Can we all now agree that Harold Ickes is a disgrace to the party?

[Ken Burch]

As soon as the right-wing decision he wanted didn't happen, Ickes immediately announced that HRC would fight on to the convention.

Clearly, this proves that Ickes doesn't care if we win in November.

Clearly, this proves that Ickes has no real loyalty to the party.

Can we all agree that he should be denounced for immediately trying to prevent the wounds from being healed?

[anonymous171]

1. He was trying to make a mockery of the process.

Even the HRC supporters were getting annoyed with him.

[jasmine621]

66. The Hillary campaign believes in what it is doing.

They know a bit about this country's politics and they know it is damn near impossible for Obama to win the Presidency in November. They truly want us to win. With Obama at the top of the tickect it really becomes less likely that the Dems will take the WH. If you think that Hillary haters are plentiful...you ain't seen nothing yet once Obama is wins the nomination. That's just the way it is my friends. With less than 50% of voters voting in party primaries, the others will be coming out of the wood work for the November election. mark my sorry words. I like Obama but it just ain't gonna happen.

[Binka]

70. Oh Bullshit

You are really stupid. Sorry you got dropped on your head as a baby.

[Fuzz]

2. He's fighting the wrong fight, at the wrong time, with the wrong people

for the wrong reasons.

So yeah.

[Binka]

68. How Is It That Ignored Is ALWAYS At The Top Of So Many Posts

Does this fucking vulture just sit 24/7 waiting to pounce? What a motherfucking loser. Or paid troll, same thing.

[Fuzz]

75. What does that mean?

[OzarkDem]

3. He seemed fine

Obama folks need to get over their childish and irrational obsession with Clinton's campaign advisors. You don't see Clinton supporters obsessing over Obama's crew, and they're certainly nothing to be proud of.

[mudesi]

9. I can't wait for your cookie (nm)

[shadowknows69]

20. Second that, I'm throwing a party

[Why Syzygy]

29. I want to be part of that.

[cliffordu]

64. YEP - I'm there....

[apocalypsehow]

73. Me and you both.

"The force is strong with this one..."

[SwampG8r]

74. can you pm me when it happens

i want to see it

[Ken Burch]

17. Obama would never have fought to the ugly end like this if the math were reversed.

Ickes is trying to keep us divided. He and you both know there's no legitimate way your candidate can win now. He clearly doesn't care if we take the White House back or not this year(apparently he'd like to keep it GOP until HRC tries again in '12) and he knows that keeping this going is hurting the whole party. You know it too.

Your candidate doesn't deserve this degree of loyalty. And there's nothing so loathsome about Obama that he deserves to have you campaign still trying to de legitimize him as nominee.

[DainBramaged]

18. Hillary's crew are a bunch of wrinkled old white men who are racists to boot

NICE TRY but you dont get a cookie.

[Blue_Roses]

19. Your "crew" was a disgrace to the Democratic party...I was embarrassed

for them--and you.

[Why Syzygy]

21. Maturity advice from a Clinton supporter. You lack credentials..

[DefenseLawyer]

22. Name names, Joe

Which of Obama's advisors do you have a beef with and why?

[sfam]

25. Clinton supporters don't obsess over Obama's folks???? Really???

You must be kidding, right? Any thing, any word, anywhere and anyway from an Obama supporter that can possibly be misconstrued by the Clinton campaign is ALWAYS used as a tool in their propaganda campaign.

[roguevalley]

43. you still here? God, I will be glad when you get your pizza.

[ladjf]

51. I wouldn't have thought that the garbage he spewed was "fine"

even had I been a loyal Clinton supporter. He was trying to hurt America today and it made me mad as hell.

[Jim Lane]

62. Would you provide some evidence about how mature and restrained the Clinton supporters have been?

"You don't see Clinton supporters obsessing over Obama's crew, and they're certainly nothing to be proud of."

Oh, really? I saw some obsessing about Samantha Power in the short time before her from the Obama campaign. I've seen nothing but obsessing about Jeremiah Wright.

Which members of Obama's "crew" have the Clinton supporters so nobly refrained from criticizing?

[vaberella]

69. Uh....

Is it me or wasn't it Ickes who voted against the seating of MI and FL (at all) in August when the DNC met? This hipocrisy is the problem.

[Median Democrat]

4. Can We Have A List of The Electeds Supporting Hillary Now?

I want to give to their opponents in the Democratic primaries going forward. In particular, any GOP apologists like Joe Lieberman?

[Ken Burch]

30. HolyWarJoe's been backing McCain since November.

If it weren't for that he'd STILL be allowed to be a super at Denver even though he's not a member of the Democratic Party anymore.

[FSogol]

33. No, Joe ran as an independent against Lamont. He lost his SD status then. n/t

[Jim Lane]

60. That's not clear

Lieberman remained a registered Democrat, he caucuses with the Democrats in the Senate, and the Senate website lists his party affiliation as "Independent Democrat". On the other hand, he won election by defeating the Democratic candidate. (He didn't run as an independent, but as the only candidate of the Connecticut for Lieberman Party -- a party he himself never joined.)

