Relax Hillary Cannot Appeal to the Credentials Committee

[grantcart]

Hillary Cannot Appeal

The Rules of the Committee nailed the Clinton's campaign shut.

Hillary did not reserve the right to appeal. She has no such right.

Dissatisfied Democrats in Michigan could mount an appeal but it would have to do three things to last more than 5 minutes

1) They would have to show that there was real harm and a clear injustice.

2) They would have to show that their remedy was better than what the Rules Committee came up with.

3) The would have to show that there is widespread support for this in the Michigan State Democratic Party.;


When the Rules Committee ruled unanimously on the Florida resolution it eliminated a two state problem and now Hillary can only complain about Michigan.



Harold Ickes "we reserve the right to appeal" is just the silly old lawyer trying to say something bold to buck up the client on the way out before the Sheriff takes him off to jail.

What do you expect him to say "We got our asses handed today and its all over"?

[GarbagemanLB]

1. I always figured it would have to be the state parties or someone from MI/FL to make an appeal.

[C_U_L8R]

2. I reserve the right to have a beer

A toast... to a magnificent Democratic day !

:toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast:

[dana_b]

17. that looks like more than one beer!!

but who's counting??? :beer:

[goclark]

32. I'll drink to that with you!

[VolcanoJen]

51. Hooray!!!

What a day, eh? It was like Fitzmas, only it was actually awesome. :-)

:toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast:

[scarletwoman]

52. "It was like Fitzmas, only it was actually awesome." Oh wow, GREAT line!

I haven't felt this happy about the Democratic party in longer than I can remember.

:woohoo:

Peace,
sw

[trof]

58. And I pledge my life and fortune to defend that right.

:toast:
;-)

[H2O Man]

3. She has

no standing.

Nominated.

[roguevalley]

80. I am glad all are seated and that the punishment is enough to

prevent anyone else from doing this without pause. By the by, CNN has an exit poll that says Puerto Rico's turnout is lower than usual. This is not good news for Hillary they say.

[AZBlue]

4. Really?!

:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:
You just made my night!

[woolldog]

5. I reserve the right to rec this thread.

[tekisui]

6. He was blowing smoke and nothing more.

It's over. Of course it was over before today, but, it was good to give some of the last defenders some theatrics and face time.

On to Wednesday!!!! And Nominee Barack Obama.

[derby378]

7. Tapout, Hillary - you fought hard, but it's over

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

8. Uh I really like "We got our asses handed today and its all over"?

but I get your point.

[trickyguy]

105. Their asses are gonna be in a sling pretty soon.

[WeDidIt]

9. I just discovered the BIGGEST reason there will be no appeal

The chairs of the credentials committee are Alexis Herman and James Roosevelt.

There is no way in hell they would allow an overturning of the decision made by the other committee they chaired, the Rules and Bylaws Committee, on their new committe.

[NotThisTime]

22. No! Who else is on the committee?

[grantcart]

30. that will be decided by the presumptive nominee

On July 1st the DNC hands control of the convention over to the presumptive nominee.

Members on the committees, including platform, are selected from the different candidates.

[bigbrother05]

10. Say this loud, so they will hear.

[woolldog]

11. Upon reflection, I have decided to exercise that right.

[grantcart]

12. only if you bring enough for everyone - just like grade school

[Tatiana]

13. But will FL be satisfied for real now?

As long as the state parties are satisfied with the outcome, she has no issue to raise.

She cannot show irreparable harm.

But she can start a fight on behalf of one of the states.

Levin took Michigan FIRMLY off the table.

But I don't know about that DINO Nelson...

[grantcart]

19. It was a unanamous decision nobody is going to do anything against that

But besides that on Wednesday Obama is the presumptive nominee

He is likely to become President

All of the slimey sychophants are going to rush to his side and be his new best friend.

Nobody is going to want to upset the big guy at his Convention.


Theoretical Power just became real power.

