Jesus is a Democrat, claims Dean

[T_i_B]

Oddly enough, I don't think Jesus has any party affiliation.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/01/04/wdean04.xml&sSheet=/portal/2004/01/04/ixportal.html&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=51993

In a striking shift in strategy on the stump, Democratic presidential candidates are attempting to enlist God on their side to counter President George W Bush's overwhelming popularity among religious voters.

Howard Dean, the Democratic frontrunner, is the latest to try the tactic. Despite previously sticking to his pledge to keep "God and guns" out of politics, he all but recruited Jesus Christ as a liberal Democrat in an interview over the Christmas period.

For his part, Gen Wesley Clark has begun speaking in church halls throughout the South and has hired a Roman Catholic sociologist. A specialist in religious psephology, the aide is advising the general on reaching out to "convertible Catholics" who might be persuaded not to vote again for Mr Bush in November.

In the most dramatic turnaround, Mr Dean, a Congregationalist, apparently sought to claim that Christ was a liberal. "Christ was someone who sought out people who were disenfranchised," said the former governor of Vermont, "people who were left behind. He fought against self-righteousness of people who had everything. He was a person who set an extraordinary example that has lasted 2,000 years, which is pretty inspiring when you think about it."

[RUexperienced]

1. And Job is Dean's favorite New Testament book

Why doesn't this guy keep his mouth shut? His pandering is evident to everyone but him and his pollsters.

[farmbo]

9. Its not Job...Its Mathew :5-7...And he never called Jesus "liberal"

That was just the writer's spin.

How are you pandering to Christians when you use the words of Christ?

1 And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciples came to Him. 2Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying:


3"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth.

6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.
10Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

[RUexperienced]

49. Howard Dean yesterday said that

Job was his favorite NEW Testament book.

He is beginning to sound like Ronald Reagan telling black voters he really likes rap music and that his favorite rapper is "75 cent."

[White Mountain]

66. He is beginning to sound like Ronald Reagan

Maybe Joycelyn Elders (Eric Clapner) but hardly Ragan. Dean is the anti-Regan. Clark is the used-to-be-Ragan a few months ago.

[RUexperienced]

72. LOL... "Eric Clapner" is the best example

[RUexperienced]

51. Here is the story

From the NY Times today:

"If you know much about the Bible -- which I do --...

Asked his favorite New Testament book, Dr. Dean named Job, adding: "But I don't like the way it ends." "Some would argue, you know, in some of the books of the New Testament, the ending of the Book of Job is different," he said. "I think, if I'm not mistaken, there's one book where there's a more optimistic ending, which we believe was tacked on later."

Job, the Old Testament story of a righteous man who suffers hardships as a test of his faith, ends with the Lord restoring his fortunes and the protagonist living to be "an old man, and full of days." Some scholars have posited that the original ending may have been more dour.

An hour after his comments, Dr. Dean returned to the clutch of reporters, saying he realized he had misspoken because Job is not in the New Testament."

[mouse7]

80. Job? Eeeek!

Maybe Dean got his speech pages in the wrong order?

There was the religion stuff on page 2 and Dean messed up page turning and went straght to the Job creation stuff on page 4.

[Cheswick2.0]

10. Did you ever consider the story of Job?

Did you ever consider the story and what it might mean to someone in politics? Or are you just complaining because you support someone else and this is a convenient "issue" to complain about?

[OhioStateProgressive]

31. JOB

i sure hope a politician doesn't find meaning in JOB

it's a disgusting tale...yeah, if there was a god i would be happy to know he kills off the families of his followers and makes them sick, just to prove they have faith


spiteful, revengeful...it doesn't matter, he's our goddog

[RUexperienced]

54. For the record

The book of Job teaches that it was the devil who took Job's family, health and belongings and it was God who resored it all DOUBLE.

[OhioStateProgressive]

55. as opposed to preventing it...

i am not getting into a discussion about religion any further, it is silly and outdated

[RUexperienced]

56. Howard Dean brought it up

not me.

[OhioStateProgressive]

57. fair enough:)

[meow mix]

67. the average person

will not be able to get past "job is new testament" in order to consider the message.
but maybe im wrong heh

[funky_bug]

84. Having actually read the book once or twice...

Any casual reader of the Bible would know that Job was not in the NT. I was waiting to see how the Dean people would "poop" this one away. It's stinks of hypocrasy. If ya don't know the book, don't use the book.

