Temporarily stepping outside the Unity Bubble to VENT as an OBAMA SUPPORTER...

[Tatiana]

I respect Hillary Clinton's candidacy.

I respect what her husband did for our party.

Their time is over. They can be graceful about stepping down or they can be nudged forcefully. But the Clintonian, DLC-type, corporate-controlled leadership of the Democratic party is becoming a thing of the past.

Thank God.

I watched that shameful spectacle of Hillary supporters disturb the proceedings numerous times, even when asked not to BY MEMBERS OF THEIR OWN SIDE. These people wanted to should "Denver!" and "McCain!" Leave then. Seriously. Take your fucking marbles and GO.

I'm starting to believe these people aren't true Democrats at all. They are Dixiecrats in the kindest, most favorable light. I have worked my ass off registering voters in three states. I have donated to both Sen. Obama's Presidential campaign as well as the DNC and two Democratic candidates for Senate. This is what most Obama supporters are doing. They are putting the party first. They are replenishing our national voter database with updated information. They are pounding the pavement, trying to get out the vote and registering a record number of voters across this country.

Oh yeah. And those hippie, commmie, latte sipping limousine liberals? Well they have been doing the heavy lifting. Confronting evil administration officials like Condoleeza Rice. Protesting this Iraq war. It was at an anti-war rally, as a matter of fact, that I first heard Sen. Obama give a speech.

Cause see, that's the sort of thing I protest. I protest immoral and illegal WARS. I protest WARRANTLESS WIRETAPPING. I protest Bush coming to my damn city and having the nerve to walk in our St. Patrick's Day parade. I protest CRIMINAL pRESIDENTS.

That's where my heart lies. With the downtrodden and the poor and the unprivileged and helping out my fellow neighbors. That's what I care about. But it's clear that a certain segment that has set up camp in this party doesn't care too much about those things. So, we have a dilemma. Are we going to call ourselves the party of Roosevelt and Kennedy... are we going to continue to embrace the intent and ideals behind initiatives like the New Deal? Or are we going to put the same people back in power that paved the way for the bullshit we're in now?

That's the choice. To those who want the latter, all I have to say is I'll see you in Denver and if you choose to vote for McCain or join the Republican party... so be it. Good riddance. Because you never gave a shit about your fellow man or your fellow neighbor anyway.

[woolldog]

1. Hillary supporters are a cult of personality.

Plain and simple. They put her above god, country, and the Democratic party. It's disgraceful, as far as I'm concerned.

[Lerkfish]

3. the sad thing is this was an ORGANIZED protest under SANCTION of Ickes and HIllary

think about that for a moment. Really think about it.

[SlipperySlope]

27. The protest needed to be orchistrated to show "support"

It is all mapped out as part of the plan leading to Denver in August.

[Cha]

41. As usual they made a grave error of judgement.

A "show of support" would have been a classy protest with strong women showing support with dignity..alas, that's not the hilarys.

[rucky]

99. The pattern with her campagin mistakes all come from one

underlying assumption:

Democratic voters are as dumb/lazy/gullible as Republican voters.

We're not.

[Cha]

173. The bilarys must be stuck in some kind

of admiring timewarp when the goperves staged their 2000 coup.

[regnaD kciN]

78. I think quite a few of those "Hillary supporters"...

...were really Republicans looking to stir up trouble. Remember Florida's "yuppie riot" during the 2000 recount?

I'm thinking particularly of those "supporters" who kept on disrupting the meeting when the real Clinton backers were telling them to sit down and stop making noise...and especially those who were proclaiming they'd vote for McCain in November. Odds are, they were going to vote for McCain no matter who the Democratic nominee was...because they're on his payroll.

[nankerphelge]

135. Yes...

if you will vote for McCain over Obama, you are a republican plain and simple.

[helderheid]

133. really?? I didn't know that.

[Vote4Change]

169. I thought about it . . .

. . . for a moment. Then I hurled!!

Disgusting!

[Tatiana]

4. I was simply appalled at their conduct.

It's like family members acting piss drunk foolish in front of the entire nation.

I hope they come to their senses and soon.

[Shakespeare]

6. Same here, and well said on the OP.

I'm still stunned at their repeated outbursts.

[JoFerret]

89. The self righteousness

on this thread would be entertaining if it were not so narrow and mean spirited.

[MyNameGoesHere]

94. yes it's despicable when people are full of emotion.

You think Obama will send those people away to re-education camps. Those people deserve to be shunned and put away. The nerve of them acting that way in America! Come on give me a give shout of unity, hope and change. But only as long as it meets the guidelines of the "true" Democratic party. All other lesser democrats must be sent to the camps immediately.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

113. don't have a dog in this fight

in that I'm a Kucinich supporter who long ago pledged to vote for the Democratic nominee, even though their ideology would be far different than mine. That's what Democrats do--fight for their candidate in the primaries, and then get behind the nominee. That's what I don't get about the "McCain" outbursts--are you saying that acting this way is an acceptable way for Democrats to act?

[MyNameGoesHere]

139. I am sorry i can't find the manual

for acceptable way for democrats to act.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

142. Well, in my book

someone calling themselves a Democrat who votes for a Republican isn't a Democrat. Don't think it takes a manual to tell you that.

[cui bono]

155. Well you seem to be alive as part of the human race. Did you get a manual for that?

[MyNameGoesHere]

158. One is a choice the other isn't doh. n/t

[cui bono]

161. What does that have to do with manuals?

[Vote4Change]

170. LibFromWV???

"Lib"... I doubt it. "Libs" don't disrespect the Democratic party like those disruptive idiots did. "Libs" would embrace the unifying proposals that the state Democratic leaders of Florida and Michigan proposed instead of disrupting the process of making a fair determination in order to whine on behalf of their (defeated) candidate. Furthermore, "Libs" don't vote for McLame!

"FromWV"... I guess that about says it all. I rest my case.

[populistdriven]

5. cult?

[woolldog]

9. Clinton, God, and Guns. Yeeeeeehaaaaaaaw!!!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

26. DON'T FORGET GAYS!!!! n/t

[Hoof Hearted]

57. Yep. God forbid the homphobic Obots speak up for human/civil rights for gays.

You should be so proud of yourselves.

[Maat]

61. Don't you be calling me 'homophobic!'

I've worked zealously for GLBT-rights FOR DECADES - even before Billary got behind DOMA and DADT; and, no, passage of DOMA did NOT ward off a Constitutional amendment. There was NO chance, given the requirements, of such a passage.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

77. You love to toss out the disparaging labels. You are transparent.

Can't wait until you are forced back to the snake pit you originated from.

