Tell me again how Hillary is ahead in the popular vote

[rhiannon55]

I heard Ickes repeat this again on MTP, and I don't get it. Almost everyone I know is an Obama supporter. At least in my fairly wide circle of friends, Hillary supporters are definitely in the minority.

How do those numbers work? Are they counting the Operation Chaos faux supporters? :shrug:

[WeDidIt]

1. They count MI and FL but leave out teh Caucus states n/t

[rhiannon55]

2. Oh. That's convenient for them.

I'm from a caucus state. 80 percent of my precinct was for Obama. I was in that crowd. The Hillary group was tiny.

[RazBerryBeret]

6. I think you caucus states are getting

ripped (by the clinton campaign). You should cry about disenfranchisement...

what I don't understand is how a 2 term senator who has been through this primary process TWICE w/her husband can have the nerve to complain about it NOW. If she thought it was a problem, why didn't she do something about it? Election reform is a worthy cause--she could have done something about it as a senator. NO ONE asks her that question.

[Jersey Devil]

4. and give Obama 0 popular votes in MI (nt)

[MonkeyFunk]

9. How many votes did he get in Michigan?

:shrug:

[MattBaggins]

17. How about

We subtract the "not for Hillary" votes from the "for Hillary' votes then and give her what's left?

[MonkeyFunk]

45. OK

then we have to subtract all the votes "not for Obama" from his total, too, which puts him in the red.

[dansolo]

23. They also give no votes to Obama in MI

They claim only works if Obama gets 0 votes from MI, and the caucus states are ignored.

[Name removed]

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[helderheid]

3. She is if you count only the votes for her. DUH.

[rock]

30. But he leads

if you divine the votes.

[helderheid]

33. How does one do that?

:P

[rock]

35. Ask the DNC

They're the ones that did just that.

[helderheid]

43. The DNC divines?

[Patsy Stone]

5. No one ever asks them that question.

No one ever asks them how leaving your name on the ballot was compliant with not participating. It's either laziness on the MSM's part, or just stupidity, but it kills me every time.

[mikekohr]

7. FUZZY MATH nt

mike kohr

[mikekohr]

21. Here's the Link To The Truth

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

Obama leads in POPULAR votes, caucus won, primaries won, all of which don't matter, and leads in delegates, which do.

On Wenesday, 6/4/2008 Senator Obama will have over 2118 delegates, which is the number needed to clinch the nomination. It's over.

mike kohr

[Debi]

8. She's using the 'one for you two for me' counting scale

Oh, and caucuses don't count....nor do small red states.....or states that don't have an R in their names except for the states Hillary won.....and, well, you get it I'm sure :crazy:

[Name removed]

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[TexasObserver]

10. You have to count Michigan & Florida, not count any for caucus states,

and not give Obama any votes for Michigan.

Even then, he's still ahead, but you know that crazy woman can't fucking do math!!

[Name removed]

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[RooferDem]

11. *inhales*

If you tally all of the votes cast in democratic primaries this year but discount 4 caucus states that don't report popular vote totals and make no allowance for them even based on the margin of victory for Obama and if you count the beauty contest primary in Florida at 100% and if you count Michigan in full giving Clinton her full popular vote totals but giving Obama 0 popular votes and if you assume that Puerto Rico turns out en masse today and gives Clinton a 30 point win and if Clinton doesn't give a bunch of that back on Tuesday, then ...

Its really close.

[JerseygirlCT]

37. LOL. There you have it. In one breath, even. nt

[HCE SuiGeneris]

44. Nice one!

:rofl:

[rocktivity]

12. Also, he's including Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Samoa, and Gaum

which they shouldn't because they won't be voting in the GE. Texas had a primary AND a caucus. And since four of the caucus states never even released their vote totals, we have no idea what the popular vote total really is anyhow.

Even if all fifty states had open primaries and divided their delegates the same way, the argument still wouldn't be valid because primaries and caucuses are not about the majority of the popular vote, but the majority of the delegates those popular votes generate.

