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Clinton's Strength is Not Obama's Weakness or Democratic Voters Like BOTH of Them

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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-19-08 07:50 PM
Original message
Clinton's Strength is Not Obama's Weakness or Democratic Voters Like BOTH of Them
People in the news media and here at Democratic Underground sometimes frame the question "Why do people keep voting for Clinton?" as "What is wrong with Obama?" Part of this probably comes from the old schoolyard stereotype that there is something shameful about being beaten by a girl.Forget that Clinton was the front runner in name recognition, public opinion polls and even among African-American voters until late January of this year. It is still seen as such a miracle that a woman can get votes in a primary in the U.S.---especially with the mainstream press in a dog pile with Chris Matthews leading the fun---that people forget that her husband was wildly popular especially when he was under attack from the mainstream media.

Just between you and me, sometimes I see Keith Olbermann bashing Hillary with that Teutonic fervor in his eyes and voice, and I remember how he and Bill Clinton hit it off after the "Gentle" Chris Matthews affair in 2006. And I wonder Hmmm. Is KO smarter than we all think? Is he punking Richard Wolffe and his bosses at GE? Being the victim of a right and left wing media crusade has revitalized Clinton's campaign like nothing else could. The American working class just loves a Clinton media martyr.

But this too shall pass. Then, it is off to the general election. Which candidate takes the Democratic voters with them? Looks like they both do.

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1295.xml?ReleaseID=1177

In an Obama-McCain matchup, independent voters back the Democrat 48 - 37 percent, the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University poll finds. Men split with 45 percent for McCain and 44 percent for Obama, while women back Obama 49 - 36 percent. McCain leads 47 - 40 percent among white voters, while blacks back Obama 87 - 4 percent.

In a Clinton-McCain contest, independent voters split with 41 - 41 percent. Men go with McCain 46 - 42 percent while women back Clinton 51 - 36 percent. White voters back McCain 48 - 41 percent, the same margin as the Obama-McCain matchup, while black voters back Clinton 79 - 8 percent.

Among Democrats, Obama is ahead slightly as 45 percent say they want to see him win the nomination while 41 percent want to see Clinton as the nominee. And Democrats say 63 - 34 percent that Clinton should stay in the presidential race.

By a 60 - 33 percent margin, Democrats say Obama should pick Clinton as his vice presidential running mate.

"Sen. Hillary Clinton's never-say-die campaign still has lots of fans. Just as in delegates, states, money, you-name-it, Obama leads her in national support - but only by a bit," said Maurice Carroll, director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute.

"Either Democrat leads Sen. John McCain, with heavy support from black voters. McCain has an edge among white voters."


Countdown just came on. The good old boys still insist upon calling Clinton "Hillary" even though Obama is Obama. We see video of Clinton mentioning that Karl Rove has endorsed her general election appeal. She sort of laughs as she says his name. She does not sound very impressed. Her audience of Democrats does not sound very impressed. KO uses this as an excuse to ask Fineman and Alter if the truce is off and if Clinton (correction Hillary ) is back to being someone he can bash? They tell him sadly but firmly "No." He looks disappointed. No one could be this good an actor. I guess that all the Clinton-bashing has been real. He will pay for it in his next life, which he will spend as a women in some country where the females have to live behind veils.

Rachel Maddow was really good last Friday on Countdown as the substitute host. When is MSNBC going to give her a show of her own? We women deserve it. We have put up with a lot of crap from the GE networks.

Clinton's appeal with her base of angry, disaffected Democrats should continue a little while longer, thanks to the tin ear of people who just can not hear when the music has changed. However, her voters are Democratic voters. They like Obama only slightly less than they like Clinton and they will be relieved when they no longer have to choose between two stellar candidates. Also, they will have their favorite Dem urging them to vote for Obama. Apologies to Rep. Clyburn, but Clinton did not like losing the primary. She will be really unhappy if the Democrats lose the general election, too. She will see it as a personal failure, since in her own mind she is Joan of Arc and a higher power assigned her the task of saving this country. This means that she is going to move straight from candidate for the nomination to campaigner for the nominee in order to ensure a Democratic Party win. I hope Obama does not mind playing the role of Dauphin. He shouldn't since it means that he gets to be the king and Clinton is the one who will be burned at the stake.



