Great rant by a Clinton supporter.. Clinton Supporters vs. Clinton "Supporters"

[Joanne98]

Clinton Supporters vs. Clinton "Supporters"

by Angry Mouse, Sat May 31, 2008 at 09:05:14 PM EST



There's a difference, you know.

Supporters love their candidate. They educate themselves about their candidate. They learn about their candidate's policies, positions, background, voting record. They work to get their candidate elected -- by voting, by calling, by donating money, by slapping that sign in the front yard and that sticker on their car.

"Supporters", on the other hand, are a little different. They don't know much about their candidate, but that's because their candidate is irrelevant to them.

They hate the other candidate. That's their motivation. They trash the other candidate -- on TV, on blogs, at "rallies" and "protests." They seek confrontation and do not care if their behavior reflects badly on their candidate, because they don't really care about their candidate to begin with.

On Saturday, at the DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee meeting to determine the fate of Florida and Michigan's delegates, a group of Clinton "supporters" reportedly caused quite a commotion.

They chanted. They shouted. They booed.

They also embraced the crazed rantings of Larry Sinclair, who describes himself on his website as follows:

Larry has been threaten with death as well has many other things since coming forward with his sexual and drug use encounters with Presidential Candidate Barack Obama. Obama and his Chief Media advisor David Axelrod have engaged in a huge internet attack against Larry in hopes of keeping the truth about Obama from making out into the Main Stream Media which would make Obama have to respond and explain his lies. That is something Obama does not wish to do.

Got that? This man is alleging a drug-induced gay love affair with Obama. I didn't believe it the first time I heard it -- before he failed a polygraph test.

This man has been completely discredited and deserves no attention from the media and certainly not from Clinton supporters.

Clinton "supporters," on the other hand, have embraced his vile lies in a desperate attempt to smear Obama.

They do not care about Clinton; they care about destroying Obama. They are not supporters. They are "supporters."

It is easy, sometimes, to confuse supporters and "supporters." After all, they look alike. Sometimes they even sound alike. How is one to know the difference between the woman holding the Clinton sign (who supports Clinton) and the woman holding the Clinton sign (who opposes the other candidate at all costs)?

On the internet, it is even harder to know the difference. An anonymous blogger with an anonymous name posts a comment about opposing Obama. Is this person sincere? Or is this person a Republican troll trying to create disharmony among Democrats?

What is important to remember, however, is that a candidate's support does not come primarily from "supporters." These people lack the dedication and endurance that real supporters have. They jump on a bandwagon when it's convenient, and they will fall off just as easily.

Meanwhile, they manage to discredit the real supporters and the candidate they claim to support.

They are an embarrassment. They are a shame.

Now, let me make my guarantee to you:

I am a Clinton supporter. That means I prefer Clinton. I prefer her policies and positions. I admire her strength. I think she, more than any other candidate in the race, belongs in the White House next January.

But...

I denounce "supporters." I do not believe it is necessary or effective to smear Obama. I do not believe that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. I do not believe that Obama is my enemy, and I certainly do not believe that Larry Sinclair is in any way helpful to the cause of electing Clinton.

I am appalled by those "supporters" who say they will actively support McCain in November. It's one thing to dislike the nominee and to write in a preferred candidate or vote for a third-party candidate whom you believe more closely represents your values.

But to work for the candidate who in no way shares your values -- and to do so out of spite and bitterness -- is a mistake. It shows a lack of conviction and principles. It harms your cause -- whatever your cause is.

Yes, this is a democracy. Yes, we are allowed to vote however we want. Yes, I have serious concerns about the Democratic Party, and I am routinely embarrassed by Democratic leaders. And I'm keeping a list of complaints and demands that I will deliver to my representatives in January, when we have control over the White House and Congress.

But...

