The vast majority of people who voted for Hillary will vote for Barack Obama in the general election

[ruggerson]

I don't care about how much you seek out imaginary enemies on a message board.

I don't care about polls six months out, which reflect anger and resentment and nothing more. Much like polls a year ago reflected name recognition and nothing more.

I don't care about the whining of the few Hillary supporters on DU who have said they won't vote for Barack.

I don't care about the whining of the Barack supporters who take the few Hillary supporters here and the few Hillary supporters protesting at a hearing and the few Hillary supporters with various websites as some kind of bizarre proof that all the people who voted for Hillary Clinton in the primary are monolithic Obama haters.

You can write thread after thread, for months, as many of you have, maligning Hillary, raging at her supporters here, screaming childishly at the top of your lungs and guess what? It won't make a whit of a difference.

The vast majority of Hillary voters who live in reality will vote for Obama DESPITE you.

Despite your bile, despite your juvenile crap, despite your incessant need for attention.

They will vote for Obama, because they are Democrats.

99.999% of people who voted for Hillary have never been to Hillaryis44, they don't know who the fuck Taylor Marsh is and they don't follow the election like we all do.

The candidate they voted for in the primary lost the nomination. Big fucking deal. It has happened to many of us before, it will happen to many of us again.

So carry on with your useless haranguing, your anger and your vitriol.

No one is paying attention to you.

The vast majority of Hillary supporters will vote for Barack because he is the Democrat and so are they.

Period.

[Iwasthere]

1. well said

Exactly!!

[Johnny Battleground]

53. Ugh.. It Ain't Enough

Obama has to reach across and get swing voters.
He's too weak, too flawed, too much of a rookie to do it.
I've been warning about this for months.

I may be a Dem, but I can see the writing on the wall.
McCain will walk Obama.
Why?
Because Obama has shown he isn't a uniter... not even in our party.
Wright is the Change people see.
Hope won't win elections.

Obama has made too many huge errors to believe the swing voters will vote for him.

Here we go again. Securing defeat from the jaws of victory.
OPOD (One Pissed Off Democrat)

[pnorman]

54. And Hillary is a "uniter"??? WTF???

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Here's just one of her supporters:

There are more from that Dixiecrat Underground.

pnorman

[roguevalley]

59. links or is your ass the source of your 'analysis'

[Cheap_Trick]

63. and hillary IS a uniter?

Where the fuck have you been?

Swing voters will NOT be more likely to vote for clinton.

The right wing has been lovey-dovey with hillary SO FAR during this primary.

If she goes to the GE, the kid gloves come off and they put on the brass knuckles.

They will eviscerate her.

They will slaughter her.

Her petulant, whiny, racist bull shit is what people see.

The rhetoric of OBLITERATION won't win elections.

Nice try, but GPOD

(Go Piss Off, "Democrat")

[babylonsister]

2. Gotta get your digs in, doncha? Yes, if they're Democrats they will

support the Democratic candidate. But spare me your Obama outrage, ruggerson. :eyes:

[ruggerson]

3. I have no Obama outrage

I have DU Obama supporter amusement.

Is it not enough for you that Democrats vote for Obama?

What more do you demand?

[woolldog]

10. I demand a blood oath!

[ruggerson]

11. that's what it seems like unfortunately

it's both comical and sad.

[woolldog]

33. well, there are a lot of outrageous Clinton supporters out there.

I'm embarrassed for her more rational supporters.

[babylonsister]

Bwhaha! Demand? Not a thing. Figure it out for yourself.

And I mean that in the nicest way. :D

[ruggerson]

16. Already have, babe

many moons ago.

And I mean babe in an oh so loving way.

[babylonsister]

18. So what's with the negative OP? It is, you know. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Negative?

The vast majority of people who voted for Hillary will vote for Barack Obama in the general election

Exactly HOW?

This is political reality, MOST FOLKS who voted for Hillary in the Primary will vote for Obama come November

[EFerrari]

21. Read it again.

[ruggerson]

24. I conferred with your mother before I wrote this

and her exact words were: "you go boy."

[EFerrari]

31. On second thought, ruggerson, you go for it.

At least she didn't bite my head off today. I'm good. :)

/ack

[ruggerson]

35. I bribed her not to

took her out for a nice steak. She's the epitome of calm.

[EFerrari]

43. Then, I owe you bigtime.

:party:

[ruggerson]

45. ...