So, on these facts, is he a Democratic Senator for purposes of Rule 9.A concerning superdelegate selection? You could make a colorable argument either way. I'm sure the drafters of the rule never envisioned something like Lieberman's situation, so it's not surprising that the application of the rule to this facts is a bit nebulous. :)

The chairwoman of the Connecticut Democratic Party thought that Lieberman was entitled to superdelegate status until he lost it by endorsing McCain (bringing himself withing the Zell Miller rule, adopted after 2004). If he hadn't endorsed McCain, the issue might have been brought to the Credentials Committee.

Good riddance, Joe. You and Zell deserve each other.

[Jim Lane]

72. Here's Wikipedia's list of superdelegates indicating whom they've endorsed

The list won't give you all the electeds supporting Clinton -- only the Senators, Representatives, and Governors. With those limitations, it's a complete list of superdelegates, alpha by last name, also indicating the person's elected office or party position, and conveniently color-coded to help you recognize quickly who's endorsed whom.

I originally wrote that it didn't include Florida and Michigan elected officials. I was wrong, though. The list has just been updated to included them, based on the RBC action on Saturday. The endorsement information as to some of those folks may not yet be up-to-date, though.

[TahitiNut]

5. His hypocrisy was too thick to even cut with a knife.

The corruption is blatant.

[Tatiana]

38. And there's the word I've been looking for: CORRUPT.

Ickes showed just how corrupt he was. It was a good thing for us to see and know.

[Ravy]

6. When is opposing the awarding of delegates to someone who was not

on the ballot a right wing decision? If so, what passed was an ultra-right wing motion.

[TahitiNut]

10. Q: Since when are 'delegates' awarded? A: When they're not elected?

Clue: The Michigan primary 'election' was a FUBAR ... void, invalid, and illegitimate. Any attempt to validate it, in any part, is an exercise in retroactive ELECTION FRAUD.

[MethuenProgressive]

11. It appeasr there is now an anti-Democracy wing of the Democratic Party.

We used to be the Party that wanted votes counted not that long ago...

[TahitiNut]

32. It's called the DLC.

:shrug:

[Ken Burch]

26. You can't honestly say it would be fair to give HRC the whole MI delegation, can you?

She was morally obligated to do what all the other candidates did and take her name off the ballot.

And the 69-59 split does accurately reflect the showing Obama would have made had he been on that ballot.

Giving her the whole delegation would be rewarding her for cheating.

[Ravy]

52. No.. not at all. I think they should have gone 73-55 with

Obama supporters being put (by agreement) into the 55 uncommitted slots. For a swing of four candidates, they left this as an issue that will continue to divide.

I just don't like the idea of the committee overriding the direct vote of the people. The fair remedy, in my view, was to leave them officially uncommitted, but let the Obama camp pick the delegates (because he shoudn't be penalized greatly for a rules committee screw up (going over the automatic penalty).

[Ken Burch]

54. Why would that make any difference? And why sweat four more Obama delegates

When it's already clear that HRC can't win the nom now?

She'd be just as out of contention if it was 73-55 as she would be if it were 69-59. Nothing that dramatic is going to happen to cause Obama to collapse, and the party wouldn't turn to HRC now if he did. She just wouldn't be considered acceptable after all the damage she's done.

[Ravy]

57. I guess that is exactly my point.

Why even give her the issue to make the threat to take it to Denver unnecessarily. They should have given her that if nothing other than the spirit of unity.

[ekwhite]

61. The point is, she wanted 73-55

with the 55 remaining as uncommitted delegates. That was clearly unfair. She lost out on Michigan because she did not propose a solution that could reasonably be called fair. The 69-59 split was the compromise proposed by the Michigan delegation - it became the default number because the numbers proposed by both Obama and Clinton were unrealistic.

[Ken Burch]

65. Oh, I see what you're saying. Well, probably she'll decide in the end that it's not worth it

for only four delegates. At least that's what a sane second-place campaign would do at this point.

[dansolo]

55. I actually agree with you on this

Even though I support Obama, I wasn't entirely comfortable with the compromise split. It should have been either 73-55, or 64-64.

[gateley]

7. It's hard to buy his argument about honoring all the voters,

but he wasn't concerned for the voters whose candidate's name wasn't on the ballot and who voted "uncommitted" instead.

It has to play both ways.

He's an asshole. I'd never seen him before -- Blitzer said it was "vintage Ickes".

[Carolina]

42. hell, he wasn't concerned about any MI or FL voters

and neither was thatbitch Hi-liar-y until they didn't have the nomination wrapped up in Feb 5th.

They were for the rules before they were against them. They even acknowledged in video and audioclips that they knew the FL and MI results wouldn't count.

Liars, thieves, rat fucking bastards. And yes, HILLARY IS A BITCH with her authorization to take it to the credentials committee.

SDs, please SHUT HER DOWN NOW!!

[99th_Monkey]

8. It was esp. sickening when the Chair had finally quieted the screamers, then Ickes deliberately

whipped them up again with his enflamatory rhetoric. very disgusting behavior by both Ickes and the screamers.