[MNBrewer]

92. Sigh...

one more time. BOTH candidates are essentially the same on gay rights issues. Neither believes in gay marriage equality. Hillary thinks DOMA would be just peachy if one section were repealed. Obama wants to repeal the whole thing. So, in my book, Obama has the edge over Hillary on gay rights.

[Creideiki]

112. So you're saying we really aren't welcome in the Democratic party now?

Okay, guess we can take our 7% of the potential popular vote and sit back and eat popcorn on the sidelines.

[Qutzupalotl]

143. No, your criticism is welcome

since that's what makes democracy work. Neither candidate would stand in the way of a popular wave of equality coming from the states. And it is coming, as Massachusetts and California are showing. But some regions are more resistant to evolving than others. So keep pointing out the obvious inequality, and eventually it will sink in everywhere, or at least enough to become settled law.

[Creideiki]

160. So the potential candidate for the Democratic Party

benefits from inequality toward people like him and it takes the Federal courts to really straighten it out, but we should wait until "eventually" it's popular enough for other people to decide, say, that my relationships are the same value as theirs? When do I get to vote on other peoples' relationships, because I've known some straight marriages that were fuh-hucked up.

[Qutzupalotl]

171. I didn't say to wait, I said continue speaking out.

I also fail to see how Obama benefits from inequality anywhere.

[natrat]

121. Yea but the not so smart "militant feminists" see only gender, every thing else matters not

[Damian the LHP]

146. You're out of arguments, aren't you?

All smear, no substance. You'd fit right in at Fixed News.

[FedUp_Queer]

147. EXCUSE ME!!!

As a gay man, let me educate you. Their stances on gay issues (DOMA, UAFA, DADT, ENDA) are identical except for one thing...Hillary is not for full repeal of DOMA, Obama is. Second, Obama talks about gay people in forums other than gay forums. You will never hear Hillary talk about LGBT folks other than in an LGBT forum. When my candidate, Edwards, dropped out of the race, there were a couple of things I looked at for whom I would support: the Iraq War; LGBT issues; and health care. Obama won on the war issue and the LGBT issues, Hillary won on health care.

And really...save the McClurkin allusion. Obama took a lot of heat when he went to MLK, Jr.'s church on MLK day and talked about gays in the context of civil rights. (http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Obama_urges_unity_in_rousing_speech_01202008.html)

I get so sick and tired of people who tout the Clintons as champions of LGBT Rights...Bill gave us DOMA (and ran campaign ads in the 1996 campaign in the south saying he'd "preserved" traditional marriage) and DADT. Great, he spoke at an HRC dinner. She marches in the Pride Parade in New York (so did Giuliani, Bloomberg, Nadler, Shumer, and a slew of others). Yes, Bill, by executive order, added sexual orientation as a protected status to the civil service employment practices at OMB (at least I think he did). However, when it came time to put has ass on the line for LGBT people...he failed, and she was right there along with him.

Frankly, the only candidates who were worth shit on LGBT rights were Kucinich and Gravel, and we see where they are, but in choosing the remaining two, Obama is just better, and is more comfortable talking about LGBT issues and LGBT people before non-LGBT audiences.

[beac]

148. Thanks for providing the detail on this FedUp...

I hope we are nearing the end of this shameful period of discrimination in our country. Please know that there are A LOT of us straight, married folks who want (and are working) to see that everyone shares the same rights. Love is love, period.

[Frisbee]

30. maybe, maybe not...

but moran, no doubt about it.

[roguevalley]

13. its idolatry. some of these people have personalities that identify

with persecution and truly feel they are standing up for downtrodden womanhood. they are, some of them projecting their own traumas onto hillary as Joan of arc, who is being tossed onto the pyre. they are asses, stupid delusional asses. Fuck them.

[woolldog]

17. Example of what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KACQuZVAE3s

[Dystopian]

81. thanks for the link...

omg....that was creepy.:scared:


peace~

[DeeDeeNY]

96. Chilling and scary

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

110. Holy shit!

:scared:

[Diane R]

63. I think you are exactly right about that. Some of these are people who are just chronically angry.

[mhoran]

28. Agreed

Shameful and disgusting.

[JoFerret]

87. Amusing that you

could not be more original in your desire to condemn those who had a different view than yours.

What's your plan for democratic victory in November?

[MNBrewer]

93. vote for the democrat, naturally.

what's YOUR plan?

[JoFerret]

95. So - your one vote

will do it.
Gosh!

[DrZeeLit]

98. Isn't that the idea behind "democracy," or did Memorial Day mean nothing?

[JoFerret]

106. Memorial Day?

Is about democracy? Is that what you think?

[DrZeeLit]

162. Yes, Memorial Day is about the men and women who have died so that you and I have the right to vote.

And for me that also means those in my family who have served, lived through wars, and came home to build strong communities: my great great grandfather in the Civil War, my grandfather in WWI, and my father in WWII.

Your cynicism is sad.
Yes, Memorial Day here in the USA is about those who served and died so that we remain a free and democratic nation.

[psychmommy]

130. and mine. i am voting for obama.

so our votes cancel out you and harriet.

[ExPatLeftist]

145. The poster asked for YOUR PLAN for victory in November.

Stop being evasive and answer the question.

[JTFrog]

100. "I made a conscious decision to place my Vote For Hillary button on my altar."

Wtf is that? I'm supposed to find some way to relate to that kind of batshit crazy shit and pander to it? I mean these folks are seriously worshiping a woman who voted for IWR, Kyl-Lieberman, voted no to banning cluster bombs AND they are calling her the goddess of peace. A woman who has crossed every ethical line a politician has ever had to face and never fails to find a new low.

Everyday is opposite day in HillaryWorld.

I've seen enough batshit crazy warmongering to last a lifetime so you better believe I'm gonna speak out against it. We underestimated the power of batshit crazy and cognitive dissonance four years ago and eight years ago. Not this time. The whole world is hearing us now.

If you don't know what the plan is, then you obviously haven't been paying attention. For every petulant Hillary supporter who tries to hold the party hostage, we've already recruited half a dozen fresh faced democrats who are picking up the slack. Record number new registered democrats. Record number donors. Record number of volunteers. Record numbers attending political rallies. Record numbers turning out to vote.

I'm pretty confident that we the people are going to be taking a major step in taking our government back in January, 2009 with President Obama at the helm.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

116. Asking every Democrat to vote for the Democratic nominee

and to work hard to get Democrats elected at all levels. This can be done via monetary contributions or volunteering time or both. If you don't like Obama, then for heaven's sake, work to get your local Democrat elected sheriff, or to the state legislature or to Congress. To be a true victory, it should be a victory across the board. My candidate, who I still think is far superior to either Obama or Clinton, dropped out long ago. I did not stand up and shout that I was going to vote for a candidate from another party. I didn't stomp my feet and refuse to support Democrats. I changed my focus to down ticket. And I made a public pledge that I would vote for the Democratic nominee for President, whoever that turned out to be. I don't understand why Clinton supporters couldn't do the same thing I've been doing.