[cliffordu]

14. BWAHHHHAAHAHAHHA!!! Great Post!!!!

K&R!!

[mzmolly]

15. Posturing for a VP slot perhaps?

:shrug:

[grantcart]

34. that ship has passed just an idol threat now

her best bet is to endorse Obama and show that she can be a team player

[mzmolly]

38. I dunno

bub. I'm not sure she knows where her ship is? ;)

[juno jones]

84. All I can envision is fogbanks and icebergs....

and the utter hubris of deeming something inevitable and declaring it unsinkable.

[mzmolly]

99. ROFL

"The Hiltanic?" :P

[cui bono]

103. "idol threat"

GREAT typo!!!

:rofl:

[Lucky 13]

16. If only I could believe that was true.

They're out to ruin the party.

[grantcart]

24. No that's not true they are out to accumulate power and now all avenues have

been cut off and their only alternative to get back power is to embrace Obama.


He has the keys to the car and if these kids want to borrow it they are going to have to be nice to Dad.

[Lena inRI]

55. LOL. . .BUT. . .

. . .be sure HRC has a graduated license and supervised use of the party car!

She may get drunk on power unexpectedly and crash the car. . .

Extension of your very clever analogy, grantcart. . .and I do K & R your essential point.

WE DO HAVE A NOMINEE, BY GOLLY!

Time to change me avatar. . .

:party: :toast: :party: :toast: :party:

[cliffordu]

18. Serious question: what was the mechanism that she failed to use

to keep her right to appeal??

[grantcart]

23. She failed to come from the state of Michigan

An appeal can be made but it would have to be made by Michigan Democrats against the compromise that everyone in Michigan wanted.

It doesn't make any sense.

You cannot have a delegate in New York challenge the seating of a delegation in Michigan.



It is a sanction against Michigan Democrats not Hillary.


The bad news is were going to have to cancel Apeshit Wednesday

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6185448

[cliffordu]

29. Ah...I wasn't paying full attention!! Thanks grantcart!!

I was thinking that a candidate could challenge anywhere, but I'm stupid on endorphins....so....

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

75. Actually anyone can appeal, just like anyone can file a lawsuit

But when people without standing file lawsuits, they are almost always immediately dismissed.

Much like the frivolous lawsuits coming from those who claim to represent Florida Democrats.

So sure, Hillary has a "right" to be childish and make a big stink. The committee then has the "right" to say, "Sorry, you have no standing."

Potty-Mouth Ickeys, in his rude rant yesterday, confirmed what many of us have been saying for months.

It is, in his mind (and according to him, her mind as well), NOT about the rights of voters in Michigan, but totally about HER "rights." Me Me Me.

Notice that no one from Michigan said the Michigan Delegation reserved any "rights" because the Michigan Democratic Party asked for, and was granted, an exception to the rules.

It is so sad but funny how Camp Clinton gets caught up in their own twisted words.

[stray cat]

20. We're now in the GE with Obama as the nominee

Hillary can do whatever she wants but she will become increasingly irrelevant if she antagonizes the democratic party The votes were there for a 50:50 split in MI but Obama didn't fight for it because he wanted a concensus.

[liberalcanuck]

95. Hopefully we can unify as much as possibly - the Hillary fringe elements notwithstanding -

now the real fight begins. I am soooo ready.

[TheDoorbellRang]

21. Then Tuesday night this could all be over

Let it be so!:party:

[grantcart]

27. yes its all been set up Obama is going to St Paul where the

Republicans are going to have their convention.

[MNBrewer]

72. Ooo. That might be worth crossing the river to go to

[mopinko]

96. hell, it might be worth

a bus trip from chicago.

[goclark]

25. That is exactly what I wanted to know and now I feel so much

BETTER!

:bounce:

Thank you grantcart for spelling it out for those of us that have trouble reading through all the threads.