:pals:

[babylonsister]

25. Bile filled, in your own words. What did you miss?

I don't care about the whining of the Barack supporters who take the few Hillary supporters here and the few Hillary supporters protesting at a hearing and the few Hillary supporters with various websites as some kind of bizarre proof that all the people who voted for Hillary Clinton in the primary are monolithic Obama haters.

You can write thread after thread, for months, as many of you have, maligning Hillary, raging at her supporters here, screaming childishly at the top of your lungs and guess what? It won't make a whit of a difference.

The vast majority of Hillary voters who live in reality will vote for Obama DESPITE you.

Despite your bile, despite your juvenile crap, despite your incessant need for attention.

[ruggerson]

27. hey for once I agree with every word you just wrote

[babylonsister]

38. NOW I will add my comments to your intemperate ramble.

I disagree with you, but I hope I showcased how silly you sound. I know it sucks to be wrong, but when we had two candidates we could support, at least we still have one. See, I will bypass your disparaging comments, as I can!

[ruggerson]

41. You seem to want me to

to agree with you that DU Obama supporters (or many of them) have been correct and rational in their unrelenting attacks on Hillary and her supporters.

I can't agree with that because it's not the truth and I like the truth.

But none of that can stop me from voting for Obama.

In the larger picture, we're on the same team. EVen if many of us will avoid having our picture taken with y'all. :) (joking)

[Asgaya Dihi]

49. You can't see how you're doing exactly what you complain about?

How is your posting your vitriol about their vitriol, your insults about their insults, supposed to solve anything? A few lines from your post.

Despite your bile, despite your juvenile crap, despite your incessant need for attention.

will vote for Obama DESPITE you

the whining of the Barack supporters

screaming childishly at the top of your lungs

Well then, I guess you showed them how a real adult makes a point instead of bile and childish screaming, huh? I don't think anyone needs you to pat anyone on the back but if you're asking for a given brand of behavior from others it might be an idea to check your own post for it too first. It's a bit less effective to shout at them to do as you say and not as you do.

If it had been anything other than the pissed off attack it looks like to me I might have rec'd the thread or agreed at the least, we all know things have been rough here recently and a lot are trying to step back a bit, but your post just contributes to the flames instead. You don't ask people to behave better by acting pretty much like you accuse them of acting.

[ruggerson]

56. That's a circular argument

as noted elsewhere in this thread, if one sees bigotry, one condemns it.
Your argument parallels the religious right's response to those who condemn bigotry: they yell that it's intolerant to condemn them - that the intolerance is on the side of those who would strip them of their rights to be bigoted.

You're attempting to argue that my disagreeing with the idiocy that we have seen on this board is somehow morally equivalent to the vitriol itself that is being condemned. I reject your premise, because it is specious and illogical.

[Asgaya Dihi]

66. No, actually I'm not. Neither I don't think are others.

What I'm suggesting is that there are better ways to say pretty much the same thing but I'd guess you already knew that and are just being a bit defensive. The way you choose to do it this time holds too much temper and insults itself to be productive as a message to act otherwise. People don't generally think about what you say if they are insulted or you're doing it too and some obviously were, even if you don't agree or didn't intend it.

And aren't you using an argument of the religious right right there? Nothing you say can possibly be wrong or insulting because you're right, and who says you're right? Why you do. You mentioned something about circular logic?

Believe it or not what you think or what you intend isn't all that matters. You think you can sit and tell us how others strike you? Fine, but if you're going to do that it might be useful to offer the same respect to others. NONE of us see ourselves the way others do, you and I both included. Get too sure we can't possibly be wrong and the odds tend to climb pretty fast that this time we are. Pride before the fall and all of that good stuff.

[ruggerson]

67. Do you honestly think

that anything a rational Obama or Hillary supporter says here is going to change these people's attitudes or suddenly make adults out of the worst ones? My tone ain't the problem. The post wasn't meant to be measured and/or influence anyone. It just basically explains how I frankly view it. Nobody elses opinion but my own. Of course some will be insulted. I'm not a fan of how they behave. Is anything you or I write going to change them? Of course not.

[Asgaya Dihi]

68. Yes, actually I do

Look around. Lots of people are alternating between temper and regret. They'll snap at someone in one thread and apologize for having had such a temper against the other side in the next. And no, your tone isn't the problem. Ours is, as a group, and we're already working on getting past it.

Now which one of those urges do we want to encourage? Yeah, attitudes can change.

They are already heading in the right direction and will probably end up there with or without any help from you or I, and to tell the truth I've had a bit of temper here myself I'm trying to get over. Judging by the OP you made you were a bit annoyed as well. We're all dealing with it and most are trying same as you seem to be. None though are perfect though, same as you and I probably fail to be.