[Kajsa]

140. Thank you, Ayeshahaqqiqa!

I admire your integrity and
tenacity.

You are a great example for all of us!

:pals:

[rebel with a cause]

151. Different views is one thing

Different sense of right and wrong is something else. If you agree with Ms Christian then I would say that I won't miss you when you are gone. Sorry, but I don't like people like her. I have had to deal with plenty of them in my lifetime and right now I could care less what she, and those like her feel or what they do. I would have to see that woman go on national tv and apoligize for her behavior and admit she over reacted and was wrong for me to ever consider her a member of my group.

If you are only a rational person that supports Hillary in the same way I support Barack, then I say so be it. You can have your opinion and I can have mine, but sooner or later you will have to admit that Hillary has lost this race. Whether you do it appropriately or you act like Ms Christian will determine how I, and other DUers react to you.

Edited to finish a sentence.

[aquart]

136. All you can do is repeat what's commonly said about Obama for Hillary?

Is this a schoolyard? Are you twelve? Is there one original thought, one conclusion you have come to ON YOUR OWN?

As for unity, those who support Hillary Clinton for so many reasons, have been insulted beyond reasonable belief. And all you can think to do is continue the insults.

Well, aren't you a fine and worthy generation. What great changes you will bring.

But let's get real here. We know which is the generation of spoiled brats who will sit home holding their breath till they turn blue (and shouting conspiracy at the same time--a masterful feat)if they don't get their way.

Why are you so frightened of democratic process? Could it have to do with preferring a comfortable dictatorship with lots of cheering and buzzwords to the actual hard fucking work that is democracy?

Democracy is based on compromise and majority rule. What you want is clearly something else.

[woolldog]

137. bla bla bla

[sunnystarr]

166. Democracy??? You need an education ... this is a REPUBLIC

We don't vote for candidates directly at all and never have. In a primary we are voting for delegates and in a GE we are are voting for electors who vote for the winner of the popular vote but are not required, in many cases, to do so.

In a democracy the people vote and the winner is directly elected by the popular vote.

Voting in a primary is relative new and started in my lifetime. Before that the parties selected their candidates. The national parties make their rules. Primaries aren't a constitutional right on either a state or federal level. In fact there is nothing in the constitution that ensures us the right to vote.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

167. "Well, aren't you a fine and worthy generation."

Aha. Now I understand things a bit more.

And if you are wondering: I am 55.

[Maraya1969]

157. I think a distinction needs to be made and that is not all Hillary supporters

are so egregious, it is the Hillary supporters who have hung on when the rest have left to support their party, the Democratic party.

Plenty of people on this board were Hillary supporters but as time went by and they realized that it would be better to put their energies behind Obama and they did.

It is the few who want to fight even when they know that for Hillary to get the nomination now there would have to be cheating and illegal maneuvers just like their was cheating and illegal maneuvers that got bush into office.

I'm sure most people realize this but I just wanted to re-iterate that distinction.

[tishaLA]

2. It is time to get down to business now

and go beat McCain. I'm not going to dwell on what I see as Sen Clinton's, or her supporters', shortcomings.

[Hippo_Tron]

7. Honstly I'm mostly pissed at Carl Levin and John and Debbie Dingell

This entire shitstorm was caused because they want presidential candidates to come to Detroit every four years and pledge not to raise emission standards just like they go to Iowa and pledge to continue subsidizing ethanol. Pandering isn't solved by more pandering and global warming is far more hazardous to our nation's future than unemployment in Detroit.

[Tatiana]

10. I thought, at least, Levin stepped back from his earlier divisive rhetoric.

I don't know if it was John Conyers being in the room or what, but he was definitely more conciliatory in his remarks. He made his case and acknowledged that they did, indeed, fuck up.

So at least he took responsibility for his part in the fuck up and gave us a reason for why he fucked things up that did make some sense. Unlike the Florida contingent.

[Hippo_Tron]

11. Agreed, but John and Debbie Dingell not so much

If I were Speaker of the House, John Dingell would lose his committee chairmanship and be relegated to the back benches.

[Tatiana]

12. Oh I agree. Dingell disappointed and missed a genuine opportunity for unity. n/t

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

45. Levin tried same shit in 04, McAuliffe warned him off

Back then, Terry McAuliffe told Levin not to even think
about moving Michigan up, that MI's delegates would NOT be credentialed.

NOT.

But what a difference 4 years make.

[truedelphi]

66. In a sense I agree, but it is a crazy world when we are mis-educated

Automobiles can run on anything. It doesn't need to be oil.

Or even electricity.

And if it is oil or gasoline, than the mileage can be upped. Significantly.

There was a car that someone purchased last week. It had been worked on by young mechanics at a trade school or college in the 1970's and souped up so that it could obtain something like 369 miles to the gallon.

You would think the Powers that be in Detroit would have bought this car, and studied it.

But No. Detroit was not interested. So this car, while possessing a most amazing technology, has just sat around for the last thirty years.

Part of what it did was to vaporize the gasoline before using it for the engine's compression chambers.

Luckily a gentleman did buy it and he plans to tinker with it and figure out what took place with it so that it could get such good mileage. Some of its renovations aren't practical - he has already stated that vaporizing the gasoline might not be practical. But the other elements might be practical and worthwhile and something a totally new type of vehicle could utilize.

If I could get 369 miles to the gallon I would only need about 2 and a half gallons of gasoline a month.

[Prophet 451]

74. Fully agreed

It's possible to run a car on anything which combusts. I know for a fact that there have been prototypes built which run on hydrogen derived from simple tap water. Granted, inefficient and costly prototypes but if it's that or the planet, I'm willing to see my taxes subsidise development of that.

[blonndee]

8. K & R for REAL Democrats.

Well said. They can get on board or get the eff out of the party. And it's OUR party whether they like it or not. The DLCers and Dixiecrats can either evolve and come along for the ride or move on.

[scarletwoman]

15. "The DLCers and Dixiecrats can either evolve or come along for the ride." Amen. (nt)

[blonndee]

16. Oops.

I meant "evolve AND come along for the ride or move on." Dangit. :blush: Sometimes I get a little too passionate and don't realize that what I typed doesn't match what I was thinking.

[scarletwoman]

25. S'okay, I got your drift.

:D

I don't know how many times I've typed something in passionate frenzy, only to find after I hit "post" that I've left out every third or fourth word in my opening sentence.

Common hazard, methinks.

