Obama accuses Clinton of stoking up anger?

[BenDavid]

Obama is accusing HRC of stoking up anger in Michigan and Florida over the Democratic Party's
decision to ignore their votes. I don't think Obama gets it. The voters aren't angry because of Clinton, they are angry because their votes aren't being counted. It's Obama who decided to remove his name from the ballot in Michigan and the Democratic Party who are making voters angry. Clinton is trying to allow their votes to be counted so that they aren't angry.

If Florida and Michigan aren't counted in the primary then how do you think they will vote in the general election when Florida and Michigan do count? Do you think these states will vote for the party and the candidate who takes away their vote?

Marc Perkel

[MercutioATC]

1. Maybe the angry MI and FL voters should focus their anger on the responsible parties...

...their own elected Democratic state legislators.

[Ravy]

13. It takes two to tango.

The DNC needs to share the blame for enacting the total dismissal for the state, rather than the half of the delegation specified in the rules committee.

What did Florida do that was so aggregious that they warranted the extra penalty? They moved only a week early and after the chosen four had voted. They didn't retalliate when the four states made the candidates sign a pledge that they would not campaign in the state.

I think the DNC will back down this weekend. They should not have imposed the extra penalty, just left it at half the delegation like the RNC did. The RNC looks reasonable, the DNC does not.

If the DNC does not back down this weekend, I hear rumblings of retalliation in future elections.

[MercutioATC]

16. 50% is the MINIMUM penalty.

The DNC didn't act in violation of the rules by originally sanctioning 100%.

Who cares what the RNC does? We have completely different primary systems?

[mckeown1128]

46. The two to tango would be the state parties and Hillary...

It was Hillary's supporters who voted to strip FL and MI of their superdelegates. It was Hillary's superdelegates.

[Alia]

2. I think they'll vote

for whoever they want to be president. You have a very low opinion of the people in FL and MI. They are not the petty vindictive people you believe them to be.

[MadBadger]

3. Why did Clinton say with regards to Michigan that Its clear this election wont count for anything?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

54. Always a show stopper.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ULxxBz-PAjg

[uberllama42]

4. Actually, the polls I have seen

have Obama winning Michigan, but Clinton losing there:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/michigan.html

Obama is not "taking away their vote." He is playing by the same rules that everyone agreed to last year. I don't need to point out one more time that Clinton was only too happy with those rules until she realized that she needed Michigan and Florida to win. She is pandering to MI and FL voters, and some of them do not appreciate that.

[Gore1FL]

5. fire your fact checker as well as your assumption checker.

[yourout]

6. He is sort of right.......she is royally pissing me off.

If we loose in November she will be largely to blame.

[Beacool]

14. No, your inexperienced guy will be to blame. n/t

[akbacchus_BC]

25. Oh Really! Senator H. Clinton must have a lot of experience being

the first lady by ensuring Bill staying faithful. Wow, that is a lot of experience. Meanwhile, Senator Obama is running a flawless campaign and he shows leadership and he is not even hitting Senator Clinton with her useless tactics. You are a hoot!

[Beacool]

55. Flawless???

The guy is a gaffe machine. The fact that he bamboozled enough people with his empty platitudes and that the media held him aloft, does not mean that he would be a good president.

[cliffordu]

7. Meds, Benny, Meds!!!! (Sorry I'm late...)

Dammit, Benny, taking the easy way intellectually isn't always the best thing.

[DevonRex]

51. You really should TRY to make him take them BEFORE he posts. :) nt

[krawhitham]

8. You don't get it and you eat up everything that Hill feeds you

[Youphemism]

9. No question about it...

People from Florida are upset about their votes not counting. They have every reason to be.

And yes, Hillary is stoking that anger by comparing this to a civil rights movement. She was happy to suck up to the first four primary states and screw over Michigan and Florida at the start of the primaries. She sent a letter stating how she was supportive of the ruling against those two states in order to "preserve the unique status" of the states that get to vote first.

Now, she's become the champion of Michigan and Florida, only after the votes have been counted in her favor, and she realizes that she needs them.