[JVS]

32. Job is an old testament book

[RUexperienced]

46. I know Job is in the Old Testament. Howard Dean doesn't.

That's my point.

[w4rma]

48. Yes he does. (n/t)

[RUexperienced]

52. He does now and I'm sure he won't forget it this time.

From the NY Times today:

"If you know much about the Bible -- which I do --...

Asked his favorite New Testament book, Dr. Dean named Job, adding: "But I don't like the way it ends." "Some would argue, you know, in some of the books of the New Testament, the ending of the Book of Job is different," he said. "I think, if I'm not mistaken, there's one book where there's a more optimistic ending, which we believe was tacked on later."

Job, the Old Testament story of a righteous man who suffers hardships as a test of his faith, ends with the Lord restoring his fortunes and the protagonist living to be "an old man, and full of days." Some scholars have posited that the original ending may have been more dour.

An hour after his comments, Dr. Dean returned to the clutch of reporters, saying he realized he had misspoken because Job is not in the New Testament."

[patricia92243]

2. Jesus not political-but what Gov. Dean said about Him was correct

[CWebster]

3. "...apparently sought to claim that Christ was a liberal"

"In the most dramatic turnaround, Mr Dean, a Congregationalist, apparently sought to claim that Christ was a liberal. "Christ was someone who sought out people who were disenfranchised," said the former governor of Vermont, "people who were left behind. He fought against self-righteousness of people who had everything. He was a person who set an extraordinary example that has lasted 2,000 years, which is pretty inspiring when you think about it."

Dean's words did not specifically claim that Christ was a Denocratic liberal, interesting that the author recognized the attributes of liberalism but put a slight negative spin on it as if to say Dean was claiming Christ for callus political advantage.

[RUexperienced]

What's next? Moses is his favorite disciple?

He should leave religion to the religious and just run for president.

[Cheswick2.0]

5. maybe he's religious?

Come off it, in this country everyone has a right to talk about religion.

[virtualobserver]

14. not just a right, but a duty

The republicans have been using religion for their political gain.
The description of the "supply side" Jesus that they worship does not match up well with the biblical text.

[OhioStateProgressive]

30. there will never be peace until religion is GONE

and that is one of the MAIN reasons the far left cannot tolerate Moderate Democratic rule

[QC]

34. Now there's a winning platform!

In all seriousness, though, don't you think that if we somehow eliminated religion tomorrow, people would still fight over money, resources, etc?

[OhioStateProgressive]

39. yes, religion isn't the only evil in the world

but we live in a godless universe...it's about time people deal with it

[Clark Can WIN]

74. Well thank you for making the decision for all of us

:eyes: Anything else we can do for you today?

[OhioStateProgressive]

75. I made no such decision

science however, has been able to discover the truths, and we are left to reconcile ourselves to these truths, or shun them

[RUexperienced]

45. No religion means peace? Sure just ask Stalin

[OhioStateProgressive]

50. religion means peace?...just ask the Native americans(nt)

[RUexperienced]

58. You had your chance

to have peace without religion. The Russians/Soviets were just one example of how peaceful their society could be, unless you were religious. Then it was off to the gulag for you.

And if you tried to escape into the West, the East Germans, who were equally non-religious, would shoot you in the back.

[OhioStateProgressive]

63. "nothings gonna change my world"

I still 'Imagine'

[RUexperienced]

71. For all John Lennon's ranting about the rich vs. the poor

just remember his blue Rolls Royce stretch limosine.

How many poor childen could that have fed?

[OhioStateProgressive]

73. and this is relevant how?

"imagine there's no heaven"

I am talking about this idea of god and self

[RUexperienced]

78. You brought up Lennon.

I simply think you could find a more credible sourse for your beliefs.

[OhioStateProgressive]

81. ok

saying John Lennon isn't credible to me is like asking for an argument, so i won't

but only to say that in general, beliefs come from within, and my using the Lennon lyric is only as he encapsulated the state of mind so perfectly why would I say something else?

art explains the world better than logic and reason

[Gore1FL]

7. Who is to say he isn't religious?

Granted, I don't like to see Religion mixed up in the fray, but it isn't like Dean invesnted the concept. It is unfortunately a front in the political battlefield.

[KittyWampus]

20. Christ Most Certainly Did NOT Seek People Out

He spoke, and those who had ears listened.

I suppose one could make an exception for the Apostles... but it's obvious that isn't what Dean was referring to.