Peace,
sw

[scarletwoman]

14. Nicely said. Rec'd. (nt)

[Blue_Roses]

18. you know, what gets me is

they wonder why people speak so harshly about them and Hillary. It's like they feel "entitled" because of the name, "Clinton." I didn't see this in the beginning of this primary, but boy do I see it now.

Enough. Time for Hillary to go.

[Tatiana]

21. Absolutely. And the spoiled brat fat cats have taken their $$$ and gone home.

It is the Obama/Edwards wing of the party that is doing the heavy lifting. We're registering the voters. We're going door to door. We're watching the polls. We're updating the party databases and expanding the party infrastructure. Obama volunteers are staffing the new DNC offices opening up in states like Montana and New Mexico and Idaho.

Our ultimate loyalty is to the party and to getting Democrats elected across the nation. So it is a slap in the face to see these selfish and disrespectful idiots making fools of themselves on national teevee when we could have used their support to push back against AT&T on warrantless wiretapping or preventing this country from invading Iraq.

But the fact is they don't give a shit about anything except reveling in their imagined victimization.

I get that Clinton is reluctant to relinquish power. What I don't get is these people allowing themselves to be used like this.

[appleannie1]

19. I am a woman that remembers what I was doing when I heard

that JFK was shot. My brother drove a car in RFK's funeral procession. I fought for women's rights in the early days. I have always hoped that the day would come that a woman would be considered good enough to run for president. What I witnessed today was disheartening. Even the implication that somehow if someone does not vote for Hillary, they are voting against women in general, leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I did not vote for her in our primary and it had nothing to do with her sex, it had to do with who I think would be the better president. That, and only that, should be the motivation, not someone's gender. I think she is a very intelligent woman and that there should be a place for her in our government. IMO being president is not that position.

[Flaxbee]

62. Yes - the attitude you describe infuriates me ...

appleannie1 said: "Even the implication that somehow if someone does not vote for Hillary, they are voting against women in general, leaves a bad taste in my mouth."

Exactly! As if voting for McCain (or not voting) and thereby almost ensuring that Roe v. Wade goes by the wayside, or is severely limited, is voting for women. Holy shit. McCain is NOTHING if not a misogynist. And if McCain's pandering to the fundamentalist whackos doesn't convince these die-hard Hillary supporters that he won't immediately kowtow to the right's demands about Supreme Court nominee standards, then they are delusional, deranged, dangerous idiots.

[NC_Nurse]

20. I am SO glad I didn't watch that spectacle. I knew from the kind of stuff

that die-hard Hillary folks here say that it would be REALLY frustrating to watch the spinning and the
manipulation. I just don't need to let that sort of bullshit discourage me.

Like you, I have spent my time working to get Obama elected by a lot of the same methods. I don't care to engage
in these futile battles with people who refuse to be honest - with me or with themselves.

[hulka38]

22. Great post

[SaveAmerica]

23. My transition is complete, I've had it with the assinine comments made by the

majority of the Hillary people here. Back in the beginning I tried to mediate and tried to understand and tried to help explain why what Hillary - oh to heck with it, I'm tired of explaining because they don't care, they have blinders on, we've tried to be patient while the process continued naturally but she took advantage of our patience and did stuff that was progressively worse. I'm tired of it. I'm tired of her, I'm tired of her supporters who don't care about doing what's right. They just don't care.

[Tatiana]

24. THEY DON'T CARE. That is the point. Say it over and over again.

They really don't care about the things the Democratic party stands for.

At some point we are going to have to make a decision: continue to wait for people intent on sabotage or seek out others who will help the cause.

[TBF]

52. I so agree Tatiana. Evolve already or get out of the damned way. K&R.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

You really are upset about that 90%, aren't you?

lol

This post should get some kind of award for Most Wrong Assumptions Ever. Enjoy your stay at DU.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

46. The media didn't "engineer" Hillary's vote for the war, or her Tuzla lies

She ran a horrible campaign.

She acted badly.

She is not a feminist, a feminist would have ditched Bill 20 years ago.

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

51. AND she had a Potty-Mouth spokesman today

Anyone who can support the assing and helling and damning on national TV today by her official spokesperson should have their head examined.

Shamefully childish. I'm not sure which was worse, her supporters or Ickeys.

[truedelphi]

67. Safly, I figured that out about the Hillary over-supporters way back when

When I was first enthused abt Kucinich, and I couldn't mention his name or one of his programs without a Hillbot saying, "But if Hillary gets the nomination, you will vote for her in the GE, won't you."

It was so systematic and so cold - it had the feel of Manchurian candidate to it.

Like any time anyone in America typed out K-u-c-i-n-i-c-h, their internal nervous sytem hyped them into a mode whtere they could only type out "But if Hillary gets..."

If they did NOT do that as a response, their inner most gears split apart and they fell to the floor in little pieces.

[Mme. Defarge]

138. Exactly!

Before the primary started her campaigners had their talking points. It took me awhile to get it, though. At that point, she was, of course, "inevitable", so the meme for us doubters was, "no candidate's perfect, and surely you'll vote for her because about the supreme court?" It was all about twisting the arms of any dissenters to vote for her.

The talking point that really turned me off early on was that John Edwards should drop out because his wife had a terminal illness -- the implication was that anyone selfish enough to run in these circumstances did not have enough character to qualify as a presidential candidate. Oh how I wanted to counter with my concern about the character of someone who would remain in a sham marriage for political expediency! At any rate, I was SO relieved that Edwards didn't endorse her -- largely for this reason.

Obama, of course, was not a serious contender due to his obvious inexperience.

I finally realized that these were talking points when I began hearing them repeated practically word for word by Hillary's followers.

[rebel with a cause]

152. I know what you mean.

I was an Obama supporter from the beginning and I felt forced to leave the DU months ago because of the constant attacks I received. I left because I refused to attack back. I only came back recently and was surprised to see the tide had turned. Back then I tried not to say anything negative about any candidate, but now I say what I feel. Like Hillary said, if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. I did, now that the shoe is on the other foot.....

Sorry, I shouldn't feel this way, but I do.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[treblemaker]

31. "You all", eh?

It's crystal clear where your loyalties lie.
Not going to expend energy refuting the rest of that -- it's not worth it.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Genevieve]

34. Oh please, stop making stuff up.

You know you never went to college. :hi:

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cliffordu]

44. Blah de blah de blah blah blah. We got it, on to the next, please.

[dennysp]

58. Ummm.....Hillary Clinton was the one who called her supporters...

uneducated, white people who wouldn't vote for a black man. Where have YOU been?

[ruby slippers]

33. I took the Hillary pledge 26 minutes ago, but I can still bash the

Democratic Party for having such a head-shaking nomination. I support your candidate, but I really have to think long and hard about your Party and its representatives.....But, you guys and ladies are ok....