[BzaDem]

12. You really don't get it.

These kinds of "can we all now agree that ...." posts are pointless in GDP. There is so much animosity here towards Clinton, Clinton supporters, and all things Clinton, to the point where many Clinton supporters that agree with your post wouldn't openly say so. If there actually were respectful discussion here, you would get many productive responses. But when 90% of a forum supporters the opposing candidate, and a significant percentage of that *hate* their candidate, many Clinton supporters are not about to concede an inch.

[Ken Burch]

31. This wasn't an attack on ALL THINGS Clinton.

This was a comment on one HRC supporter, one person who, even though there was NO good reason for him to do so, stirred up the guano and fought to keep us divided when the DNC had already made a fair and just decision.

Ickes clearly doesn't want a Democratic victory this year. He knows HRC isn't going to be nominated, but he's still trying to destroy the person we ARE going to nominate. A guy who does this doesn't give a damn about our party.

HRC people are better people than this. They deserved a more dignified representative in this fight. Ickes shamed the HRC campaign today, and you need to accept that.

[BzaDem]

36. I'm not saying you are attacking anyone here.

I'm not saying you are attacking all things Clinton. I am just saying that in this environment, you shouldn't expect a lot of Hillary supporters to jump in and say that they agree with you, even if you are right in the end (and even if they know it).

[Raine]

13. I'll say, what an EMBARASSMENT

:blush: I can just imagine the RW commercials using his ranting hissy fit, shame on him. :-(

[Blue_Roses]

14. he's a fucking jerk with really bad hair!

[TexasObserver]

15. another guy that outlived his usefulness by 20 years

[Median Democrat]

16. Is Harold Ickles Working On Any Other Campaigns?

I just want to know which elected I need to contribute against in the Democratic primaries. Harold Ickles is off the list.

[Honeycombe8]

23. Actually, he "reserved the right" to take to credentials committee. But his 'tude was....

bad, to put it mildly. I could imagine him on a Little League ball field spitting and fuming because the umpire called one of his team member's hits as a foul instead of a homerun, because the ball fell out of bounds.

He was surly and petty. Not the sort of person I want to have any sort of influence in the White House.

[gaiilonfong]

24. Ickes is a DINOSAUR and DLC HACK

GOOD RIDDANCE leave the party and take the other loser wid'ya

[FightingIrish]

27. Power is addictive and we saw a power junkie

watching his fix slipping away.

[cliffordu]

71. DING DING DING We have a winner!!! Exactly right.

[ErinBerin84]

28. that was quite a performance he put in.

Loved the response of "A COLLEAGUE of mine has selective amnesia. I have been hearing some propaganda from ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES".

[Coexist]

34. yeah

[Aloha Spirit]

35. Disagree, he was representing his candidate as best he could, which was his right.

He completely went along with the Florida decision, and frankly, I thought the Michigan decision was overkill.
I don't like him or agree with the way he presented his case or think he's a good person, but he's still a Democrat.

[babylonsister]

63. Why was the MI decision overkill? nt

[Carolina]

37. and so is Hi-liar-y

After all, he speaks for HER.

[yourguide]

39. It's outrageous.

Even more outrageous is the fact that the truly fair resolution to MI would have been a 50/50 split...this resolution actually nets delegates for her and they are still fighting it.

[RNdaSilva]

40. Agree...

but representative of one of the ex-candidate's camp.

It is over! Officially Tuesday night.

[blonndee]

41. I think we can agree that he represents his candidate perfectly.

[AZBlue]

45. I agree with that!

[IsItJustMe]

58. Yes he did. The fake outrage, the self righteousness, the victim hood, the intellectual dishonesty

of his arguments, and the old school Republican like tactics were very representative and the epitome of Hillary Clinton's campaign.

[Zachstar]

44. I agree

[genna]

46. A disgraceful presentation with his obvious affirmative action and hijacked tags

He is banal, pedantic imbecile.

[Medusa]

47. Not as big of a disgrace as Hillary is.

[PretzelWarrior]

48. yes. I never liked him.

he should be ostracized and be given no positions in the administration or national party level.

[Occam Bandage]

49. The day she drops is the day his paycheck stops.

[ladjf]

50. He is worse than that. He's up their with Bush and his cronies

when it comes to trying to vandalize America.

[Mimosa]

53. Clearly, this proves that Ickes doesn't care if we win in November.

Ken Burch, there's nobody creepier than ICKY!

[AtomicKitten]

56. Yes we can.

[NC_Nurse]

59. Yes, definitely. He's a jerk.

[apocalypsehow]

67. Agree 100%. K & R.

[dems_rightnow]

76. No, we can't agree on that....

He's a complete ass. I'll agree with that.

Beyond that, the things you describe were him doing what he was told to do by the person he supports. Harold Ickes in no way has the ability to take it to the convention, nor would he suggest they'd do so without the express approval of Hillary Clinton.

[TexasObserver]

77. YES, WE CAN!!

Yes, we can agree that Harold Ickes is a disgrace to the party. And by "we," I mean all of us I don't have on ignore.

[Hepburn]

78. No....

...he is a disgrace to the human race, IMO. :hi:

[GoesTo11]

79. No, he's a loyal Republican

[ecdab]

80. His time has come and gone - he disgraces himself and Hillary.