Christ was NOT a proselytizer.

And that he would use the term "Left Behind" which is code for the Fundamentalists PROVES he's pandering. i

[bitchkitty]

42. Ridiculous -

How does that "prove" pandering? Your hatred is not a pretty thing to see.

[Brian_Expat]

44. Christ saught people out

And told them what he called the "Good News."

God, I hate it when insincere people attack the faith of others simply because their faith isn't in lockstep with what the original people think. :(

[T_i_B]

4. UK press seems quite keen on Dean and religion

Here is a similar article in the Sunday Times

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-951208,00.html

[ithacan]

6. Dean is absolutely correct

this website shows very clearly that fact (not about being "a Democrat", but that Jesus's teachings are in line with today's progressives, and absolutely antithetical to the right wingers' politics):

http://www.right-wing-pseudo-christians.com/

Matthew 25:31-46: WWJD?
What Would Jesus Do? Jesus Would Send All These Right-Wing Pseudo-Christians Straight to Hell (And Liberals May Not Be Far Behind)

by Jack Clark

Introduction

In Matthew 25:31-46, Jesus proclaims that how you treat the hungry, the thirsty, the sick and other "least of these," is how you treat Jesus himself. And if you fail to help the "least of these," Jesus promises, he will send you to Hell.

The premise of this essay is that you can't be a true Christian if the focus of your life is thwarting others and the society itself from fully implementing such a fundamental teaching of Christianity as Matthew 25:31-46.

It's fine to oppose government programs to help the Matthew 25 "least of these," but then you must propose Equivalent Alternative Solutions. Equivalent Alternative Solutions are ones which:

- help at least the same number of those people who legitimately need - help provide at least the same amount of effective assistance to those people
- get the help to them at least as quickly
- are at least as certain to accomplish these goals


Equivalent Alternative Solutions can certainly be completely non- governmental, as long as they meet the four criteria directly above.

Right-wing Christians are defined by both their opposition to the plans of others to help the "least of these," and their failure to offer any Equivalent Alternative Solutions.

Their behavior puts right-wing pseudo-Christians into the category of the cursed goats whom Jesus describes in Matthew 25 and condemns to Hell.

<more>

[ulysses]

8. a politician claiming Jesus

isn't a new thing.

[liberalnurse]

11. Well, I do know *bush is evil and

he and his party fundamentalist are poor examples of any religious affiliation. Disgraceful, greedy, inhumane, selfish, dishonest and they engage in bean-counting soldiers lives as expendable for their own selfish needs....power and oil.

[OhioStateProgressive]

12. i hate religious pandering(nt)

[whirlygigspin]

13. amen brother

lol

[in_cog_ni_to]

15. Me too.

:puke:

[virtualobserver]

16. Dean isn't pandering...

He is pointing out the inconsistencies in their beliefs.

What Dean is doing is dangerous and courageous.

[OhioStateProgressive]

18. it IS pandering, otherwise I would have called it something different(nt)

[Cheswick2.0]

22. thankfully I have my own brain

and don't have to rely on yours. He is not pandering otherwise I would say he was.

:eyes:

[OhioStateProgressive]

28. yes, well the tactic only works when you are me

the fact is that he is pandering

[janx]

43. Yes indeed it is! Remember the thread here about when

Dean called the rabid right Pharisees?

[funky_bug]

85. not to mention

funny... very funny. You think he knows the difference between Old and New Testament? What's next? Esther as the mother of Christ?

[DemBones DemBones]

17. I love it that Dean's talking about religion because

never before have so many DUers approved of anyone talking about religion. It's a nice change. ;-)

[OhioStateProgressive]

19. I think religion stinks

thats what I think about Omnipresent Mind control

[Cheswick2.0]

23. brilliant analysis

"religion stinks"... you could probably start a whole movement around that concept.

[OhioStateProgressive]

29. start a movement?

I'm satisfied with science disproving the silly notions of "god"

[JPJones]

21. The Bible scholar

From the NY Times today:

"If you know much about the Bible -- which I do --...

Asked his favorite New Testament book, Dr. Dean named Job, adding: "But I don't like the way it ends." "Some would argue, you know, in some of the books of the New Testament, the ending of the Book of Job is different," he said. "I think, if I'm not mistaken, there's one book where there's a more optimistic ending, which we believe was tacked on later."