[BzaDem]

36. You should be careful labeling people.

Something tells me if you had the Democratic party you wanted, the party would have less than a quarter of the vote and would never win any election. You would have a bunch of like-minded people, but you would always be losing and complaining, and never winning. In order to win, the Democratic party must have people with widely varying backgrounds and views. Some are going to be more moderate than you are. Most of the people you are referring to are not going to vote for McCain in the end. Long primary fights brew hardened feelings. But posts like this don't help.

[Tatiana]

50. I was venting. Sorry. Spectacles like those staged today don't help either.

I am perfectly willing to work with moderates, conservatives, whomever is dedicated to increasing the Democratic majority in Congress.

This Presidential election is not the end-all-be-all. A Democratic President will not be able to accomplish much without a Democratic Congress. I support Obama, but I support a supermajority in Congress even more.

But like I said, there is a certain ugly segment that has set up camp in our party. We've seen the video that's gone viral. Our party is not a party of prejudiced people or sexists or racists. And I don't think I should have to bite my tongue for such people.

[casus belli]

37. I'm with you..there are many to who I would gladly say "Hit the road"

There are some Democrats who are sincerely disappointed at watching their candidate lose the nod. that's something I get. Boy do I ever. Who doesn't remember the disappointment the last two GEs? But, ultimately, the party is bigger than our own personal ambitions. It's our vehicle for change. It's our collective voice. you don't fix something by walking away from it, not that there was anything to fix - but if that's truly how they felt, then they should stay and fight to make sure these types of debacles don't happen again. Even if they just couldn't vote for Obama, there are other choices they could exercise as a protest vote without completely abandoning everything we stand for.

No, what these people want is to destroy the party from within out of narcissism and selfishness. That is something I can't stand idly by and allow. Need to take time out to grieve? The time is yours, we're here when you're ready. threaten to destroy what we have all worked for because you can't have your way? Hit the fucking road.

[Tatiana]

53. I agree completely.

Losing is hard. I cried for three straight days when Gore conceded. It HURT.

I went to D.C. just to protest that pResident.

I know what it's like to lose. I supported Wes Clark in '04. But bottom line was Kerry won the nomination and we had to get in line. I wasn't thrilled with Kerry at all, but I worked my ass off for him and quite honestly, the Kerry supporters were some of the nicest people I have ever met.

I do not understand this selfishness at all.

[mrs_p]

70. maybe it will just take some time

and some leadership by clinton. not very long ago i was super pissed at hillary (well, that seems like every day now, but this time i was really, really mad) and i voiced that i wouldn't vote for her if she stole the election. granted, i wasn't in front of cameras or trying to stop party proceedings, but i said it nonetheless. after a day or two i saw the error of my ways - maybe some of clinton's supporters will too, if given some time and a cool-down period.

[jazzjunkysue]

39. The bubble had to burst eventually. Obama's had it for weeks, now.

I have no pity for those delusional enough to let today be the big crushing day of reality.

This has been the reality for half the race.

Grow up and accept that Obama is a rock star and Hillary is hated by many on both sides of the isle.

[Spider Jerusalem]

42. Venting a bit myself:

I don't respect Hillary's candidacy; she's a fucking carpetbagger who ran for a safe Democratic Senate seat in a state she had no prior association with SOLELY as a stepping-stone to a White House bid. She had an arrogant sense of entitlement to the nomination that I for one find frankly disgusting; she believed in her own inevitability, and had NO strategy for the eventuality that she wouldn't have the nomination sewn up on Super Tuesday.

I don't respect what her husband did for the party, either, because he didn't really do much of anything. He won the White House twice, sure; at what cost? Triangulation, pandering, and running to the right on trade, welfare 'reform', the war on drugs, gay civil rights, and the list goes on. The Clinton years were god ones neither for the Democratic Party (look at what happened with Congress and governorships) nor for the progressive agenda.

For the Clintons, it's all about them, not about the party, not about the country. And thank Christ we'll be rid of them.

[truedelphi]

69. You say:

He won the White House twice, sure; at what cost? Triangulation, pandering, and running to the right on trade, welfare 'reform', the war on drugs, gay civil rights, and the list goes on. The Clinton years were god ones neither for the Democratic Party (look at what happened with Congress and governorships) nor for the progressive agenda.
###
I am now thinking that maybe it was all a setup all along. It sure smells funny that very little in the way of prograessive platform items were helped in any way. And the Clintons seemed oh so willing to fold every time the Repugs murmurred the slightest disapproval.

Even abortion was pretty much done away with - sure it was still legal, but under the eight years that Bill was in, abortion clinics became few and far between in some areas of the country.

[DrZeeLit]

101. Excellent. I've tried to put all that into words so many times. You nailed it!

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

43. Your last sentence

really sums it up nicely.

[TwilightGardener]

47. There's a Unity Bubble? Who else is in it? What are you guys doing in there?

[casus belli]

54. There's free beer. The Decemberists will be playing shortly.

Want in? :P

[TwilightGardener]

56. Yeah, that's how they lure you in, with free beer and munchies and weed.

And then they lock the doors and keep you up all night and brainwash you. No thanks!

[Tatiana]

59. Don't forget the free lattes! That's why I got in the bubble in the first place. n/t

[beac]

68. But they are only half-skim lattes!!

Fifty-percent of the milk is being disenfranchised!!

[Tatiana]

72. Hey, the penalty could have been ZERO percent.

You could be sipping on soy.

Be thankful for compromise ;)

[beac]

73. Be careful... you might get called a mis-soy-gynist.

;)

[casus belli]

85. LOL! Touche'. :)

[druidity33]

91. She'll drink Eden Soy though...

It's at least got religion!


:)

[DrZeeLit]

102. I'm in it for the free Armani, Gucci, and BMW's. I want me some of that action!

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

48. Thank YOU, Hillary has a lot to apologize for

Not only her rabid supporters who made a spectacle of themselves acting like six-year-olds.

More importantly Harold Potty-Mouth "ass" Ickeys who helled and damned his views to a national TV audience with, according to him at least, full permission from Hillary.

Yes, the spoiled brats can take their ball and go home if that is the way they feel.

But what a shameful representation for a supposed leader.

If Potty-Mouth Ickeys had been helling and damning and assing from behind the pulpit of Trinity Church the outcry from the Bots would be just beginning.

But then again rules were always for anyone but the Clintons.

[NanceGreggs]

49. WOW!!!

Tatiana! This is a FABULOUS piece!

:kick: :kick: :kick:

[Tatiana]

55. I was pissed. I'll be returning to my safe, earth-toned unity bubble shortly

But I really felt the need to call a certain group's bluff.

Want to leave? LEAVE. Buh-bye.