This isn't a civil rights movement. It was a stupid move by the DNC that both candidates agreed to at the start. If this *were* a civil rights movement -- if the rights of people were being trampled on from the start -- what does it say about Hillary that she not only didn't speak up right away, but that she sent a letter being *supportive* of this move?

It's very obvious that she's trying to take advantage of the emotions of people who are rightly upset about getting screwed out of their vote. And in the long run, the democratic party will suffer for it, as she gets one group angry with another.

Is there a single person in this forum who honestly believes Hillary would be rallying the flags of Michigan and Florida voters if those two states had favored Obama?

Be honest.

[grantcart]

10. where is the quote please

[Tunkamerica]

28. it's from a letter to the editor by Marc Perkel

at marc.perkel.com

[cbc5g]

11. Dude have you ever read the rules that they both agreed to?

Because I do believe you are making shit up.

[Beacool]

12. Obama should take it up with Howard Dean.

Regardless, FL will go to the Republicans in November as it has done in the previous two elections.

[mcctatas]

15. Link please?

or is this more ad hominem vitriol?

[Tunkamerica]

29. marc.perkel.com

latter to the editor he wrote, not sure which paper.

He was/is a Clinton supporter who appears to concede that Obama has clinched the nomination. I notice that Ben David did not post his previous letter to the editor where he says as much.

[bhikkhu]

17. A quote or a link would be customary

Otherwise its garbage. And I'd say the same if it were against HRC.

[mcctatas]

18. In most cases you would be right...

but this OP is special;)

[bhikkhu]

19. I know...so far never a response to any type of reply

A personal style, perhaps.

[mcctatas]

20. More like a pathology...

:evilgrin:

[Tunkamerica]

24. i think ben david is a bot

that or he has everyone on auto-ignore. there is a kind of random thought generator quality to his posts.

[mcctatas]

26. Someone programmed in several key words and let him go...

It's like a Mad-libs for the race-obsessed zombie army;)

[murielm99]

31. Auto-ignore?

What is that?

[Tunkamerica]

32. it's a sequence of keys you can press to ignore anyone

who doesn't believe your hypotheses. Or I made it up

[mcctatas]

33. ...

:rofl: Of course my first thought was "What sequence of keys?" and then I thought "Wait a minute, if you're ignoring everyone, you couldn't see anything" and then I thought "Doh, I'm a dumbass"

[IsItJustMe]

49. Takes a big dump and then runs and hides to watch every ones reactions.

[Tunkamerica]

30. see my posts above for the link.

[papapi]

21. Nobody is trying to take away there vote in the General Election.

[papapi]

22. Take the red pill NOW!

[krawhitham]

23. Have you hillbots never seen a campaign before?

She was handled with kid gloves, If this was a normal campaign her opposition would have rip her a new over so many different issues. Snipper gate among others would still be going on. You should be happy she was facing Obama, anyone else would have destroyed her by now and she would have no chance of keeping her seat in senate

[akbacchus_BC]

27. She adores George Bush just like her hubby did the senior Bush ..

pushed all the atrocities under the rug. And history is gonna repeat itself if Hilary Clinton get's the nomination. I don't pray, but am hoping the DNC will support him with the SDs and he can be the nominee. Enough with the dynasty!

[emilyg]

34. Her hubby and Bush, Sr. did some excellent work for charity.

[symbolman]

36. Sure, begging for OUR Money while the lil Bush played NERO

Literally.. I've lost all respect for Clinton, never had any for Bush, they are monsters..

Had I seen Clinton with Carter I might have been more apt to help, but him and Bush? Just Bizarre, none of those guys do anything unless there is something in it..

Hell, Clinton's main tax write off "Charity" is THEMSELVES..

Phonies and crooks, like book ends...

[hokies4ever]

35. FL delegation is not slavery abolition, women's suffrage, or Civil Rights

Hillary IS stoking anger by trying to equate Florida's primaries with these momentous movements in our nation's history.

[intaglio]

37. It is good to see that the OP

so fully emulates his prefered candidate

[JVS]

38. that's what she has been doing

[1776Forever]

39. I think you are half right - but there are many disturbed supporters fueled with HRC comments!

If you don't think she is fueling this you are truly naive!