:eyes:
rocknation

[MattBaggins]

13. In a nutshell

Count 100% of Hillary's votes.
Count 98% of Obama's votes.

Hillary has the popular vote.

[Vinca]

14. Let me check in with NASA and see if the exploration of Mars

has turned up any Clinton voters. If 4 caucus states don't take a popular vote, it is impossible to get an accurate accounting. This is a talking point aimed at the now famous, poorly educated, Clinton voters.

[pansypoo53219]

15. sounds like FUZZY MATH

is that how she wants to win? like georgee did?

[Liberal Veteran]

16. Popular vote in the primaries is the political equivalent of unicorns and the tooth fairy.

It's a myth to make children happy.

[papapi]

18. You are mistaken. Hillary now leads in the UNPOPULAR vote.

[Windy]

19. And they completely discount the caucaus states where a majority of people going for a candidate

equals one caucus win...

How many people make up a single caucus win? who knows, but its more than one per vote!

[Hamlette]

20. they only count the contests since March. Rendell just repeated the Ikes argument. "Last 3 months"

"In the last 3 months, as the nation has gotten to know these candidates better, Clinton has clobbered Obama."

That's the "math" they are using.

Now, they might fool SOME of the ppl with that argument but they the ones they have to fool are super delegates and I'm hoping they are smarter than that.

[Stop Cornyn]

22. Simple: if you count the votes of her supporters and not the votes of those who don't support her,

she's WAY ahead!

[Yossariant]

24. Ickes said that Hillary Clinton leads in the popular vote because more voters

voted for her than for any other candidate, Democrat or Republican, including Barack Obama.

The MAJORITY of voters voted for her.

It ain't rocket science.

17,652,848 is the biggest number in the popular vote count --- no matter how you slice it, parse it, twist it or spin, spin, spin.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

[rhiannon55]

29. There's still the question about the faux supporters

We have all heard the rightwing buzz about that strategy. How many Hillary supporters will actually vote for McCain in the GE? More than a few, I'll bet. Guess we can't know that yet, if ever.

Well, it's Sunday morning. Gotta go dance for peace. This is an interesting conversation. I'll check in when I get back.

[Name removed]

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[BklynChick]

31. yes she counts MI, FL counts on a landslide in PR (which is looking unlikely) and doesn't count

caucus states. Unlike her usual sunday morning surrogates doing the popular vote talk, Ickes did not look very passionate about it.

[LTR]

32. By only counting the states she won

Like West Virginia.

[kevinbgoode]

34. I thought she was including all the votes in Republican primaries

since they were assuming all of the Republicans wanted her too.

[JerseygirlCT]

36. The caucus states don't count in the "popular vote" number they

use. They also count both FL and MI when they're calculating this number.

So yeah, if you discount a whole bunch of states because they use a caucus, not a primary, AND you count all your votes in FL and MI, then you might be able to make a claim like that. It's specious, but they don't care.

[DainBramaged]

38. Really old people??

:shrug:

[zulchzulu]

39. Saying HRC is winning the popular vote is like saying a baseball team behind 3 runs is winning

There is absolutely no proof to say she is winning the popular vote, especially since the "calculations" take away the votes made in caucus states. Those are in the millions.

Including the votes in Michigan and Florida, which were both flawed, is like claiming that a foul ball equals a hit in baseball.

It is merely LYING AND CHEATING when you say she is winning the popular vote. It is pure deception, no different than Bush making shit up about WMD in Iraq. It's exactly the same tactic.

What's truly amazing is how no one is calling Ickes, McAullife and Wolfson on the LIE. So much for journalism... :puke:

[slinkerwink]

40. She 's not in the popular vote lead anymore. Michigan's results don't count

because of the new delegate allocation, which wasn't based on the popular vote. They said the popular vote in MI doesn't count.

[Mass]

41. Including MI and ignoring Edwards's voters and uncommitted and write in in MI

Hillary is NOT winning the popular vote. A majority of people have actually voted AGAINST her.

[ileus]

42. more peeps have voted for her???