:hug:

[grantcart]

28. thanks

[Ichingcarpenter]

26. Thanks Grantcart..... nominated and kicked n/t

[goclark]

31. R and kick

:bounce: Oh Happy day!

[grantcart]

41. thanks

[beac]

33. K & R!

:applause:

[myrna minx]

35. Thanks.

Hopefully I'll be able to report a fantastic time celebrating at the Xcel Energy Center on Tuesday night. :toast:

[grantcart]

36. poll time = who do you think will be in Saint Paul on Tuesday?

[myrna minx]

37. I think Tuesday will be a big day.

I hope the attendees will be the major players of the Democratic Party, such as Gore, Edwards, & Kerry. My fantasy of Gore attending is too premature in the process, but again, I can hope. I think Biden may come forward and endorse at this time. I guarantee the Minnesota delegation will be there: Senator Klobuchar, Rep Keith Ellison, Rep. McCollum, Rep. Oberstar, Rep Waltz and State Rep. Mee Moua. It would be great if Senator Feingold would attend, and if Senator Harkin, currently uncommitted, would pledge his support to Obama. If Senator Kennedy would be able to come, it would bring down the whole place. Who do you think will attend? :shrug:

[Terre]

39. I'm not sure I'll get an answer

since it's kind of late, but do you have a link that directs us to rules or law that says she does not have any right to "reserve an appeal"?

I'm not saying I disbelieve you (I'm supporting Obama btw), but if I pass this information on to others they may ask me "What proof do you have?"

Thanks.

[grantcart]

40. Logic but I did check with a couple of attorneys in here before I gave an answer

H20 Man also agreed


She has no standing. She is not the injured party the state democratic parties of Florida and Michigan are.

Here are the rules
http://s3.amazonaws.com/apache.3cdn.net/6db9de2c969d3fd055_2bm6ib44l.pdf

The relevant issue may however be in Roberts Rules of Order.


There is more though. The Florida vote was unanimous and many Clinton supporters voted for the Michigan compromise.


The key though is that both the Florida and Michigan state parties are absolutley delighted and they are the ones that would have to agree with a challenge.


But there is still more. The chairs of the credentials committee are the same two chairs of today's rules committee.


And then there is this. In July the authority of the convention is passed from the DNC to the presumptive nominee and they control the committee appointments.

[Terre]

43. Thanks for the reply! :o)

OK, that makes sense. And even if she could be considered an "injured party" it'll probably a moot point by that time anyway.

I just wish she'd concede already, so we can all move forward without having to wonder whether another shoe will drop.

[grantcart]

44. Of course she is the 'injured party' but she has to argue it from the point of a

Michigan delegate not as a candidate. With Michigan Dems loving it no challenge could be successful.


The crowd of super delegates are lining up for the rush to the doors.

[roguevalley]

82. it would have to be party dems in Michigan to make a challenge,

right? Not just any dem on the street sort of thing.

[mac2]

62. Dean picked the committee leaders

"The chairs of the credentials committee are the same two chairs of today's rules committee."

Talk about a fixed primary.

[RNdaSilva]

42. Great per usual...

Why is it so difficult for some to comprehend that this race is over? Has been for some time. Maybe Tuesday night when it's "officially" announced.

A TOAST TO DOM PÉRIGNON
And Senator Barack Obama



***** Cheers! *****

[RNdaSilva]

45. Forgot the bottle(s)...

Dom Pérignon - elitism...

[Kaleko]

46. It's because of the dreaded Terminator 2 factor

that many are still suspicious. Remember how that THING reconstituted itself every time it was blown up?

But I'm considering what would happen if grantcart was right, and it's really finally over...

[FlaGranny]

61. That's exactly the reason.

The race IS over, but the division and damage will continue until Clinton SAYS it is over and stops campaigning. She's like all those movie monsters who can't be destroyed and even at the end of the movie when the monster is put away for good they show a piece of it still alive, making way for the sequel.