Read this from Hillary is 44 Site:

http://www.hillaryis44.org/

Hillary Clinton is prepared to go all the way to Denver to fight for the civil rights of Florida and Michigan voters.

Hillary understands that often rules are made to discriminate.

In an interview with The Associated Press, Clinton said she is willing to take her fight to seat Florida and Michigan delegates to the convention if the two states want to go that far.

Asked whether she would support the states if they appeal an unfavorable rules committee decision to the convention floor, the former first lady replied:

“Yes I will. I will, because I feel very strongly about this.”

“I will consult with Floridians and the voters in Michigan because it’s really their voices that are being ignored and their votes that are being discounted, and I’ll support whatever the elected officials and the voters in those two states want to do.”

Asked if she now envisioned the race extending beyond June 3, Clinton replied: “It could, I hope it doesn’t. I hope it’s resolved to everyone’s satisfaction by that date, because that’s what people are expecting, but we’ll have to see what happens.”

Floridians “learned the hard way what happens when your votes aren’t counted and the candidate with fewer votes is declared the winner,” she told supporters. “The lesson of 2000 here in Florida is crystal clear: If any votes aren’t counted, the will of the people isn’t realized and our democracy is diminished.”

“The people who voted did nothing wrong and it would be wrong to punish you,” she added.

[Tellurian]

42. Watch the movie RECOUNT...

people in these two states are very happy at least ONE Dem candidate is willing to champion their cause. You do know Obama refused an offer of having a revote in Fl when there was still time and that he voluntarily took his name off the MI ballot to APPEASE Iowas voters.

[datopbanana]

40. You are incredibly dumb or really good at acting incredibly dumb

[susankh4]

41. Stoking and Stirring.

That's what *she* stands accused of.

Sounds familiar..... oh so familiar...

[Dinger]

43. Yup

Some more of this . . .

[flpoljunkie]

44. Bullsh*t! It's Hillary's delegate count she's worried about, not our votes!

And, yes, the Clintons have done nothing but try to stoke the anger of the "low information" voters for quite some time now. They should be ashamed, but, of course, they seem not to be capable of it.

Moreover, will half the Republicans voters in Florida stay home because only half their delegates were stripped? And what about those who did not vote because people like Hillary said their votes wouldn't count.

http://www.jabberwonk.com/flinker.cfm?cliid=zydzt

NHPR's Laura Knoy: "So, if you value the DNC calendar, why not just pull out of Michigan? Why not just say, Hey Michigan, I'm off the ballot?"

Hillary Clinton: "Well, you know, It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything."

How much higher? Some 1.75 million Democratic voters cast ballots in Florida and 600,000 voted in Michigan, even though the national party had already stripped the two states of their convention delegates for voting out of turn. Based on record Democratic turnout in other states, the report says, Florida would have been expected to turn out an additional 1.15 (million) voters and Michigan would have turned out another 715,000 voters.

Those voters “did not participate in their primaries but likely would have had they expected their vote to count,” the study concluded.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/03/19/disenfranchising-non-voters-in-florida-and-michigan/

[sendero]

45. That's exactly what he is trying to do..

... but it's not going to work. The Clinton mojo is no longer effective.

[Vinca]

47. So you're saying the Florida and Michigan voters will choose

McCain over the Democratic candidate because they're in a snit? They'll be willing to give up abortion rights, their healthcare and their sons and daughters to war because they were "done wrong?" They'll be willing to watch more jobs go overseas, more fat cats get tax cuts and . . . quite probably . . . the end of any hope for this country to rebound? I give them more credit than that.

[IsItJustMe]

48. The Republicans punished those states by only counting them as 50%. But don't let facts get in your

way.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

50. and THIS is exactly what will put McBush in the Oval Office for 100 more wars///Obama is very naive

[GihrenZabi]

52. How will they vote?

Democrats will still vote democratic. This is a tremendous non-issue. An entire half of my family lives in Florida and they could care less about this. They'll all vote for Obama in the GE.

The people speaking loudly do not represent the majority down there; but the people who don't give a damn aren't out whining so no one's hearing the majority perspective because you typically don't run around screaming "I don't give a damn!" :)

[SeaLyons]

53. K&R for truth....