I'm a big believer in change. We've changed everything from women can't vote to they can and have every right to, from blacks aren't people and no law applied to them according to our own Supreme Court prior to the Civil War in the Dred Scott decision to equal rights (more or less) and equal protection under the law (more or less). Did it solve the problems? http://www.prisonsucks.com/">No. Things are a lot better though.

We can change the big ones with enough time and effort, change as substantial as who they'll sit next to in church or who they'll let their kids date or marry doesn't get much closer to home. If we can change the big ones, and we can, it's rather silly to assume we can't do anything about a short term temper problem. That is all we really have here. A politician who lost, one who won, and supporters from either side not happy with how it happened. That's too big to overcome? I doubt it. If we'd quit picking at each other and start looking at McCain it'll come a lot easier than we think. Just have to put the primary behind us first.

If it's not meant to influence anyone that's cool, I've vented myself at times so can't blame you. Can't say it was productive though, not to anyone but me at the time. Impression I had from the OP though seemed to suggest that you did want them to act different. If that wasn't the goal, fine, if it was then the choice of words and temper probably got in the way of the message.

Peace.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. It is time to put that to bed ok

the political reality is that MOST VOTERS are not paying attention and will vote in November

That is why the hand wringing is annoying and funny at the same time

By the way here is one piece of poltical reality

Some of her Supporters will vote for McCain

Some will write her in

Some will stay home

A few will vote for Barr

And MOST will vote for Obama

That is reality... most voters cannot tell Rover from Ickes, or even know who they are. And quite frankly, they don't care either.

[ruggerson]

37. brilliantly put

thank you

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. You welcome,

soon this will be over, and THANK GOD for that... and I don't even believe in God.

[ruggerson]

22. All this bile

which is evidenced here in thread after thread after thread, is completely wasted energy. Hillary will give a great speech at the convention in support of Barack. Almost everyone who pulled the lever for Hillary in the primaries will vote for Barack. And the real enemy is McCain, not Hillary Clinton or her supporters. They are on the same side as you.

That's the facts, Jack.

[babylonsister]

28. YOU started the wasted energy, but I agree and hope so.

WHEN will Clinton start attacking McCain instead of praising him? WHEN will she embrace Obama? Soon, I hope. No time to lose, and I leave for NY to see Dad in July. :scared: He won't be happy either.

[ruggerson]

34. She's been attacking McCain

I guess you haven't been paying attention. She's even defended Obama recently.

But that's not really the point. It's over. She's lost. The vast general public could give a shit about any of this inside baseball.

And Hillary supporters will vote for Barack. There's no need to continue all the deluge of vitriol.

They. will. vote. for. Obama.

[babylonsister]

40. Holy mackeral! She defended Obama? I was gone for a week, so

I must have missed that! Good news!

[ruggerson]

42. Here you go

Just one example recently:

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/05/hillary_defends_obama_from_mcc.php

Hillary Defends Obama From McCain's Hamas Attack

[mrbluto]

32. Relief from smugness, respite from swagger - that's what people are wishing for.

So you're amused?

How condescending.

You and a bunch of other people seem to relish seeing someone lose more than actually desire a victory.

[ruggerson]

36. Sorry dude

I'm voting for Obama. Many of his supporters here notwithstanding. I have voted for every Democrat since Jimmy Carter the first time around.

Do you think that streak is going to be stopped by some online assholes?

[mrbluto]

69. Did I ask you not to vote for Obama?

No.

How about volunteering that "no one is listening" to other people.

And comments in that vein.

Look, since Edwards endorsed Obama that was the remaining bit that decided me about how I'm going to vote. (unless something drastic happens) - now I worry about how it'll play out.

What sort of victory will it be? What sort of tone will be set? What sorts of precedent will be set?

Saying people are full of bile, and all the rest of this does us no favors. Having anyone with presumption to run get practically run out of the party if they don't win will make it so only people of a certain character run. (I saw Edwards get called "Mr. Haircut" and "Hedgefund lackey" enough times to wonder why anyone would ever take the risk of running.)

Where have we seen swagger and smugness like we see on this board right now?

I'll tell you where I've seen it.

From Republicans after 2000 and 2004. I distinctly remember the tone and energy.

They all relished Gore's loss more than Bush's "Victory".

Same for Kerry.

My advice? Don't become like the monster you fight.

[Mezzo]

70. they demand you drink the kool aid. I think apathy is the biggest concern right now.

I'm being told over and over again that they don't need me, so why on earth should I bother? It isn't BO, it's his supporters, and reg folks know it.