Job, the Old Testament story of a righteous man who suffers hardships as a test of his faith, ends with the Lord restoring his fortunes and the protagonist living to be "an old man, and full of days." Some scholars have posited that the original ending may have been more dour.

An hour after his comments, Dr. Dean returned to the clutch of reporters, saying he realized he had misspoken because Job is not in the New Testament."

[KittyWampus]

25. Dollars To Donuts Dean's Advisors Prompted Him About The Gaffe

and it's funny how Dean seems to get "do-overs" with the press....

[in_cog_ni_to]

26. hehe......

An hour after his comments, Dr. Dean returned to the clutch of reporters, saying he realized he had misspoken because Job is not in the New Testament

An hour later? Hmmmm.....could someone have gone to look up the book of Job in his copy of the Bible and gone back to correct himself? He probably figured he had a 50/50 chance of getting Old Testament/New Testament correct and took a stab at it. hehe.....Bible study time.

Maybe Howard should leave the Bible preaching to the Evangelists? :shrug:

[DancingBear]

24. Anyone remember the "Pander Bear"

from a previous campaign?

Boy, if there's ever a campaign to use that against, here it is.

What's next - no, I know.

"Dean to get baptized in Mississippi River - finds southern water 'spiritual'."

Ackkk.

[HFishbine]

27. What a misinformed load

Dean never pledged to keep God and guns out of politics. Dean never said Jesus was a democrat. The writer is either woefully misinformed or intentionally lose with the facts.

[Brian_Expat]

40. How is Dean saying "God wants you to vote for me"?

Dean pledged to eliminate the exclusive focus on God, guns and gays, not stop talking about those three issues.

Besides, as a Quaker, I think it's high time that liberals reclaimed Christ from the fundy right, which has twisted his message beyond all recognition. Listening to GOP fundies, you'd think Jesus' golden rule was "be rich, white and racist." :eyes:

[Philosophy]

33. But he doesn't talk to God

If he did, God would tell him like he told * that all that old liberal love thy neighbor and take up the cross stuff in the Bible doesn't apply any more - the NEW CONSERVATIVE God only cares about making money and blowing stuff up.

[bitchkitty]

35. What, you think Christ

was a Southern Baptist living in Mississippi?

Christ wasn't a Democrat. But he certainly was a socialist.

[ozone_man]

41. I think you're right about that.

But, we have to be careful about mentioning that when we're running as a Democrat. :-)

The lessons that Dean is presenting seem well intentioned and I don't think he is assigning any political stance for Jesus. That would be up to an individual to figure out. I think it might cause some to realize that Bush does not represent anything that Jesus might have approved of. I am an atheist, but I like a lot of what Jesus said.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

36. You're welcome, Dean

:)

[Brian_Expat]

37. Where does Dean say "Jesus is a Democrat?"

Or are you putting words in his mouth again?

Sleazy, sleazy. . .

[NashVegas]

69. What? A Misleading Headline in a Richard Perle-Associated Rag?

Say it ain't so!

[Brian_Expat]

38. This is also evidence of what I said earlier

There are LOTS of people who are holding Dean's faith against him, going on the attack, while ignoring Clark's extensive invocations of faith.

Further, Dean is right. Jesus WAS a liberal -- he hung out with the "dregs of society," encouraged people to share and not worry about material life, and encouraged people to make a better life for others on planet Earth as well as the afterlife. People who are going after Dean on this point are either anti-religious folks or, more likely, Dean haters who are willing to allow their own candidate to embrace exactly the same rhetoric they're condemning in Dean.

Case closed, next. . .

[madfloridian]

47. So you think this is wrong?

SNIP..."Christ was someone who sought out people who were disenfranchised," said the former governor of Vermont, "people who were left behind. He fought against self-righteousness of people who had everything. He was a person who set an extraordinary example that has lasted 2,000 years, which is pretty inspiring when you think about it."

I think that is a good description of Jesus and his life. Are you disagreeing?

[w4rma]

53. Isn't the Telegraph owned, partially, by Richard Perle and Kissinger? (nt)

[T_i_B]

86. Perle yes

I was wondering when people would notice the spin in the article, although the Times article I posted spins against Dean even more!

[cosmicdot]

59. kind of interesting, thinking back on the election/primaries of 1960

when JFK campaigned to establish trust in his independence from the church ... and, now, we have a resident with a hotline above the Pope ...