[mac2]

64. It's not Hillary who you should worry about.

A movie monster is not the other part of the party whose votes were stolen before the convention.

[FlaGranny]

73. I'm sorry, but your post

doesn't make sense. I'm from Florida - my vote hasn't been stolen. Whose vote has been stolen? When I voted I believed that my vote wouldn't count at all - almost didn't vote. In any case, I didn't realize this primary was by popular vote. Just saw a film of Mr. Ickes on Meet the Press where he's declaring, in no uncertain terms, "delegates count, not popular votes." Of course, that was back, I believe, in January.

The "monster" part of the post is an analogy, you know.

[grantcart]

92. Its not over its just begun

[RoadRage]

47. Howard also reserved the right to look like an ASS

And, congrats to him - he's doing a fine job of it!

That guy needs to just sit back, have a beer and perhaps write a book or something. It's over - he knows it.. and he's just following Clinton's footsteps of pouting, crying and kicking the floor like a 2 year old. My kid does it all of the time.. it doesn't get her toy back any faster, but I think it makes her feel better. My husband & I just smile and walk away.. we know she'll get over it eventually and look for a new toy. Howard will do the same!

[Kaleko]

48. Howard?? You mean Harold Ickes, I think.

[RoadRage]

67. Yes.. i meant Harold.. shouldn't type at midnight when tired. ;)

[rucky]

69. All those dorky "H" names get confusing.

Right, Herbert?

[mac2]

63. Divide and Conquer

[canucksawbones]

86. that's been Hillary's strategy.eom

[CatnHat]

49. Wrong again

Hillary will and should take to the credentials committee; and there are millions backing her up.

[scarletwoman]

53. "...there are millions backing her up." Maybe in the Twilight Zone. Meanwhile, on planet Earth

Barack Obama is the Dem nominee.

[canucksawbones]

87. thankfully,

if she does the committee will be formulated along the delegate counts, so Hillary is at a disadvantage.

[ClayZ]

50. K and R

[Raine]

54. I'm glad but still worried because

whether she has legitimate claim or not it probably won't stop her from trying to make trouble. :-(

[Jefferson23]

74. People keep saying Hillary could make trouble for the Democratic party as if she hasn't already.

She lost some time ago and yet she never chose to end her campaign with dignity. Instead she appears to have made the decision to create as much doubt and controversy regarding the legitimacy of the race to garner a "martyred" win.

If her supporters vote for McCain, I hope they do not blame that choice on the DNC rules, but at least take responsibility for their vote. Voting for McCain will be another validation for Hillary, at this point, I truly believe that is what she is hoping for.

[ballsalicious]

56. Rules? We don't need no stinking Rules!

[AlbertCat]

78. Rules? We don't need no stinking Rules!

That's for sure. FL & MI should have 0 delegates with no votes seated because that was the rule and everybody said OK to it. And now the Dems look wishy-washy and unable to follow their own rules. Instead we get literally a 1/2 assed flip flop. Get out your pink tutus.

Still.... I hope it's over. I'm sick of it.

[quaker bill]

57. Carl Levin

can appeal. He would have standing. It is unlikely he would prevail as apparently he was on board with those who chose to willfully violate the timing rule.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

60. I think Carl is satisfied with yesterdays decision.

[mac2]

65. Not just Carl or Hillary should be your concern.

The timing rule is part of a democratic voting policy? Sounds like the test they used to give those they didn't want to vote in the south. One excuse after another to steal an election DLCers.

[JBoy]

59. I was kinda hoping to hear Ickes say "I'm going to Disneyland!!".

[rucky]

68. LOL

I hope he goes.

[phrigndumass]

66. "Dammit, I wanted 73 delegates and I only got 69"

Are they going to waste a whole lot of time and money for four delegates? If they do, it won't be for those four delegates, it'll be to tear the party apart and ensure a McCain win.

Yesterday's outcome was a unity outcome. Those decrying it are against unity.