I will vote for Obama in November if he is the Democratic nominee. I may not like him much, but I will vote for him. I'm a Democrat. I know the stakes. I know that Justice Ginsburg is holding on to her Supreme Court seat with every ounce of will she can muster until a Democrat sits in the Oval Office to appoint her replacement.

(And I know that Sandra Day O'Connor fully expects the next president to appoint more women to the Supreme Court. And I agree with her completely.)

So.

Here's my point:

The primary season is almost over. And tensions are still high, and the party is still divided. It's easy to look at the supporters of the other candidate and think they're all the same. They're all "supporters." They're all filled with hate and vengeance. They don't really care about democracy, or democratic values, or Democratic values. They don't even care about their candidate.

But it's important to remember that there's a difference. Many of us -- most of us -- are supporters.

And when this fight is over, we'll all be supporting Obama.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/31/21514/3584

[MrsT]

1. Good read.

I am definitely a supporter.

[bunnies]

2. Excellent post. All great points.

:thumbsup:

[Shakespeare]

3. Great post. Thanks for this.

:thumbsup:

[TheDoorbellRang]

4. In our calmer moments I think we can all see the truth in this

There are many sensible supporters on both sides in this race; then there are many more of us (including myself) on both sides who fall prey to our worse selves on occasion and give in to snarkiness or even flaming. Then there are the "supporters" as the OP calls them who seem to have no other raison d'etre than to tear each other apart.

[youngharry]

78. "Supporters"

I think you will find many---not all--but many "Supporters" on both sides are really Republicans or recently registered Democrats that have been sent to Hillary's and Obama's campaign to create discord and division. It is the favorite Rovian trick. Just be aware and if you can, check the registration of these "Supporters", like Ms Christian of NY.

[Colobo]

5. What a GREAT post.

[Cant trust em]

6. I think we have the same nutballs in the Obama camp too.

Everyday I'm on DU I wind up seeing some attacks on the Senator from New York that have really gone too far.

At least one poster yesterday had the guts and class to make an apology thread.

[genna]

74. I think I qualify as a "supporter"

I don't think that it is good to try to bury the NY Senator, but I want her to pay for using race as a wedge and showing the Republicans if they go hard enough at it that they can scare up enough Democratic votes to win the presidency.


I don't think race should be use as a means to the presidency. I don't hate HRC with all that I have, but she has marginalized me and my race for political gain. She made me a default Obama supporter because she didn't give me to a choice in supporting her campaign on a non racial basis.


I know I will be flamed for making that claim made me choose Obama by default because of race but that is how I feel. I supported Clinton prior to these constant murmurings that he couldn't win the primary or the general because of race. I think we all know his skin is black, but that had nothing to do with the content of his character or his ability/capability.

I liked her because I thought Clinton had never truly been given a chance to strut her stuff and show what she was capable of. Now we will never know.

[phrigndumass]

7. K/R

There are "supporters" on both sides.

[lumberjack_jeff]

8. Agree with this. n/t

[DevonRex]

15. I'm really glad to see you say that. I always knew you were a

great guy. :)

[sellitman]

51. Thanks for saying that.

As a fellow "Lumber Jack" industry rat and Obama supporter that took alot of class.

[KittyWampus]

9. I'll be honest. I started as an Obama "supporters". I am now an enthusiastic supporter who took time

to really investigate more deeply what/who he is.

[architect359]

10. Thank you. Much appreciated! eom

:toast:

[Straight Shooter]

11. Supporter, here.

People can get carried away with their emotions (which is why I avoid football games), but, honestly, giving credence to Sinclair??? :wtf:

[DevonRex]

21. You are indeed a straight shooter. Thank you. nt

[Benhurst]

12. "And I know that Sandra Day O'Connor fully expects the next president

to appoint more women to the Supreme Court. And I agree with her completely."

We'd already have more women on the Supreme Court if it hadn't been for Sandra Day Oconnor's treason eight years ago. Billions of Dollars would not have been stolen and hundreds of thousands of innocent people murdered by the Bush Crime Family would still be alive.