I have been walking through some of the reddest counties this country has. And you know what? If "we" (and by "we" I mean Democrats) can't find more of "us" (and by "us" I mean people who have had enough of the way the right-wing and the Washington establishment has fucked up this country) than "them" (and by "them" I mean Republicans), then God help us because we'd deserve to lose then.

We are dealing with a wide open country folks. The whole west and plains area is open to us. The midwest is ours. We need to get out of this 50+1 mentality that continually holds us hostage. True advocates for democracy and the pursuit of happiness for EVERYONE will get on board and help the cause to change course. The selfish can join Republican minority and see how good they had it with the Democrats.

[yellerpup]

117. 50+1 only insures nothing gets done

Let's go for the big numbers and see how 'working across the aisle' changes for the better. Excellent post, Tatiana! K&R!

[vaberella]

60. I have to say....

I sympathise with your views. I'm a Black female womanist and the reason why I could never abide feminism is because of the disregard (so many times) of minority women---this is in the historical struggle of womanhood.

This campaign just reminds me of a reflection of this. At times during this campaign the Hillary Clinton camp and the media has made me Black first and a woman second. When they speak of the woman's vote----I'm not the one counted, respected, seeked, or appreciated. I'm lumped as the other and would probably vote Obama. I felt so disenchanted with the Clinton camp it was disturbing to me, since I had her button before anyone else.

The actions of the women today at the DNC meeting shows again why I never felt welcomed or was even welcomed during the camp. I have to say race, sex, sexual preference, and so many others really weren't part of Obama's camp just unity. The actions today really just angered me, upset me and disgusted me.

For people to choose a man who said a chance of a "100 years war", who would probably reinstate the draft if he could. To choose a man who voted on against a bill to give to our veterans as teh least we can for them risking their lives. For a man who's anti-homosexual, anti-pro choice...I don't understand it. It says so much!! They'd sooner endorse a man like that because they're candidate may not be frontrunner. It's assinine and at the same time scares me.

[Flaxbee]

64. hi vaberella, and

welcome to du! :hi:

Yes, the same thing baffles me, too - how can ANYONE who claims to be a feminist be racist in their thinking, ASSUMING minority women will vote for Obama, or Richardson, or "Minority Male Candidate" rather than a woman. As if there were no thought involved in the decision, only tribalism (which, ironically, seems to be the way some of these rabid Hillary supporters are making their decisions - without considered thought, deciding only by tribalism). It is just appalling. And how ANYONE who claims to be a feminist would even consider voting for McCain, ushering in another 4 years of cuts to women's and children's programs internationally, as well as the continued marginalization of pretty much anyone who isn't a straight white male in this country, just boggles the mind.

I honestly never really thought about it much until now, but perhaps womanism is a much better label.

[Tatiana]

71. I am honored to welcome you to DU!

:hi:

I wish I could recommend your response. You articulate very succinctly what so many women of color like myself feel.

It is doubly hard to be a black female Democrat. If you support Obama, you are only doing so because he is black, in the opinion of many.

What people fail to realize is that black people don't just vote for candidates on the basis of race. We would not touch Condoleeza Rice with a 10-foot pole. Our disdain for Clarence "Uncle" Thomas is LEGENDARY. We would vote for the "D" over Colin Powell.

African-Americans, more than any other group, consistently vote their SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC INTERESTS. Period. That is why they voted for Clinton and Gore and Kerry. That is why they supported Hillary early on... because they thought she would best address their economic interests. But then they learned about Obama; they learned about the fiscal responsibility of his campaign; they learned that seniors making $40,000 or less under his plan would pay NO TAXES period. They saw an opportunity to do better under a potential Obama administration than they did under Bill Clinton's.

It is unconscionable, UNTHINKABLE, to even consider voting for someone who says his ideal Supreme Court Justice is Justice Alito. It is insanity to vote for someone who PROMISES to appoint justices that will overturn Roe v Wade. It is just plain nutty to vote for someone who calls his wife a c-nt and refers to other ethnic groups as "gooks."

I wonder if these women are willing to send THEIR OWN SONS AND DAUGHTERS AND GRANDSONS AND GRANDDAUGHTERS to fight in Iraq for 100 years.

[Raineyb]

159. Thank you for saying this

I've said it a few times on different threads but it seems not to sink in to some people's brains.

I have read so many posts where people accuse blacks of voting for Obama just because he's black, ignoring all evidence to the contrary. I have read posts where people accuse Obama of "playing the race card" when people discuss things that the Clintons have said that they found to be racist.

I have read posts where the poster accuses blacks of being fed the meme that the Clintons were racist as though we are a bunch of sheep who are led about like a bunch of brainless automatons. These posters act as though black people are so stupid that we can't discern whether or not something a person says is racist or offensive for ourselves. These posters accuse us of being mindless sheep while ignoring the fact that black people have consistently voted our social and economic interest.

Did black people vote for Bush twice? No. We've been voting for Democrats since the civil rights act had been passed.

I have never voted for a candidate just because he or she was black. I have never voted for a candidate just because she is female. My first choice was Edwards and when he suspended his campaign I voted for Obama because he was the only non-Clinton candidate left.

There are some things that I don't like about his positions, and his health care plan isn't true single-payer health care either. But I think that with him in office we have a better chance of getting it than with Clinton. When Edwards spoke I always heard "we", when Obama speaks I hear "we" when Clinton speaks I hear "I." I don't want another candidate who thinks it's all about him or her. We've had that nonsense for the last 8 years with Mr. "I'm the decider."

I will say this, this primary season has me seriously considering if I should continue to remain registered as a Democrat. There are far too many people who seem to be under the impression that getting 90+% of the black vote is fine as long as black people vote for the candidate they approve of. That is not the sign of people who respect their fellow Democrats, it's a plantation mentality that went out of style a long, long time ago and needs to stop. Now.

Regards

[HCE SuiGeneris]

83. Thanks for stating your viewpoint so well.

Glad you are here at DU. :thumbsup:

[genna]

90. I think it is my country right or wrong

This campaign just reminds me of a reflection of this. At times during this campaign the Hillary Clinton camp and the media has made me Black first and a woman second. When they speak of the woman's vote----I'm not the one counted, respected, seeked, or appreciated. I'm lumped as the other and would probably vote Obama. I felt so disenchanted with the Clinton camp it was disturbing to me, since I had her button before anyone else.

That is exactly how I felt.

It is hard to believe last year, a Republican co-worker asked/told me, "I am sure you are going to vote for Obama, right?"

I told him, "WHY BECAUSE HE'S BLACK? I WANT HILLARY. SHE WAITED LONG ENOUGH. Let Obama figure out women and understand what it takes to lead this country."


That was me. I wasn't necessarily brought over to Obama, I was forced. I just knew the Clintons understood what it meant to black, disdained, and marginalized. I got it over and above a racial solidarity calculation.