People who attack Clinton should remember that saints and martyrs thrive on abuse. What they can not stand is being ignored. Tonight, I realized that for all his Obama bias, KO pays much more attention to Clinton than he does to Obama. What would Robin Hood have been without the Sheriff of Nottingham? Would Jean Valjean exist without his Javert?
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-19-08 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. At least you lightened up on the litcridiocy this time.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-19-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I can do limericks, too.
At the sight of four syllable words
He was known to pass foul turds.
With a terrible glance
He would piss his pants
Then dart for the safety of herds.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-19-08 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Hah! That was actually funny! Kudos!
:rofl:
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-19-08 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Thanks!
:headbang:
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gcomeau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-19-08 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. Oh for the love of ...
Countdown just came on. The good old boys still insist upon calling Clinton "Hillary" even though Obama is Obama.


Stop being ridiculous. Click here:

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/

What does it say at the top of that page? Does it say "Clinton for President"? No? Didn't think so. It says "Hillary for President".

Scanning down the page... oh look! There they are lying about the popular vote totals... and it's Hillary 16.69M votes.

Scanning further... hey, there's "Hillary TV!"

"Join Team Hillary"

"Crowds greet Hillary in Kentucky"

"Get the new Hillary Poster"

In fact, the only place on that ENTIRE page where I found the word "Clinton" was in the little footnote in the bottom that says "Paid for by Hillary Clinton For President"

How desperate for complaints do you have to be when people use Hillary AT HER URGING and you use it to imply they're being condescending or dismissive when they do?

Sheesh.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-19-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Look at what the pollsters call her. They are PROFESSIONALS.
This should be a hint for people in the news media who want to sound like professionals---as opposed to entertainers who do stories about "celebrities" like Brittney Spears.

Here is a random google "Bill Moyer plus Hillary Clinton" I scanned this "Journal" interview and I only see Moyer refer to her as "Hillary Clinton" or as "Clinton". Moyer is a good standard for journalist behavior.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/12072007/transcript1.html

I used to call her "Hillary" too, until I realized that this was her campaign name, for voters. It was not meant for news professionals. It was like Jimmy Carter. He used the name Jimmy to create a rapport with voters but he was still Gov. Carter for the press. In my family, we call everyone by their first names, even the grandparents (my son calls me and my husband and both his sets of grandparents by their first names), so it sounded fine to my ear, but in the "real world" when news people write "Hillary" it is not a term of endearment. It is a term of belittlement.
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Lord Helmet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-19-08 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hilary got her ass handed to her and won't drop out, people don't like that
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-19-08 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Which people? Not these people in this poll of Democrats.
http://www.gallup.com/video/107026/Majority-Democrats-Say-Keep-Campaigning.aspx

More than half of Democrats (60%) think that both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton should continue to campaign for the Democratic nomination. Twenty-three percent say Clinton should drop out and 15% say Obama should drop out.


This is just one of several polls that have shown the same thing. Since majority rules, I think that the continue campaigning votes have it. All we are doing right now is registering more voters and building up more excitement for this fall.

Go Dems!

:dem:
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-19-08 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
9. The unity ticket generates more Dem enthusiasm/has better chance to win -but Hill hate is
likely to have the Obama folks going it alone with the rational that they are "expanding the party" - in which case most Clinton votes will still go to Obama but the race will be much closer and indeed easily might be a loss.
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democrattotheend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-19-08 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
10. Hillary chose to use her first name on her campaign signs
She chose to brand herself using her first name, probably to distinguish herself from Bill. So I don't see what's wrong with them referring to her that way, since that's how she has promoted herself.
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