[Jazzgirl]

14. I have often thought Sandra Day O'Connor

regretted that she signed off on GWB is 'pResident' in 2000.

This is an excellent post. I am a supporter too.

[Benhurst]

22. Given the almost unanimous rejection of the ruling by legal professionals,

I'm certain she has regretted her treasonable participation in it. Getting caught is never pleasant. But her treason stands.

[Raster]

39. If not for Selection 2000, O'Connor's legacy would be that of the first woman to sit on the highest

court in the land and a brilliant, centrist jurist that brought compassion and common sense to the bench. Unfortunately, that will not be her legacy. She will FOREVER be tarnished by being an accomplice to the cheney*/bush* neoCON coup d' etat that subverted the true and legal will of the people and allowed the WORST ADMINISTRATION IN OUR NATION'S HISTORY to plunder and pillage the United States at will.

So tell me Sandra, how's that 2000 decision working out for ya? I bet ol' Al Gore is looking real good about now...

[psquare]

66. I'm sure she feels a lot like Colin Powell and Scott McClellan. Used, compromised, thrown away.

[ieoeja]

83. Someone else said almost the exact same thing about Sandra Day O'Connor.

And that person was ... Sandra Day O'Connor. Asked about the Bush-v-Gore ruling a couple years later she said it was easily the worst decision she had ever made. She WANTED Bush to win, the decision was rushed, and she just didn't think it through. But after having time to think it through she could not find any way to justify it. And that she would likely always be remembered for that one horrible decision than for a career full of good ones.

[Raster]

85. Yes she will, and rightly so. She KNEW what she was doing was morally wrong and ILLEGAL!

But she participated in the sham of Selection 2000 anyway because she was a good little rethuglican. Not a good jurist or a good citizen. A good rethuglican. And now one of O'Connor's pet issues is working to maintain an independent judiciary. What a joke! She is one of the main reasons we don't have an independent, unbiased, non-partisan judiciary in this country today.

Again, how's that Selection 2000 ruling working out for ya, Ms. O'Connor?

[grannylib]

13. Thank you for posting this. I would feel much the same were the situation

reversed. I prefer Obama, but would proudly vote for Senator Clinton if she were the nominee (although a little less proudly than I might have done, had her campaign been run a little differently) if she were the nominee of our party.
I will be proud when the Democratic party elects either the first woman or the first African American in November.

[frickaline]

16. k&r - very good read, thanks

[BlooInBloo]

17. So are "real" Clinton supporters *unable*, or *unwilling* to root out the alleged "moles"?

Which is it, because I never see "Clinton supporters" speak out against other "Clinton supporters".

[Political Heretic]

72. Then you're not looking hard enough. And Obama has his own "supporters" too..

..so stones at glass houses and all. I don't see us effectively rooting out "supporters" either.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

18. Hear hear!

I know that most Clinton supporters are like the author of the OP. Just as most Obama supporters are truly for Obama, not in it to bash Clinton. A real Democrat is one who will support the nominee in November. That's the bottom line. "Supporters" for either Clinton or Obama aren't real Democrats.

[Tippy]

19. Very good post.......you should think about sending a copy to Ickes

"According to Ickes, the Clinton camp reserves the right to take their grievance to the Credentials Committee."

Ickes made an ass of himself yesterday...but he got his side, and the protesters behind Hillary. Now I listened to some of what the protesters had to say....They were saying much the same thing Hillary supporters on DU have said....Ickles who is a part of the Clinton Campaign, he is not just a poster on a discussion board. I believe he hurt Hillary badly when he said what he did and how he said it was part of it too so tell me what kind of a supporter is he?

[Window]

20. K/R.

:kick:

[PatGund]

23. Applaud

Very well done. I have no problem with Sen. Clinton's Supporters. I have every problem with her "Supporters"

[Triana]

24. Thank You Joanne98! Very well put. I KNOW that the majority of Clinton supporters are not...

..."supporters" (ie: rabid). But there's always a few for every candidate (yep Obama too - crazy folks and if I've been one of them I apologize!) - and the Republicans have more than their share of them! HA!.