[Hep]

60. Nonsense.

Of course Jesus is a democrat. He's all about helping those in need, forgiving sins, and treating everyone with dignity and respect.

Jesus's birth marked the transition of society from the republican Old Testament to the Democratic New Testament. It's all pretty obvious to me.

[Scott Lee]

61. Jesus would have been more aligned with the Democrats than

the modern day repugs, that's for sure.

Let's see...the guy hung out with women and the disenfranchised. He was a fiscal conservative (render unto caesar, but also to God). Regardless of what the fundamentalists bleat, according to the NT Christ didn't say a word specifically about homosexuals, making it clear that the Nazarene Carpenter didn't have something outstanding against them.

Finally, Christ was a political agitator, taking on the establishment (Pharisees) for a better way. Now granted, the DLC are the new Pharisees, but that's for another argument.

Once again, Dean was right. He must get sick of being right.

[mbali]

62. Just wondering . . .

Once again, Dean was right. He must get sick of being right.

Do you think that Howard Dean has ever been wrong about anything? If so, what?

[Hep]

65. Yeah

He's been wrong about a couple of things. But this isn't one of them.

[mbali]

68. What has he been wrong about? n/t

[Hep]

88. You don't know?

It depends on what you think is right.

[beaconess]

90. What do YOU think he's been wrong about?

[Brian_Expat]

64. Do other Democrats think attacking religion is a "winning issue?"

Or are they saying that they're the only ones allowed to talk about religion and anyone else who does is eeeeeeeeevuhl? :eyes:

[TeacherCreature]

70. I don't

I never we had so may religious obsessive folks in the party.

[quaker bill]

76. If you read his stuff, Jesus was definitely not a republican

Democrat??? not so sure about that. But the republicans more closely resemble the Pharisees.

[Bucky]

77. "Psephology" is a totally COOL word! thanks for that one

psephology = (n.) the statistical and sociological study of elections
psephos pebble, vote + -logy, from the ancient Greeks' custom of voting with pebbles]

[H2O Man]

79. Okay, okay, you've had your fun. Now pay attention:

You can't put labels like "socialist," "democrat," or "liberal" on the historic human being named Jesus. He was a member of a nomadic tribe that was under the oppression of an empire. There was no economic system available to him that allowed for any of the modern industrial systems (capital-social-communism).
I am not offended when people do not accept the oppressive religious views of our present roman empire elite. They do not know anything of significance about the teachings of Jesus. For the person who wrote about the insights from the laws of science, well, your right in a sense, but THAT is god, or God, depending on your point of view. I trust that you love children, favore clean water over polluted wastes,and think that sex is great. That is god, too.
Picture, if you will, that my old friends Martin Luther King and Malcolm X were with us here today. Would any of you say that you don't want them on our side, 'cause they believe in God? Would you think that Brother Malcolm was a "bush spy" 'cause he prayed 5 times a day? Would you call my buddy Martin a coward, because he believed in a power greater than the empire of Rome?
One last thought tonight: Unity Is God! And beware of taking a few lines of John Lennon way outta context. You miss the point!

[stickdog]

82. I'd love to hear what's wrong with what Dean said about Jesus.

"Christ was someone who sought out people who were disenfranchised, people who were left behind. He fought against self-righteousness of people who had everything. He was a person who set an extraordinary example that has lasted 2,000 years, which is pretty inspiring when you think about it."

Go ahead folks. Do your worst.

[T_i_B]

87. If there are any problems

It's that Dean is saying things which, as can be seen can be spun against him VERY easily by the right and which also go against what he apparently has previously said and done, which allows Dean's enemies to label him a phoney.

That said, I'm not with the rabidly anti-Dean/rabidly anti-religion types on here at all.

[bhunt70]

83. Dean is uptight, claims Jesus.

[RetroLounge]

89. "he all but recruited Jesus Christ as a liberal Democrat"

"he all but recruited Jesus Christ as a liberal Democrat"

Uhm, kind of a wiggle word, odd phrase. So Dean didn't really recruit jesus, but he all but recruited him?

What kind of Shite writing is this?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

91. We are thankful you are in Britain too!

:evilgrin:

[T_i_B]

92. I'd be a damm sight more thankful

If somebody else had Tony Blair!

Whatever your views on Dean, his sort of grassroots campaign is the exact sort of thing that Blair became leader of the Labour party to crush. I wish we had somebody a little bit like him really, although I still have not made my mind up whether Dean would be better for you lot then Clark.