The more Hillary's team used caricatures of race to bring Obama to heel, the more discouraged I became. The first thing was the drug toking, drug dealer thing from the Sheehan. Then it was someone else who had to apologize for calling him either a druggie or unqualified.


I heard the underlying slap in an affirmative action stance. It was my sister who said I don't know, Edwards or Obama might be better. I had to ask her why. Then my attention focused elsewhere. I admit I loved what Edwards had to say about the cause of his life was helping poor people. What could be better than that? A New Deal that provides a net.


I still didn't know too much about Obama, but I went to Trinity in Chicago and saw their good works. I gave him a shot because I knew what social justice ministries they were about. I know how they take hardened felons and bring them to Christ. I know that they are talk tough to irresponsible fathers whose children strewn between a number of different mothers and relatives. They are uncompromisingly conservative when it comes to the faith.

I felt like I knew what Obama stood for because of that church. It will take me a while to separate my faith from his politics but I will make the transitions because it takes a coalition of people pressing forward to make our country better for all.


I had to sulk last night because the bitter sweet reality is in order to win, politicians have to compromise their backgrounds in order to lead everyone: the downtrodden, the malcontents, the under $50K conservative whose racial identity matters more than their economic interests and the war protesters. I just believe the Democratic party is my party because no one else makes sense.

[Tatiana]

122. Fantastic post. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. n/t

[tnlefty]

168. Welcome to DU, vaberella!

Thanks for this excellent post. :hi:

[muryan]

65. Glad to K&R with my 1000th post

very well done

[Faygo Kid]

120. Congrats! That's an impressive use of your post.

I probably used my 1,000th post on something like which was the best Star Trek episode.

Yours is better.

Live long and prosper.

[Madam Mossfern]

127. Mazel Tov!

on your 100th post and the k&r for a great OP
I'll add a K&R in honor of this auspicious occassion.

[Tatiana]

134. Thank you! Your support is greatly appreciated!

:hi:

[pnwmom]

75. Every time someone steps out of the Unity Bubble, it springs another leak. n/t

[AZ Criminal JD]

76. Obama supporters like Pelosi who took impeachment off the table

They really did "heavy lifting".

[democrank]

79. Bravo!

Regardless of the bullshit I`ve heard on my teevee, Obama and his supporters just pulled off a major upset. Grassroots Democrats actually got the best of the same Democratic machine that has all but changed the true nature of this party. Perhaps now there will be fewer memos from Al From about the Birkenstock-wearing anti war Democrats. It`s time for change. REAL CHANGE.

[VotesForWomen]

80. FYI, Obama is not "different;" you only think he is.

[MadBadger]

84. And Hillary doesnt really care about Florida and Michigan's right to vote.

You only think she does.

[FlaGranny]

103. You should change

your name to "VotesForBestCandidates", then you might get more respect. The name VotesForWomen reveals something about you that you might not want people to know. We other women who vote for, in our own private opinions, the best candidate, can't respect someone who will only vote for women. We realize that women are only half the world population. Many of us have sons and husbands whom we respect. We don't dislike men. We know that there should be a woman president when there is a woman we feel is best for the job, but we also know that a man could be the better candidate in any given election. We will vote for the best candidate.

[roseBudd]

108. FYI, Hillary is not "different;" you only think she is.

[Dystopian]

82. K&R.....

My heart is with yours...beautiful post.

"That's where my heart lies. With the downtrodden and the poor and the unprivileged and helping out my fellow neighbors. That's what I care about."


:loveya:

peace~

[Voltaire99]

86. I don't respect her politics or the record of her corporate-pleasing, war-making asshole husband.

And you really ought to stop pretending that you do, too.

It isn't about their "time" being over.

It's about their lousy center-right politics no longer having a death grip on the Democratic Party.

[Tatiana]

125. Well, that too. Heh.

I will say that I respect the fact that Bill Clinton, no matter how he sold out on issues like NAFTA and welfare "reform," also gave us FMLA and he finally broke through a string of Democratic losses in the Presidential contests.

I also respect that Hillary has put up with a good deal of sexism in her contest and that her campaign has really blazed a pathway for a much better female candidate to contend for the Presidency.

But yeah. I want the center-right politics to die a quick death. If we only had the chance to exhibit what progressive governance looks like, the majority of citizens would never tolerate right-wing rule again. That is why there is such a fight to keep the masses brainwashed and subject to one-party rule.

[Honeycombe8]

88. Spot on, Tatiana. I couldn't have said it better myself. It was childish, petty, disrespectful.nt

[DrZeeLit]

97. Agreed. Those screaming banshees--have they ever walked a precinct? licked envelopes?

made calls all day? have they driven old folks to the polls?

I seriously doubt it.
I'm not saying many HRC supporters didn't do all those things. But I'll bet those people are not the contorted, mean-spirited face and voices we watched on the television.

So, I agree. Good riddance. If they, and sorry to say mostly women, if they can scream that they will vote for McCain, they've never believed in reproductive rights, equal pay rights, or any other civil right. They've never sat up all night with a best friend who was raped and decided to have an abortion. They've never been denied a promotion based on their gender or sexual preference.

Because, my friends (um...sarcasm).... Because, my friends, if they had hearts, first of all they wouldn't comport themselves the way they did, and secondly, they would KNOW... just plain KNOW from the tips of their toes, that this election is for the soul of the country -- for the Supreme Court. And if the Democratic candidate loses, we are all in deep, deep trouble.

And yes, I will blame Hillary Clinton and her DLC cronies. For my grand-daughter's lifetime. Forever.

[Tatiana]

131. Preach it. I am willing to bet the the Hillary supporters that have done the things you mention

(meaning the hard grassroots labor) will actually work for the nominee. When you get out there and you speak with the people who have lost their homes, who have been waiting for months to get into the VA to have knee surgeries and the like... you understand that this upcoming election is about more than "you." It's about the people in this country who WILL NOT SURVIVE another 4 years of Bush policies.

It is about the Iraqi civilians who just want to live in a peace and not die.

It is literally a life or death choice between the Democrat and the Republican.

Anyone who votes for the Republican is voting for death, in my opinion. I cannot reconcile that with the values of a progressive or Democrat. I just can't.

[Irishonly]

104. Great Post

It's time for the democratic party to get back to its roots.

[Guava Jelly]

105. Thank you

eom

[futureliveshere]

107. Beautifully written... Thanks for sharing..K&R

[windoe]

109. K & R!!!! You just made the unity bubble much bigger, thanks.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

111. Those of us who supported Kucinich, Edwards, et al

have not been twiddling their thumbs, either. Many have contributed time and money to downticket races while we wait and see who gets the Democratic nod for the top of the ticket. I don't recall hearing any supporter of Kucinich, Edwards, etc, say that they would vote McCain when Dennis dropped out of the Presidential race. And this is why the actions of those Clinton supporters puzzle me greatly.