I know it must feel terrible for Clinton supporters right now. I felt like that when Edwards dropped out ON MY BIRTHDAY. Ugh. But when the disappointment subsides, I hope they will join us in support of Obama.

:hug:

[Liberal Gramma]

25. Bravo!

Like you, I have nothing but respect for Clinton supporters who see her as the strongest candidate. I respect Obama supporters who see him as the strongest candidate. I am totally repulsed by any supporter who has to smear the other candidate and who revels in any dirt or lies they can find, but I think most of those will go back where they belong after the primaries.

[genna]

75. I don't think that it is an admirable quality that we would resort to dirt and lies to prove our poi

nts.

I think sticking to the facts are what is most important, but I believe in reciting ugly truths. I find sweet lies repugnant.

[Arkansas Granny]

26. Great read! K & R

From a Hillary supporter.

[Shae]

27. Nice. . .

To the Clinton supporters here: I appreciate the passion you have shown in supporting your candidate. You fought a good fight, and Ilook forward to fighting by your side to defeat John McCain.

To the Clinton "supporters" here: I look forward to seeing your tombstones.

[Utopian Leftist]

28. SO true!

All of these pseudo-"supporters" prove only one thing: that the militant feminist position of voting based above all else on genitalia only proves the old claim that hell hath no fury like a woman scorned!

In their blind rage they have become the stereotype that was always wrongly used against them. Look, I'm gay, I know a thing or two about oppression. Having a woman president would have also been helpful to the fight for gay rights because many of the negative traits associated with homosexuality are the same ones denigrated by sexists. But these Clinton "supporters" in their maniacal rages are nothing but destructive to the cause for which they fight.

And maybe the most ironic thing of all is that, had Hillary Clinton only conducted herself with half the grace and dignity that President Obama has, then she might have still had a shot at being on the ticket.

[iconicgnom]

29. THANKS for your post!

For telling it like it is
THANKS THANKS THANKS!

[Vinca]

30. Thank you for an interlude of sanity. nt

[Marrah_G]

31. Great post- thank you very much

I agree with your post and I am also a supporter.

[OzarkDem]

32. "Embraced Larry Sinclair?"

That's not a Clinton supporter, that's a discredited troll.

[Tatiana]

33. K&R. Thank you for this. n/t

[JerseygirlCT]

34. Yup. That's a good read.

And I hope that last sentence is right on!

[RichardRay]

35. Good perspective, and it goes both ways...

There are some 'supporters' of Senator Obama around who do very little to support his candidacy or his ideals. Their misbehavior makes it more difficult to achieve an already daunting task.

May be supporters of both candidates could get the 'supporters' to go into a room armed with hand grenades and see who wins the battle?

[mcg]

36. "Operation Chaos" at work,

I think many of these "supporters" are GOP operatives claiming to support Clinton or Obama and all you hear from them is negative crap, nothing positive. We're being played while Rush and Rove are laughing. Let's have the last laugh.

[Mme. Defarge]

37. Merci ma chère!

People of good will can disagree, and in good faith work together to find common ground.

[TragedyandHope]

38. K&R a must read

Error: You've already recommended that thread.

:kick:

[newmajority]

40. The article should have been titled "Clinton Supporters vs Hillbots"

Aside from that the author did a great job explaining the difference between the two.

[D23MIURG23]

41. K&R

[grantcart]

42. I am a "supporter" of all Clinton supporters

[Rockholm]

56. Wonderful post

[Asgaya Dihi]

43. Great post

It's easy to forget that sometimes, but so important not to forget it.

[John K]

44. Finally, we are getting our equilibrium back.

American First, Democrat Second and Supporter Third!!!