[Poll_Blind]

4. Indeed. I'd swear this is the at least the SECOND time he's done something like this.

IT IS

Fail a doodle-do!

PB

[ruggerson]

8. Your (plural) outrage never ends

thus it needs occasionally to be called out.

I volunteered.

[Nemme37]

5. i really hope so

i just think we should all set aside our differences

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Yep. I've said this a couple times already

we know the inside baseball details of this

but most folks had a nice afternoon today with the kids, and a great saturday... and they could not tell Harold Ickes in a crowd, or Rover for that matter, and lord knows Rover has had more exposure.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Yep. I've said this a couple times already

we know the inside baseball details of this

but most folks had a nice afternoon today with the kids, and a great saturday... and they could not tell Harold Ickes in a crowd, or Rover for that matter, and lord knows Rover has had more exposure.

[ruggerson]

9. Read upthread

they even get pissed at someone saying they will vote for Obama and urging others to.

[Poll_Blind]

12. No, you stick little digs in these faux "above it all" posts which give you away.

  You should stop this masturbatory nonsense. You can do better.

  Yes you can!

PB

[ruggerson]

13. Call em as I see em

and the only ones masturbating are those of you in a constant frenzy over whom Hillary supporters will vote for.

Sorry if truth offends you.

[babylonsister]

19. NOW you're being an asshole, ruggie. nt

[scarletwoman]

47. Actually, I think it's kind of clever. I love sardonic humor and sarcasm, and I can appreciate a

clever dig, even if it's aimed at me. No harm done.

Peace,
sw

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. I know, and at times i find it comical

but the inside baseball details will be forgotten, only to be discovered by graduate students.

On to November

[ruggerson]

17. On to November indeed

and I think we have a very, very good shot. Despite all the handwringers.

[abburdlen]

15. after canvassing in NC

I agree completely.

The only 'rabid' supporters I've ever heard from are on the internet.

[EFerrari]

23. So carry on with your useless haranguing, your anger and your vitriol.

:shrug:

[ruggerson]

26. no, see that's what I'm calling out

it's like when you see racism or sexism or bigotry, you call it out.

It's only the religious rightwing that then tries to come back with the lame argument that you're being intolerant of their hatred and irrationality.

[babylonsister]

39. Intolerant? Let's not go there, ruggerson. You were the definition

when it had to do with you. Again, I am sorry that happened, but still.

[ruggerson]

44. What am I intolerant of?

besides bigotry and stupidity?

[babylonsister]

46. You know what you fought for months. I will NOT bring it up even

though you know I agreed with you.

[IndianaJones]

29. I respect your opinion but don't think you are right. nt.

[CreekDog]

50. I agree with you

[Hippo_Tron]

51. I think that's a fair assumption

But I would suggest that the most extreme Obama supporters on DU do not represent the Obama campaign anymore than those people at Hillaryis44 represent the Clinton campaign.

[ruggerson]

57. I realize that

they are not reflective of Obama or his campaign.

But they are outsized here in numbers, largely because there are more Obama supporters here to begin with, so the extreme brigade at times seems like it's taken over the asylum.

[CatnHat]

52. to the OP

Nope--ain't gonna happen.

This isn't about sour grapes, it goes into substance and who is actually more electable. Obama is getting weaker and weaker. Stumbles his words, shady characters still coming out the woodwork; Obama's major problem with working class voters; and God knows what else. Obama is very flawed candidate. That's what wrong.

[Zenlitened]

55. K&R.

Well said. I think folks are wise enough to realize that some of the most rabidly partisan "supporters" around here are nothing more than griefers, sowing discord and division just for kicks.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JVS]

60. Save your longwinded message for the assholes on your side who keep threatening not to vote for...

the nominee and say that there will be a huge problem uniting the party.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. That MINORITY will NOT vote for Obama, and may even will cross

the aisle... but they are A MINORITY

That is the good news

[David Zephyr]

62. I'm not as optimistic as you are.

I am not as optimistic as you are. The Clintons will continue to sow disunity all the way up to the convention and into the convention leaving our party a mere 8 weeks to put together a national campaign against John McCain.

By the way, some of the "Obama is a homophobe-McClurkin posters" will not take kindly to your post. That said, I admire the fact that you wrote what you did.

But as I said to Tom Rinaldo, it's too late now. Our nominee is wounded, our funds are depleted, our calendar is too short and Hillary and Bill still will not unify behind the winner.

[BigDDem]

64. Good luck with that

I think you'll be suprised.

[VotesForWomen]

65. he's gotta get the nom first. nt