:D

[roguevalley]

83. their plan was to continue the contest to the convention, not necessarily

to make a fight there but to wait for something to happen between now and then. with the primaries ending, there is nothing else for her to keep this thing going but a dispute to the committee. She is now facing a few months of nothing happening to keep her going.

[canucksawbones]

90. and that transletes to two votes to boot. eom

[Willo]

70. This is great news but now I'm really puzzled.

Had Hillary gotten her way this weekend she would still be behind in all categories. So, what was her purpose and intent for making and maintaining FL/MI as an issue?

There was an OP some time back about campaign bubbles -- was this just an exercise in futility or did something change?
Did the Committee's decisions this weekend also contain another message? Perhaps about the shift in power?

I'm trying to understand what she's doing.

[grantcart]

88. She is just treading water trying to keep Super Delegates from committing

This does 2 things

1) Keeps her contributions coming in

2) Keeps the nomination 'open' awaiting something terrible coming out about Obama that would cause people to reconsider their support. A new issue like 'Wright'.

[Willo]

101. I like this picture

The nice and polite vs. The rude and impolite.

What you say makes sense. I can't argue with your logic and I do want to believe it will end on a high note. But these are the people that ignore all of the hints to go home. Obviously, a not so nice version of your second part is what I see.

If the Party calls it this week and the Convention is in late August, the next two months could hold more drama. Jeez, that's too depressing a thought.

On to McCain. Have you been to McCainpedia? http://www.mccainpedia.org/index.php/Main_Page

FlipperTV

Howard Dean's Statement

"The idea behind FlipperTV is simple: let the American people hear directly from the Republican candidates unscripted and in their own words, and let them decide if they want four more years of Bush's failed policies or a Democrat who will bring change to the White House. This video will come directly from the campaign trail, letting voters see who they truly are, not who their campaigns want them to be."

http://www.mccainpedia.org/index.php/FlipperTV

[grantcart]

102. thanks for the link

As to your broader point of the Clinton's not getting the message.


I know everyone knows this but let me restate the obvious. We are not actually talking to the Clintons.


We are talking amongst ourselves and to continue the hysteria against Clinton supporters.


We can, after all, go apeshit later on lol.

[Willo]

104. 'tis true

I've got AS reserved on ice. Hmm, on the stove? In the crapper?:shrug:

Anywho, it'll keep :)

[grantcart]

108. lol

[Iwillnevergiveup]

71. What Hillary is doing

is riding across Puerto Rico in the back of a pickup truck. Aye carumba!

[Zambero]

76. It's Hillary's last gasp bargaining chip for the VP spot on the ticket

The real message is "Make my day and I'll make this latest cloud go away".

[mamalone]

77. OK... so then what is she talking about...

When she says, she's going to take this to the convention, what is she talking about? What is her plan (assuming she has one?)

[grantcart]

85. bluster just treading water until Tuesday

[mamalone]

94. Well, then...

That's a relief. I will be so glad when all this is over.... and then we get to do the GE, which will be completely devoid of stress, right?


right?


;)

[dchill]

79. All our party is belong to us!

:toast: :hi:

[Phred42]

81. K & R

[salguine]

89. The only injustice is that any of the delegates were seated at all.

Last time I checked, I have to abide by agreements that I sign.

[BklynChick]

91. thanks for your sanity & insight, I thought she could appeal it but I see he's just blowing smoke

[K Gardner]

93. Thanks, Grant.. I rest a bit easier now :-)

[high density]

97. As Russert pointed out this morning, Ickes voted to create a problem

He voted against seating Michigan!

[grantcart]

98. that is my point the Obama people have painted them into a corner

He also reported and Ickes did not disagree that they had the votes to split it 50/50

[slinkerwink]

100. Exactly.

[Grinchie]

106. I reserve the right to BOO* Hillary every time she passes by.

or Quack, depending an how I feel.

DLC Idiots be gone!

[grantcart]

107. yeah but give her supporters a pass