't vote for so-and-so, blacks won't vote for so-and-so, Hispanics won't vote for so-and-so, etc. That is NOT what our country needs. I don't want to hear Obama saying blacks won't vote for Hillary and I don't want to hear her saying whites won't vote for Barack. I want to hear them challenging each other on the issues, and they both have stances to challenge.

I'm giving you the Matthews thing. I avoid television as much as possible so I'm sure I'm not as on top of that as you appear to be.

[wrando]

87. good back and forth

I certainly respect your opinions, sometimes it gets out of hand in politics, but after this is settled and the unhappy dems get a bellyful of Rush and Hannity they'll be back

check out my post below in this thread ,last one

real racism

bill from ct

[tpsbmam]

88. Will check it out....I agree, it's nice to have a civil disagreement! n/t

[JVS]

56. Which is why it was indeed in the Clinton's interests to race-bait all the way since SC.

As they did.

[EFerrari]

57. Even before that but most of us tried to excuse it

or call it something else because it was too ugly to believe. Shaheen.

[VotesForWomen]

71. yep; and that shit's not gonna fly in the GE. it's gonna be a rude awakening.

[wrando]

81. this is a story about real racism

first 40 sec

Holliday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IQgU5V5KEs&feature=related

bill from ct