[genna]

76. God first.

[liberalcanuck]

79. I think John K had it right the first time. nt

[Blue_Tires]

45. very true

thanks for posting this....and hopefully the banning of the "supporters" comes sooner rather than later...

[blondie58]

46. great [points, Joanne98!

i want to thank you for keeping it rational and stating everything so succinctly. Yep, that sums it up completely. There are Hillary supporters and there are Hillary "supporters". I question whether the Hillary "supporters" are true Democrats.

Thank you so much! This gives me hope for November. We have much healing to do.

[DerekJ]

47. :) A beauty... Thanks

[madmom]

48. Thank you for saying something that needed to be said

[anigbrowl]

49. Very good and worth reprinting

I have no problem at all with someone who really believes Hillary was the better choice. I disagree, but that's how things go. But there's a huge difference between a genuine Clinton supporter and an Obama hater.

[quantass]

50. the F---?!? This was actually quite sincere! Great read!

[KSinTX]

52. Hi AngryMouse!

Not often I get to or wish to rec someone on two sites (dK) but I'm happy to do it for this message.

[McCamy Taylor]

53. I like this. Can we make "supporters" official at DU?

[hardtoport]

59. Yes we can

I, too, have been a " supporter " at times. Not anymore. I'm hurling everything I've got at John McLame. Fellow Democrats are off limits.

One of the posts at myDD talked of pushing the agenda of women's rights under a new Democratic administration. I'm all for that. We should also be working to restore the Civil Rights division in the DOJ. We should be fighting to keep same sex marriage legal in California and make it legal in all 50 states. We should be pushing those core values of the Democratic party harder than ever. After the last eight years, I think the American people are ready for what we're offering more than ever.

I remember how proud I was to be a Democrat when I looked at the diversity on the stage at Democratic debates and knew I belonged to the party that truly represents the American people.

We are the party of the first female Speaker of the House of Representatives. We are the party of openly gay Congressmembers like Barney Frank and Tammy Baldwin. We have the only declared atheist in Congress. This party will field more Latino candidates for President like Bill Richardson and will continue to send Muslims like Keith Ellison to Congress.

If we all work together, we'll be the party that sends a black man and a woman to the White House for the first time.

[genna]

77. what hardtoport said

The only qualifier I would add is how we "push" our social and cultural values.


The biggest problem we have as a country is talking about the 'other' we don't like. I think America is learning to live with difference so long as no one dares talk about that difference.

When we push our agenda, I'd suggest we'd keep that in mind. When America has to accept the blacks (which I am one), the gays (for whom I respect more than to push that don't ask don't tell crap on all of us), and gender police (equality above all else); let it be a reality first before we talk about it or allow Republicans to force us to talk about it on Republican terms.

The reason why it is negative is because Republicans have us talking about it on their frame. We win the argument when set the frame and chart the agenda.

[Bread and Circus]

54. Wow....sanity....it's refreshing.

[AZBlue]

55. That's a great post!

Clinton supporters I respect.
Clinton "supporters" I detest (I know I should counter hate with hate, but it's so hard not to).

[CaptJasHook]

57. Read it this morning. Good stuff.

[The Doctor.]

58. Yes, I still like Hillary Clinton despite her flaws...

but as far as candidates go, I like Obama more.

From one supporter to another; The Dems had great candidates this cycle... all of them, even Gravel would have been too much for McCain. Hillary Clinton is a force to be recconed with, but even though she'd have made an excellent executive and CiC, she slipped and fell...

And now the one who can bring about great changes stands to wreck all the Republican races this year.

It's a beautiful thing.


From one supporter to the "supporters"... it's over, you can go join whatever fringe you want now and watch as the man you hate, for no other reason than perhaps he is not Hillary Clinton, or perhaps merely because he's a man, or black(ish), or went to Harvard, or ate off of food stamps, or brushed off the stupid debate questions, or whatever inventions you've created in your twisted little minds, goes on to not only become the Leader of the Free World, but begins to heal all wounds caused by the last 8 years of neo-con bullshit. If you don't like that, then you can join the Bush-bots in the toilet-bowl of history.