[Tatiana]

132. Oh I agree. I started out with Edwards and voted for him in the primary.

In fact, I donated to his campaign the day before he dropped out.

So I know what pain and disappointment is.

But the supporters of Kucinich and Edwards know what is at stake here and have acted accordingly. There is a REASON Dennis told his people to go caucus with Obama in Iowa if he could not meet the threshold. Dennis knows what is at stake. That is what you call LEADERSHIP. And, unfortunately, Clinton has preyed upon the emotions of distraught supporters and not exhibited the leadership she could have in an effort to manipulate these people.

That is awful on her part. But at some point, these people need to say, I am putting my country and my fellow men and women above my personal preferences.

Many Clinton supporters have done this and I applaud and sincerely thank them. However, a significant number appear to actually be thinking about voting for John Sidney McCain. This sentiment is REAL, in my opinion. It has been captured on videotape numerous times and this similar viewpoint is also expressed on this very board, not by trolls or newly-registered DUers, but by people WHO HAVE BEEN HERE SINCE 2001.

That is disturbing and that segment of the population is who I was addressing. Not those who realize what is at stake and will vote responsibly.

[K Gardner]

114. My feelings exactly. K&R

[Owl]

115. K&R

[mystieus]

118. Well said, Tatiana

[Hope And Change]

119. K & R!

:kick:

[graywarrior]

123. .

:toast:

[Lugnut]

124. K&R n/t

[EmeraldCityGrl]

126. K&R n/t

[liberaldem4ever]

128. K&R

:kick:

[Buzz Clik]

129. "I'm starting to believe these people aren't true Democrats at all." I know what you mean.

[David Zephyr]

141. Tatiana, the circus like spectacle that the Clintons created on national television was shameful.

Dixiecrats? Hey, I'm the guy who calls him William Jefferson Davis Clinton. And he still has not apologized for the overt racism he employed for month after month in Hillary's campaign.

[Tatiana]

150. These people had the AUDACITY to shout "McCain! McCain! McCain 08!"

Over and over during the DEMOCRATIC Rules and Bylaws Committee proceedings.

My sister was sitting in the back of the room, surrounded by 3 of these "supporters."

It was the height of arrogance and disdain for a party that had conducted itself in a transparent and democratic way.

The shameful booing of Donna Brazille, who may not be the brightest bulb, but is one of the FEW democratic leaders who stood up for having a gay & lesbian caucus in the party to protect the interests of GLBT people.

These people don't know about Alex Herman (Alexis' father) suing the Democratic party to let blacks vote. That's right. Blacks couldn't vote in the Democratic primary. So when I see a bunch of bussed-in New Yawkers with signs that say "Count Our Votes," I wonder how many protests these people attended to help blacks get the right to vote in the primary process. They certainly look to be of the age that they could have helped out with the cause of counting all our votes.

But no. That spectacle was about one person and one personality only. Somehow, these poor people have linked their own success (or perhaps failure) with that of Hillary Clinton's candidacy. And reading the emails this morning that the Clinton campaign has been sending out, it is clear that Clinton is agitating and encouraging these people to act in this manner.

[PurgedVoter]

144. K&R

We will be seeing more and more of these folk. The DINO's will be coming in, joining us because their boat sank. They will still want to do everything that sank that boat.

[TragedyandHope]

149. K&R Well said

The empty threat of "I'll cut off my nose to spite my face" just shows that certain hearts and minds were in the wrong place to begin with.

The problem is, so many people willfully choose not to think. That's why advertising works, why mainstream news is still on the air and why we've had 8 years of Bush.


Ask yourself, What is REALLY IMPORTANT to you, your family, your children and your country? And how will voting for McCain accomplish those goals?

There is an excellent post today about the difference between "supporters" and supporters. That really nailed it.

[ReformedRep]

153. As a republican turned democrat this election...

I am, to use the republican term dujour, puzzled by the showing by some of those who support McCain over Obama. The abuses of the Bush administration and the threatened continuation of these policies by McCain were enough to make me, and plenty others like me, look to the democratic party for refuge. To see the behavior I saw yesterday before a meeting of the DNC was ridiculous. Did those people really think that shouting McCain and encouraging this to go to "Denver! Denver!" was representing their candidate in a favorable way?

From where I sit, this isn't about Sen. Obama or Sen. Clinton, hell it isn't even about the democratic party. It's about America. It's about righting the wrongs of 8 years of Constitution shedding bullshit. And it is again, puzzling to me, to see people caring more about a candidate who really cares more about herself than she will about you any day of the week, so willing to sacrifice so much of the country they purport to respect and fight for because of some drummed up rhetoric of a candidate who lost by the rules. They would rather see soldiers die, womens rights trampled upon, our Constitution mangled, prisoners tortured and our leadership in the world further diminished because they are bitter, yes bitter, their candidate squandered a "give me" nomination.

As a supporter of Sen. Obama and a volunteer for his campaign, I try to mince words with those who support Sen. Clinton, but the original article here has it dead on. If you choose to be selfish with your vote... by all means. Those of us who love this country more than we love our presidential candidate will do otherwise and work hard to make sure that you are the minority and at the end of the election, who is best for America out of the two won their parties NOMINATION wins. And that is Sen. Obama by a mile.

And as an aside. I find all this talk of how this process somehow reflects sexism in our country to be rather insane. I, as a woman, do not need to have the rules changed to beat anyone. I, as a woman, do not need to skirt the rules, complain and have others take up my fight and embarrass themselves to win. I prefer to win by the rules. Winning in this fashion would be no victory for feminism.

[Tatiana]

154. A hearty welcome to DU!

:hug::hi:

Fantastic comments and I completely agree with them. There are many more, like yourself, who have found that the Republican party no longer represents their values. These people will put their country first and, hopefully, help us to restore some sanity and competence to our government.

[cui bono]

156. Great post, lots of good points. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[MzNov]

163. K&R

[nomaco-10]

164. You lost me at "I respect Hillary Clinton's Candidacy." n/t

[DinahMoeHum]

165. Bill Clinton bascially ignored the grass roots starting in 1992. . .

and it cost him big time starting in 1994.

It has also cost US big time for over 10 years, until 2006.

Bill and Hillary represent the past. Obama represents the future.

We need more pioneers and fewer historians now.

:kick::kick:

[ann_american2004]

172. Just cant let it go

Do you have sores on your body from all the Hillary-hate withdrawl making you twitch and scratch? Couldnt take it? Just had to do it? Pathetic.

hmphf as long as a post like that makes you feel better about yourself. Whatever.

Obama '08