I hope I've made myself clear.

[egarcia76]

60. Rec

Thank you, Joanne98. Great read. I've wrestled with the thought of voting for Obama in Nov. but have come to the conclusion that ultimately I am a Democrat. Even if my preferred candidate is not on the ballot, electing a Dem is still the better alternative to McCain.

[CadenBlaker]

61. Now this is a picture of sanity.

This is how a true passionate supporter of ANYONE should be. Sane, practical, and not a KYLE.

[Gman]

62. Obama had sexual and drug use encounters? I had no idea

Obama was covering it up real well.

[Catherina]

63. Excellent post! Wholeheartedly recommended n/t

[amb123]

64. A toast to a REAL Democrat.

:toast:

We need to keep Clinton Supporters in the Party.

We need to expel Clinton "Supporters" from the Party.

[DesertRat]

65. Great post! k&r

[Hope And Change]

67. K & R!

:kick:

[SleeplessinSoCal]

68. Thank you. I may sleep a bit better tonight for having read your post.

[shaniqua6392]

69. Awesome post!!!!!

Thank you so much.

[izzybeans]

70. One of the best analyses I've seen yet.

[Political Heretic]

71. Fantastic post. I have nothing but respect for Clinton *supporters!*

[TexasLady]

73. Thanks for the post

K and R

[Starbucks Anarchist]

80. Hillary supporters are fine with me, but "supporters" are not.

Glad to see the distinction.

[eagertolearn]

81. This helps me to realize something...

I'm glad to hear your analysis that Hillary Clinton has two groups of people that adore her and support her. Like you said the intelligent ones who really like her experience and how she stands with the issue's and then there is what I call "non thinkers" who are what you call her "supporters". I've noticed both Clinton's have been sort of "playing" with the minds of the "supporters" and they have been falling for it when they started to lose ground. I'm glad to see that there are the supporters who just admire her for who she is (intelligence, experience) and probably not who she became while running for the presidency. I would vote for her in the GE if she were the candidate because I feel that part of what i don't like about her was brought on in part because she wants this job so bad. I guess I have never wanted something that bad so i don't know how I would act in the same position. Thanks for posting this!

[pipi_k]

82. Another level of supporter....

A person who prefers one candidate over another but, in the end, supports the entire Democratic Party, no matter which candidate is nominated.

Because that's what it's all about...

I would like to think that, had the circumstances been different, I would graciously concede "defeat" long before now and switch my allegiance to Hillary. Which, I'm pretty sure I could have done, like it or not...that's how important it is to me personally to see the White House swept clean of Republican rule come January.

At this point I'm thinking that the worst Democrat is infinitely better than the best Republican and would get my vote no matter who it was....

:)

[SusanaMontana41]

84. Thanks for posting, Joanne98.

You and Angry Mouse are my kind of Democrats!

I backed Edwards until he suspended his campaign, then decided on Obama. Rep. Wexler said it best Saturday: Let us unite!

Also sending good wishes to Sen. Kennedy. "The fight goes on, the cause endures, hope still lives, and the dream shall never die." We love you, Teddy!

[Auntie Bush]

86. Thanks for this post. I hope everyone reads it.

[Forkboy]

87. I've seen this happen in every single election with every single candidate.

It's more noticeable the larger the candidate's base is, but it's always there to some degree. And every time the "supporters" drive themselves into irrelevancy. This time will be no different, and we'll move on without them.

[Trajan]

88. Hah ! ...... EXACTLY !

18 months of this BULLSHIT ! ....

Never cared much for 'mean people' .....

The 'supporters' have been a blight in DU ... Let's hope they fade away (though I know I cannot forget a few of the most vicious haters) ....

THANKS for this .....